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~Guest 1215064
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon May 17, 2021 7:24 pm
Posts: 30
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 7:34 pm 
 

Do people like the last two Vader albums?

Personally, I felt they were among their two weakest albums. If I use the MA marking scheme, I would probably give The Empire about 60%. I liked Solitude In Madness a little better, so I would give it around 65%.


I am a little surprised by all the positive reviews. Even The Beast I would give around 70%. I just think their last two full-lengths are rather disappointing compared to Welcome To The Morbid Reich and Tibi Et Igni.

I just think the production is not as good and the songs use lots of recycled and uninspired riffs. They really are a step down from those two great albums I mentioned above.

So, what is the deal? Do people rate these albums highly in their discography? I actually rate them near the bottom.

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CannibalCorpse
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:55 pm
Posts: 493
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 11:46 am 
 

I actually think that "The Beast", "Revelations" and "Impressions in Blood" are their finest works, so I - being the mid-era fetishist I am - do kind of agree with your thoughts. Bad albums there aren't, though.
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ChildClownOutlet
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:52 pm
Posts: 1068
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 11:58 am 
 

Solitude in Madness was a step up from The Empire(a good album as well just not as good as Tibi) I'd rate Modern Vader like this

Tibi
Thy Messenger(Yeah it's an EP but its an amazing one)
Solitude in Madness
Welcome to the Morbid Reich
The Empire

There's no bad Vader album. Stuff like Revelations would be considered lesser but I gave it a couple more spins and enjoyed it a lot more.
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jimbies
Noose Springsteen

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:52 pm
Posts: 3246
Location: Ontario, Canada
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 12:02 pm 
 

I think Tibi is their best full length in a long time.

Nothing has ever come close to The Art Of War EP for me though.

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blackmantram
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:51 pm
Posts: 971
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 12:38 pm 
 

Cannot disagree anymore, their latest two albums are strong contenders for their best albums ever and that's a lot considering how consistent this band is. Also, if i'm not mistaken, solitude in madness received universal praise and it was even included in several AOTY lists, including MA's, so what's the deal? it is you I'm afraid.


Last edited by blackmantram on Tue May 18, 2021 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ace_Rimmer
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:30 am
Posts: 1981
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 12:40 pm 
 

The Empire is just a good album, solid Vader and well worth a listen but not a stand out. I'd give it a 70%

Solituted in Madness on the other hand rips. My favorite Vader in a long time. I'd give it a 85%+. Love the drums, riffs, Peter is great on vocals as always. Very different from Tigi but just as good, more to the point.

The Beast in comparison is very mediocre and easily the worst Vader record. 51% from me. Listenable sure but why when there are much better Vader records to choose from.

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Bishop_Drugsalot
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:42 am
Posts: 620
Location: Purgatory
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 2:40 pm 
 

Not feeling either of them. Tibi et Igni was good 3,5/5. Welcome to the Morbid Reich however fucking slays

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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 8492
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 2:47 pm 
 

I enjoyed Welcome to the Morbid Reich then, and still do. It feels and sounds like an old-school inspired album for Vader, and it has a ton of energy and creative ideas. The Empire, on the contrary, sounded really dragging and blah. I felt pretty bad thinking the band had gone past their prime. I haven't listened to any of the new albums since.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 29654
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 2:50 pm 
 

Morbid Reich and Tibi et Igni are some of the best stuff they've ever done, but Solitude in Madness is a solid, ass kicking listen that doesn't wear out its welcome at only like 30 minutes. Nothing wrong with not living up to their best work.
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praey
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:33 am
Posts: 774
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 4:00 pm 
 

I’m pretty surprised at all the positivity toward Solitude in Madness. I gave it a couple focused listens and thought it was pretty bland, mostly just a lot of short fast songs that weren’t very interesting or memorable. The Empire was definitely superior, not because it was slower and groovier, but because it actually had some notable moments.

That said, I agree that both albums were weaker than Tibi and Morbid Reich. Empire and Solitude felt basic and stripped down compared to the ambition of Tibi and Reich. A stripped down approach isn’t necessarily bad, but to me it felt like Empire and Solitude showed that Vader were more content to just churn out a half-decent batch of songs rather than actually try to match what they accomplished with Tibi and Reich. Empire and Solitude were far from bad, mind you, but I hope their next album shows the band putting more effort in.

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Wrldeatr
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:13 pm
Posts: 255
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 5:07 pm 
 

The Empire is probably my favorite recent Vader album. Solitude in Madness I find rather weak.

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Sokaris
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 2:33 am
Posts: 1177
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 5:20 pm 
 

As said before, there is no bad Vader. There's definitely different tiers of quality though. I thought Empire was among their weakest and that Soltiude in Madness would be somewhere in the upper third of their discography. I'd consider Welcome to the Morbid Reich and specifically Tibi et Igni even higher on my list, speaking to the quality of their recent releases.

I really don't think there's another extreme metal band that has maintained their general high level of quality as long as them.
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~Guest 1215064
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon May 17, 2021 7:24 pm
Posts: 30
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 6:33 pm 
 

Thanks for the replies so far.

I may have been a little harsh with my scoring, but I personally rate "Solitude" and "The Empire" near the bottom of their discography along with "The Beast".

As for the upper tier, I would put "Morbid Reich", "Tibi", "Revelations" and "Impressions in Blood" near the top.

I also really like "Litany" which is a short, punchy album. Certainly in the top 5 full lengths for me.

It is interesting to see so many diverse opinions. It is nothing against the shorter lengths of the last couple of albums, as I actually think many albums are way too long in metal in general.

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~Guest 1215064
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon May 17, 2021 7:24 pm
Posts: 30
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 9:25 pm 
 

Just one more thing. I personally feel that the current drummer is the weakest that they have had. I am not saying that he is a bad drummer. It fact, he is quite good. But I rate Doc, Pavulon and Daray as much better drummers. They were far more intense and creative drummers in my opinion.

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Dandelo
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:08 am
Posts: 1054
Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2021 3:17 pm 
 

Welcome to the Morbid Reich is phenomenal. The one after that didn't grab me at all.

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MRmehman
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:34 pm
Posts: 530
Location: Painted World of Ariamis
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2021 5:54 pm 
 

I liked The Empire. It's meat and potatoes death/thrash done well with a lot of nice riffs. I wouldn't take it over Welcome to the Morbid Reich but I prefer it to 90% of death metal albums released in the last decade or so. Then again, I'm not at all a death metal guy.
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cultofkraken
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:18 am
Posts: 2499
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2021 1:48 am 
 

It’s unreal how strong Vader’s back catalogue is. I’m an old school Vader guy so The Ultimate Incantation is my fav, but I love all their albums and would probably put Welcome and Tibi right behind it, followed by De Profundis, Litany, Back to the Blind, Impressions in Blood, Revelations, Solitude in Madness, The Beast, then The Empire and finally Necropolis… still even their worst isn’t even good but very good.
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Demon Fang
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:42 am
Posts: 172
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2021 4:24 am 
 

The problem with The Empire is that it's from Vader, and especially after two of their best albums since Litany, meat and potatoes near-Necropolis-quality death/thrash was a huge step down. Still better than a good chunk of death/thrash, but only just. Solitude brings most everything back to the forefront, as did the EP preceding it.

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joppek
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:36 am
Posts: 2003
Location: Suomi Finland Perkele
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2021 4:37 am 
 

i like solitude a lot since it's such a litany 2.0 - the short and to the point vader just works better for me than reich or tibi, tho' like many have said, vader is very good even at their weakest
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