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BrutalizerUtilizerOfTheShadows
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:59 am
Posts: 782
Location: In the Cold Winds of Nowhere
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:21 pm 
 

Twisted_Psychology wrote:
So does Antifa go after Phil Anselmo's bands for the white power comment?


Good question, that seems more likely than going after a band like Taake just because of his fame. I'm surprised anyone in that organization has even heard of them, but that's probably how they were able to tour the US the first two times unnoticed.
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PvtNinjer
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Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:45 am
Posts: 3852
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:45 pm 
 

I dunno if antifa "went after" Phil, but he certainly got tons of backlash from that comment and the attitude I see on social media from left sympathetic/lefty metalheads is that he's a shithead who shouldn't be supported. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets "run out" of certain cities/venues

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true_death
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:47 pm
Posts: 1607
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:06 pm 
 

traxan wrote:
true_death wrote:
I wonder, if Lemmy were still alive - would these people kind of people be attacking him as well and labelling him a "Nazi" because he collected WW2 memorabilia?


He had to defend his collection for years, especially after that documentary they went to his apartment.

Image


But did people protest his concerts? Try to get him thrown off festivals or tours? Shame people for wearing his merch or buying his music? Not that I'm aware of.
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A Backwards 6
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:38 am
Posts: 183
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:31 pm 
 

Sheesh. I start to think that the white man needs to die out as soon as possible, to spare us all from this pathetic idiocy. At least in the western world. :D Sorry, but i can't take this serious anymore.

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BrutalizerUtilizerOfTheShadows
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:59 am
Posts: 782
Location: In the Cold Winds of Nowhere
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:52 pm 
 

A Backwards 6 wrote:
Sheesh. I start to think that the white man needs to die out as soon as possible, to spare us all from this pathetic idiocy. At least in the western world. :D Sorry, but i can't take this serious anymore.


Sounds like reverse-Nazism, but still genocide nonetheless...
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raumr
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:11 pm
Posts: 1025
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:59 pm 
 

It's not "reverse Nazism" at all, as Nazism killed more white people than probably any other ideology. National Socialism is centered on the Aryan/Nordic/Germanic/whatever race, which did not include Slavs (who most would consider white). So Nazism is not a "pro-White ideology" as modern white nationalism would be.

So "A Backwards 6" is not a reverse Nazi, he's just an anti-white bigot.

EDIT: In any case, this has nothing to do with Taake and Antifa. It's a complete derail.

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A Backwards 6
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:38 am
Posts: 183
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:31 pm 
 

All I say is, if all those political correct, self loathing western white pussies hate themselves and want to be replaced by immigrants, then let it happen. They deserve it then. I'm actually a bitter man who is proud to be white, but western pussies are not and blame others to be nazis, even if they siad it was a joke for the sake of extremeness. Black Metal can be extreme you know? I lost hope for western white pussies, maybe there's still hope for the east.

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9505
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:06 pm 
 

When being a dumbfuck edgelord backfires, huh? Hard to feel sorry for Taake here, but still, the Antifas really need to pick better targets than harmless musicians, for fuck's sake.

zera_p wrote:
But what a shock that would be! It should also come with captions explaining what the photo is all about.

Ball Cupper wrote:
It could also be educational if they include arrows and labels, I could finally find the clitoris.

You morons are not funny. Knock it off.
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Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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raumr
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:11 pm
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Location: Norway
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:44 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
When being a dumbfuck edgelord backfires, huh? Hard to feel sorry for Taake [...]


Taake are not the victim here. If anything it's free PR. The victims are the fans who cannot see their favourite band because of Antifa. Maybe also the organizers who got threats (I don't know if that happened in this case). do you feel sorry for them?

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Lythronax
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Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:54 pm
Posts: 62
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:23 pm 
 

Something that's been bugging me: It's no secret that not long before the swastika incident, Hoest did time in jail for violent assault. This is even on the Taake Wikipedia page. I would think to many reasonable people, this would be the worst publicly known act the man has ever done, what with having an actual victim and all. But I'm finding the actual details quite elusive, and no one in the current conversation seems to have any interest in it. I suppose none of his violence was against women or minorities. He seems to have kept out of trouble in the past decade, at least.

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:16 am 
 

raumr wrote:
Taake are not the victim here. If anything it's free PR. The victims are the fans who cannot see their favourite band because of Antifa. Maybe also the organizers who got threats (I don't know if that happened in this case). do you feel sorry for them?

You're correct of course. Yes, it sucks for them.
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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Schmengie
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:14 am
Posts: 500
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:52 am 
 

I just wanted to drop in here and point out something tangentially related:

Y'all remember Anonymous the Internet group, right? They never went away; they're just not the hot shit any more because Project Chanology and Operation AntiSec ran their courses, and 4chan is no longer the exclusive generator for dank memes. Key thing to mention is that the very term, "Anonymous", is a mass noun used to reference a group that is both decentralised and disparate, yet bound together by a discernible culture from which it both arises and which it perpetuates via a net effect of purpose--a stand-alone complex of sorts. That in mind, depending on time and circumstance, some of its "cells" will come together for a good cause like Chanology. Other times, they'll come together to maintain something like Encyclopaedia Dramatica--one of the largest monuments to toxic, irresponsible edge-lording I've ever witnessed. And I say that as a twenty-six-year-old who ate it up in her teen years for what she thought it had in "genius satire" and "shock value" and now knows better.

The Antifa are kind of the same way: a decentralised, disparate non-collective of groups scattered across the States (and the rest of the world) bound only by a common ideology. Their "direct-action" methodology and their chosen targets are more-or-less consistent, but just like Anonymous, some "cells" are going to have their heads screwed on a bit straighter than others. Some will go out and push back an oncoming, violent white supremacist/neo-nazi mob encroaching on a group of peacefully counter-protesting clergy. Others will go batshit, break through the windows of a Starbucks and surrounding vehicles, and try to justify it as some statement against the evil, exploitative bourgeoisie. Some of them know what they're doing and have a good practical effect as a counter-balance to recently-emboldened far-right groups; others are basically the physical manifestation of impotent fucking Twitter out-rage.

That in mind, one finds it difficult to hand out blanket support or condemnation for them. It kind of depends on which cell, or segment, or whatever.

Now, it's worth noting that there is a reason for why shock-value stunts like the one pulled by Hoest ten years ago are not really tolerable these days. One can sum it up to the "crazy political climate", and that's...accurate, if a bit vague, over-simplified, and not poignant enough to mean anything else. Put simply, it's because statements have a ripple effect, regardless of their intent, and especially when made by people of any particular visibility or idolatry. Phil Anselmo can swear up and down that he was making a joke about white wine, but even if that's true (and anybody with any intelligence can gather that it isn't), the take-away is that he is still a prominent performer who has the power to set an example, for better or worse. Him getting up at Dimebash to yell "white power" thus carries with it a dangerous normalising effect that can appear very attractive to anyone who holds any serious tie to that view. It's why it doesn't matter too much whether or not any of the outrageously stupid shit Donald Trump says is said with any thought or ideology behind it; it still puts forth the impression that it's still socially and/or morally acceptable to be a white supremacist xenophobe in fucking 2018, is why we're seeing such a resurgence from what were previously considered fringe elements, and is thus why we are suddenly seeing a similarly-hefty reaction in previously dormant or small-scale Antifa cells.

All of that being said, I agree that if the Antifa are responsible for disrupting Taake's touring schedule, then this is probably one of those cells whose heads are up their own asses, and who are basically a waste of effort, resources, and space. Hoest's stunt isn't excusable by any means for all the same reasons I mentioned above, and if it had happened yesterday, he would have deserved everything that came to him. But, as far as I can gather (and I'm willing to be corrected, here), Hoest and Taake haven't demonstrated a traceable pattern of this kind of behaviour before or after the one key incident, unlike Anselmo over the years and decades. I, for one, have no familiarity with the band or its music beyond this and hearing the name before, am not interested in their touring schedule, and thus have no personal stake in this, but it's plain to see that this is being played up as a microcosm of a much larger, more complex issue when it really, really isn't.

This is part of why far-right ideologies are taking root as strongly as they are: because the mainstream left (the democrats) are fucking spineless, and the rest of the left variously fail to understand how basic human psychology works, how to relay their messages, and how to pool their resources towards any causes that are worth a damn. It's a sad fucking situation when the best thing I've seen to come out of any political discourse in the past two years (and probably longer) is coming from fucking high school students who are tired of dying in fucking droves.

...But let me stop myself right there. I'm starting to go on a tangent, and if I don't check myself, I'll be here all night. I just wanted to come in here and offer my take on why this is happening. That's all.
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Last edited by Schmengie on Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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cweed
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 7:48 pm
Posts: 438
Location: LFK, USA
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:13 am 
 

Schmengie wrote:
I just wanted to drop in here and point out something tangentially related:

Y'all remember Anonymous the Internet group, right? They never went away; they're just not the hot shit any more because Project Chanology and Operation AntiSec ran their courses, and 4chan is no longer the exclusive generator for dank memes. Key thing to mention is that the very term, "Anonymous", is a mass noun used to reference a group that is both decentralised and disparate, yet bound together by a discernible culture from which it both arises and which it perpetuates via a net effect of purpose--a stand-alone complex of sorts. That in mind, depending on time and circumstance, some of its "cells" will come together for a good cause like Chanology. Other times, they'll come together to maintain something like Encyclopaedia Dramatica--one of the largest monuments to toxic, irresponsible edge-lording I've ever witnessed. And I say that as a twenty-six-year-old who ate it up in her teen years for what she thought it had in "genius satire" and "shock value" and now knows better.

The Antifa are kind of the same way: a decentralised, disparate non-collective of groups scattered across the States (and the rest of the world) bound only by a common ideology. Their "direct-action" methodology and their chosen targets are more-or-less consistent, but just like Anonymous, some "cells" are going to have their heads screwed on a bit straighter than others. Some will go out and push back an oncoming, violent white supremacist/neo-nazi mob encroaching on a group of peacefully counter-protesting clergy. Others will go batshit, break through the windows of a Starbucks and surrounding vehicles, and try to justify it as some statement against the evil, exploitative bourgeoisie. Some of them know what they're doing and have a good practical effect as a counter-balance to recently-emboldened far-right groups; others are basically the physical manifestation of impotent fucking Twitter out-rage.

That in mind, one finds it difficult to hand out blanket support or condemnation for them. It kind of depends on which cell, or segment, or whatever.

Now, it's worth noting that there is a reason for why shock-value stunts like the one pulled by Hoest ten years ago are not really tolerable these days. One can sum it up to the "crazy political climate", and that's...accurate, if a bit vague, over-simplified, and not poignant enough to mean anything else. Basically, it's because statements have a ripple effect, regardless of their intent, and especially when made by people of any particular visibility or idolatry. Phil Anselmo can swear up and down that he was making a joke about white wine, but even if that's true (and anybody with any intelligence can gather that it isn't), the take-away is that he is still a prominent performer who has the power to set an example, for better or worse. Him getting up at Dimebash to yell "white power" thus carries with it a dangerous normalising effect that can appear very attractive to anyone who holds any serious tie to that view. It's why it doesn't matter too much whether or not any of the outrageously stupid shit Donald Trump says is said with any thought or ideology behind it; it still puts forth the impression that it's still socially and/or morally acceptable to be a white supremacist xenophobe in fucking 2018, is why we're seeing such a resurgence from what were previously considered fringe elements, and why we are thus suddenly seeing a similarly-hefty reaction in previously dormant or small-scale Antifa cells.

All of that being said, I agree that if the Antifa are responsible for disrupting Taake's touring schedule, then this is probably one of those cells whose heads are up their own asses, and who are basically a waste of effort, resources, and space. Hoest's stunt isn't excusable by any means for all the same reasons I mentioned above, and if it had happened yesterday, he would have deserved everything that came to him. But, as far as I can gather (and I'm willing to be corrected, here), Hoest and Taake haven't demonstrated a traceable pattern of this kind of behaviour before or after the one key incident, unlike Anselmo over the years and decades. I, for one, have no familiarity with the band or its music beyond this and hearing the name before, am not interested in their touring schedule, and thus have no personal stake in this, but it's plain to see that this is being played up as a microcosm of a much larger, more complex issue when it really, really isn't.

This is part of why far-right ideologies are taking root as strongly as they are: because the mainstream left (the democrats) are fucking spineless, and the rest of the left variously fail to understand how basic human psychology works, how to relay their messages, and how to pool their resources towards any causes that are worth a damn. It's a sad fucking situation when the best thing I've seen to come out of any political discourse in the past two years (and probably longer) is coming from fucking high school students who are tired of dying in fucking droves.

...But let me stop myself right there. I'm starting to go on a tangent, and if I don't check myself, I'll be here all night. I just wanted to come in here and offer my take on why this is happening. That's all.


I agree with a lot of what you said; you made some great points! I'm moving back to the US (from South Korea) in a few days and am not not too excited about what I'm coming back into. Especially given the recent "patriot rally" (lots white nationalists, some Confederate flags, etc.) in my hometown which caused a pretty big stir (as you could imagine). Shit's a cancer.

Morrigan wrote:
raumr wrote:
Taake are not the victim here. If anything it's free PR. The victims are the fans who cannot see their favourite band because of Antifa. Maybe also the organizers who got threats (I don't know if that happened in this case). do you feel sorry for them?

You're correct of course. Yes, it sucks for them.


It does indeed suck! I was one of the many who were excited to finally fucking see Taake. They had played in KC before and I had always missed it because (as I mentioned above) I was in Korea, so I was pretty pumped. It's just such a shitty situation all around.
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PvtNinjer
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Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:45 am
Posts: 3852
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:13 pm 
 

Lythronax wrote:
Something that's been bugging me: It's no secret that not long before the swastika incident, Hoest did time in jail for violent assault. This is even on the Taake Wikipedia page. I would think to many reasonable people, this would be the worst publicly known act the man has ever done, what with having an actual victim and all. But I'm finding the actual details quite elusive, and no one in the current conversation seems to have any interest in it. I suppose none of his violence was against women or minorities. He seems to have kept out of trouble in the past decade, at least.


meh violent assault could be something as simple as getting into a fight at the bar. I'm not someone who loves to get into fights or anything, but there's far worse things that someone could do and without any details it's kinda tough to tell what we would actually be getting mad at here.

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Warty_basaloid
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:32 am
Posts: 366
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:35 pm 
 

These antifa clowns would queue up for a Taake concert if he had tattooed a communist flag in his chest. One has to wonder if these idiots have anything better to do than nitpick through decades of European black metal history. Just listen to Snoop Dogg or smth and leave European metal alone. America more and more seems to be a lost cause by now. All these whiny nonsense, safe spaces, micro aggression, etc, jeez, get a grip.

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zera_p
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:22 am
Posts: 93
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:39 pm 
 

The irony is that all those extreme left wing movements who oppose fascists, are the greatest supporters of Islamic fundamentalism and Islamist terror organizations which are, in essence, the most brutal, fascist, totalitarian, hateful and lethal motherfuckers on the face on earth, the likes of which haven't been seen since Nazi Germany.

On a side note, when someone says they are proud of being White/black/Arab/Green/Yellow/Red, what exactly are they proud of? Is it the utterly blind chance that has brought them to be born to a certain couple of people? Like, if you were born white and are proud of it, so had you been born black, would you have loathed yourself?

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zera_p
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:22 am
Posts: 93
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:40 pm 
 

Warty_basaloid wrote:
These antifa clowns would queue up for a Taake concert if he had tattooed a communist flag in his chest. One has to wonder if these idiots have anything better to do than nitpick through decades of European black metal history. Just listen to Snoop Dogg or smth and leave European metal alone. America more and more seems to be a lost cause by now. All these whiny nonsense, safe spaces, micro aggression, etc, jeez, get a grip.


Oh, as if the European love for extreme Islam is any better?!

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Warty_basaloid
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:32 am
Posts: 366
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:49 pm 
 

zera_p wrote:
Warty_basaloid wrote:
These antifa clowns would queue up for a Taake concert if he had tattooed a communist flag in his chest. One has to wonder if these idiots have anything better to do than nitpick through decades of European black metal history. Just listen to Snoop Dogg or smth and leave European metal alone. America more and more seems to be a lost cause by now. All these whiny nonsense, safe spaces, micro aggression, etc, jeez, get a grip.


Oh, as if the European love for extreme Islam is any better?!


You don't seem to know Europe well.

Here look at these spastics
http://www.newsweek.com/antifa-protests ... ies-810159
One even claims that he likes black metal but not wanting desert religions, no, wait, Islam, is just too wicked.

Its OK guys, you can go to Talib Kweli gigs, we go to Marduk and Taake ones.

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9505
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:45 pm 
 

zera_p wrote:
The irony is that all those extreme left wing movements who oppose fascists, are the greatest supporters of Islamic fundamentalism and Islamist terror organizations

"The greatest supporters of Islamic fundamentalism", really now? Are you per chance conflating criticism of Islamophobia (which is a real thing, by the way, even if it's sometimes used as a crying-wolf kind of shield to deflect from legitimate criticism of the religion)? Never seen even the loudest Antifa defend Islamic terrorism, give me a break. You're spouting hyperbolic nonsense and you know it.

In any case, let's drop this Europe/Islam derail. It has nothing to do with the topic. This goes for you too, Warty, getting sick of your edgelord off-topic shitposting.

Schmengie wrote:
I just wanted to drop in here and point out something tangentially related:

Y'all remember Anonymous the Internet group, right? They never went away; they're just not the hot shit any more because Project Chanology and Operation AntiSec ran their courses, and 4chan is no longer the exclusive generator for dank memes. Key thing to mention is that the very term, "Anonymous", is a mass noun used to reference a group that is both decentralised and disparate, yet bound together by a discernible culture from which it both arises and which it perpetuates via a net effect of purpose--a stand-alone complex of sorts. That in mind, depending on time and circumstance, some of its "cells" will come together for a good cause like Chanology. Other times, they'll come together to maintain something like Encyclopaedia Dramatica--one of the largest monuments to toxic, irresponsible edge-lording I've ever witnessed. And I say that as a twenty-six-year-old who ate it up in her teen years for what she thought it had in "genius satire" and "shock value" and now knows better.

The Antifa are kind of the same way: a decentralised, disparate non-collective of groups scattered across the States (and the rest of the world) bound only by a common ideology. Their "direct-action" methodology and their chosen targets are more-or-less consistent, but just like Anonymous, some "cells" are going to have their heads screwed on a bit straighter than others. Some will go out and push back an oncoming, violent white supremacist/neo-nazi mob encroaching on a group of peacefully counter-protesting clergy. Others will go batshit, break through the windows of a Starbucks and surrounding vehicles, and try to justify it as some statement against the evil, exploitative bourgeoisie. Some of them know what they're doing and have a good practical effect as a counter-balance to recently-emboldened far-right groups; others are basically the physical manifestation of impotent fucking Twitter out-rage.

That in mind, one finds it difficult to hand out blanket support or condemnation for them. It kind of depends on which cell, or segment, or whatever.

Now, it's worth noting that there is a reason for why shock-value stunts like the one pulled by Hoest ten years ago are not really tolerable these days. One can sum it up to the "crazy political climate", and that's...accurate, if a bit vague, over-simplified, and not poignant enough to mean anything else. Basically, it's because statements have a ripple effect, regardless of their intent, and especially when made by people of any particular visibility or idolatry. Phil Anselmo can swear up and down that he was making a joke about white wine, but even if that's true (and anybody with any intelligence can gather that it isn't), the take-away is that he is still a prominent performer who has the power to set an example, for better or worse. Him getting up at Dimebash to yell "white power" thus carries with it a dangerous normalising effect that can appear very attractive to anyone who holds any serious tie to that view. It's why it doesn't matter too much whether or not any of the outrageously stupid shit Donald Trump says is said with any thought or ideology behind it; it still puts forth the impression that it's still socially and/or morally acceptable to be a white supremacist xenophobe in fucking 2018, is why we're seeing such a resurgence from what were previously considered fringe elements, and why we are thus suddenly seeing a similarly-hefty reaction in previously dormant or small-scale Antifa cells.

All of that being said, I agree that if the Antifa are responsible for disrupting Taake's touring schedule, then this is probably one of those cells whose heads are up their own asses, and who are basically a waste of effort, resources, and space. Hoest's stunt isn't excusable by any means for all the same reasons I mentioned above, and if it had happened yesterday, he would have deserved everything that came to him. But, as far as I can gather (and I'm willing to be corrected, here), Hoest and Taake haven't demonstrated a traceable pattern of this kind of behaviour before or after the one key incident, unlike Anselmo over the years and decades. I, for one, have no familiarity with the band or its music beyond this and hearing the name before, am not interested in their touring schedule, and thus have no personal stake in this, but it's plain to see that this is being played up as a microcosm of a much larger, more complex issue when it really, really isn't.

This is part of why far-right ideologies are taking root as strongly as they are: because the mainstream left (the democrats) are fucking spineless, and the rest of the left variously fail to understand how basic human psychology works, how to relay their messages, and how to pool their resources towards any causes that are worth a damn. It's a sad fucking situation when the best thing I've seen to come out of any political discourse in the past two years (and probably longer) is coming from fucking high school students who are tired of dying in fucking droves.

...But let me stop myself right there. I'm starting to go on a tangent, and if I don't check myself, I'll be here all night. I just wanted to come in here and offer my take on why this is happening. That's all.


Fantastic post. Couldn't have said it any better. I hope more people read it and don't go tl;dr because it's well worth reading.
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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zera_p
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:22 am
Posts: 93
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:01 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
"The greatest supporters of Islamic fundamentalism", really now? Are you per chance conflating criticism of Islamophobia (which is a real thing, by the way, even if it's sometimes used as a crying-wolf kind of shield to deflect from legitimate criticism of the religion)? Never seen even the loudest Antifa defend Islamic terrorism, give me a break. You're spouting hyperbolic nonsense and you know it.



Oh really? Ever heard of the Baader-Meinhof extreme left wing organisation? Remind me who did they support? Oh, but it was the Seventies, you may tell me. Get your head out of your ass and look around you, it has nothing to do with Islamophobia, these are self-loathing, full-stomached, well-fed westerners who adore arab/muslim fascism, plain and simple.
Far left, as they are liked to be called, are the supporters of the greater evil of today. Why Greater? Because while Nazi ideology is nowadays marginal at best, and serves more as a romantic nostalgia by some lifeless fuckwits, Extreme Islam on the other hand, which is today's Fascism de facto and par excellence, is alive and kicking and sends its long tentacles all across the world, causing untold misery on a daily basis and unfathomable atrocities with a wicked smile.

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Trashy_Rambo
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:04 pm
Posts: 1334
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:48 pm 
 

zera_p wrote:
Morrigan wrote:
"The greatest supporters of Islamic fundamentalism", really now? Are you per chance conflating criticism of Islamophobia (which is a real thing, by the way, even if it's sometimes used as a crying-wolf kind of shield to deflect from legitimate criticism of the religion)? Never seen even the loudest Antifa defend Islamic terrorism, give me a break. You're spouting hyperbolic nonsense and you know it.



Oh really? Ever heard of the Baader-Meinhof extreme left wing organisation? Remind me who did they support? Oh, but it was the Seventies, you may tell me. Get your head out of your ass and look around you, it has nothing to do with Islamophobia, these are self-loathing, full-stomached, well-fed westerners who adore arab/muslim fascism, plain and simple.
Far left, as they are liked to be called, are the supporters of the greater evil of today. Why Greater? Because while Nazi ideology is nowadays marginal at best, and serves more as a romantic nostalgia by some lifeless fuckwits, Extreme Islam on the other hand, which is today's Fascism de facto and par excellence, is alive and kicking and sends its long tentacles all across the world, causing untold misery on a daily basis and unfathomable atrocities with a wicked smile.


That's just a smidge dramatic, don't you think?
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t1337Dude
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:36 pm 
 

Schmengie wrote:
...But let me stop myself right there. I'm starting to go on a tangent, and if I don't check myself, I'll be here all night. I just wanted to come in here and offer my take on why this is happening. That's all.


I generally agree that you can't just throw around blanket statements about groups. But in this case, I've never actually seen Antifa do anything productive. I've seen them act like children more times than I can possibly count. But there isn't a single solitary thing I've read about them and thought "Gee - good thing these guys are around!". The media is on their side so they don't have any excuse. I truly believe they're all assholes and dipshits and those defending them are either naive or a part of the foolishness. Them and "Nazis" are truly peas in a pod.

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Trashy_Rambo
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Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:04 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:42 pm 
 

t1337Dude wrote:
Schmengie wrote:
...But let me stop myself right there. I'm starting to go on a tangent, and if I don't check myself, I'll be here all night. I just wanted to come in here and offer my take on why this is happening. That's all.


I generally agree that you can't just throw around blanket statements about groups. But in this case, I've never actually seen Antifa do anything productive. I've seen them act like children more times than I can possibly count. But there isn't a single solitary thing I've read about them and thought "Gee - good thing these guys are around!". The media is on their side so they don't have any excuse. I truly believe they're all assholes and dipshits and those defending them are either naive or a part of the foolishness. Them and "Nazis" are truly peas in a pod.


Oh yes, people who are against Nazis are just as bad as literal, genocide advocating Nazis.
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Schmengie
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:48 pm 
 

t1337Dude wrote:
Schmengie wrote:
...But let me stop myself right there. I'm starting to go on a tangent, and if I don't check myself, I'll be here all night. I just wanted to come in here and offer my take on why this is happening. That's all.


I generally agree that you can't just throw around blanket statements about groups. But in this case, I've never actually seen Antifa do anything productive. I've seen them act like children more times than I can possibly count. But there isn't a single solitary thing I've read about them and thought "Gee - good thing these guys are around!". The media is on their side so they don't have any excuse. I truly believe they're all assholes and dipshits and those defending them are either naive or a part of the foolishness. Them and "Nazis" are truly peas in a pod.


Here's the positive example to which I alluded: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... ville.html

And just for the sake of fairness, here's the negative example to which I also alluded:
Youtube: show

(For the record, comparing them to ISIL is just plain stupid, and I'm pretty sure that pair of stooges talking about JRPG's and not knowing how to spell "fascist" are a staged parody, but you get the idea about the Starbucks bit.)

Martin Luther King, Jr himself was flanked at certain rallies by elements of the civil rights movement who favoured a more weaponised approach. King had not specifically called them there, and obviously didn't condone that approach; nevertheless, they came of their own volition anyway and basically served as an informal, unsanctioned guard for him against those who most wanted him buried. Even King had to admit after a while that in the face of such violent oppression, self-defence was sometimes quite necessary, even if the core of the movement was about peace and non-violence.

You can kind of draw parallels between those weaponised elements of civil rights and the Antifa in Charlottesville. Don't get me wrong: The Antifa are the Antifa and they were there for a fight in much the same way, but their timeliness in this case was, for all anyone knew, absolutely essential. You might even expand upon this to say that, based on the data, successful civil up-rising against an oppressive regime or systemic culture tends to require both peaceful and non-peaceful elements, even if they aren't necessarily on the same page with each other.

But, again, in fairness, mileage of the Antifa, being as decentralised as they are, will vary, and you will have fucking idiots in the movement in different places. It's why, depending upon whom you speak, they are either the most direct and practically useful bastion for change and/or deterrence, or basically a yet-unrecognised terrorist group.
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Everflowingstream
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:55 pm 
 

Just remembered, Taake came to Australia last year and played at a major art festival sponsored by the state of Tasmania.

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Lythronax
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Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:54 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:27 am 
 

PvtNinjer wrote:
Lythronax wrote:
Something that's been bugging me: It's no secret that not long before the swastika incident, Hoest did time in jail for violent assault. This is even on the Taake Wikipedia page. I would think to many reasonable people, this would be the worst publicly known act the man has ever done, what with having an actual victim and all. But I'm finding the actual details quite elusive, and no one in the current conversation seems to have any interest in it. I suppose none of his violence was against women or minorities. He seems to have kept out of trouble in the past decade, at least.


meh violent assault could be something as simple as getting into a fight at the bar. I'm not someone who loves to get into fights or anything, but there's far worse things that someone could do and without any details it's kinda tough to tell what we would actually be getting mad at here.


Yeah, I hope that's all it was. Just saying, of all the "dirt" we have on this guy's past, I'd rather see an offensive symbol at a show than get beaten up at one, y'know?

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BURlAL
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Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 11:32 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:13 am 
 

Twisted_Psychology wrote:
So does Antifa go after Phil Anselmo's bands for the white power comment?


Nope!

I said it when this same shit happened to Marduk, people accuse liberals/antifa for it, but i personally think its because of the anti-christian themes. Its probably ignorant christians behind it. As you pointed out they dont do it for Phils bands, didnt do it for Motorhead or Slayer.....


I wonder what would happen if Hoest claimed religious freedom? Ya know since the swastika in a religious symbol after all.....

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Schmengie
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:23 am 
 

BURlAL wrote:
I wonder what would happen if Hoest claimed religious freedom? Ya know since the swastika in a religious symbol after all.....


Depends. Is there any evidence to suggest that he has any cultural or spiritual connection to Hinduism, Buddhism, or Jainism*, and that his decade-old stunt wasn't pulled for shock value like he already admitted?

* One or two edgy lines in a song don't count.
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tahu157
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:33 am 
 

BURlAL wrote:
I wonder what would happen if Hoest claimed religious freedom? Ya know since the swastika in a religious symbol after all.....

Worth noting that the Swastika is a modification of the manji. Manji, the original, religious, symbol lies flat on its side and points counter-clockwise. Swastika is rotated to a 45 degree angle and points clockwise. Because there's a difference, it's pretty clear that his intentions were to wear a swastika and not to make any kind of declaration of religious affiliation.

Image
Image

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Warty_basaloid
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:32 am
Posts: 366
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:11 am 
 

This Talib Kweli character supposedly used to be a 5%er.

From Wikipedia
Quote:
The Five-Percent Nation, sometimes referred to as NGE or NOGE, the Nation of God and Earth, or the Five Percenters, is a cultural movement founded in 1964 in the Harlem section of the borough of Manhattan, New York City, by a former member of the Nation of Islam named Clarence 13X (born Clarence Edward Smith and later known as ALLAH the Father).

Allah the Father, a former student of Malcolm X, left the NOI after a dispute with Elijah Muhammad over Elijah's teaching that the white man was the devil, yet not teaching that the black man was God.[2] Allah the Father also rejected the assertion that Nation's biracial founder, Wallace Fard Muhammad, was Allah and instead taught that the black man was himself God personified.[2] Members of the group call themselves Allah's Five Percenters, which reflects the concept that ten percent of the people in the world know the truth of existence, and those elites and agents opt to keep eighty-five percent of the world in ignorance and under their controlling thumb; the remaining five percent are those who know the truth and are determined to enlighten the rest.[3]

The New York City areas of Harlem ("Mecca") and Brooklyn ("Medina") were named after notable Islamic cities by members of the organization.[4][5] Other areas include Detroit (D-Mecca"), New Jersey ("New Jerusalem"), Chicago ("C-Medina"), Queens ("the Desert"), Connecticut ("New Heaven"), St. Louis ("Saudi"), Seattle ("Morocco"), New Rochelle ("Now Rule"), and Dallas ("Sudan").[6]

The Nation of Gods and Earths teaches that black people are the original people of the planet Earth, and therefore they are the fathers ("Gods") and mothers ("Earths") of civilization.[2] The Nation teaches that Supreme Mathematics and Supreme Alphabet, a set of principles created by Allah the Father, is the key to understanding humankind's relationship to the universe. The Nation does not believe in a mystery God but instead teaches that the Asiatic Blackman is God and his proper name is Allah, the Arabic word for "God"


These are the people you want to decide what you can and cannot enjoy in your country by intimidating business owners?

Also, and perhaps that's different in parts of the USA, there are tons of Muslims in European cities and many people, including non-White people, aren't always happy with some aspects of parts of that community/culture or that religion (and often other religions) as a whole. It's a bit odd to expect people who despise these religions to bang on about Christianity only (which is fairly weak and on the way out in Western Europe) but not to mention Islam which is not only more extreme still but also still growing and rather rapidly as more and more Muslims arrive who usually have more children than Western Europeans. Ironically it will be feminists and LBGT people that will most likely clash first with these "new Europeans" as they'll get hit on in inappropriate ways or just get hit by certain people. And by ignoring these issues they've opened to door wide to far right populists, so whichever way you look at it, it's not exactly turning out to be a success story.

I genuinely wonder how they think this will all be resolved in the long run. Will everybody suddenly get on with each other? Will Islam become as fluffy as the Church of England? Will the native Europeans convert (people who even reject liberal, modern Christianity...)? Will Muslims become atheists (or pagans...surely they had something better before Islam in that part of the world as well) too? It's bound to cause some tension, I'd say. If you stick your head in the sand now to live an easy comfortable life, your grandchildren will have to deal with it, old boomer generation tactic.

It might be Pampers next lol.
Quote:
Muslims in India have been filmed building a pyre of Pampers products because they can see the word Mohammed in the face of a cartoon cat.
Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2018/02/22/muslims-f ... to=cbshare

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PvtNinjer
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Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:45 am
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:21 pm 
 

zera_p wrote:
Oh really? Ever heard of the Baader-Meinhof extreme left wing organisation? Remind me who did they support? Oh, but it was the Seventies, you may tell me. Get your head out of your ass and look around you, it has nothing to do with Islamophobia, these are self-loathing, full-stomached, well-fed westerners who adore arab/muslim fascism, plain and simple.
Far left, as they are liked to be called, are the supporters of the greater evil of today. Why Greater? Because while Nazi ideology is nowadays marginal at best, and serves more as a romantic nostalgia by some lifeless fuckwits, Extreme Islam on the other hand, which is today's Fascism de facto and par excellence, is alive and kicking and sends its long tentacles all across the world, causing untold misery on a daily basis and unfathomable atrocities with a wicked smile.


lmfao

dude. You need to log off for a while.

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The Crazy Old School Music Fan
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 12:13 pm
Posts: 131
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:30 pm 
 

Because when these faggots decide something is bad for people, it's automatically bad and anybody who likes it is a nazi. It's why punk has been shit for over 30 years and why metal has been following in punk's footsteps for the last 20+ years.

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The Crazy Old School Music Fan
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Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 12:13 pm
Posts: 131
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:36 pm 
 

BURlAL wrote:
I said it when this same shit happened to Marduk, people accuse liberals/antifa for it, but i personally think its because of the anti-christian themes. Its probably ignorant christians behind it. As you pointed out they dont do it for Phils bands, didnt do it for Motorhead or Slayer.....

First of all... http://www.metalblast.net/blog/the-blm-boycott-marduk/

Secondly, that statement still makes no sense, mostly because Slayer not only has anti-Christian themes, but was, in fact, boycotted in the past for that (and for many songs they made about nazis, too).

Anyways, back to Marduk, it's not just ignorant Christians, to be honest. Christian cowards are too fucking weak to stop these faggots trying to get all of these bands to stop touring the US.

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BURlAL
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Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 11:32 pm
Posts: 389
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:39 pm 
 

tahu157 wrote:
BURlAL wrote:
I wonder what would happen if Hoest claimed religious freedom? Ya know since the swastika in a religious symbol after all.....

Worth noting that the Swastika is a modification of the manji. Manji, the original, religious, symbol lies flat on its side and points counter-clockwise. Swastika is rotated to a 45 degree angle and points clockwise. Because there's a difference, it's pretty clear that his intentions were to wear a swastika and not to make any kind of declaration of religious affiliation.

Image
Image


Just like the cross there are many different versions....

Image

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Schmengie
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Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:14 am
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:43 pm 
 

The Crazy Old School Music Fan wrote:
Everything this raging cunt just said.


Careful not to cut yourself on your own edge, child. It's dangerous.
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The Crazy Old School Music Fan
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 12:13 pm
Posts: 131
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:56 pm 
 

Schmengie wrote:
The Crazy Old School Music Fan wrote:
Everything this raging cunt just said.


Careful not to cut yourself on your own edge, child. It's dangerous.

You know what's really edgy? Someone who has concerts shut down and assaulting alleged "nazis" because they disagree with the person's percieved political beliefs.

Just like the weak sheep that are christian having metal concerts shut down in the 80s for percieved religious views, anti-fa in the modern day are just as bad, if not worse. I am not sympathetic to insects like that; they should get crushed like the mewling weaklings they are for silencing people for alleged viewpoints that said person may or may not have.

Yes, I understand; people hate nazis. So fucking what? Big deal; any rational people would. No need to celebrate realizing nazis are bad. But this group sending death threats to venues over a band doing something risque as a PR stunt? Stupidity at its best. Anybody who supports the ideology doing this, whether nazis or "anti-fascists", has no room to talk about it being bad that they're doing this, because they're no better for supporting such a decadent cause.

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Burnyoursins
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Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:59 am
Posts: 995
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:33 am 
 

There sure is a lot of dumb bullshit like, "mewling weaklings" in there for a dude posting on a forum, brother. Remind me again, was it the Nazis assaulting people, or the one or two cases of Antifa members assaulting people who probably WERE Nazi-sympathizers? Because I seem to recall many, many, MANY recent cases of Nazis physically assaulting people, and in some cases, killing them. Christ, you people are acting like your goddamn civil liberties are being attacked, which if I may remind you all, they are not. I guess it's pretty par for the course coming from the only country on the goddamn planet that can't agree on gun regulations. Yes, they very much probably misread this one, and it's all a fucking crapshoot, but oh my god, there are far more cases of actual fucking Nazis beating the stuffing out of people than there are cases of Antifa cells losing their goddamn minds. And that's my time folks, this is a maelstrom of stupidity just waiting to intensify,

Also, I appreciate that long post of yours, Schmengie. That was splendidly worded. Right on the goddamn head.
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The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
SleightOfVickonomy wrote:
...no one still knows what it's supposed to be about.

Well, I reckon there's a pretty good chance it'll be about gory tits.

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PvtNinjer
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Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:45 am
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:31 pm 
 

The Crazy Old School Music Fan wrote:
You know what's really edgy? Someone who has concerts shut down and assaulting alleged "nazis" because they disagree with the person's percieved political beliefs.

Just like the weak sheep that are christian having metal concerts shut down in the 80s for percieved religious views, anti-fa in the modern day are just as bad, if not worse. I am not sympathetic to insects like that; they should get crushed like the mewling weaklings they are for silencing people for alleged viewpoints that said person may or may not have.

Yes, I understand; people hate nazis. So fucking what? Big deal; any rational people would. No need to celebrate realizing nazis are bad. But this group sending death threats to venues over a band doing something risque as a PR stunt? Stupidity at its best. Anybody who supports the ideology doing this, whether nazis or "anti-fascists", has no room to talk about it being bad that they're doing this, because they're no better for supporting such a decadent cause.


Man, you'd do great on skeptic rational pedant youtube. Set up a patreon, have Jordan Peterson on, you'll kill it. :lol:

And let's be real, Taake isn't even that good.

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Ball Cupper
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:51 pm
Posts: 160
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:37 pm 
 

The Crazy Old School Music Fan wrote:
You know what's really edgy? Someone who has concerts shut down and assaulting alleged "nazis" because they disagree with the person's percieved political beliefs.

Just like the weak sheep that are christian having metal concerts shut down in the 80s for percieved religious views, anti-fa in the modern day are just as bad, if not worse. I am not sympathetic to insects like that; they should get crushed like the mewling weaklings they are for silencing people for alleged viewpoints that said person may or may not have.

Yes, I understand; people hate nazis. So fucking what? Big deal; any rational people would. No need to celebrate realizing nazis are bad. But this group sending death threats to venues over a band doing something risque as a PR stunt? Stupidity at its best. Anybody who supports the ideology doing this, whether nazis or "anti-fascists", has no room to talk about it being bad that they're doing this, because they're no better for supporting such a decadent cause.


Man, I think Antifa weren't right on this particular occasion, but Antifa just as bad as a top-down pressure on a whole genre? I'm sorry but I'm just not seeing that.

Like, I'm just not seeing how incidents like this can square up to things like the PMRC hearings or the Judas Priest trial in terms of impact.

And let's face it, if someone expects not to get any shit from displaying swastikas, then they've gotta be pretty dumb.
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Unorthodox
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:49 pm 
 

I think it's funny what these people find important. You got second degree murderers and people who've assaulted pregnant women that get unwaivering support from their millions of hip hop fans on soundcloud, but one little black metal band puts up a swastika 11+ years ago and everyone in antifa freaks the fuck out.

Gain some fucking perspective, separate the artist from the art.
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