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Ill-Starred Son
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Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:52 pm 
 

I know that both Death'n'roll and Black'n'roll are legit sub-genres, but what about grind'n'roll?

I always thought that some of the later, grindier, groovier albums by bands like Convulse and Xysma sounded like grind'n'roll to me, especially albums like Reflections by Convulse, but M.A. just lists one of their styles as Death'n'roll so I guess that's what they hear it as, but to me it sounds different than Death'n'roll by bands like Entombed.

Also, what do you guys think of styles like Death'n'roll and Black'n'roll?

I am personally a big fan of both styles.

Who would you say the originators and first albums of these styles are and what would you say the origins are stylistically?

Entombed is generally mentioned as the first death'n'roll band, probably on Wolverine Blues, and Darkthrone often mentioned as the first Black'n'roll band on their later albums, but would you agree with this?

I guess for Death'n'roll it sounds to me like some kind of mix of death metal and motorhead or basic hard rock structures.

Likewise, for black'n'roll the "roll" influences seem to come from bands like Motorhead, Venom, and some punk bands like The Misfits. I'm not sure if there's ever any real rockabilly or psychobilly influences. Are they ever in there?

What rock or metal bands would you say make up the influences for the "roll" part of the death'n'roll and black'n'roll other than just Motorhead and Venom?

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Kalaratri
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Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:22 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:45 pm 
 

The first band that comes to mind when you say the words grind'n'roll is Blood Duster. I think this album is as good as an example as you'll find of that particular fusion:



Entombed is generally credited with inventing death'n'roll. Other bands like Carcass (on Swansong) also dabbled in it for a time. As far as black'n'roll is concerned, there are quite a few bands out there like Khold, later Satyricon etc. who played something approximating that genre before Darkthrone's crust/heavy/speed metal era from F.O.A.D to The Underground Resistance.

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Ill-Starred Son
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Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
Posts: 1420
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:06 pm 
 

Kalaratri wrote:
The first band that comes to mind when you say the words grind'n'roll is Blood Duster. I think this album is as good as an example as you'll find of that particular fusion:



Entombed is generally credited with inventing death'n'roll. Other bands like Carcass (on Swansong) also dabbled in it for a time. As far as black'n'roll is concerned, there are quite a few bands out there like Khold, later Satyricon etc. who played something approximating that genre before Darkthrone's crust/heavy/speed metal era from F.O.A.D to The Underground Resistance.


Nice! I'd heard of them before but never really checked them out.

So yeah, if anyone has any more examples of stuff like that that would be great, but also in terms of the discussion, which styles of rock or metal and which bands in particular do people think were most influential to the "rock'n'roll" halves of both death'n'roll and black'n'roll?

Obviously Motorhead and Venom come to mind quickly, as do The Misfits to some extent for Black'n'roll but who else?

Obviously black'n'roll has a large crust punk/dbeat influence from bands like Amebix, Disrupt, G.I.S.M., and others, but what else? I mean, at least for black'n'roll it is distinguished as a separate though related sub-genre from blackened crust, so there must be some other influences.

Does anyone hear any actual rockabilly or psychobilly influence on either genre? I can't necessarily say that I do, but I haven't heard all that much of either, just some stuff.

Also, I've listened to Satyricon but can't say I've heard much black'n'roll in there so what albums of theirs in particular would you say are of that style?

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Kalaratri
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:17 pm 
 

Ill-Starred Son wrote:
Also, I've listened to Satyricon but can't say I've heard much black'n'roll in there so what albums of theirs in particular would you say are of that style?


The post-Volcano albums in general are black'n'roll to various degress IMO. Now Diabolical and The Age of Nero are the most blatantly obvious ones but even the self-titled and Deep Calleth Upon Deep are still in the same vein with a pinch of prog added in for flavour.

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Floodland
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Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:58 am
Posts: 189
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:55 pm 
 

Listen to CSSO's Are You Excrement and tell me it does not belong here.
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Ill-Starred Son
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:24 pm 
 

Floodland wrote:
Listen to CSSO's Are You Excrement and tell me it does not belong here.


I have some of their stuff downloaded and they're pretty crazy, even though I haven't heard that particular album.

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Floodland
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Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:58 am
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:25 pm 
 

Ill-Starred Son wrote:
Floodland wrote:
Listen to CSSO's Are You Excrement and tell me it does not belong here.


I have some of their stuff downloaded and they're pretty crazy, even though I haven't heard that particular album.


It's their best. On Morbid Records. Short and fucking sweet.
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Bingewolf
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Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:59 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:40 pm 
 

Now Diabolical is the perfect example of black'n'roll -- It's a definite subgenre. Same for Blood Duster and grind'n'roll. However, there are TONS of sub-genres. It's not quite the same discussion as some of the other genre threads that have popped up. For example, porno-grind is a subgenre...

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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:42 pm 
 

It's not something I've explored very deeply, but I do like some of the experimentation with it by Black Breath, Carcass, Dellamorte, Edge of Sanity, Entombed, and Satyricon.

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Bingewolf
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Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:59 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:55 pm 
 

Black Breath is a great band - and they are definitely a hybrid of black/hardcore/black'n'roll -- really good band.

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collingwood77
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Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:43 pm
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:15 pm 
 

Just out of interest, would you call "Born for Burning" by Bathory black'n'roll?

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Cheapsteaks
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Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 8:02 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:52 pm 
 

I feel like everything I have heard from Death'N'Roll either sounds punkish (Entombed) or goes a more melodic route (Carcass). I guess there could be a third category for stuff like Six Feet Under but that's really just groove metal with some death metal vocals.

On the subject of vocals, I always felt like the vocals for Entombed's death'n'roll's soundedlike something you'd hear in a stoner metal album due to the throaty delivery. I don't know why, possibly because it's more throaty than the growls in their first two albums.
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doomicus
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:34 pm 
 

I'd say a lot of the material put out over the years by RazorBack records would qualify as grind n' roll. Thinking of bands like Blood Freak in particular.
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cultofkraken
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:27 pm 
 

Grind n’ roll sounds like what you’d call Xysma.
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into_the_pit
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:32 pm 
 

you guys should check out pakeni's MCD detergent bubble bath:

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Ill-Starred Son
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Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:50 pm 
 

into_the_pit wrote:
you guys should check out pakeni's MCD detergent bubble bath:



Yup, I have that album and it's excellent.

I agree that with the term "grind'n'roll" the first bands that came to mind were Finnish bands like Xysma, Convulse and Pakeni.

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Floodland
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Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:58 am
Posts: 189
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:22 pm 
 

People, from Israel.
https://www.metal-archives.com/albums/P ... ple/707657
Also, where's the grindcore in Convulse's music exactly?
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Ill-Starred Son
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
Posts: 1420
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:05 pm 
 

Floodland wrote:
People, from Israel.
https://www.metal-archives.com/albums/P ... ple/707657
Also, where's the grindcore in Convulse's music exactly?


While I'd agree that Convulse is more of a death metal band, listen to the album "Reflections". It's very stonerish-groovy death'n'roll type stuff. Now that's not the same thing as grindcore, but there's aspects of it that seem groovy in a way that for some reason does make me think of some grindcore, although I can't specifically point to any. Maybe it's not really a true connection, but it's always just a feeling I had. But yeah, you are right, more death metal and groovy death'n'roll on later albums.

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mirons
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Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 12:59 pm
Posts: 660
Location: Latvia
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:45 am 
 

Mucupurulent is the first one I think of when hearing the term "grind'n'roll".



I agree with the poster who mentioned RazorBack Records as having loads of grind'n'roll; a friend of mine was hooked on their released in the mid-00's and there was indeed quite a lot of that stuff.

I wasn't a fan of death'n'roll for quite a long time but I have discovered liking quite a lot of the stuff in the past few years. Probably because it can actually be quite diverse, depending which styles of rock are mixed with the death metal part; to name some well known examples, Entombed's Wolverine Blues, Carcass' Swansong and Gorefest's Soul Survivor all sound rather different. Black'n'roll can be cool as well, but I find that the line between black/speed/heavy or black/punk/crust and black'n'roll is rather blurry.

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