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Slater922
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:24 pm
Posts: 726
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 7:32 pm 
 

Cradle of Filth and Dimmu Borgir are kinda like the Six Feet Under of black metal, where everyone love to make fun of them. However, if you have to choose one over the other, which band do you prefer? I'm more of a Dimmu Borgir guy myself and I do enjoy their albums "For all tid", "Stormblåst", "Enthrone Darkness Triumphant", and "Puritanical Euphoric Misanthropia". I also did like Cradle of Filth's "The Principle of Evil Made Flesh" and "Nymphetamine", but personally, they're more like a Marilyn Manson, and are more known for their controversies than their music (especially with that Jesus is a Cunt shirt).
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LycanthropeMoon
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Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:53 pm
Posts: 1154
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 7:43 pm 
 

Cradle of Filth. "The Principle of Evil Made Flesh", "V Empire", "Dusk and Her Embrace", "Cruelty and the Beast", and "Midian" are stone cold classics in my eyes. Fantastic and unique music, complex and evocative lyricism, fun gothic imagery and stage shows - just an all around fantastic package. "Bitter Suites to Succubi" has some nice originals, though I'm not that fond of the rerecordings of "Principle" songs. "Damnation and a Day", "Nymphetamine" and "Thornography" are all mixed bags. "Godspeed" was pretty good, and "Darkly Darkly Venus Aversa" was okay. Didn't like "Manticore" much at all. "Hammer of the Witches" and "Cryptoriana - The Seductiveness of Decay" are both fantastic and their best albums since the old days. Comparing them to Six Feet Under is beyond unfair simply because even their worst albums have a hell of a lot more effort put into them than anything by SFU.

With Dimmu Borgir, I like everything up to/including "In Sorte Diaboli", but they just don't speak to me quite as much as COF. Again though, comparing them to SFU in any way is extremely unfair, lol.

Also, neither of these bands seem to get the amount of hate SFU currently does. I feel like the hatred for them has died down. In fact, I feel like the COF/Dimmu hate started being moved in the general direction of bands like Deafheaven, but even that's died down pretty significantly.

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ChildClownOutlet
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:52 pm
Posts: 1062
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 7:51 pm 
 

Honestly, I like certain songs from both bands but COF edges out DB just because they have a whole album I actually enjoy(Godspeed on the Devils Thunder) but DB doesnt really have an album I can listen to as a whole. Some stuff from from For All Tid, or EDT I'm fine with but they're just a meh band for me.
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goetia_unreleased
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 5:35 pm
Posts: 51
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 7:59 pm 
 

What is this? 2001? Anyway, always thought Cradle had superior and more memorable riffs. Can't remember too many Dimmu riffs except for maybe some on PoM when they dialed it back on the keyboards. I remember it getting a lot of hate back in the day, but it was a riff-fest. Going back to Cradle, they may have that stupid theme going on, but at least they deliver good music. As an FYI, I am judging both bands by their content up until 2003 or so.
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raumr
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Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:11 pm
Posts: 1809
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 8:01 pm 
 

Slater922 wrote:
I also did like Cradle of Filth's "The Principle of Evil Made Flesh" and "Nymphetamine", but personally, they're more like a Marilyn Manson, and are more known for their controversies than their music (especially with that Jesus is a Cunt shirt).

Absolute nonsense. I can understand having the Marilyn Manson impression if you only listened to Nymphetamine, but they have a musical legacy that is well respected. V Empire, Dusk and Cruelty are a trilogy of 10/10 melodic and symphonic black metal. It goes way beyond shock value.

The two bands are similar in many ways, they both released very popular and well-liked albums in the early-mid 90s, then had commercial success in the late 90s and as the 00s advanced they got shitty. The difference is that Cradle of Filth has had somewhat of a redemption arc. They released Hammer of the Witches in 2015 to great reception and have built their image back up through extensive touring and quality performances.

Dimmu on the other hand have been quiet. They released Abrahadabra back in 2010 and then Eonian in 2018. Very few shows and very little presence in media. Even I recall the In Sorte Diaboli days when they were seen everywhere. It's like they've lost the spark.

I think overall CoF have more excellent albums than Dimmu.

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Thy Shrine
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:37 pm
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Location: Golgotha
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 8:08 pm 
 

Never understood the comparison at all, they never even remotely sounded the same, Dimmu being a more "black metal" band than Cradle ever were, but that's exactly why COF ABSOLUTELY DESTROYED DIMMU EVERY TIME, COF were much more unique, had better riffs, were astronomically better songwriters (I think at least in the 90s, Cradle were one of the better bands around tbh)

I like some Dimmu of course, but I never really cared about them too much, tho In Deaths Embrace is an absolute masterpiece of a song, and they have a few off their first three that are God teir, but compared to Cradle of filth, it's no comparison
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Ace_Rimmer
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:30 am
Posts: 1965
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 11:52 pm 
 

Cradle every time.

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Discordant
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:27 pm
Posts: 236
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 2:01 am 
 

Very different bands, never cared for Cradle. But love EDT and PEM so its easily Dimmu for me
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MercyfulKing
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Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:27 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 2:08 am 
 

I do enjoy Dimmu Borgir's Stormblast (original). Just do not tell NWN! Prod.

Cradle of Filth? Lestat called he wants his shit back. Dusk and Her Embrace is good.
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lordcatfish
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Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:44 pm
Posts: 831
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 3:53 am 
 

Cradle of Filth every day of the week. Nothing Dimmu have done can touch the greatness of Dusk, Cruelty or Midian, or even what I'd consider their second tier releases (Nymphetamine, Hammer of the Witches and Bitter Suites to Succubi). The only album of theirs I ever really come back to is Enthrone Darkness Triumphant.
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Osore
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Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:55 am
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Location: Serbia
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 8:03 am 
 

They were gateway bands for black metal to me back in 2010 and I remember all the hate in youtube comments back then. Throughout the years I almost forgot about Dimmu Borgir, and to this day I still listen to CoF much more often, so ''the winner'' is clear.

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jimbies
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Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:52 pm
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Location: Ontario, Canada
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 8:31 am 
 

Cradle Of Filth by a long shot for me. Although people will argue to not call them black metal, Midian is one of my favourite albums of the genre. Sure, they had a huge gap of pretty-bad to mediocre albums in the 2000s, but their last 2 have been incredible.

As for Dimmu, I could make one insanely great compilation of like 20 of my favourite DB songs, but besides EDT, they don't have another album I like listening to start-to-finish (I know a lot of people hate that it sounds like Pantera, but I also really like PEM)

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Frank Booth
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 8:56 am 
 

Dimmu was never the same after ICS Vortex left, though they had been going downhill for a while before that.

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matras
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Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:01 am
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Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 9:26 am 
 

Calling CoF the "Six Feet Under of black metal" and say that they're more famous for their controversies (a t-shirt) than their music, must be the absolute worst take I've seen regarding metal in a long while.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 9:41 am 
 

Cradle of Filth isn't something I'm always in the mood for but they're seriously impressive on the classic albums anyway. Dusk and Her Embrace and Cruelty have complex, interesting writing going on.

Dimmu is one of the worst bands I ever heard so I'd never pick them in any scenario. Just so fucking awful. I avoided Cradle for years because of this comparison between the two, but yeah they are nothing alike and I'm not sure why they always got compared, except that both had keys and black metal elements.
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Space_alligator
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 9:49 am 
 

I feel like CoF are more comfortable with their sound and position in the musical landscape, whereas Dimmu seem to be somewhat tensioned between living up to Norwegian black metal ideals/sound and the more commercial and symphonic aspects of the music.
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Kutulu
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 7:39 pm 
 

I'd take Dimmu's EDT through DCA period over anything else done by either band. But I've never liked Cradle and early and later Dimmu is pretty bad.
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Eradicatedseraphim
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Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 5:42 am
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 7:41 pm 
 

Cradle's Songwriting is just flat out superior IMO, and Dimmu aren't bad by any means I'd say Enthrone is still one of the best Norwegian black metal albums I've heard but in terms of influence, sales, and cross cultural appeal Cradle are just beyond them. I don't think Dimmu have as many layers especially in comparison to something like Midian
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Gravetemplar
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 7:47 pm 
 

Cradle have aged better. They had a few really bad albums but the later ones are kind of cool. Dimmu on the other hand haven't released anything remotely good in ages.

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Acrobat
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Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:53 am
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 8:20 pm 
 

It took me a long time, but I'd say Dusk and Her Embrace and Cruelty... are two of the best metal albums around. What really gets me is the "bandsmanship" of those albums; everyone shines collectively and it's incredibly well-honed, well-arranged and impeccably written. Furthermore, they're definitely guitarist's albums - but not in the obvious "loads of solos" way. Evocative, fantastic stuff.

Dimmu? They're alright. Stormblast is a nice, rainy melancholic album. The debut is underpowered and weak. The 3rd one was - I guess - something new in black metal at the time and certainly interesting, but it lacks a bit of depth or really convincing performances. After that, it gets more bombastic, which is never my favourite characteristic. They managed to take Cradle's excellent drummer but they never utilised him as effectively as COF did. I dunno, they're not really a world class band, I'd say.
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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 7:11 am 
 

I was never a huge fan of either (prefer spinoff Old Man's Child to bother for example), but I do like DB's late 90s/early 00s albums better than anything I've heard from CoF, who never clicked for me.

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syx
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Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 6:18 pm
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 11:51 am 
 

I’ve always preferred Cradle to Dimmu, both are great bands that have released masterpieces but cradle have more great records and I’ve seen more incredible cradle shows than dimmu. Over the last 16/17 years I’ve seen both bands 5/6 times at gigs and festivals and cradle have been better Dimmu haven’t seemed to come back from their bad period that started after Death Cult Armageddon.

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Xytras71
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Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:57 am
Posts: 373
Location: Toronto, Canada
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 12:07 pm 
 

Dimmu easily...just based on a number of albums that "clicked" with me. As for CoF, other than "Principle of Evil" and "Vampire" EP, I absolutely barely can stand anything they've released since.

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Durag
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Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:51 pm
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Location: Republic Of Ireland
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 12:40 pm 
 

Cradle of filth fairly easily for me. Cruelty and the beast is just a masterpiece imo, so much variety, emotion, atmosphere and the overarching theme and concept is just perfectly executed. I actually think the rather poor production adds to the atmosphere, the thinny sound almost places you in the the castle.

Principle, Vempire and Dusk are not far off it either. Midian spelled the beginning of the end for me but I still enjoy most of that album.

Dimmu Borgir I liked up until Spiritual Black Dimensions but they were really nothing more than a run of the mill symphonic black metal band with some catchy melodies. Their songs and riffs are way more straightforward and simpler than COF.

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mocata9
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Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 7:56 pm
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 4:16 pm 
 

I would have to go with Cradle of Filth. I do have some Dimmu Borgir albums, but I have never really gotten heavily into that band, for one reason or another. Simply put, I do kind of like some of Dimmu Borgir, but I rarely actually listen to the band. Cradle of Filth, on the other hand, I did really enjoy for some years (and do still enjoy the earlier releases), but to me, the albums started to seem less inspired and little poppier or mainstream-sounding. Principle of Evil Made Flesh is excellent, as is Vempire, Dusk and Her Embrace, and Cruelty and the Beast. I think it was after that where the band's musical direction shifted slightly, going in that poppier vein. I don't think the musical chairs line-up changes help, either.

Dimmu Borgir also strives to look so black metal sometimes that it is absurd. There are pictures of the band with so many spikes and such that it is comical (I think the specific ones I am thinking of are from the Death Cult Armageddon era). Of course, Cradle has dressed in wacky ways too, but it isn't as black metalish, in my opinion and it seems to fit in with the goth aspect of the band. Although Dani has really had some butt-ugly makeup designs in more recent years. Also, the Cradle guys all seem to have a good sense of humor (or humour, since they are Brits) and don't seem to take themselves overly seriously. The home videos from Cradle were a lot of fun to watch. Some of it is admittedly a bit juvenile, but it is still fun. Plus, the band did put on a good show, at least when I saw Cradle. I have actually seen Dimmu live two or three times (always because the band was touring with another band I wanted to see), but none of those really stand out in my mind.

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HeavenDuff
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Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
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Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 6:21 pm 
 

I never really got into either. But I also never hated either. In hindsight, I think Cradle of Filth were a bit more consistent, but I liked Dimmu Borgir's style better. However, I always wished I liked Dimmu Borgir better. I like the theatrical elements, the symphonic elements and everything, but everytime I listen to Dimmu Borgir, I have the urge to listen to Arcturus, Sigh or Solefald, for these bands always seemed to do everything Dimmu Borgir does but better. Dimmu were very popular and they always held back a little too much on the more avant-garde elements of their music, and focused on cheesy spooky stuff a little too much for my tastes.

Thy Shrine wrote:
Never understood the comparison at all, they never even remotely sounded the same


Both formed in the 90's.
Both released midly well-received black metal records in the mid-90's.
Both changed their style a lot in the late 90's and early 2000's and reached commercial success beyond the boundaries of the metal community.
Both were extremely popular in the goth subculture in the 2000's.
Both were featured in mainstream pop culture, be it in movies, tv shows, etc.
Both were disavowed and ridiculed by metalheads for a long time to be eventually embraced again by the community and respected for their contribution.

So yes, they are very different, but if you were a teenager during the 2000's, they were often brought up in the same conversations and were popular among the same people, so the comparison became inevitable.

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LithoJazzoSphere
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:11 pm
Posts: 2043
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 9:50 pm 
 

Durag wrote:
Dimmu Borgir I liked up until Spiritual Black Dimensions but they were really nothing more than a run of the mill symphonic black metal band with some catchy melodies.


How many run of the mill symphonic black metal bands actually recorded albums with orchestras? That alone sets them apart. My complaints are more for heavier riffing (which Galder accomplished more in Old Man's Child), that I wish they made more use of ICS Vortex, and it would have been nice if Mustis would have been employed more effectively, particularly with his piano abilities.

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jimbies
Noose Springsteen

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:52 pm
Posts: 3219
Location: Ontario, Canada
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 8:47 am 
 

One thing that has gone unmentioned in this thread thus far is the brilliance of Dani's lyrics (most of the time). Leaps and bounds beyond anything Dimmu ever did.

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Curious_dead
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts: 659
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 9:26 am 
 

I prefer CoF. I like most of their material, I think the only weaker spots are Thorno and Manticore. I don't care all that much about Dimmu's disco, their albums (especially later one) have a lot of fillers. And everytime I saw them live, they butchered Progenies of the Great Apocalypse. Cradle has always been great live, in my experience anyway.

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Zerberus
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Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:29 pm
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Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 9:33 am 
 

I used to be waaay into Dimmu Borgir, up until In Sorte Diaboli I think. Loved the dramatic, over the top and listenable nature of DB. At the same time I sort of enjoyed Cradle of Filth, but on a much more case-by-case basis. Mostly just Damnation and a Day really.

It was mostly Dani Filth's voice that kept me from ever delving too deep in CoF, and I also felt like a lot of their albums had too much filler.
Never really listen to any of them these days though.
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Unorthodox
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Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:08 pm
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 10:32 am 
 

Dimmu Borgir, for sure. I like a few CoF songs here and there but they've never done anything that really sticks out to me. Great lyrics and all, just not my kind of music. Dimmu, on the other hand, has always hit right with me. Stormblast is by far one of my favorite melodic black metal albums, everything up through In Sorte Diaboli were important metal albums to me, particularly in my formative years. Everything after that has been sort of a miss for me, but I don't know if that's much to do with them or just that my tastes have changed a bit. Either way, I listen to Stormblast all the time still, and from time to time will even dig into some of their other stuff. There's not a single CoF album I listen to like that.
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oxwah
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Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:03 pm
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 12:02 pm 
 

Cradle for sure. I've lost interest in both bands for the most part, but Cradle's output up to and including Midian is unique and high quality. Nothing against DB, but I didn't find their best works as memorable. I do like the songs they've done with actual orchestral accompaniment, though. Also, DB's appearance is a bit too costumey to be taken seriously. Not that Cradle is much better, but I still think they pull it off.

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hells_unicorn
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 1:43 pm 
 

I'm almost perfectly split down the middle between the two, though I would argue that Cradle Of Filth has a greater share of solid albums by virtue of being more prolific, and I also find their stylistic approach a bit more diverse and involved when compared against Dimmu. Enthrone Darkness Triumphant was something of a gateway into black metal for me, as was The Principle Of Evil Made Flesh, and I was a bit perplexed at all the hate that they got when I first started frequenting this site (I was in my mid-20s, so I don't think I was as bothered by the hipster wannabe-goths and Hot Topic crowd as everyone else was at the time. I wouldn't say that either band is the best representation of an extreme symphonic metal band, but both have their charms and I still hold the early material of both bands in high regard.
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Waltz_of_Ghouls
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 8:32 pm 
 

Cradle of Filth, by light years, The Principle-Midian run was phenomenal, then there was a dip in quality up until Godspeed, followed by 2 bland records and one of the most awesome comeback ever with Hammer and Cryptoriana.

Riff wise, they were also much more memorable, blending the usual black metal tremolo stuff with influences from Iron Maiden, Mercyful Fate, Sabbath etc. They never were a very riff-centric band, until Paul Allender's comeback where the orchestrations took a backseat in the mid 2000, but they still managed to write highly memorable riffs/melodies. Also, in terms of lyrics, Dani is one of the most phenomenal lyricist in the genre, especially in the 90's. Granted it's a bit unfair for Shagrath, as English is not his mother tongue, but I always found Dimmu's lyrics to be boring run of the mill pseudo deep satanic stuff. One thing I give them is that Mustis wrote awesome symphonic parts.
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Turner
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 11:04 pm 
 

I can't say I'm a huge fan of either band, or that they're even worth comparing beyond being kinda associated with each other in the late 90s as "black metal for goth chicks who'd gotten sick of Type O Negative", but for what it's worth: Dani Filth's lyrics are genuinely really cool, and his theatrics/atmosphere is one of a kind. Plus, CoF is just kinda lumped in with black metal by virtue of being hard to place anywhere else. Dimmu on the other hand just seems more like an accessible version of standard Norweigan bm, albeit with a bit more pizzazz imagery. Dimmu is my pick though, just because it's "safer" than CoF and Mourning Palace is the best damn Enya ripoff I've ever heard.

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InnesI
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 12:35 am 
 

I listened to both bands back in the day and enjoyed them but always felt partial towards Cradle of Filth. They were my first introduction to black metal and held that nostalgic feeling. I still think Dusk... and Her Embrace and Cruelty and the Beast are two of the best albums ever. The run up until, and including, Midian is something I really enjoy. I also really like Hammer of the Witches. I think I've heard all of their releases but many are very forgettable.

For Dimmu Borgir it was always about two albums for me - Spiritual Black Dimensions and Puritanical Euphoric Misanthropia. I also owned Enthrone Darkness Triumphant and while I always liked the songs on that one I felt it didn't work as an album from front to back (I always grew tired of it towards the end). Not sure I've heard all of the Dimmu Borgir albums though. The modern stuff never interested me really.
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Smalley
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 2:47 am 
 

Dimmu, just because I hate Dani's vocals so much.
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MawBTS
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Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:16 am
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 5:23 am 
 

I think Dimmu Borgir is stronger overall. I don't like Dani's vocals/aesthetic/lyrics, it just sounds stupid.

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SladeCraven
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Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 1:51 pm
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 8:01 am 
 

I have to say Cradle. Their music just means more to me. I completely get the turnoff Dani's vocals can be for a lot of folks, all the same. It's a very strange sound that takes some getting used to, but I've found that once I had the ear for it, I loved it. Not to say that he hasn't struggled (particularly live) to pull it off well, but I enjoy it all the same. Plus Cradle have proven that an old dog can indeed learn new tricks. I think Cryptoriana is one of their best albums, easily.

I also enjoy Dimmu, but they get worse and worse with every release. The last whole album of theirs I can listen to with full enjoyment is Puritanical. Beyond that it's just some select songs here and there, though I do think In Sorte Diaboli has many solid tracks. Shagrath just feels very lazy with his approach to the vocals and it doesn't do much for me.
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Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 11:02 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 11:28 am 
 

Dimmu Borgir for me. Their discography has its ups and downs, but I can listen to any of their albums and like what they're doing.

Whereas Cradle of Filth I only really enjoy the Vempire EP, Dusk and Her Embrace, and Cruelty and the Beast. The rest of their discography doesn't do anything for me, and Dani's vocals are just plain annoying most of the time.

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