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Woolie_Wool
Facets of Predictability

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:56 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:30 am 
 

Financially I'm not sure there was any other choice. You just couldn't sell that kind of music in the early '90s. The history of the era has made me really, really bitter about what happened to USPM.
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e_ddi_e
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:00 am
Posts: 614
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:34 am 
 

Chalice of Blood is one of the best thrash songs ever made.

"I'm Russel - I sing"


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Temple Of Blood
Old Man Yells at Cloud

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:16 am
Posts: 3118
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:20 pm 
 

Temple Of Blood wrote:
Narcotic Greed - Fatal


Just wanted to say if anyone wants to pick up a copy of this cd that it just got reissued by dive bomb records this week. Before it was only available for outrageous prices on ebay. I've been listening to it this week and the remastering sounds great.

http://tribunalrecords.bigcartel.com/pr ... xe-edition
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Spiner202
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Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 3:32 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 10:35 am 
 

I relistened to both of the first two albums consecutively yesterday. I'm still very surprised that Twisted Into Form is considered superior. It's a good album, but not a great one compared to Forbidden Evil. I've spent most of the last couple weeks listening to various thrash albums from the 80s/early 90s, and Forbidden Evil stands up against almost anything I've put on, whereas Twisted Into Form isn't quite as classic for me.

In terms of similar stuff, I also put on Realm's Endless War last night and that also holds up really well. Wild vocals and great melodies all around. It doesn't feel quite as technical or precise as Forbidden is, but it's definitely a complementary band to listen to.

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Dungeon_Vic
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:00 am
Posts: 1576
Location: Greece
PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 11:25 am 
 

Re: Forbidden Evil vs Twisted into Form

It is NOT considered superior by any consensus whatsover. I think everyone here is just re-iterating what they've seen from close circles or judging from themselves. The albums are both stellar and both have huge fans and usually most people love both albums. I've talked to a lot of Forbidden fans over the years and there definitely isn't any prevailing view in favour of any of the two. If anything, it is Forbidden Evil that is ahead but not by much.

I'll say it again, these two albums are among the FINEST of the genre, easy.
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Temple Of Blood
Old Man Yells at Cloud

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:16 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 11:34 pm 
 

Spiner202 wrote:
I relistened to both of the first two albums consecutively yesterday. I'm still very surprised that Twisted Into Form is considered superior.


That's the impression I get from most forbidden fans.


My guess why tif is more popular:

1. They shot a music video from one of its songs so it probably got a lot more exposure and sold many more units
2. It has a cleaner, more pristine, less raw production quality
3. Calvert's soloing style is more "shreddy" with a lot of sweep arpeggios while alvelais was a bit more into legato.

Quote:
In terms of similar stuff, I also put on Realm's Endless War last night and that also holds up really well. Wild vocals and great melodies all around. It doesn't feel quite as technical or precise as Forbidden is, but it's definitely a complementary band to listen to.


I really like "endless war" but not as much as toxic (who they usually get compared to) or forbidden. Now "suiciety" ... that's an album I can't get into at all. Some people say it is their best one but I don't like a single song or riff from it. I can see why they would get dropped after delivering that one to their label. It's funny that with every band under the sun reuniting in some forms that realm never has. Time is running out!
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Temple Of Blood
Old Man Yells at Cloud

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:16 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 11:43 pm 
 

Woolie_Wool wrote:
Financially I'm not sure there was any other choice. You just couldn't sell that kind of music in the early '90s. The history of the era has made me really, really bitter about what happened to USPM.


I'm sure they all felt trapped and didn't need to be told by a record company exec to change their style to try to start making a living off of music. I think pretty much all those 80s bands were living with mom and dad or relying on their working wife/ girlfriend to support their musical endeavors. After years I'm sure they feel pressure within and without to fish or cut bait and start to make a profit from this thing. They can look around and see who the profitable comparable bands are. I think Calvert looked to queensryche and loccicero looked to pantera.

If they would've looked at the situation differently and treated the band as a hobby instead then they wouldn't have needed to change their style with the times and could've stuck with that tif style as long as they'd like.
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Temple Of Blood
Old Man Yells at Cloud

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:16 am
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 12:10 am 
 

Dungeon_Vic wrote:
I've figured that out a long time ago! :) We definitely share tastes regarding the stuff surrounding the Nosferatu beauty (from US power to tech thrash to *thrash* and all in between), good guitarwork and good singers and exciting songwriting. Yeah, haha, that's the epicentre of my tastes.


Absolutely! I just realized you are vic from thrash unlimited. Cool!

Quote:
But I like a lot of shit, I'm sure you'd hate quite a few of the stuff I like :P


I enjoy a lot of stuff that I know is crappy too but I'm just a sucker for some styles.

Quote:
No Loomis, no Nevermore. I really like Nevermore, I am not sure if I can muster Nevermore without Van Williams (excellent, excellent drummer).


I just can't blame Dane if he wants to keep rolling with the nevermore name the way other popular metal bands kept going without their lead singers. With Calvert writing songs and a comparable loomis-like shredder on second guitar I think it could work really well. I haven't enjoyed their oost-dreaming neon black material anyway. It would be awesome if van came back because he is an amazing drummer. The drummer before him was excellent too, who played on some of their debut album. He played with Danes solo band lately so I could see him at least coming back.

Quote:
Woah. Gene Hoglan is in my top 3 and his status goes well beyond Dark Angel (Death above all and SYL at the very least). Apart from having one of the most lethal, badass, lively thrash drumming performances ever (I'm talking about DD of course). Bostaph is always class and there's never something you can say against his playing but I don't see how his performance on Repentless is that remarkable. Haven't listened to the album much but it didn't change my opinion. Slayer needs Lombardo, they just sound less Slayer, lesser Slayer, half the awe is gone man!. It's not you Paul, it's just Dave!


I think bostaph is just amazing in slayer. Hogan to me hasn't played anything really interesting or impressive in over a decade. I really think if he's going to let bostaph show him up this badly then he shouldn't bother recording a dark angel reunion album. Just leave people their memories of how great things were.

Hogan used to be my favorite but he sounds like any old Joe in testament.
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traxan
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:52 pm
Posts: 1434
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:50 pm 
 

I think Hanemann's death was worse for Slayer than Dave's departure.

Hoglan should be playing better now that he dropped all that weight. He's been with Testament a long time, maybe he needs a change of scenery to revitalize him. That would clear the path for Lombardo to return.

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Spiner202
Veteran

Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 3:32 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:57 pm 
 

Temple Of Blood wrote:
Spiner202 wrote:
In terms of similar stuff, I also put on Realm's Endless War last night and that also holds up really well. Wild vocals and great melodies all around. It doesn't feel quite as technical or precise as Forbidden is, but it's definitely a complementary band to listen to.


I really like "endless war" but not as much as toxic (who they usually get compared to) or forbidden. Now "suiciety" ... that's an album I can't get into at all. Some people say it is their best one but I don't like a single song or riff from it. I can see why they would get dropped after delivering that one to their label. It's funny that with every band under the sun reuniting in some forms that realm never has. Time is running out!

I also revisited Toxik's World Circus the other day (my favourite of their two records), and while it's a good album, I would definitely take Realm over them. World Circus has "Pain And Misery", which I'm not a big fan of, I find the songs to be generally less memorable than Endless War.

I still need to track down a copy of Suiciety, but I haven't heard as much praise for it in general as Endless War gets.

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Dungeon_Vic
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:00 am
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:28 pm 
 

Suiciety is great. I am still not sure if Endless War is the clear winner. It certainly isn't the instant hook album but it is not like it is a complicated mess either. And the vocals and the guitars man, really good work. Technical power/thrash of the US school with lots of class.

The Brainchild

Overall I prefer Toxik though, both albums. But Toxik is REALLY special in my book. I am a huge Josh Christian fanboy, one of my favorite people to air guitar too! :P
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HamburgerBoy
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:40 am
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 7:47 pm 
 

Everything about Twisted Into Form sounds like a massive step up from the first one. No more goofy choruses, songwriting more ambitious, better singing, better production, etc. I guess the Through the Eyes of Glass solo might be better than any on Twisted Into Form though.

The things that hold back Suiciety are imo...

1. Pretty boring drumming on an otherwise techier/proggier album
2. Not nearly as diverse as Endless War; while that one runs from speed to thrash to USPM to trad doom, most of the songs on Suiciety are in the same style
3. It's more serious and doesn't have the fun energy of songs like Slay the Oppressor or the Eleanor Rigby cover

I still really enjoy the album despite that, and it has a few excellent songs (The Brainchild indeed being a clear standout). Either album sounds way more interesting to me than World Circus, which doesn't do much for me outside of the lead guitar.

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MyrVarg
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 4:45 pm
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Location: Minnesota
PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:44 am 
 

Definitely one of my favorite thrash bands. I only have Forbidden Evil, Twisted into Form and Green (just bought it as a guilty pleasure for the groove and it's rare to find in physical form so why not?!). I'm thinking about getting Distortion just to complete owning all the old albums but is it worth tracking down since it too is kind of rare?
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flexodus
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 4:16 am
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:08 am 
 

I've always been of the opinion that Rob Flynn wrote all the good Forbidden songs. He wrote 2 of the big 3 (you know em) but apparently not "Through Eyes of Glass" like I originally thought. Also wrote "As Good as Dead" which is merely decent. On the whole their debut is hilariously bad at times. Some nonsensical riffage but a lot of it is just due to Russ being an incredibly awkward singer. Lots of annoying vocal lines, some of his transitions to high pitching screaming are iffy, weird lyrics with the vocals way too up front and apparent. However, it's entirely possible that most of my bad memories of this album is just due to 'Off the Edge" being SO BAD and being right up front in the first half of the album. Can't remember how "March into Fire" and "Feel No Pain" are, but "Follow Me" definitely picks up the quality a bit. Basically, I would have much fonder memories of this band if their debut was just the live EP with the good songs and the Priest cover, haha.

I didn't remember Twisted into Form fondly either, but listening to it again right now and it's definitely a huge improvement over the debut. Russ is waaay improved, much more reigned in and convincingly menacing. no WTF moments found here so far. The riffage is also much tighter and consistent, and more engaging throughout the songs. Never heard any of their 90s demos but I'll check them out now.

I saw Forbidden about 5ish years ago in Oakland for this Paul Baloff deathiverssary tribute type show. Lots of great bay area legends played: I enjoyed Heathen, Possessed and Exodus much more (duh). Forbidden played their 3 good songs though so I was definitely stoked. Tried to start a conversation with Russ after their set but he blew me off with the quickness.

At the end of the day, Laaz Rockit and Vio-lence are my go to late 80s bay area thrash fix... Sadus, even Testament got more plays from me.
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~Guest 98976
Metal Pounder

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:08 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:43 am 
 

I don't remember "Off The Edge" being any worse than any number of Anthrax songs post-Fistful Of Metal, or worse than OverKill's "Fatal If Swallowed" or "PowerSurge".

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Spiner202
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:04 am 
 

FasterDisaster wrote:
I don't remember "Off The Edge" being any worse than any number of Anthrax songs post-Fistful Of Metal, or worse than OverKill's "Fatal If Swallowed" or "PowerSurge".

"Off The Edge" is a bit silly, but those two Overkill songs are absolutely classic. Two of my favourites for sure.

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SkullFracturingNightmare
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:05 pm 
 

Yeah those Overkill songs (well, Powersurge since I can't remember Fatal if Swallowed off the top of my head) are way better than Off the Edge.

As for Anthrax, I'd take all of Among the Living over Off the Edge. Anything else by Anthrax, then sure I'll give you that.
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IntenseHatred
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:47 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:17 pm 
 

Twisted into Form is an AMAZING album. Some good headbanging music. Although I am a huge fan of Dave's playing with Slayer, when I heard Paul was going to Slayer I was completely blown away. He is an amazing drummer. I love that "attack" style of drums.
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Woolie_Wool
Facets of Predictability

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:56 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:37 pm 
 

Temple Of Blood wrote:
Woolie_Wool wrote:
Financially I'm not sure there was any other choice. You just couldn't sell that kind of music in the early '90s. The history of the era has made me really, really bitter about what happened to USPM.


I'm sure they all felt trapped and didn't need to be told by a record company exec to change their style to try to start making a living off of music. I think pretty much all those 80s bands were living with mom and dad or relying on their working wife/ girlfriend to support their musical endeavors. After years I'm sure they feel pressure within and without to fish or cut bait and start to make a profit from this thing. They can look around and see who the profitable comparable bands are. I think Calvert looked to queensryche and loccicero looked to pantera.

If they would've looked at the situation differently and treated the band as a hobby instead then they wouldn't have needed to change their style with the times and could've stuck with that tif style as long as they'd like.

The record company execs wouldn't tell them anything, they would chuck their demo tape in the garbage and not even bother writing them back. A shame, but that's the '90s for you.

Temple Of Blood wrote:
I really like "endless war" but not as much as toxic (who they usually get compared to) or forbidden. Now "suiciety" ... that's an album I can't get into at all. Some people say it is their best one but I don't like a single song or riff from it. I can see why they would get dropped after delivering that one to their label. It's funny that with every band under the sun reuniting in some forms that realm never has. Time is running out!

My reissue of Suiciety has liner notes where they basically admit that the songs on that album are far beyond their abilities as musicians today. They probably tried already, but their legacy was built on a ludicrously difficult album to play and they can't get to that level anymore. Some of the shit they pull off on that album is just astonishing.

HamburgerBoy wrote:
3. It's more serious and doesn't have the fun energy of songs like Slay the Oppressor or the Eleanor Rigby cover

That is the worst rock cover I've ever heard in heavy metal (second worst being Flotsam and Jetsam butchering "Saturday Night's Alright for Fighting"). What the fuck were they thinking? Why would you cover that song at all?

Dungeon_Vic wrote:
Overall I prefer Toxik though, both albums. But Toxik is REALLY special in my book. I am a huge Josh Christian fanboy, one of my favorite people to air guitar too! :P

Their new demo is a bomb though. Crushingly disappointing.
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Dungeon_Vic
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:04 am 
 

Nope, I love the new songs. Can't wait for the new album.
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TheMizwaOfMuzzyTah
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:27 pm 
 

No contest re: debut vs. Twisted. Twisted is way better. I hardly ever listen to any Forbidden except Twisted. That's a good one.

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Temple Of Blood
Old Man Yells at Cloud

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:16 am
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:43 pm 
 

OK, my wife and I had a baby a couple of weeks ago and now I finally have some free time to discuss some more FORBIDDEN!!!!!!

Oxenkiller wrote:
I've been into them since their demo days (back when they were still called Forbidden EVIL.) I loved them then and...honestly I haven't really kept up with what they've done since.


Wow! You're the first person I have seen on the net that followed them at that point.

I recently bought this CD (bootleg? official release?):

Image

It contains some obscure live recordings from that period and a Rob Flynn-penned "Mercyful Fate rip off" track called "Egypt has Fallen" that I've been wanting to hear for a long time:

It's an interesting CD but I wonder how legit it is. The interview with Craig is great in the booklet but it is just a reprint of the one he did in Snakepit magazine and I wonder if they even got permission to reprint it.

It's awesome to see/hear some more documentation from this era of the band's history though.

One of the best things that was documented here: Russ's old 'stache. :)

Image

Quote:
But they had a way of totally blowing away other bands they played with live- for instance you'd go see them open for Testament, they'd sound better than Testament, or they'd open for Death Angel, and Death Angel would be good but...everyone would remember Forbidden. Russ's vocals were one of the highlights of that band. You wouldn't hear too many thrash bands do that type of vocals as well. (and "Interesting" vocals do not necessarily equal "Good" vocals, e.g. Sean Killian of Violence, who is interesting but, well at least he still doesn't ruin that band.) Plus the rest of the band- Bostoph, Locicero, and Calvert (and Alverlais before him) were all excellent as well.


Great to hear! Based on the bootlegs I have, they could definitely at least hold their own in those days.

Quote:
I loved their "March into Fire" demo- the songs sounded crisper, more energetic and overall better. They were one of those bands whose studio work tended to water down the sound a bit too much.


To me, "Twisted into Form" is a bit too sterile/clean sounding. Not a huge issue, just not my production preference.

Quote:
I probably should check out the newer stuff but, the reviews haven't been exactly glowing.


To me they are for hardcore fans mostly, which is fine for me because I am one.
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Temple Of Blood
Old Man Yells at Cloud

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:16 am
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:46 pm 
 

TheMizwaOfMuzzyTah wrote:
No contest re: debut vs. Twisted. Twisted is way better.


Can you say some more here? What makes you say that?

Do you like any songs from the debut?
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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:01 pm 
 

metroplex wrote:
for some reason he always sounds out of tune.


That's funny, I've never felt like he was out of key.

I know that these thrash bands used to play all over the neck and do a lot of crazy scales/key changes that were near impossible to sing over though. I think this is the big problem with a lot of post-"Spreading" Anthrax music is that the riffs got a lot more chromatic and the vocals had trouble finding a key in all the (sometimes somewhat random) patterns.

It's not like Joey or Russ couldn't sing though. Give them a normal old school metal song in a standard key and they could knock it out of the park. But the guitarists didn't change keys in a way that flowed smoothly and it makes melodic singing over that stuff tough. Probably one of the reasons so few bands even try!
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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:08 pm 
 

FatTheGates wrote:
I'm probably in a strong minority here, but absolutely love their 1992 demo. They never released any of those songs officially (despite repeated pressure on Craig) and some say it's too commercial, but I love all three of those songs. I think that might be Russ' best vocal performance overall.


No way man, a few other folks around here besides me love that stuff too! Craig made a serious misstep by not giving any of those songs their due on Distortion. Calvert is a very talented songwriter and it only emphasizes even more one of the things that set them apart from other thrash/heavy bands at the time ... a singer who could really sing!

Quote:
I didn't love the "Omega Wave" record either. Heathen had a much better comeback record, IMO.


I need to go back and revisit that one. I didn't like it much at the time but that was years ago. I've never really liked HEATHEN except a song or two here and there but they have all those trademarks that I usually like in bands. Funny that their singer was almost in TOXIK at one point.
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Temple Of Blood
Old Man Yells at Cloud

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:14 pm 
 

Woolie_Wool wrote:
Nolan_B wrote:
Would've been a much better band if they had an interesting vocalist. This is a common problem with lots of thrash bands from that late 80's era and of this caliber.

What? Russ Anderson was the coolest thing about them. He could do the furious drill sergeant barking and power metal singing with equal facility...too bad they were afraid of being "like Queensryche" because a USPM album by them would have been amazing to behold. Goddamnit, there are so many "could have been" USPM demos and projects it's infuriating. So much potential wasted because the scene just plain ran out of time and became collateral damage in the backlash against hair metal.

Dungeon_Vic wrote:
So Dark (On the other Side) (the ballad, QR song) I'd love if they used it on an album and fuck the tough kiddies. It's great.

Holy shit! :drool:


Mr. Wool, you REALLY need to listen to those pre-Distortion demos and Distortion too because that is their most melodic stuff. Some of it sounds like early Nevermore (not too surprising because Calvert wrote songs on "Dreaming Neon Black" too).
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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:17 pm 
 

HamburgerBoy wrote:
Twisted Into Form and the pre-Distortion demo material is peak Forbidden for me.


Why? Just because of the vocal performance?

You don't like aggressive thrash like Vio-lence, Overkill, Testament, Exodus ... bands they were more similar to on the debut?

Quote:
I think the Trapped demo is really the best thing they ever did and all of my favorite Forbidden songs come from it


Really? Not even "Through Eyes of Glass"? Come on, that's top-tier melodic thrash there.

Quote:
just a shame they couldn't keep that kind of sound going rather than jumping onto a more aggro groove bandwagon by the time Distortion finally came out.


It was the 90s ... the decade of desperate mistakes.
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Temple Of Blood
Old Man Yells at Cloud

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:19 pm 
 

Woolie_Wool wrote:
Financially I'm not sure there was any other choice. You just couldn't sell that kind of music in the early '90s. The history of the era has made me really, really bitter about what happened to USPM.


USPM died an even worse death. There was no trend for them to jump on to ... Soundgarden worship maybe? No band made it successfully.

At least thrash bands could try to ape Pantera and survive in some capacity. See Overkill.
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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:23 pm 
 

Spiner202 wrote:
I relistened to both of the first two albums consecutively yesterday. I'm still very surprised that Twisted Into Form is considered superior. It's a good album, but not a great one compared to Forbidden Evil. I've spent most of the last couple weeks listening to various thrash albums from the 80s/early 90s, and Forbidden Evil stands up against almost anything I've put on, whereas Twisted Into Form isn't quite as classic for me.


I couldn't agree more!

Quote:
In terms of similar stuff, I also put on Realm's Endless War last night and that also holds up really well. Wild vocals and great melodies all around. It doesn't feel quite as technical or precise as Forbidden is, but it's definitely a complementary band to listen to.


Yeah, I really like that one to. I don't think it is as good as Forbidden though. Guitar tone is too weak, riffs are more speed metal/progressive, and I don't think the vocalist is as good. But it's fun stuff, more comparable to the Toxik debut than Forbidden IMHO.

Did you ever hear their post-Realm band called White Fear Chain with the Last Crack vocalist? Is that worth hearing?
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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:59 pm 
 

traxan wrote:
I think Hanemann's death was worse for Slayer than Dave's departure.


Absolutely ... but mainly because Bostaph stepped up the plate in such a huge way.

If they had to soldier on with Hoglan, Dette, or one of those drummers they auditioned in the 2000s ... well, I don't think many would enjoy that too much.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:50 pm 
 

Spiner202 wrote:
World Circus has "Pain And Misery", which I'm not a big fan of


That one is definitely a bit corny. Because they slowed down perhaps and didn't rely on manic vocals, solos, and energy? They went too far out of their wheelhouse?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:33 pm 
 

Looking at the discography of Glen Alvelais now ... can anyone provide me a copy of any of these bolded recordings, digitally or otherwise? I'm happy to buy them.

Discography
1988: Forbidden - Forbidden Evil
1989: Forbidden - Raw Evil - Live At The Dynamo
1991: Bizarro - demo
1993: Testament - Return to the Apocalyptic City
1995: Damage - demo
1997: Testament - Demonic (one solo)
1998: Bizarro - demo #2
2000: LD/50 - Y2K demo
2003: LD/50 - demo II
2006: X-3 - "Fluoxetine" for Drum Nation 3 (Magna Carta)
2009: Tenet - Sovereign
2009: Defiance - The Prophecy
2010: LD/50 - LD/50 (demo)
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:11 pm 
 

Dungeon_Vic wrote:
Suiciety is great. I am still not sure if Endless War is the clear winner. It certainly isn't the instant hook album but it is not like it is a complicated mess either. And the vocals and the guitars man, really good work. Technical power/thrash of the US school with lots of class.

The Brainchild


I went back and listened to this again. As soon as it started playing, I remembered it, so that's saying something. This song overall doesn't grab me though, and man that production is so thin.

Quote:
Overall I prefer Toxik though, both albums. But Toxik is REALLY special in my book. I am a huge Josh Christian fanboy, one of my favorite people to air guitar too! :P


Absolutely! When I first heard that solo on "World Circus" I was hooked on this band. That's still one of my favorite all-time solos.

Vic, since you love TOXIK you really need to check out this band AZRAEL. Bobby Koelble from DEATH was on leads and he is easily one of the most amazing thrash/death metal guitarists ever. The vocalist is a really amazing melodic singer too, although not high-pitched like TOXIK and REALM.

Their demos just got remastered and rereleased on CD from Divebomb Records so you have no excuse not to pick it up!

http://tribunalrecords.bigcartel.com/pr ... -series-16
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:57 pm 
 

HamburgerBoy wrote:
Everything about Twisted Into Form sounds like a massive step up from the first one. No more goofy choruses


Now I love both those albums, but they still had some goofy choruses on Twisted.

"OUT OF ... Out of Body ... OUT OF MIND ... OUT OF ... Out of Body ... IN MY MIND"

To me, gang vocals that shout out partial phrases are really goofy and lazily written to fill a certain number of syllables, in addition to the above phrase bordering on Dio-esque meaninglessness.

I think "Infinite" and "Step by Step" have slightly goofy choruses too. The rest aren't bad.

Quote:
songwriting more ambitious, better singing,


I don't think the songwriting is really any more ambitious. Examples?

Quote:
better production, etc.


Like I said, the production style just depends on taste. They were moving towards that dry, scooped "And Justice For All" production and away from the early EXODUS production sound.

Quote:
I guess the Through the Eyes of Glass solo might be better than any on Twisted Into Form though.


Might be? Definitely is! And there are some solos on "Twisted" that are way goofier than anything on the debut. The first solo on the title track for example is really annoying.


Quote:
The things that hold back Suiciety are imo...

1. Pretty boring drumming on an otherwise techier/proggier album


Yeah, definitely.

Quote:
2. Not nearly as diverse as Endless War; while that one runs from speed to thrash to USPM to trad doom, most of the songs on Suiciety are in the same style


True. And even internal to each song there aren't many peaks and valleys. Or at least that was my impression.

Quote:
3. It's more serious and doesn't have the fun energy of songs like Slay the Oppressor or the Eleanor Rigby cover


I don't think seriousness is the problem. But those songs are a lot catchier to me than what I hear on Suiciety. Those are my favorite from the debut.

Quote:
Either album sounds way more interesting to me than World Circus, which doesn't do much for me outside of the lead guitar.


I like the whole thing but the lead guitar is the highlight. I think pretty much every song is great except "Pain and Misery" which is OK.
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SkullFracturingNightmare
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:37 pm 
 

You wanna talk about slightly goofy choruses and not bring up One Foot in Hell? Infinite and Step by Step are normal as shit compared to that.
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TimeDoesNotHeal
Metal newbie

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:32 pm 
 

I find it slightly funny that you guys criticize Twisted Into Form for having goofy choruses when Forbidden Evil has Off the Edge, which includes the possibly the goofiest chorus that the Bay Area scene ever produced.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:50 pm 
 

TimeDoesNotHeal wrote:
I find it slightly funny that you guys criticize Twisted Into Form for having goofy choruses when Forbidden Evil has Off the Edge, which includes the possibly the goofiest chorus that the Bay Area scene ever produced.


Dude, I am not saying it doesn't have a somewhat goofy chorus.

And I'm not saying I don't really enjoy those songs from both albums despite their somewhat goofy choruses.

I just disagree that they were completely gone by the time TiF came out, as Mr. hamburger claimed.

Side note: At least "Off the Edge" is catchy and somewhat clever.

"I'm near the edge ...
I'm on the edge ...
I'm off the edge ....
JUMP!"

and then "AHHHH!!!" at the end of the song.

Yeah, it's a bit cheesy, plus those lyrics about "Little Johnny" which is the most generic name of any person in a song. But I still think the song is CATCHY, and a lot of thrash songs just are not. Plus, this section from (3:41 to 4:00) rules in my book:



Love your username BTW. That album is a masterpiece!
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:51 pm 
 

SkullFracturingNightmare wrote:
You wanna talk about slightly goofy choruses and not bring up One Foot in Hell? Infinite and Step by Step are normal as shit compared to that.


Hmm, to me that one is not bad at all. Do you have a problem with the lyrics in the chorus or the way it is sung?

And Step by Step is not too bad. I think Infinite is the worst of the three.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:18 pm 
 

TheExodusAttack wrote:
I've always been of the opinion that Rob Flynn wrote all the good Forbidden songs. He wrote 2 of the big 3 (you know em) but apparently not "Through Eyes of Glass" like I originally thought. Also wrote "As Good as Dead" which is merely decent.


I think he brought a lot to the table, on this album and (IMHO although most would disagree) he improved the songwriting in VIO-LENCE with his contributions on "Oppressing the Masses".

Still, "Through Eyes of Glass" was all Craig (I think) and to me it is their finest hour. All the riffs work, the vocal melodies work, and the solo is next-level stuff. The lyrics don't really connect with me on a personal level though ... I guess they are about reincarnation? What does that have to do with having a glassy stare? We may never know.

Quote:
On the whole their debut is hilariously bad at times. Some nonsensical riffage but a lot of it is just due to Russ being an incredibly awkward singer. Lots of annoying vocal lines, some of his transitions to high pitching screaming are iffy, weird lyrics with the vocals way too up front and apparent.


That's really harsh. But if you hate bands like FLOTSAM AND JETSAM, METAL CHURCH, 80s ANTHRAX, etc. then you'd probably hate FORBIDDEN too. Some people just can't stand that singing style but it's my favorite.

Quote:
However, it's entirely possible that most of my bad memories of this album is just due to 'Off the Edge" being SO BAD and being right up front in the first half of the album.


Well, it is Track #2 so I can see how it could turn someone off quickly. If you're this much into the Bay Area thrash scene you gotta give it another spin. It's worth revisiting if you've forgotten how most of the songs go.

Quote:
The riffage is also much tighter and consistent, and more engaging throughout the songs.


I definitely don't feel this way. I think Flynn and Calvert wrote the best riffs by far although Craig had his moments.
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Diamhea
Eats and Spits Corpses

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:44 pm 
 

Twisted into Form > Forbidden Evil


A million-word rebuttal cannot and will not matter. A thrash lord has spoken.

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