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SladeCraven
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:51 am 
 

I have seem some pretty strong opinions about this and I'm just curious what the consensus here is. Do you consider bands that use heavy vocal distortion, layering, and other effects to pull off a sound "cheating?" Annal Nathrakh, the Filosifem album from Burzum, Cradle of Filth, and Dimmu Borgir all come to mind as prominent examples, but there are plenty of others.

I personally don't care one way or the other unless it reaches a point where it's tedious and feels unnecessary. If it fits the music, go for it. I think there are plenty examples of bands that have strong vocalists but still use layering in the studio to achieve an effect on an album that they don't necessarily replicate live, (Cannibal Corpse, Deicide, Behemoth, Septicflesh), but they're still able to perform well live. The only thing that becomes annoying to me is when a band is so reliant on these tools on albums that when you see them live, they're quite literally incapable of performing the songs in the way that we're used to hearing them to any meaningful degree. Obviously a studio recording is a completely different situation versus a life performance as the band is able to re-record, tweak, master, and perfect the sound they're going for to the tenth degree when recording, but I still don't think a band should be completely incapable of sounding even remotely the same live. Is that an unreasonable expectation?
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In_Zane
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:15 am 
 

Nah, I don't mind it that much - unless its used on every song, all the time.

I'd probaby completely ignore a band if they couldn't growl, but instead used a program creating it for them, however.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:18 am 
 

If they still sound good and are doing memorable vocal lines I couldn't give a shit. Occasionally some singers will pile on too many layers or something, but there are also plenty of times when layering can be really great - i.e. some of the better Blind Guardian stuff. It's all down to a case by case thing. If someone like Ian Gillan needs to use effects to get these newer Deep Purple albums done, I don't mind; he sounds good anyway.
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SladeCraven
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:24 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:
If they still sound good and are doing memorable vocal lines I couldn't give a shit. Occasionally some singers will pile on too many layers or something, but there are also plenty of times when layering can be really great - i.e. some of the better Blind Guardian stuff. It's all down to a case by case thing. If someone like Ian Gillan needs to use effects to get these newer Deep Purple albums done, I don't mind; he sounds good anyway.

Blind Guardian is an excellent example of layering that's done really well. The first time I heard "Battlefield" I was in awe. It was like hearing Queen for the first time but with far more of a punch.
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matras
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:26 am 
 

I'm in the camp of "it's absolutely not cheating". People use effects on the other instruments so why not use them on vocals if it gets you the sound/effect you want? If you want to use distortion, pitch-shifting and run that through a flanger pedal, go for it if that's your artistic vision. If it sounds good is another issue.

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SladeCraven
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:34 am 
 

matras wrote:
I'm in the camp of "it's absolutely not cheating". People use effects on the other instruments so why not use them on vocals if it gets you the sound/effect you want? If you want to use distortion, pitch-shifting and run that through a flanger pedal, go for it if that's your artistic vision. If it sounds good is another issue.

I tend to be in this camp as well. I think it's a bit of a weird pride thing when it comes to being able to do vocals (particularly extreme ones) "naturally." To a point, of course. There are definitely times when the overuse of effects irk me, but it's usually just because I want to hear something similar to what I do on the studio recording and not get something completely different (in a bad way) live.
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jimbies
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:01 am 
 

Not in the least. It's the exact same idea as a guitar pedal, just altering the sound of your instrument.

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Gravetemplar
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:23 am 
 

Is using electric instruments cheating? Should music only be played live with instruments made out of animal bladders?

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BastardHead
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:24 am 
 

To address the more specific question in the OP, there can definitely be a lost element in a live setting if the vocalist in question layers over themselves a bazillion times in studio, but it's never been a deal breaker for me. Obviously Glen Benton can only do either his growls or shrieks one at a time when onstage instead of doubling up like he does 90% of the time on record, but they still tore the roof off the place when I saw em. Yeah Nergal only possesses one throat in real life and can't double up on his screams forty times but Behemoth is still powerful live. Hell, like was mentioned, Hansi is basically the ur-example of excessive layering, with post-90s Blind Guardian basically being "Hansi featuring The Choir of One Thousand Other Hansis" that should sound absolutely piddly on stage, but in my experience, it never matters because in their case, the crowd fills in as the choir. Does it sound as good as on record when it's ten thousand different drunk guys singing in three different keys? Of course not, but you'll fuckin feel a million feet tall when you and ten thousand different people are all shouting VALHAAAALAAAAA at the same time.

As for the broader question of "is it cheating at all", no, obviously not. Manipulating your voice in the studio might be seen as a huge breach of DIY etiquette but ultimately who gives a fuck, the point is to make your music sound as good as you can. Sometimes (arguably oftentimes) a more raw, naked performance with no layers or trickery will suit an album perfectly, but do you need everything to sound bigger? Fuckin' go for it. I remember an Extremely Minor Discourse ages ago about whether or not it was bad that Frank Mullen cupped the mic on Effigy of the Forgotten. On one hand I kinda understand, because there is a clear, obvious difference in his vocals after Suffocation's first album. On the other hand, he sounds his absolute best on Effigy. I don't care if he sounds like a raging hellbeast when he's at the grocery store, I care if he sounds like that on record, and if placing his hands a certain way helps him achieve that then why stop him?

tl;dr - Unless you're using auto tune to the effect of 90s Cher, I really don't care for the same reason I don't care about guitars sounding different when the amp is off.
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FirebathDan
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:35 am 
 

In the studio, no. Romanticizing a bit, albums are meant to be the permanent document representing the creation of art, and artists have to do what they have to do to see their artistic creation to a satisfactory end.

Live, it only veers towards “cheating” when pre-taped backing tracks are employed. Don’t try and tell me one person opening their mouth produces the sound of 3, or 5, or however many people. At least try and have the other musicians on stage cover some of the backing vocal layers.
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SladeCraven
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:40 am 
 

FirebathDan wrote:
In the studio, no. Romanticizing a bit, albums are meant to be the permanent document representing the creation of art, and artists have to do what they have to do to see their artistic creation to a satisfactory end.

Live, it only veers towards “cheating” when pre-taped backing tracks are employed. Don’t try and tell me one person opening their mouth produces the sound of 3, or 5, or however many people. At least try and have the other musicians on stage cover some of the backing vocal layers.

I definitely appreciate seeing the other musicians helping with backing vocals live. I've always enjoyed that about Nile. Obviously its a bit of a different scenario since Karl and Dallas have historically alternated certain vocal parts, but it still makes for a more interesting, better sounding live show as opposed to Dallas trying to do everything himself. He is arguably the stronger vocalist, but still.

I don't mind backing tracks to a point (if there are symphonic elements or something in particular) but vocal backing tracks can be a bit strange, particularly if god forbid the vocalist is a bit off. Then it sticks out something awful.
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In_Zane
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:19 am 
 

SladeCraven wrote:
but vocal backing tracks can be a bit strange, particularly if god forbid the vocalist is a bit off. Then it sticks out something awful.


Like Vince Neil? :D
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Wrldeatr
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:12 pm 
 

Not cheating as such. I mean, not sure to what extend studio wizardry can make a shitty vocalist sound good. My guess is not a whole lot. But how much of that wizardry is unnecessary, pointless, and can make something sound too processed? Some layering is necessary, just as guitar double-tracking is necessary otherwise an album would sound thin and like crap.

Yeah, the problem is with shitty vocalists whose vocals collapse halfway into the first song of the first show of every tour (In Flames guy).

Does anyone use Auto-Tune in metal? That would be cheating, and again unnecessary.

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wone21r
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:09 pm 
 

I always found the concept of 'cheating' to be bizarre, given that there are no rules to break. Poor live performances is a valid concern, but not all bands perform live and more so than that, I expect a song to be slightly different compared to a recording. Besides, poor live performances aren't tied to a recording style - shit live bands don't needayered vocals to be shit live bands.

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wraithlike
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:27 pm 
 

absolutely not. you do whatever it takes to get the sound you want, nothing should be off limits (maybe save for harming another person or animal).

wone21r wrote:
I always found the concept of 'cheating' to be bizarre, given that there are no rules to break. Poor live performances is a valid concern, but not all bands perform live and more so than that, I expect a song to be slightly different compared to a recording. Besides, poor live performances aren't tied to a recording style - shit live bands don't needayered vocals to be shit live bands.

"Music is not a track and field event".


very well said. doesn't make any sense to talk about cheating in music production.

whether or not you like layered vocals/effects on vocals, it shouldn't be a question of 'is this cheating?' it just doesn't make any sense

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Ilwhyan
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:05 pm 
 

Dubbing vocals has been an industry standard for so long that listeners can't even tell when it's being done anymore. Bigger, more mainstream bands tend to replicate it live with backing tracks, but metal bands tend to stick to as much authenticity as they can - whatever that means - and usually will just have a different vocals sound for live shows.

I've always thought of metal live shows as a different medium than album. It's not feasible to do many of those standard studio production techniques that give albums massive sounds, but at the same time, the intimacy and almost religious communal feel of the metal performances is not possible to replicate in recorded format.
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Hexenmacht46290
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:58 pm 
 

As long as it’s not backing tracks. Putting a reverb pedal downstream of you microphone is fine. But if you need it too much, like pornogrind vocals, that’s lame. Using fuzz or flanger or delay pedals, on bass or guitar, or putting some more extreme effect on vocals, as a momentary accent, is true. But having your actual vocal style come from effects, is false, like lip synching, or not touching your guitar, while a backing track plays. I have more respect for bands where you just use multiple vocalists, and can pull it off live. Even better, when they all play instruments.
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hells_unicorn
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:13 pm 
 

I couldn't care less, I even occasionally like autotune when it's used strategically, like the first album by the Russian power metal band Ghosthill. Any effect can sound good or bad depending on how it is employed and as long as it isn't over-used, and I don't have any moral sentiments on the matter, though I may admire a band more if they have multiple vocalists that can stack harmonies live as well as they come off in the studio rather than just relying on backing tracks.
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Pitiless Wanderer
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:33 pm 
 

Layering vocals is one of the most important elements of creating music, IMO. It's the same with double tracking guitars. Both make the music come alive.

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doomicus
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:26 pm 
 

No. An artist may use whatever methods they decide best captures their vision and art. There is no cheating in this context, unless, of course, they pull a Milli Vanilli or other similar scam.
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Fearoth
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:27 pm 
 

I don't really care, everything goes as long as it sounds good to my ears. This isn't a competition.

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matras
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:46 am 
 

I'm going out on a limb here, but I actually think that the many of the people in this thread complaining about auto-tune don't really know what it is, and that it's used in the vast majority of recordings post 2000. A comparison I often hear from audio-technicians explaining auto-tune, is that it's like removing "red eye" from photographs. It's not a cheat-button that makes all vocals soaring and great.

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Ilwhyan
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:21 am 
 

matras wrote:
I'm going out on a limb here, but I actually think that the many of the people in this thread complaining about auto-tune don't really know what it is, and that it's used in the vast majority of recordings post 2000. A comparison I often hear from audio-technicians explaining auto-tune, is that it's like removing "red eye" from photographs. It's not a cheat-button that makes all vocals soaring and great.

Exactly. A vocalist that can't hold a key will sound like trash with or without autotune.
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coupdebleus
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:33 am 
 

doomicus wrote:
No. An artist may use whatever methods they decide best captures their vision and art. There is no cheating in this context, unless, of course, they pull a Milli Vanilli or other similar scam.

Pretty much this. The tools are just means to an end, and given that art is (or should be) a form of expression rather than a competition, it's kind of bizarre to think about any of such things as cheating.

With that being said, I'm surprised that growlers that layer their voices on record don't look at pedals as a solution for a similar effect live. Octavers, pitch-shifters, and unisons properly dialed in could be quite cool.
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Metal_On_The_Ascendant
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:35 am 
 

SladeCraven wrote:
FirebathDan wrote:
In the studio, no. Romanticizing a bit, albums are meant to be the permanent document representing the creation of art, and artists have to do what they have to do to see their artistic creation to a satisfactory end.

Live, it only veers towards “cheating” when pre-taped backing tracks are employed. Don’t try and tell me one person opening their mouth produces the sound of 3, or 5, or however many people. At least try and have the other musicians on stage cover some of the backing vocal layers.

I definitely appreciate seeing the other musicians helping with backing vocals live. I've always enjoyed that about Nile. Obviously its a bit of a different scenario since Karl and Dallas have historically alternated certain vocal parts, but it still makes for a more interesting, better sounding live show as opposed to Dallas trying to do everything himself. He is arguably the stronger vocalist, but still.

I don't mind backing tracks to a point (if there are symphonic elements or something in particular) but vocal backing tracks can be a bit strange, particularly if god forbid the vocalist is a bit off. Then it sticks out something awful.


Neurosis' Steve Von Till and Scott Kelly do the alternating vocal thing live beautifully. I also liked that about Nile too.

Regarding the vocals layering thing in general, hasn't it been done since forever? Led Zeppelin's The Song Remains the Same live versions I've seen on YouTube fall short of the studio one though - in general their vocalist couldn't aptly recreate his multi-layered stuff.
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Methuen
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:38 am 
 

Ilwhyan wrote:
matras wrote:
I'm going out on a limb here, but I actually think that the many of the people in this thread complaining about auto-tune don't really know what it is, and that it's used in the vast majority of recordings post 2000. A comparison I often hear from audio-technicians explaining auto-tune, is that it's like removing "red eye" from photographs. It's not a cheat-button that makes all vocals soaring and great.

Exactly. A vocalist that can't hold a key will sound like trash with or without autotune.


The abuse of post-processing really jumps out on the last couple of Delain releases - it's not been done with any great subtley, in a smoothing-over-the-edges way; it's been done in a 'we want to fix pitch and tone with a sledgehammer' and sounds quite artifical as a result. It's a shame, as the singer can really do it, but for some reason while in the studio someone decided to twiddle the knobs too much !

SladeCraven wrote:
I don't mind backing tracks to a point (if there are symphonic elements or something in particular) but vocal backing tracks can be a bit strange, particularly if god forbid the vocalist is a bit off. Then it sticks out something awful.


Yeah, I've seen a couple of bands now with (quite prominent) vocal backing tracks, and it's just.... if I wanted that, I'd stay at home & listen to a KISS live album ? I've also seen Maiden plenty of times, with Bruce's vocals at their worst, and people didn't care - yes he doesn't sound like it's 1984, but the fans don't seem to give a crap.

The symphonic backing tracks can be inadvertently funny though - I don't remember which reviewer on here it was, but they'd pointed out that a modern Nightwish show is basically some chuggy guitars over a backing track, with Tuomas hitting the odd button on his fortress of solitude to make it look like he's playing a full orchestra on a tiny keyboard :lol:
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ChernobylStudios
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:01 am 
 

With a topic so important, we must bring other questions to the table and have a meeting of the minds:

  • Is automation cheating?
  • Is comping a vocal take from 13 different performances cheating?
  • Is punching-in cheating?
  • Is tuning your guitar between every take cheating?
  • Is recording your song on guitar in more than one take cheating?
  • Is using an Evertune bridge cheating?
  • Is using a virtual guitar tuner cheating?
  • Is having your guitarist play the bass parts because the bassist can't cheating?
  • Is it cheating to use a compressor to level out a vocal performance that is too dynamic?
  • What about a compressor to help your snare snap and hit harder? Cheating?
  • Are gang vocals cheating?
  • Is double-tracking guitar cheating?
  • Is quad-tracking guitar cheating?
  • Is adding any plugin or post-processing effect that changes the sound of the recorded instrument in any way cheating?
  • Is it cheating to use a double-bass pedal?
  • Is it cheating to to use amp simulators?
  • Is it cheating to use cabinet impulse responses with real amps?
  • Is it cheating to use Reaper without ever buying it?
  • Is it cheating if I say I've never lost the game?

While you guys argue over those questions—I'll be in the forest carving a musical performance into a bronze disc by hand, because that's the only real and true way to record music.
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SladeCraven
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:14 am 
 

ChernobylStudios wrote:
With a topic so important, we must bring other questions to the table and have a meeting of the minds:

  • Is automation cheating?
  • Is comping a vocal take from 13 different performances cheating?
  • Is punching-in cheating?
  • Is tuning your guitar between every take cheating?
  • Is recording your song on guitar in more than one take cheating?
  • Is using an Evertune bridge cheating?
  • Is using a virtual guitar tuner cheating?
  • Is having your guitarist play the bass parts because the bassist can't cheating?
  • Is it cheating to use a compressor to level out a vocal performance that is too dynamic?
  • What about a compressor to help your snare snap and hit harder? Cheating?
  • Are gang vocals cheating?
  • Is double-tracking guitar cheating?
  • Is quad-tracking guitar cheating?
  • Is adding any plugin or post-processing effect that changes the sound of the recorded instrument in any way cheating?
  • Is it cheating to use a double-bass pedal?
  • Is it cheating to to use amp simulators?
  • Is it cheating to use cabinet impulse responses with real amps?
  • Is it cheating to use Reaper without ever buying it?
  • Is it cheating if I say I've never lost the game?

While you guys argue over those questions—I'll be in the forest carving a musical performance into a bronze disc by hand, because that's the only real and true way to record music.



You do bring up a good point and in that there seems to be a weird double standard when it comes to vocalists being able to use tools to get a specific sound versus other musicians. I have heard people criticize microphone "cupping," layering, over reverb, etc. and get pretty passionate about it. Maybe it's because the instrument is the person's voice so there is some type of weird pride in being able to do it without a lot of assistance? I don't know. The only other instrument I can think of that I've seen get held to a lot of scrutiny is the drums. I have heard people lose their minds over the use of "triggers." I'm not a drummer so I can't say that I fully understand what all that means, but I've definitely heard people get really opinionated about it.
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interstellar_medium
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:49 am 
 

While double-tracking, further layering, compiling the final track from a gazillion takes and pitch correction are ubiquitous, it doesn't mean that every singer _needs_ that... but most often, singers do not get to decide what's happening to their parts in the studio. It's all in the hands of producers, recording engineers, mixing engineers... a whole load of folks who are interested (as, apparently, are the majority of listeners) in the "overall impression" rather than showcasing the singer's capabilities (which means - one track, one take, minimum effects).

Melodyne or Autotune won't help make a bad singer sound particularly good, but comping will, if the mixing engineer is good at what they do. And smart compression will help mask the fact that a singer has laughable breath support.

It's the biggest reason I'm into bootleg live recordings - it's the only way to hear what the singer can really do unaided. Of course there's that issue then that a touring band will necessarily have good nights and bad nights, and even a great singer can have a particularly bad night (and the least lucky will get these immortalised on professional live recordings like a TV broadcast... goodbye, reputation).

ChernobylStudios wrote:
[*]Is it cheating to use Reaper without ever buying it?


Yes.
Cakewalk has been free for quite a while now. Why bother with Reaper?

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Space_alligator
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:07 am 
 

Greg Chandler of Esotoric makes great use of vocals sent through effects in both a live and studio setting. Adds greatly to the atmosphere.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:13 am 
 

Ultimately I don't care that much - If it sounds good, it sounds good regardless of how it was achieved.

Is it cheating... I don't know, if lots of effects were used to achieve something that is ordinarily entirely possible to achieve without effects, then yeah I guess it's cheating. Or at the very least vain and/or lazy, like if you use a pitchshifter to get super low gutturals and then claim you didn't use effects. Intent counts.
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Wrldeatr
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:33 am 
 

matras wrote:
I'm going out on a limb here, but I actually think that the many of the people in this thread complaining about auto-tune don't really know what it is, and that it's used in the vast majority of recordings post 2000. A comparison I often hear from audio-technicians explaining auto-tune, is that it's like removing "red eye" from photographs. It's not a cheat-button that makes all vocals soaring and great.


But it can be used to cheat or "correct" all sorts of issues with vocals. Depends how it's used. I know it's standard for pop production. Still not sure though if it's that wide-spread in metal.

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ShaolinLambKiller
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:03 pm 
 

is using different effects on guitar cheating?

is using reverb on drums cheating?


No, it's not. the performance is still there regardless of the dressing on it. It's still at base level the vocal performance of the artist. This is a terrible question and take esp under the impression if they will ever perform live since more oft than not they won't.
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InnesI
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:08 pm 
 

I love vocal effects. I have ever since I realized all the stuff Guns N' Roses did with their vocals. In general I think vocals need some effects - if they are to dry I usually dislike them. But sure effects can also be used as cheating t make something that didn't sound good sound better with some tweaking.
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hells_unicorn
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:14 pm 
 

ChernobylStudios wrote:
With a topic so important, we must bring other questions to the table and have a meeting of the minds:

  • Is automation cheating?
  • Is comping a vocal take from 13 different performances cheating?
  • Is punching-in cheating?
  • Is tuning your guitar between every take cheating?
  • Is recording your song on guitar in more than one take cheating?
  • Is using an Evertune bridge cheating?
  • Is using a virtual guitar tuner cheating?
  • Is having your guitarist play the bass parts because the bassist can't cheating?
  • Is it cheating to use a compressor to level out a vocal performance that is too dynamic?
  • What about a compressor to help your snare snap and hit harder? Cheating?
  • Are gang vocals cheating?
  • Is double-tracking guitar cheating?
  • Is quad-tracking guitar cheating?
  • Is adding any plugin or post-processing effect that changes the sound of the recorded instrument in any way cheating?
  • Is it cheating to use a double-bass pedal?
  • Is it cheating to to use amp simulators?
  • Is it cheating to use cabinet impulse responses with real amps?
  • Is it cheating to use Reaper without ever buying it?
  • Is it cheating if I say I've never lost the game?

While you guys argue over those questions—I'll be in the forest carving a musical performance into a bronze disc by hand, because that's the only real and true way to record music.


The short answer is none of those things are cheating, although I would argue that everybody should pay for studio software as that money will help to further improve production practices, especially if the money is going directly to the developer of the software and they are currently researching further improvements on their product. Frankly, people who think that vocal layering or double-tracking guitars is a form of cheating are not really worth discussing things with, as they probably have no idea how a recording studio actually works.
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pressingtoplead13
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:37 pm 
 

Definitely not cheating. I like a wide array of death metal vocals that have had effects on them. From the crazy layering of Nergal on Demigod, to the over the top pitchshifting of a band like Rompeprop i can enjoy them all as long as the music is good and the vocal lines got some good hooks. I will admit though it is impressive when you see some of the vocalists do their vocals without effects and plenty of power. I remember A.J. Magana showing me a video and you could hear the power of his voice even without the mic, same can be said for Alex Terrible.

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SladeCraven
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:50 pm 
 

ShaolinLambKiller wrote:
is using different effects on guitar cheating?

is using reverb on drums cheating?


No, it's not. the performance is still there regardless of the dressing on it. It's still at base level the vocal performance of the artist. This is a terrible question and take esp under the impression if they will ever perform live since more oft than not they won't.


Easy tiger. I never said it was my take and that I considered it cheating, I asked what other people thought of this "take" because I have encountered it many times.

As for live performances, is it really a fair statement that more often than not bands don't perform live? I don't know if that's true. Maybe not to a large audience, but it's a fairly natural asperation for a band to perform their music in some form or fashion at some point. There are exceptions (obviously) but I have a hard time believing that "more often than not" a band will not perform live, even if its at their neighbor's block party once or twice. I haven't been in the music scene for quite a while, so maybe I'm wrong. Doesn't sound right to me, though.
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Maggot penetration
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:16 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:28 pm 
 

Even if you cheated in one way or another, what if the result was as popular and beloved as Boney M and Milli Vanilli?

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interstellar_medium
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:41 am
Posts: 735
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:52 am 
 

Wrldeatr wrote:
I know it's standard for pop production. Still not sure though if it's that wide-spread in metal.


I remember Jarkko Ahola complaining that when he sang for Dreamtale, the mixing engineer used automatic pitch correction all over the tracks and it "ruined everything". It was in 2005.
A couple of years before that, Pasi Koskinen, the then-Amorphis frontman, stated that no pitch correction or any other extensive editing was used when mixing Amo's Far from the Sun and his own Ajattara albums.
Recently there was that thing with John Cyriis who got accused of crudely overusing pitch correction but maintained his "innocence".

I can't remember anything else of the sort being discussed in interviews or social media, but then, mixing in general isn't really discussed that often with musicians, is it?

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MRmehman
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Location: Painted World of Ariamis
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:18 pm 
 

Yes. We should ban them along with overdubs, guitar effects, drum triggers, bass guitars, amplifiers, keyboards, melody and song structure. I miss when metal was just a bunch of chimps banging stones together in the woods - those were the days!
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