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Slater922
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:24 pm
Posts: 823
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:45 pm 
 

Every Black Sabbath album from self-titled to H&H are a classic in one way or another. Even Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die!, while being more of the black sheep of the era, are still unique in their own right. Everything after H&H, however, have been more of a hit or miss. Which albums do you like during the post 1980-era of Black Sabbath? For me, I do enjoy Born Again, Headless Cross, and Dehumanizer.
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77hjrttfred
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:15 pm
Posts: 91
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:50 pm 
 

To be honest quite a few. I think Dehumanizer is the one I like the most.

Headless Cross and Tyr are also pretty good. There is a lot of good stuff in the post HH era.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 29885
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:55 pm 
 

I found things to like in all of them except for Forbidden.
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Ace_Rimmer
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:30 am
Posts: 2079
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:45 pm 
 

Eternal Idol, Tyr, and Dehumanizer are very good to great albums.

Born Again is good.

I haven't heard enough of Headless Cross outside the title cut, which is a great song.

The others I haven't heard enough to comment on. Though I remember having a favorable impression of Cross Purposes a long time ago.

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Nocturnal_Evil
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:00 am
Posts: 50
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:09 pm 
 

Dehumanizer is the big one. Mob Rules is cool too. Outside of those, I haven't touched Sabbath's 80s work.

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Sokaris
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 2:33 am
Posts: 1181
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:15 pm 
 

Never Say Die and Technical Ecstasy aren't even a quarter of the album The Eternal Idol, Tyr or Dehumanizer is.
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Subrick
Metal Strongman

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
Posts: 9832
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:17 pm 
 

I love the Tony Martin-era albums, with the exception of Forbidden. Headless Cross in particular is my overall favorite Sabbath album.
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Ace_Rimmer
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:30 am
Posts: 2079
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:18 pm 
 

Shit I didn't realize post Heaven and Hell, I forgot Mob Rules which is a classic record.

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ChoujuX
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:05 pm
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:37 pm 
 

Dehumanizer is my favorite Sabbath album. Mob Rules is amazing as well, and the Martin albums are pretty sweet. Not really a fan of the others.

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asphaalanx
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:04 am
Posts: 157
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:52 pm 
 

I've found things to like in all of them. Even Forbidden.

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OzzyApu
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:11 am
Posts: 10684
Location: Seattle
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:54 pm 
 

Mob Rules and Headless Cross are the two post-H&H (not including The Devil You Know which for all intents and purposes is a Dio-Sabbath album) that I often revisit. In fact, they have two of my favorite Sabbath songs (Mob Rules' "Falling Off the Edge of the World" and Cross' "When Death Calls"). I haven't heard much past Tyr but I know there are still good albums I have yet to get to.
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Trashy_Rambo
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:04 pm
Posts: 1663
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:07 am 
 

I think all the Dio albums are pretty good at worst. The Devil You Know might be the weakest, but even that's a solid album with a couple of bona fide classics.
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thenoontide
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue May 18, 2021 2:50 pm
Posts: 7
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:50 am 
 

I love all of the post-Heaven and Hell stuff that doesn't include Ozzy (including the oft-maligned Forbidden, which while far from my favorite Sabbath record gets far too much tbh). My top 3 Sabbath records are Headless Cross, Tyr, and Seventh Star... need I say more?

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DoomMetalAlchemist
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:10 am
Posts: 2060
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:03 am 
 

Mob Rules and Dehuamnizer are in my top 6 Sabbath albums. Cross Purposes and Tyr are also really good. I'm less fond of Headless Cross, Eternal Idol, Born Again, and Forbidden, but they're good as well. Seventh Star kinda sucks and The Devil You Know and 13 are ok.

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Yuli Ban
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:07 am
Posts: 167
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:41 am 
 

Mob Rules is better than Heaven and Hell to my ears. I know this is a controversial opinion and that it's usually considered borderline Heaven and Hell B-sides, but I don't know. Maybe it's my contrasting opinions over their titular songs. I don't like "Heaven and Hell." It feels like a prototype "Holy Diver", even sharing the same trotting rhythm that I feel worked a lot better on the latter. Whereas I think "The Mob Rules" is one of Sabbath's best tracks. It's just pure, raw, badass heavy metal with no flourishes or embellishments.

And I'm fairly sure there's fairly common consensus that Dehumanizer is on par with Classic Sabbath and should've been the follow-up to Mob Rules as some infernal third act of a devilish trio. After years of decent but not particularly "standout" albums, Dehumanizer is a diamond in the rough.

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raumr
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:11 pm
Posts: 1860
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:58 am 
 

I want to give some love to Seventh Star. It's the odd one out in many ways, but I just love how it's more clearly blues rock oriented. I will worship the monster doom riffs on Paranoid and Master of Reality until I die, but it's also very nice to hear Iommi do these more soulful and mellow songs that emphasizes qualities that are not often valued in Black Sabbath.

It's one of those albums I can enjoy while reading, because it doesn't demand your immediate attention. That can be a bad thing, depending on your outlook.

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lordcatfish
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:44 pm
Posts: 867
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:06 am 
 

Mob Rules is pretty good. I like Seventh Star as well. I feel like I should like the Tony Martin stuff, but every time I put an album on my mind wanders. Some good songs there but as albums they just don't engage me enough. The latter Dio albums are OK but tend to drag a bit. Born Again doesn't work for me.
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DeadKid
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:51 am
Posts: 301
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:55 am 
 

I particularly like 13, and Mob Rules is close to Heaven and Hell for me. The Devil You Know is pretty good too. All better than the late 70s albums with Ozzy I reckon. I never found much to like in Dehumanizer either, maybe it's the production.

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MetlaNZ
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:45 pm
Posts: 1064
Location: Lost in Necropolis
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:09 am 
 

asphaalanx wrote:
I've found things to like in all of them. Even Forbidden.

I agree. If I remember correctly the post Mob Rules albums were not received particularly well at the time in the press or with metal fans in general. Doomswords thanks list on their first album mentioned Tyr and that prompted me to check that album out (and everything else on that list that I wasn't already aware of!), absolutely loved it and that got me checking out the post Born Again (great album and love its cover) albums and I like or love em all. Some of those albums are in dire need of the reissue treatment.

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NoSoup4you22
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:36 pm
Posts: 29
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:15 am 
 

Tyr is the best Sabbath album, I don't care.

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LordStenhammar
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:46 am
Posts: 2418
Location: The 9th Circle of Hollola
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:44 am 
 

Mob Rules and Headless Cross are amazing albums. Eternal Idol and Dehumanizer aren't bad either. I'm still to get some of their albums like Born Again, Tyr and The Devil You Know, so there might be more good stuff I've not heard.

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Spiner202
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 3:32 pm
Posts: 2313
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:47 am 
 

lordcatfish wrote:
Mob Rules is pretty good. I like Seventh Star as well. I feel like I should like the Tony Martin stuff, but every time I put an album on my mind wanders. Some good songs there but as albums they just don't engage me enough. The latter Dio albums are OK but tend to drag a bit. Born Again doesn't work for me.

Seventh Star is excellent. It feels like a bit of a jam album at times too. It also sort of reminds me of Yngwie's work over the next few years because there are some more chilled out moments and I think Yngwie would do this kind of thing on his 88-92 records.

As for the other albums, Mob Rules is excellent, and I like Born Again too. I've only heard a couple of the Tony Martin records, but they haven't grabbed me. I'll still buy the ones I'm missing if I come across them. Dehumanizer is ok, but a bit doomy for me. 13 sounds like classic Sabbath, so even if it's not as good as the originals, I like it.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 29885
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:50 am 
 

I forgot about 13. That one sucks too. Only weak Sabbath albums are Never Say Die, Forbidden and 13 by my estimation and that means they have a huge win streak otherwise.

Born Again is excellent - never got why that one got panned.
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jimbies
Noose Springsteen

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:52 pm
Posts: 3301
Location: Ontario, Canada
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:26 am 
 

I really like The Eternal Idol and Headless Cross, however, I think there is filler on both. Could make one of the best Sabbath albums if you took the best songs from each and made one 10 song LP.

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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 6345
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:01 am 
 

I like Tyr and Dehumanizer a lot; the former because of its majestic, epic quality and the latter because it marked a return of Iommi's skullcrushing RIFFS.

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RainyTheBusinessPerson
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:50 pm
Posts: 63
Location: Southern Hemisphere
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:04 am 
 

I'm one of those who enjoy every single album Black Sabbath put out (including the Heaven & Hell band, which is really just Sabbath with another name), I can't say I dislike any of them. I like some more than others, but I overall like all of them, every single album has at least a good amount of tracks I think are great, and at worst just "okay".

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Cosmic_Equilibrium
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:03 pm
Posts: 503
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:16 am 
 

Mob Rules is the equal of H&H IMO and Dehumanizer is one of the best albums of their career and the heaviest thing put out under the Sabbath name since 1975.

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An Ferbasach
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 11:43 pm
Posts: 20
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:17 pm 
 

Mob Rules is a great album (The Sign of the Southern Cross & Falling Off the Edge of the World being top level Sabbath), Dehumanizer and the Devil You Know are both good consistent albums with a few stand out tracks.

I could never get into the Tony Martin albums. They're not bad but they just don't warrant regular listening, for me.

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Yuli Ban
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:07 am
Posts: 167
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:01 pm 
 

13 has some interesting riffs here and there, but all in all I think these two reviews I read years ago summed it up best:

"Black Sabbath's Death Magnetic"
and
"Black Sabbath trying to be Black Sabbath™"

It's not a bad album, but it does feel like a trad-doom metal album meant for a VH1 Classic viewer or Avenged Sevenfold fan who's never even heard the term before. It's what Black Sabbath is "supposed" to sound like.


Last edited by Yuli Ban on Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Oxenkiller
Veteran

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:42 am
Posts: 2986
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:04 pm 
 

Mob Rules and Heaven and Hell can be linked together as the best of the Dio era and are equally as good in my opinion; I think the question really ought to be "Which post- Mob Rules Sabbath albums do you like." Because it was after Mob Rules that the band became somewhat unstable, switching singers as often as most people switch underwears, and the quality was a bit uneven. "Dehumanizer" and "13" were both okay, but not quite as good as any of their classic stuff.

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An Ferbasach
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 11:43 pm
Posts: 20
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:27 pm 
 

Oxenkiller wrote:
Mob Rules and Heaven and Hell can be linked together as the best of the Dio era and are equally as good in my opinion; I think the question really ought to be "Which post- Mob Rules Sabbath albums do you like." Because it was after Mob Rules that the band became somewhat unstable, switching singers as often as most people switch underwears, and the quality was a bit uneven. "Dehumanizer" and "13" were both okay, but not quite as good as any of their classic stuff.

Yes, the "post-Heaven and Hell" aspect of the question confused me slightly. I wonder if there's anyone here who likes Heaven and Hell but doesn't like Mob Rules (or the other way around)? To me, they've always seemed to sit together nicely as companion pieces.

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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 6345
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:28 pm 
 

Oxenkiller wrote:
Yes, the "post-Heaven and Hell" aspect of the question confused me slightly. I wonder if there's anyone here who likes Heaven and Hell but doesn't like Mob Rules (or the other way around)? To me, they've always seemed to sit together nicely as companion pieces.


I like the former quite a bit, but always thought the latter lacked some vision. On one hand, it shares plenty of similarities to H&H, on the other hand I do get the idea it was partially meant to be a heavier record, but it doesn't really succeed as either kind of record IMO.

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HeavenDuff
Veteran

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 2559
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:13 pm 
 

raumr wrote:
I want to give some love to Seventh Star. It's the odd one out in many ways, but I just love how it's more clearly blues rock oriented. I will worship the monster doom riffs on Paranoid and Master of Reality until I die, but it's also very nice to hear Iommi do these more soulful and mellow songs that emphasizes qualities that are not often valued in Black Sabbath.

It's one of those albums I can enjoy while reading, because it doesn't demand your immediate attention. That can be a bad thing, depending on your outlook.


You probably know that Seventh Star is actually a Iommi solo album that was released under Black Sabbath's name for legal reasons. This is probably why it's so different from what Sabbath usually did at that time.

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Gravetemplar
Veteran

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
Posts: 2784
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:14 pm 
 

colin040 wrote:
Oxenkiller wrote:
Yes, the "post-Heaven and Hell" aspect of the question confused me slightly. I wonder if there's anyone here who likes Heaven and Hell but doesn't like Mob Rules (or the other way around)? To me, they've always seemed to sit together nicely as companion pieces.


I like the former quite a bit, but always thought the latter lacked some vision. On one hand, it shares plenty of similarities to H&H, on the other hand I do get the idea it was partially meant to be a heavier record, but it doesn't really succeed as either kind of record IMO.

I'm on the same camp. I like Dehumanizer more than Mob Rules. Not the biggest Black Sabbath fan though.

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Required Fields
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:32 pm
Posts: 891
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:02 pm 
 

I like almost all of them.

I thought most people loved Mob Rules. I think both that and Dehumanizer are great. Heaven and Hell is my favorite Dio-era Sabbath release, but Dehumanizer is definitely the heaviest.

I don't like what I've heard off of Seventh Star, although I'm aware it was actually not intended to be a Black Sabbath album at first.

A lot of people trash the Tony Martin-era of the band, but I really like it, apart from Forbidden. Forbidden is for the most part forgettable, but I think "Kiss of Death" is a good song. (Does anyone else with a negative view on the album agree with me on that at least?)

The best Martin-era album, in my opinion, is Headless Cross.
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77hjrttfred
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:15 pm
Posts: 91
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:45 pm 
 

Quote:
Does anyone else with a negative view on the album agree with me on that at least?


I agree. I think it is the best song on that album. Otherwise, it is a weak album in my opinion.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 29885
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:48 pm 
 

Both Forbidden and Never Say Die just had the feel that the band you were hearing really hated what they were doing and didn't want to be there, which, from Iommi's biography, seemed to be somewhat true.
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idunnosomename
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:47 pm
Posts: 495
Location: England
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:20 pm 
 

I love all the Tony Martin albums as well as Dehumanizer. Forbidden gets a fair-game to hate it because the band (who are still alive) pan it, but the recording was such a bad experience for them no wonder they have bad memories. Just because the artist doesn't like something doesn't mean it's bad. Genuinely there are lots of great moments on it.

13 I just can't stand though, horrible bloated mess. But that's me.

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hells_unicorn
Veteran

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 2667
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:01 pm 
 

Sabbath's career, even when it was whittled down to just Toni Iommi during the Seventh Star era (which is technically an Iommi solo album, but runs parallel stylistically to the Tony Martin era that would follow) had a lot to offer, and I'd actually put everything from the Tony Martin years ahead of both Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die. That said, you can trace a decline in quality with an era winding down and the members of the band in said era losing the desire to work together. As mentioned by Empyreal, both Forbidden (which I actually enjoy despite the lackluster production) and Never Say Die sounded like the band was losing interest in what they were doing. I would add on that "13", in my opinion, was such a lousy album because it was born more out of obligation than any real desire to create (I'd argue that "The Devil You Know" from the brief Heaven And Hell reunion was very much created out of a renewed desire to create and that had Ronnie not died it would have continued for a few more albums at least). Ozzy had been milking the Sabbath brand for decades via the Ozzfest shows and all the others had to show for it were a couple of lousy bonus original songs on the 1998 Reunion live album. Following Bill Ward being alienated from the project and the band deciding to self-plagiarize their early years, the whole thing just fell flat, and the Sabbath name was basically put out of its misery soon after.
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Turner
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:04 am
Posts: 2237
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:04 am 
 

This may be absolute blasphemy, but my favourite Sabbath album is Headless Cross. I of course obligatorily acknowledge and respect the Ozzy era, and I don't mind Heaven and Hell (Mob Rules...eh), but the songwriting and performance on Headless Cross is just amazing. I guess Tony Martin was a product of his time and just got lost in the myriad of JLT-esque singers, and Iommi had that revolving door of 80s who's-who of session musicians unintentionally ruining the reputation of the band at the time, but I still maintain Headless Cross is a masterpiece. I had the CD years ago - I since gave it away and now it's out of print, so woe is me, but it'll always have a place in my heart lol.

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