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Resident_Hazard
Possessed by Starscream's Ghost

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:33 pm
Posts: 4011
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 11:53 pm 
 

Cracked has pretty regularly ripped into Trump.

Their latest run-down reminds me of this thread: http://www.cracked.com/blog/a-simple-timeline-all-trumprussia-news/
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iamntbatman
Chaos Breed

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 am
Posts: 11125
Location: Tyrn Gorthad
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 12:03 am 
 

Yeah, if we had Hillary in office we'd probably have collusion with Saudi Arabia, like selling them over a hundred billion dollars worth of arms. Oh...wait...

It honestly boggles my mind that the U.S. has continued to slob the knob of such a fucked up country as Saudi Arabia while perpetually demonizing Iran. I mean, that's all it boils down to, really: deciding to choose a side in the Saudi/Iranian Sunni/Shi'ite regional power struggle and going with the guys who are one of the hotbeds of anti-U.S. extremism and who have probably the worst human rights record in the whole region. Yeah, let's pick them.

I'm not saying we should be backing the Iranians instead, but man, the comparison is almost night and day. I have an Iranian friend I met here in Korea who was studying here, and he invited me to this Facebook group for people with logistical/travel questions about vacation/travel in Iran since I had expressed interest to my friend in visiting someday when it's a bit more feasible (it truly is a super gorgeous country and I've never in my life met an Iranian who wasn't almost comically friendly and hospitable). Anyway, I'm sure demographics in that group are skewed toward younger, more globally-oriented people, but if it's any kind of barometer of the mindset of young Iranians today, they're a pretty damn secular and progressive bunch. I see *regular* comments from Iranians rejecting the Muslim-ness of their country and the leadership, lots of people emphasizing the Persian and pre-Islam aspects of their culture over the Islamic and Arabic influence, etc. I mean, they just overwhelmingly voted for Rouhani to have a second term; he's still clearly a religious guy who rules with that mindset, but he's also definitely a moderate who is miles and miles better than his predecessor. The country is moving in the right direction, but the Saudis? Yeah...not so much.
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iamntbatman
Chaos Breed

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 am
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Location: Tyrn Gorthad
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 12:07 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:
You are basically using illegal immigrants as a scapegoat - crime is a more complex problem than that. Ridiculous to boil it down to "illegal immigrants" like getting rid of them would make everything okay all of a sudden. Plus it was never that bad before and all Trump is doing is deporting more people who committed extremely minor offenses and breaking up families for no reason. Fuck him.

Obama and Hillary never wanted to give full amnesty to illegal immigrants so much as just not be needlessly harsh and scapegoat them as evil rapists and killers like Trump does. Again, fuck him - you are wrong on this.



Also, even apart from the morality of it: Trump hasn't even been hard on immigration to anywhere near the degree he said he'd be. Where's the wall? Where're the massive deportations? Has he upped deportation numbers and kicked out dreamers and stuff? Yeah, but there's been no major action like he promised. In fact, his son-in-law's company is selling H1B visas to Chinese people, using the Kushner connections as advertising material. So how about that immigration reform?
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 26432
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 12:21 am 
 

I did hear about that visa thing.

Yeah he really hasn't done much except bully and intimidate sanctuary cities for a while which didn't go anywhere, and the aforementioned deportations of mostly innocent people. And he keeps talking about the wall, but it likely won't happen at all. Either because of growing antsiness about him in Congress or just because it will get shot down by judges like everything else he's tried.

We have criminals here we do nothing about, like the Stanford swimmer-rapist kid who got off with like no jail time at all. And people want to worry about illegal immigrants, what a fucking sick joke. Brainwashed fucking morons.
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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 4517
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 12:36 am 
 

Morrigan wrote:
darkeningday wrote:
Side note: Why do people keep saying "Russia." It's Putin. Russia is a nice country. Putin is a facist/authoritarian piece of shit. LEAVE RUSSIA ALONE!

The Russian people overwhelmingly support Putin.

Spoiler: show
Fuck Russia

About this again; I had a lengthy and involved conversation about this with my IRL Russian buddy today who is directly involved in political system (or at least what's left of it ) in Russia:

A Russian Person wrote:
Funny thing, all these reports saying 86% of people support putin?


Well, First: these reports are based on questions asked through phone, half of which are not even cell phone, but the stationary ones, and only very old people still have them, and only they have time for it.

Secondly: most people are really afraid to say they don't support putin.

Third: We have elections, putin only gets around 60% votes including heavy falsification, I mean HEAVY up to 20% of votes are faked. And many of the non fakes are the votes of army, or chechnya where people basically have no freedom who to vote for. Chechnya always has 100% people attending the elections, and 100% votes for putin
and we usually have only 50-60% population attending elections, because most people don't believe they can change anything.

yeah, majority supports putin, my ass.
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Grave_Wyrm
Metal Sloth

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:55 pm
Posts: 3853
Location: FML States of America
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 12:40 am 
 

t1337Dude wrote:
I appreciate the freedom that comes with minimizing the government ... I like his stance on illegal immigration.

You haven't been keeping up on how he's failing you, have you?

"Smaller government" is dogwhistle horseshit, by the way. The freedom you're imagining is not what you would get.
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ratedgdr
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:03 pm
Posts: 324
Location: Northeast Wisconsin
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 1:01 am 
 

Honestly, I say a curse on both houses. Both sides and their supporters are unpleasant and unreasonable towards each other, the GOP can't get away from Trump, at least not right away, even if they wanted to (remember how many times the Democrats used "Republicans = Bush" between 2006 and 2010?) and don't seem to be learning from the Democrats' own failings in Obama's first two years when they did stuff the American people, or a majority of them, didn't like, and the Democrats are less interested in trying to at least TRY to work together and are likely more interested in dragging Hilary out to lose again. So both parties can piss off, and I say this as someone who normally goes Republican but did write-ins for most of the candidates this past election, including President.

Oh, and hoping for Trump to be impeached is a bad idea since Pence is equally as unlikable, if not (shockingly) more so. The man believes in "conversion camps," for crying out loud. Sadly, there's not many in the GOP that I'd want to see try to knock him out in the primaries, and the one I do (Paul Ryan, since he's from my state) has made it clear he wants no part of the job. Can't exactly say I blame him, either.

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Subrick
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 1:03 am 
 

The thing about modern Republicans is that they chirp and chatter about small government this, small government that, but what they really want to do is increase the power and scope of the government, yet limit their own obligations to the people at the same time. This has been their mindset for decades at this point, but it really took hold during Dubya's reign as Lord Dipshit of America I (Trump is Lord Dipshit II). That's how we get stuff like gutting Medicare by $860 billion and transferring that money to the 1%, while still bombing the shit out of the Middle East and spying on American citizens through their fucking powered off laptop webcams.
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t1337Dude
Metalhead

Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 5:20 am
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Location: Seattle
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 1:21 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:
You are basically using illegal immigrants as a scapegoat - crime is a more complex problem than that. Ridiculous to boil it down to "illegal immigrants" like getting rid of them would make everything okay all of a sudden. Plus it was never that bad before and all Trump is doing is deporting more people who committed extremely minor offenses and breaking up families for no reason. Fuck him.

Obama and Hillary never wanted to give full amnesty to illegal immigrants so much as just not be needlessly harsh and scapegoat them as evil rapists and killers like Trump does. Again, fuck him - you are wrong on this.


I never said illegal immigrants are responsible for all crime. I'm sorry if it sounded different but my sentiment was that I'd rather there be less crime, regardless of how much we think they're responsible for. If the law pertaining to illegal immigration was better upheld and the illegal immigrants who did commit crime weren't here - the citizens exposed to said crime wouldn't have had to been exposed to it (no matter how large or small that figure is). I disagree about how complicated you're making this out to be. It's taking a population of people that shouldn't be here, with whatever amount of criminals are within that population (not going to debate the exact figure), and taking them back where they came from.

Quote:
committed extremely minor offenses


An example of this I saw on CNN a month or so ago was them sympathizing with an illegal immigrant who was "merely" deported for a DUI. This person should've been appreciating the fact he's even in the USA - yet I'm supposed to be feel sorry for them when they get punished for driving around drunk? I don't think immigrants should be sought out and deported for minor crimes but when I see corporate media using DUI to paint a picture of sympathy - I'm quite skeptical to say the least.

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 1:41 am 
 

^ You're wasting your time, as I said. Dude claims he supported Bernie, but Bernie would be horrified at this xenophobic, reality-denying garbage.

Subrick wrote:
Here, ladies and gentleman, you can see a prime example of rejecting reality and substituting your own.

Yup
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t1337Dude
Metalhead

Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 5:20 am
Posts: 960
Location: Seattle
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 4:09 am 
 

Morrigan wrote:
^ You're wasting your time, as I said. Dude claims he supported Bernie, but Bernie would be horrified at this xenophobic, reality-denying garbage.

Subrick wrote:
Here, ladies and gentleman, you can see a prime example of rejecting reality and substituting your own.

Yup


God forbid someone have a change of opinion or even ideology :P

After the whole DNC meltdown and Bernie no longer being a front-runner, I started paying closer attention - reading more about political issues to educate myself on both sides of issues that I previously only heard one side of. After hearing different perspectives on issues like abortion, gun control, illegal immigration, climate change, etc. I realized I used to be extremely far left-leaning. Now I've changed my opinions over the last year and find myself closer to the center, if only because I think the laws of my country should be respected. I'm an optimistic person. I supported Obama when he was President and I'm going to try to support Trump when I can.

Honestly a lot of what turned me away from left-leaning ideology is the pretentious attitudes and pure vitriol for people who disagree. Living in Seattle I'm surrounded by it. Instead of solid arguments, I see a lot of name-calling, hypocrisy, and emotional shit-flinging.

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why
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:43 pm
Posts: 745
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 6:42 am 
 

t1337Dude wrote:
Instead of solid arguments, I see a lot of name-calling, hypocrisy, and emotional shit-flinging.


Yeah, I completely agree that's really the worst thing about Trump.

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Rykov
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:52 pm
Posts: 454
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 6:43 am 
 

t1337Dude wrote:
Instead of solid arguments, I see a lot of name-calling, hypocrisy, and emotional shit-flinging.

And... you don't see any of those things coming from Trump?
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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 6:49 am 
 

Rykov wrote:
t1337Dude wrote:
Instead of solid arguments, I see a lot of name-calling, hypocrisy, and emotional shit-flinging.

And... you don't see any of those things coming from Trump?

What a nut-job pussy wacko. Typical LOSER posting at failing Metal Archives. Not surprising he'd be so dimwitted, given M-A's own foray into fake news which, like the cowards they are, they backpedaled on the following day, and even tried to pass it off as this fake thing called, "an April Fools Day joke." Worst of all, they did it ON EASTER DAY. Pfffft. Everyone knows the Easter Bunny died for our sins when he was chopped up into little pieces so Judas Priest could feed the 5000 animals in the Ark. The sacrilege that they would take such a holy day as April The First (named after the first Easter Bunny) and try to pass it off as a "prank day" is truly sickening. SAD!
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acid_bukkake
SAD!

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:45 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 8:10 am 
 

Rykov wrote:
t1337Dude wrote:
Instead of solid arguments, I see a lot of name-calling, hypocrisy, and emotional shit-flinging.

And... you don't see any of those things coming from Trump?

He didn't say that, but that this one line from his post is what immediately spawned three replies shows there's some truth to it.
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Resident_Hazard
Possessed by Starscream's Ghost

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:33 pm
Posts: 4011
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 8:55 am 
 

Ahhh John Oliver. Lays out the details of Stupid Watergate, which is pretty much a great way to look at this.

Youtube: show


John McCain has admitted this is getting to be a Watergate-sized scandal.

By the way, this video points out a horror.

If Trump goes down, Pence is next.
If Pence goes down, Paul Dickbag Ryan is next.
If Paul Ryan went down, Orrin Hatch would be next.

Cripes.
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why
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:43 pm
Posts: 745
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 10:04 am 
 

acid_bukkake wrote:
He didn't say that, but that this one line from his post is what immediately spawned three replies shows there's some truth to it.


It was implied in his post that only the "left-leaning ideology" does that two sentences before.
"Spawning posts" doesn't show any "truth to it", he himself proves to be hypocritical though, because if you don't see "name-calling, hypocrisy and emotional shit flinging" in what Donald Trump does, but instead only see it on the left and name that as the reason why you turned away from the left, you are clearly willingly ignoring the massive problems that Donald Trump stands for.

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acid_bukkake
SAD!

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:45 am
Posts: 1182
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 10:10 am 
 

why wrote:
It was implied in his post that only the "left-leaning ideology" does that two sentences before.
"Spawning posts" doesn't show any "truth to it", he himself proves to be hypocritical though, because if you don't see "name-calling, hypocrisy and emotional shit flinging" in what Donald Trump does, but instead only see it on the left and name that as the reason why you turned away from the left, you are clearly willingly ignoring the massive problems that Donald Trump stands for.

I didn't get any implication of that at all, actually. The implication was clear: he WAS far-left and has moved toward the center with a motivating factor being the pretentiousness of the vocal far-left. That your reaction is to then claim he sees nothing wrong with the actions and words uttered by Trump and his supporters/constituents seems like the kind of attitude he's speaking of.
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why
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:43 pm
Posts: 745
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 10:39 am 
 

He said "I honestly think Trump is doing a great job" so he seems to be perfectly fine with trump's shit flinging.

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severzhavnost
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:16 pm
Posts: 2272
Location: Ottawa
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 10:44 am 
 

It is bizarre how with all the storms swirling around the President, not a drop has blown back on Mike Pence. He's just quietly hovering blameless in the background... Can't help but wonder if the Repubs haven't pulled a crazy-ass bait and switch: they knew they couldn't get back in office with a real Republican, at least not through the front door. So they allow their candidacy to be won by someone who will look like an outsider while promising everything; pro-US trade, security, foreign disentanglement, but fail to deliver any of it whether by incompetence (the Mexican Wall) or by willful deception (continuing to feed the war machine). Then when everyone hates this buffoon, he gets dumped or bails and America gets the real Repub they didn't know they wanted all along!
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acid_bukkake
SAD!

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:45 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 10:47 am 
 

why wrote:
He said "I honestly think Trump is doing a great job" so he seems to be perfectly fine with trump's shit flinging.

Touché
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Resident_Hazard
Possessed by Starscream's Ghost

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:33 pm
Posts: 4011
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 11:36 am 
 

severzhavnost wrote:
It is bizarre how with all the storms swirling around the President, not a drop has blown back on Mike Pence. He's just quietly hovering blameless in the background... Can't help but wonder if the Repubs haven't pulled a crazy-ass bait and switch: they knew they couldn't get back in office with a real Republican, at least not through the front door. So they allow their candidacy to be won by someone who will look like an outsider while promising everything; pro-US trade, security, foreign disentanglement, but fail to deliver any of it whether by incompetence (the Mexican Wall) or by willful deception (continuing to feed the war machine). Then when everyone hates this buffoon, he gets dumped or bails and America gets the real Repub they didn't know they wanted all along!



I made a similar point in the FFA thread before this one was created, that I think the Republicans are using Trump to further plans they know to be unpopular, so they can blame it all on him and walk away with horrible bills passed but able to wash their hands of the whole thing. Pence is not completely untarnished, though.

I think, right now, best case scenario is that this Stupid Watergate shit drags on for another year and a half, long enough for the Republicans to lose a lot of seats in the House and Senate, for Trump to resign (which I suspect is vastly more likely than him being impeached), Pence to step in, but to have his power severely curtailed by the influx of Democrats in Congress.

That's less than 2 years away now. Granted, in President Trump time, it'll feel more like 350.
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Xlxlx
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 11:37 am 
 

Pence is a fucking James Bond villain.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 12:07 pm 
 

acid_bukkake wrote:
He didn't say that, but that this one line from his post is what immediately spawned three replies shows there's some truth to it.

Pointing out hypocrisy != "shit-flinging"

That said, I'm fine with shit-flinging towards Trump supporters. One, not like the other side is particularly civil (see: Trump himself, or his supporters sneering about snowflakes, libtards, etc.) to begin with. And two, they deserve it for being so fucking dumb. No point in even trying to educate people that are so far gone.

Edit:
loooooooooooooooool

It's like a sitcom character. Except real life. And he's the POTUS. :o
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Resident_Hazard
Possessed by Starscream's Ghost

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:33 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 12:33 pm 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
Pence is a fucking James Bond villain.


"No Mr. Bond, I expect you to be electrocuted until you are no longer homosexual."
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 1:13 pm 
 

Another not-so-old tweet to add to the pile:

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/sta ... 0282156032
Jan 2016 wrote:
Hillary Clinton doesn't have the strength or stamina to be president. Jeb Bush is a low energy individual, but Hillary is not much better!


Donald Trump drops out of Saudi Arabia event due to 'exhaustion' (President sent his daughter in his place at youth event)
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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Earthcubed
The Great Fearmonger

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
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Location: eccaira nare epë Anar
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 1:43 pm 
 

Bernie Sanders supporters going for Trump is not actually super unheard of. Sanders has a history of being tougher on immigration than is the norm for the modern Democratic party, largely out of concerns for low-income workers and also concerns that his larger-scale social welfare proposals would face long-term financial difficulties with dramatically higher immigration levels. All this is to say his approach to immigration is from a rational perspective, whereas the two major parties are more motivated by "how will this change our electoral prospects in the future" considerations.

Sanders also understands issues pertaining to firearms differently than your typical Democrat, so he pulled GOP-leaning voters into the primaries for that reason as well.


Anyway, I came across this lovely nugget. Oh the wonders of Photoshop...

Image
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Resident_Hazard
Possessed by Starscream's Ghost

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:33 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 2:44 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:


The raging hypocrisy of this guy never ceases to amaze. Also from that article, we now have a 12-24-hour window to doomsday in the Middle East:

Quote:
Mr Trump abruptly skipped the event on the second day of his trip in Saudi Arabia and the day before he was due to meet with Israeli leaders to negotiate a peace process with Palestine.


I'm sure nothing absurd or horrible will come from that.
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Resident_Hazard
Possessed by Starscream's Ghost

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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 2:55 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
acid_bukkake wrote:
He didn't say that, but that this one line from his post is what immediately spawned three replies shows there's some truth to it.

Pointing out hypocrisy != "shit-flinging"

That said, I'm fine with shit-flinging towards Trump supporters. One, not like the other side is particularly civil (see: Trump himself, or his supporters sneering about snowflakes, libtards, etc.) to begin with. And two, they deserve it for being so fucking dumb. No point in even trying to educate people that are so far gone.




This might sound odd coming from someone who is fine with both "Firebrand Atheism" and the way Hitchens had no qualms about dressing down opponents in debates or conversation (there is value in being the harsh one, as far as I'm concerned--some people are not won over by kindness): But when the left in this country gloats to the right, it just makes them hunker down and get defensive. Then they feel threatened, and it backs up all the bullshit Trump threw around--that they're oppressed, that they're a minority, that they're losing ground, etc., etc. The same way modern Nazis want to be punched in the fucking face so they can play the victim card.

The people Trump is fucking the most are the people that voted for him, as evidenced by the huge numbers who almost immediately regretted their votes on Twitter, Tumblr, Facebook, etc. I'm sure it may seem fine as you're in Canada and your country knew better than to elect someone like this. People who voted for Trump who are now regretful, remorseful, confused, or feeling lost shouldn't be called out for their crime against humanity for voting for the orange hobgoblin. This is where the left needs to learn how to find common ground to fight enemies who are now running this country.

On the other hand, if it's some blatant racist redneck, by all means, tear into them. People celebrating this fucking buffoon, even now, need to be taken down a few pegs. I am probably on the verge of being unfriended by a guy on Facebook due to the amounts of time I've now ripped into his spreading of right-wing conspiracy theories, blatant sharing of information in an effort to deflect from the horrors of Trump, and overt support of Trump while trying to claim he's a centrist.

Probably stating the obvious here.
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DrummingEdge133
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:48 pm
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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 5:06 pm 
 

The regressive left has done so much to help empower Trump, it's upsetting. The far left does not look any better unfortunately, and I'd dare say if some of the ultra-SJW/ultra-PC types were in power, we'd have some authoritarian sentiments running through our system as well due to them.

I think the U.S. is having amnesia on what the principles of America are supposed to stand for and mean. Freedom of thought, freedom of (and from) religion, freedom of the press, equal rights, free speech. Both the far left and far right appear to be oppressing those ideas to degrees I certainly haven't seen in my lifetime so far. A lot of Trump support appears to be a reactionary response to these ultra-left attitudes I mentioned.

I listen to a lot of Sam Harris' podcasts, and he has pointed out the problems here I mentioned. He also proposed the idea, in passing, of a new center needed for U.S. politics. A center that rediscovers the actual principles on what the U.S. should stand for, because it seems like so many have "lost the plot here". Free speech being the #1 bedrock of all other rights and the most important right to uphold.

Having said that, I thought Donald Trump was grossly and uniquely unfit for the office of President. And seeing his first 100 and some change days in the Presidency, I am not the least bit surprised at how things have unfolded. I can say I'm a bit surprised at the velocity and frequency of all of this though, as Morrigan humorously (and SADLY) illustrated in the OP. I'm not so sure Trump is going to last his first term in office at this rate of scandal, even with a Republican majority in the House.

At least I hope not....
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iamntbatman
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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 11:30 pm 
 

Welp. Flynn has pleaded the fifth and refused to give subpoenaed documents to Congress. He's not hiding anything, he just loves the constitution very much. So yeah, next up are contempt of Congress charges, or referral for criminal investigation.
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hots_towel
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 1:21 am 
 

DrummingEdge133 wrote:
Both the far left and far right appear to be oppressing those ideas to degrees
True. But in this thread, it's only the right

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Morrigan
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 2:14 am 
 

Oh goodie, a "both sides" comment with something about the mythical SJW boogeyman. Just what we needed...
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Hircine
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 6:10 am 
 

Linked because breaker of tables

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Emptiness Cycle
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 6:40 am 
 

Yep, just about sums him up.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 7:08 am 
 

DrummingEdge133 wrote:
The regressive left has done so much to help empower Trump, it's upsetting. The far left does not look any better unfortunately, and I'd dare say if some of the ultra-SJW/ultra-PC types were in power, we'd have some authoritarian sentiments running through our system as well due to them.

I think the U.S. is having amnesia on what the principles of America are supposed to stand for and mean. Freedom of thought, freedom of (and from) religion, freedom of the press, equal rights, free speech. Both the far left and far right appear to be oppressing those ideas to degrees I certainly haven't seen in my lifetime so far. A lot of Trump support appears to be a reactionary response to these ultra-left attitudes I mentioned.

I listen to a lot of Sam Harris' podcasts, and he has pointed out the problems here I mentioned. He also proposed the idea, in passing, of a new center needed for U.S. politics. A center that rediscovers the actual principles on what the U.S. should stand for, because it seems like so many have "lost the plot here". Free speech being the #1 bedrock of all other rights and the most important right to uphold.

Having said that, I thought Donald Trump was grossly and uniquely unfit for the office of President. And seeing his first 100 and some change days in the Presidency, I am not the least bit surprised at how things have unfolded. I can say I'm a bit surprised at the velocity and frequency of all of this though, as Morrigan humorously (and SADLY) illustrated in the OP. I'm not so sure Trump is going to last his first term in office at this rate of scandal, even with a Republican majority in the House.

At least I hope not....


SJWs are a bogeyman as Morrigan said, they have very little actual influence anywhere. And a lot of people on the right tend to see anyone even vaguely in support of social justice as one of them, i.e. "he wants me to consider other peoples' experiences, he's a fucking cuck SJW!" It's a ludicrous term and loose enough to apply to basically anyone one doesn't like. But it definitely isn't the reason for this.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 7:26 am 
 

Resident_Hazard wrote:
This might sound odd coming from someone who is fine with both "Firebrand Atheism" and the way Hitchens had no qualms about dressing down opponents in debates or conversation (there is value in being the harsh one, as far as I'm concerned--some people are not won over by kindness): But when the left in this country gloats to the right, it just makes them hunker down and get defensive. Then they feel threatened, and it backs up all the bullshit Trump threw around--that they're oppressed, that they're a minority, that they're losing ground, etc., etc. The same way modern Nazis want to be punched in the fucking face so they can play the victim card.

The people Trump is fucking the most are the people that voted for him, as evidenced by the huge numbers who almost immediately regretted their votes on Twitter, Tumblr, Facebook, etc. I'm sure it may seem fine as you're in Canada and your country knew better than to elect someone like this. People who voted for Trump who are now regretful, remorseful, confused, or feeling lost shouldn't be called out for their crime against humanity for voting for the orange hobgoblin. This is where the left needs to learn how to find common ground to fight enemies who are now running this country.

On the other hand, if it's some blatant racist redneck, by all means, tear into them. People celebrating this fucking buffoon, even now, need to be taken down a few pegs. I am probably on the verge of being unfriended by a guy on Facebook due to the amounts of time I've now ripped into his spreading of right-wing conspiracy theories, blatant sharing of information in an effort to deflect from the horrors of Trump, and overt support of Trump while trying to claim he's a centrist.

Probably stating the obvious here.


I am more lenient to people who may have vaguely supported him in 2016 and now are quieter or even regret it. If people did it because they honestly thought he was going to help them, then I am sorry they got fucking duped by him. But what I don't forgive is the people who are angrily, loudly supporting him now...

That said also, it isn't poor white trash rednecks who are his most vocal supporters or the most racist, it's wealthy or upper-middle-class white suburban gated community types. Those are the real culprits here. They sit in their houses, get fat off of Fox News and think the violence they see at the most televised riots is what happens at any protest. They absolutely want to return this country to days when minorities, women, etc had much less of a say. But it isn't the trailer park people - we shouldn't malign them. They're not the bad guys.
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Sepulchrave
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 7:44 am 
 

Morrigan wrote:
Oh goodie, a "both sides" comment with something about the mythical SJW boogeyman. Just what we needed...


Above, all, SJW is such a vague term I'm not sure what kind of people he/she's referring to. Are you talking about militant communists or liberal moderates or social democrats or anarchists (who are all very often in profound disagreements with each other anyway) or what? It really is a catch-all term for "any left-leaning people I don't like", even among leftists.
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Resident_Hazard
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 9:16 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:

I am more lenient to people who may have vaguely supported him in 2016 and now are quieter or even regret it. If people did it because they honestly thought he was going to help them, then I am sorry they got fucking duped by him. But what I don't forgive is the people who are angrily, loudly supporting him now...

That said also, it isn't poor white trash rednecks who are his most vocal supporters or the most racist, it's wealthy or upper-middle-class white suburban gated community types. Those are the real culprits here. They sit in their houses, get fat off of Fox News and think the violence they see at the most televised riots is what happens at any protest. They absolutely want to return this country to days when minorities, women, etc had much less of a say. But it isn't the trailer park people - we shouldn't malign them. They're not the bad guys.


I still have military and bumpkin friends on my microscopic Facebook friends-list-thing. Some of these not-wealthy people are still backing him, but several of them have gotten a lot quieter. I would say, roughly half of the people who supported Trump pre-election and before he was in office have gone quiet--and I don't think they unfriended me, ha ha! But there are still those that are *cough* trumpeting for the douche.

Two of them recently posted similar memes about how much they're looking forward to Trump's second term. One of them, I ignore as I don't actually really know him well--just from some military training or something. The other one, I've been friends with for years, and I've been regularly tearing into him. Indeed, I didn't hear much from him for ages until about a month and a half ago when he started chiming in to defend Trump and slur Obama and Clinton any chance he could, regardless of facts. The first thing he posted (and the first I'd heard from him in literal years) was a paragraph so crammed with conspiracy theories, I didn't know how to respond. It was insane--some claim that the Air Force used some kind of weather weapon to destroy that botched North Korean missile launch and something about chemtrails. Seriously. I ignored it thinking he'd stop, but no, he keeps going, increasingly waving the flag of Trump.

I'm not dismissing that there are the wealthy assholes supporting this administration, by the way--Fox News clearly doubled-down on their troll. Just noting that there are still people, as difficult as that can be to believe, that are still defending him. Regular people. Whether they're inspired by the wealthy shits in places like Fox News or Alex Jones or whatnot, I can't say. But I wouldn't be surprised.

Again though, when people are scared and uncertain, even a complete conman promising them what they want to hear will get the vote. As we have all so tragically seen. And people hate to admit they were wrong or made a mistake. Trump convinced them they were a struggling minority and he was their savior. Many of them will refuse to believe they were wrong in their vote for him. In a similar manner, when cults predict doomsday dates and the dates (of course) turn up no doomsday, it's been shown that remaining adherents will fucking double-down on their beliefs and get more involved. In a sense, they belief their strength in faith averted said doomsday.
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Last edited by Resident_Hazard on Tue May 23, 2017 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Resident_Hazard
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 9:21 am 
 

Sepulchrave wrote:
Morrigan wrote:
Oh goodie, a "both sides" comment with something about the mythical SJW boogeyman. Just what we needed...


Above, all, SJW is such a vague term I'm not sure what kind of people he/she's referring to. Are you talking about militant communists or liberal moderates or social democrats or anarchists (who are all very often in profound disagreements with each other anyway) or what? It really is a catch-all term for "any left-leaning people I don't like", even among leftists.



I typically see the term SJW bandied about by people with outdated thinking that feel embarrassed/angry when someone causes them to recognize that they hold outdated/bigoted ideas. Rather than rising above those outdated ideas, they throw "SJW" out as a slur toward others for making them feel bad that they need to grow the fuck up. The irony being that they target defended minority groups as being "special snowflakes" when they are, themselves, the most tender and special of snowflakes.
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