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traxan
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:52 pm
Posts: 1258
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:28 pm 
 

Bingewolf wrote:
That said, none of that debate has anything to do with the topic so moving back to it.... How did mainstream music listeners let Ringo Starr get away with "You're 16, You're Beautiful (And You're Mine)"???


Funny you mention that.. I eat lunch at a nearby restaurant that airs an awful local radio station that plays nothing but old pop hits, so I've heard the same songs a million times, and some of them are inappropriate as hell, particularly "Jessie's Girl" and "Don't You Want Me Baby." And these are pop songs.

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PETERG
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:48 pm
Posts: 238
Location: Greece
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:25 am 
 

Face_your_fear_79 wrote:
Eat me alive and a lesser extant Love Bites from Priest's DOTF.

Although I have no real problem with either track both one them were most probably controversial.

Eat Me Alive certainly was.


Eat me Alive was also featured in PMRC's 15 forbidden song list. Also their album "Stained Class" was considered controversial after the 1965 Nevada incident (lookie here)
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PETERG
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Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:48 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:30 am 
 


collingwood77 wrote:
Excellent comment. Yes, it is the nuance which is needed. I think Christians could learn from reading some of the best Deicide lyrics and some black-metallers could learn from a sermon or two!


As a faithful believer of Jesus and God, and an avid Bible reader, Deicide is one of my favorite bands. I think that "When Satan Rules his world" is my favorite song.
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PETERG
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:32 am 
 

For me the most controversial song is got to be "Hey man nice shot!" by Filter. It basically talks about how a USA politician who committed suicide by gunpoint on live TV back in the '80s in front of journalists. The video is on the Youtubes and it is disturbing to say the least.
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Last edited by PETERG on Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ball Cupper
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Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:51 pm
Posts: 185
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:57 am 
 

PETERG wrote:
For me the most controversial song is got to be "Hey man nice shot!" by Filter. It basically talks about how a USA politician committed suicide by gunpoint on live TV back in the '80s in front of journalists. The video is on the Youtubes and it is disturbing to say the least.


Was that politician Budd Dwyer? My memory is fuzzy
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DoomMetalAlchemist
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:10 am
Posts: 2097
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:36 am 
 

PETERG wrote:
Face_your_fear_79 wrote:
Eat me alive and a lesser extant Love Bites from Priest's DOTF.

Although I have no real problem with either track both one them were most probably controversial.

Eat Me Alive certainly was.


Eat me Alive was also featured in PMRC's 15 forbidden song list. Also their album "Stained Class" was considered controversial after the 1965 Nevada incident (lookie here)


*1985, not 1965.

Also, am I the only one who thinks the prosecution should've focused on Beyond the Realms of Death (in a devil's advocate kind of way)?

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collingwood77
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:43 pm
Posts: 123
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:22 pm 
 

PETERG wrote:

collingwood77 wrote:
Excellent comment. Yes, it is the nuance which is needed. I think Christians could learn from reading some of the best Deicide lyrics and some black-metallers could learn from a sermon or two!


As a faithful believer of Jesus and God, and an avid Bible reader, Deicide is one of my favorite bands. I think that "When Satan Rules his world" is my favorite song.


I'm aiso a believer. You can tell that Benton had a childhood in the church - it never leaves you even though in his case it is mixed with anger and whining. Some of the best lyrics (and music) I think are on Serpents of the Light album. That line in "Blame it on God" - "you are the one who killed his own Son/ we are the ones you are blaming it on" really got me thinking hard and reading more. Perhaps our theology is wrong or, at least, the way the doctrines are sometimes presented bring us very close to the caricature Benton portrays. Read Steve Chalke and Alan Mann, The Lost Message of Jesus for good discussion on this point in terms of questioning of the penal substitution theory of the atonement.

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collingwood77
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:43 pm
Posts: 123
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:27 pm 
 

PETERG wrote:
Face_your_fear_79 wrote:
Eat me alive and a lesser extant Love Bites from Priest's DOTF.

Although I have no real problem with either track both one them were most probably controversial.

Eat Me Alive certainly was.


Eat me Alive was also featured in PMRC's 15 forbidden song list. Also their album "Stained Class" was considered controversial after the 1965 Nevada incident (lookie here)


It was ironic how those 1980s lyrics which the PMRC made a big fuss about were harmless and tame even by the standards of movies and TV shows of the time. But then, when you go to say 1991 and 1992, you had lyrics on the second and third Cannibal Corpse albums which were deeply shocking and offensive by anyone's standards. Even today, I couldn't bring myself to read a full set of song lyrics for even one track.

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collingwood77
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:43 pm
Posts: 123
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:34 pm 
 

traxan wrote:
Bingewolf wrote:
That said, none of that debate has anything to do with the topic so moving back to it.... How did mainstream music listeners let Ringo Starr get away with "You're 16, You're Beautiful (And You're Mine)"???


Funny you mention that.. I eat lunch at a nearby restaurant that airs an awful local radio station that plays nothing but old pop hits, so I've heard the same songs a million times, and some of them are inappropriate as hell, particularly "Jessie's Girl" and "Don't You Want Me Baby." And these are pop songs.


I just checked out "Jessie's Girl" lyrics again. Aren't they just the thoughts of a frustrated guy who has the hots for his friend's girl? I'm sure most of us have had similar thoughts at some time in the past. I do not know whether it is really unambiguous that he is going to act on his fantasies. It seems a bit like "The Number of the Beast" lyrics, reflecting the dilemma of being confronted with a choice - follow desires or free yourself from guilt. (Although I agree that the guilt aspect doesn't feature openly in the "Jessie's Girl" lyrics unlike in NOTB.)

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Required Fields
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:32 pm
Posts: 925
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:55 pm 
 

I'm slightly surprised no one has mentioned Christian metal bands here.

After all, it seems to be more socially acceptable in metal message boards to admit to liking Arghoslent or NSBM bands than it is to admit to liking someone like Believer, Deliverance, or Living Sacrifice.

I do know that it was requested not to mention NSBM early on in this thread, but would Christian metal bands fit the same criteria? Although it's far more acceptable to be a Christian than a neo-Nazi or National Socialist in reality, but I'm sure you guys here can see where I'm coming from.
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Hexenmacht46290
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:30 pm
Posts: 320
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:01 pm 
 

Required Fields wrote:
I'm slightly surprised no one has mentioned Christian metal bands here.

After all, it seems to be more socially acceptable in metal message boards to admit to liking Arghoslent or NSBM bands than it is to admit to liking someone like Believer, Deliverance, or Living Sacrifice.

I do know that it was requested not to mention NSBM early on in this thread, but would Christian metal bands fit the same criteria? Although it's far more acceptable to be a Christian than a neo-Nazi or National Socialist in reality, but I'm sure you guys here can see where I'm coming from.


I dislike them. I used to be a Christian, and I think my life would’ve been a lot better, had I not been one, in my youth, and had I made some much more rationally selfish choices. I now view religion as a tool, to keep people enslaved.

I don’t want to listen to really religious bands(like Trouble, even though I like the music), but I can overlook some of it. If Black Sabbath and Saint Vitus tell me that I shouldn’t be messing with black magic, because it’s too powerful, and my soul will be damned, I’ll take it as a metaphor. I’ll interpret it as a warning, not to do heroin.
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PETERG
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:48 pm
Posts: 238
Location: Greece
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:33 am 
 

Ball Cupper wrote:
PETERG wrote:
For me the most controversial song is got to be "Hey man nice shot!" by Filter. It basically talks about how a USA politician committed suicide by gunpoint on live TV back in the '80s in front of journalists. The video is on the Youtubes and it is disturbing to say the least.


Was that politician Budd Dwyer? My memory is fuzzy


Yep it was Dwyer. The lyrics of the song are also disturbing.
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PETERG
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:48 pm
Posts: 238
Location: Greece
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:50 am 
 

DoomMetalAlchemist wrote:
PETERG wrote:
Face_your_fear_79 wrote:
Eat me alive and a lesser extant Love Bites from Priest's DOTF.

Although I have no real problem with either track both one them were most probably controversial.

Eat Me Alive certainly was.


Eat me Alive was also featured in PMRC's 15 forbidden song list. Also their album "Stained Class" was considered controversial after the 1965 Nevada incident (lookie here)


*1985, not 1965.

Also, am I the only one who thinks the prosecution should've focused on Beyond the Realms of Death (in a devil's advocate kind of way)?


Yep fucking typos man... :roll:

I think that "Beyond the realms of death" has a more liberating approach to death. As I see on the lyrics it talks about a person who is so fucked up physically that death is a way for him to find peace; not a suicide-themed song.


collingwood77 wrote:
I'm aiso a believer. You can tell that Benton had a childhood in the church - it never leaves you even though in his case it is mixed with anger and whining. Some of the best lyrics (and music) I think are on Serpents of the Light album. That line in "Blame it on God" - "you are the one who killed his own Son/ we are the ones you are blaming it on" really got me thinking hard and reading more. Perhaps our theology is wrong or, at least, the way the doctrines are sometimes presented bring us very close to the caricature Benton portrays. Read Steve Chalke and Alan Mann, The Lost Message of Jesus for good discussion on this point in terms of questioning of the penal substitution theory of the atonement.


Wow that line is really deep! Benton talked in a documentary about how his grandma used to call him "little bastard" for listening to heavy metal. His father once caught him listening to heavy metal and shouted at him something like "TURN THAT SHIT OFF NOW THIS BE DEVIL MUSIC!"

I am also against doctrines for the differences between their representatives are a justification to impose influence and power over the masses. No matter the philosophical differences I do not reckon any difference in the humble faith of a catholic or and orthodox. Benton is spot on here. Christianity - like any other mass religion - is plagued with too many power hungry people in too many influencing places that sometimes even try to alter the scriptures for them to fit in their own interests.
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Aldrahn333
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 7:28 pm
Posts: 268
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:15 am 
 

Required Fields wrote:
I'm slightly surprised no one has mentioned Christian metal bands here.

After all, it seems to be more socially acceptable in metal message boards to admit to liking Arghoslent or NSBM bands than it is to admit to liking someone like Believer, Deliverance, or Living Sacrifice.

I do know that it was requested not to mention NSBM early on in this thread, but would Christian metal bands fit the same criteria? Although it's far more acceptable to be a Christian than a neo-Nazi or National Socialist in reality, but I'm sure you guys here can see where I'm coming from.


I like the nineties Believer and quite a lot, but couldn't care less for their mumbling preoccupation about the rejection of Christ.


Last edited by Aldrahn333 on Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Aldrahn333
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 7:28 pm
Posts: 268
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:17 am 
 

.......

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Cheapsteaks
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 8:02 pm
Posts: 182
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:53 am 
 

I think the only Christian metal lyrics that really made me roll my eyes were

1: A Tourniquet song that yelled something like "Do you really think Mr. Darwin's words and thoughts truly are the last?" as if it's some big GOTCHA to Darwin, who was a Christian.

2: I can't remember the band, I think it was one of the Christian thrash/death bands, but they had a song that compared homosexuality to mental illness that had me tugging my collar awkwardly and making 3 stooges noises. Not a good look gang.
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Twisted_Psychology
Metal freak

Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 8:22 pm
Posts: 5588
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:41 pm 
 

Christian lyrics really only bother me when it's going into anti-abortion, anti-science, and just generally bigoted nonsense. The evangelical stuff tends to be too toothless for me to get offended by it and I find explorations of personal faith genuinely compelling. There's the matter of more niche creationist-themed lyrics, which are as niche as they are hilarious.
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Bingewolf
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:59 pm
Posts: 738
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:13 pm 
 

The Budd Dwyer video was one of the entry points I had to just how gnarly the internet would become in terms of the videos you can find if you go looking for them.

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PETERG
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:48 pm
Posts: 238
Location: Greece
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:22 am 
 

Bingewolf wrote:
The Budd Dwyer video was one of the entry points I had to just how gnarly the internet would become in terms of the videos you can find if you go looking for them.


That and the movie Begotten which was available on Youtube circa 2013-2014 if I remember.
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PETERG
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Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:48 pm
Posts: 238
Location: Greece
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:25 am 
 

Twisted_Psychology wrote:
Christian lyrics really only bother me when it's going into anti-abortion, anti-science, and just generally bigoted nonsense. The evangelical stuff tends to be too toothless for me to get offended by it and I find explorations of personal faith genuinely compelling. There's the matter of more niche creationist-themed lyrics, which are as niche as they are hilarious.



The metalcore band "For Today" had a lot of great lyrics about God, faith and Christianity. To this day it is the only Christian band that I enjoy. Too bad they split up :(

But yeah it is one thing to worship some entity through your music and another to go against the human reason.
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Floodland
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Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:58 am
Posts: 131
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:27 am 
 

I've got something to say, I killed your mother today,
got something to sa-hay, I raped your daughter today,
doesn't matter much to me...
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wraithlike
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:20 pm
Posts: 222
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:59 am 
 

as far as I'm aware, there was never a big stink about it, but Acid Bath had some really racy, provocative lyrics. Had they been bigger and higher profile I think some of that stuff might've generated some controversy

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Required Fields
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:32 pm
Posts: 925
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:02 pm 
 

Twisted_Psychology wrote:
Christian lyrics really only bother me when it's going into anti-abortion, anti-science, and just generally bigoted nonsense. The evangelical stuff tends to be too toothless for me to get offended by it and I find explorations of personal faith genuinely compelling. There's the matter of more niche creationist-themed lyrics, which are as niche as they are hilarious.


I know of some Christians who like many Christian metal bands, but tune out if the lyrics are hateful towards non-Christian types. The ones that are practically like neo-Nazi bands, except the vitriol is towards non-believers instead of Jewish people and blacks.
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AxeCapitol
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:38 pm
Posts: 13
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:42 pm 
 

Twisted_Psychology wrote:
I love me some Type O Negative but they had a whole mess of these. You can pretend that Der Untermensch has some plausible deniability all you want, but the blatant homophobia on I Like Goils and the anti-abortion take on These Three Things are pretty hard to ignore. People seem to forget how hard Peter Steele went into his religious conversion before he died. If he was still alive, he'd probably be straight down the MAGA/Qanon rabbit hole by now.


Pete distanced himself from Der Untermensch and ultimately regretted the song. He claims he was “young, stupid, and very ignorant”.

In later years he was almost hippy like in some of his politics. Hated bush, against Iraq war, pro Palestine (likely to Josh’s chagrin), etc.

I agree with I Like Goils though - very juvenile
Like a beavis and butthead parody.

I don’t think he would have gone full maga either. Most in his inner circle and ex band mates are fairly anti trump

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