Encyclopaedia Metallum: The Metal Archives

Message board

* FAQ    * Register   * Login 



Reply to topic
Author Message Previous topic | Next topic
The_Grindcrusher
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:46 pm
Posts: 57
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:35 am 
 

This is something that's made me curious for a while. In my eyes, bands like Death, Carcass, Putrid Pile, and a certain band whose name references corpse's cannibalizing corpses, are just gory slasher movies in audio form, they talk about death, murder, infection, mythical supernatural stuff, just like movies.

Yet, a lot of people I meet who like these movies dislike extreme metal like the bands I mentioned above, even finding them a bit "disgusting".

Now, of course, I know everyone has their music tastes, there's even some extreme metal I don't like, but I find it a bit odd that metal, which has very similar imagery to movies like The Thing, Friday The 13th, and Dawn Of The Dead, is looked more down upon than4 those said movies.
_________________
I Do Not Think, Therefore I Am Not Am.

Top
 Profile  
Rodman
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:15 am
Posts: 682
Location: Sydney, Australia
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:43 am 
 

Because they are totally different artforms.
_________________
https://thephosphorusbombs.bandcamp.com/ - Hardcorethrashpunk from Sydney, Australia. Check out our latest record '...Against You!' - https://open.spotify.com/album/4sO3nrVr ... 5GZXBLuKiQ

Top
 Profile  
Kalaratri
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:22 pm
Posts: 1348
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:52 am 
 

Why is this such a hard concept to grasp? People who don't like extreme metal usually dislike it primarily based on the music, not the lyrical content or imagery used by bands. Liking horror movies that are particularly gory doesn't mean you automatically think death metal sounds good.

Top
 Profile  
Curious_dead
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts: 921
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:57 am 
 

Because it's two widely different media that are consumed very differently?

Top
 Profile  
Opus
Veteran

Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:06 am
Posts: 3377
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:03 am 
 

Why do I dislike gory horror movies, but like extreme metal?
_________________
Do the words Heavy Metal mean anything to you other than buttcore, technical progressive assgrind or the like?
true_death wrote:
You could be listening to Edge of Sanity right now, but you're not!

Top
 Profile  
Metal_On_The_Ascendant
Metalhead

Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 6:38 am
Posts: 1794
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:04 am 
 

I like listening to My Dying Bride and Type O Negative and hearing Aaron Stainthorpe and Peter Steele agonize about women and loss over slow crushing riffs and gothic atmospheres but movies and books with stories set (primarily) in that mold I avoid and would even call LAME.
_________________
Gas_Snake wrote:
....my attention span is not your guinea pig. If even one of your songs exceeds 10 minutes, you're either a fucking genius or you need to self-edit that shit.

Empyreal wrote:
Seems like a pretty reductive way to see art.

Top
 Profile  
MRmehman
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:34 pm
Posts: 640
Location: Painted World of Ariamis
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:44 am 
 

Why do some people dislike oranges, but like apples?
_________________
"He who is tired of Candlemass, is tired of life."

Top
 Profile  
Deathdoom1992
Metalhead

Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 9:19 am
Posts: 429
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:57 am 
 

Kalaratri wrote:
Why is this such a hard concept to grasp? People who don't like extreme metal usually dislike it primarily based on the music, not the lyrical content or imagery used by bands. Liking horror movies that are particularly gory doesn't mean you automatically think death metal sounds good.


This. I'd bet that 99% of the time, people who don't like extreme metal are put off by the extremity of the music and vocals, not the lyrical content. I mean, I don't like goregrind, but it has nothing to do with the lyrics.

Top
 Profile  
InnesI
The Goat Fucker

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:19 pm
Posts: 2001
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:23 am 
 

Because the two aren't mutually inclusive. Just because some bands deal with the same subject matters doesn't mean that you'll appreciate that particular expression. I love extreme metal but dislike gore films. But then again I don't really like gory lyrics either (not because it offends me but because I get nothing from people singing about dismembering bodies - it brings nothing to the table except shock value).
_________________
MA's goat fucker. I've also been called a satanist, communist, right wing, nazi-apologist, fascist, muslim, muslim lover, PC, feminist, neoliberal, boot licker, verbal masturbator and an "absolute baby"! Feel free to add your projection too. :-)

Top
 Profile  
Hexenmacht46290
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:30 pm
Posts: 371
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:39 am 
 


Because they don’t like the music. I like lyrics about fighting with swords, but I don’t listen to power metal. I listen to heavy, stoner, thrash, or doom metal bands, that have those kind of lyrics.

Most of the death metal I like doesn’t even have gore lyrics. I still listen to stuff that does, but I don’t watch slasher movies.
_________________
The only “-isms” you need, are individualism, and GISM.
I like Slayer solos
Spoiler: show
With my weed, I smoke every day
If I'm not high, the hate will escape
I smoke and smoke, stoned as a fuck
Weed is my life, weed is my love…
-John Gallagher

Top
 Profile  
Metal_On_The_Ascendant
Metalhead

Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 6:38 am
Posts: 1794
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:24 pm 
 

I sometimes wonder why people who like "gangsta rap" aren't out there committing violent crimes. Oh wait, that assumption was already made...
_________________
Gas_Snake wrote:
....my attention span is not your guinea pig. If even one of your songs exceeds 10 minutes, you're either a fucking genius or you need to self-edit that shit.

Empyreal wrote:
Seems like a pretty reductive way to see art.

Top
 Profile  
Curious_dead
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts: 921
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:30 pm 
 

Metal_On_The_Ascendant wrote:
I sometimes wonder why people who like "gangsta rap" aren't out there committing violent crimes. Oh wait, that assumption was already made...


But we all know everyone who listens to gangsta rap only watch Scarface, and no other movie whatsoever.

Right?

Top
 Profile  
orphy
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 11:24 pm
Posts: 258
Location: Edmonton, Canada
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:36 pm 
 

Heh, I barely even like movies! Jokes aside, I just find it hard to find the time to commit to watching a movie, where as I can listen to music when I'm doing things on the computer, cleaning the house, driving/walking around. I certainly have some favourites, but I'm usually not the one in my house to suggest watching a movie.
_________________
orphy.net - reviews, recordings, metal, punk.

Top
 Profile  
FLIPPITYFLOOP
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:09 pm
Posts: 1015
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:40 pm 
 

Huh?

Top
 Profile  
Slater922
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:24 pm
Posts: 1017
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:12 pm 
 

I think I saw a thread similar to this last year.

But to answer the question, I'm not sure why you should like one but not the other. If anything, I've seen plenty of people who like horror movies as well as heavy metal. In fact, there's a subreddit titled r/SatansLair that is dedicated to both horror movies and metal.
_________________
Under a serpent sun... we shall all live as one! - "Under a Serpent Sun" by At The Gates
Check out my reviews

Top
 Profile  
Smalley
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:06 am
Posts: 1001
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:54 am 
 

Slater922 wrote:
I think I saw a thread similar to this last year.
You sure did.
_________________
Smalley proudly presents: The Golden Age Of Metal!
Home Forum

Top
 Profile  
Vadara
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:14 pm
Posts: 393
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:08 am 
 

To be completely frank, the thing about DM is that it really isn't like most horror movies.

The movie equivalent of DM, especially the archetypal kind like Cannibal Corpse, is, like, extremely violent splatter/grindhouse films that are an hour and a half of horrific violence with little plot. DM is a nigh-constant assault on the ears, most horror movies are not anywhere near as luridly, pornographically violent and constant in their violence. DM isn't The Shining, it's A Serbian Film, 120 Days of Sodom, and Cannibal Holocaust, which are absolutely NOT mainstream or popular.

Top
 Profile  
Metal_On_The_Ascendant
Metalhead

Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 6:38 am
Posts: 1794
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:37 am 
 

Vadara wrote:
The movie equivalent of DM, especially the archetypal kind like Cannibal Corpse, is, like, extremely violent splatter/grindhouse films that are an hour and a half of horrific violence with little plot. DM is a nigh-constant assault on the ears, most horror movies are not anywhere near as luridly, pornographically violent and constant in their violence. DM isn't The Shining, it's A Serbian Film, 120 Days of Sodom, and Cannibal Holocaust, which are absolutely NOT mainstream or popular.


The thing though is that it's possible to have no appreciation whatsoever for those kinds of movies you mentioned while still being a death metal, extreme metal fan.

It's different art forms. The expectations for who they will appeal to are surface and any correlations and equivalences trying to be made will be reductive and simplistic. Just stop.
_________________
Gas_Snake wrote:
....my attention span is not your guinea pig. If even one of your songs exceeds 10 minutes, you're either a fucking genius or you need to self-edit that shit.

Empyreal wrote:
Seems like a pretty reductive way to see art.

Top
 Profile  
Rodman
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:15 am
Posts: 682
Location: Sydney, Australia
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:03 am 
 

Who don't people who admire Oliver Stone's Platoon also enjoy Sodom's M-16?
_________________
https://thephosphorusbombs.bandcamp.com/ - Hardcorethrashpunk from Sydney, Australia. Check out our latest record '...Against You!' - https://open.spotify.com/album/4sO3nrVr ... 5GZXBLuKiQ

Top
 Profile  
CoconutBackwards
Bullet Centrist

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:02 pm
Posts: 1201
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:47 am 
 

Why don't people that like Propagandhi love Cspan?
_________________
GTog:
"So, you want to sign songs about your great and glorious invisible cloud daddy? Go right ahead. You have whole tax-free buildings to do that in. I am not only not listening, I am intentionally going out of my way to ignore you."

Top
 Profile  
Corpsey the Clown
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:38 pm
Posts: 261
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:00 pm 
 

Personal preference. I like extreme metal while I dislike most gory horror movies. I guess I would rather imagine it than see a pale imitation of it on a screen.

Top
 Profile  
LithoJazzoSphere
Veteran

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:11 pm
Posts: 2945
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:37 pm 
 

I think some of you are being too hard on the idea that there could reasons to enjoy both. Obviously they are different types of media, and liking one doesn't guarantee liking the other. Nevertheless, there is quite a lot of fanbase overlap, and if you read interviews with metal musicians who write these sorts of lyrics, they're always talking about being inspired by those sorts of movies, so I think there is definitely a significant connection, it's not like it's just pure coincidence. I myself enjoy a fair amount of horror, though increasingly over the years it tends towards creepier, more atmospheric films rather than super-graphic, violent ones, and that's true of my music taste itself, which might just be aging, I'm not sure.

Top
 Profile  
HeavenDuff
Veteran

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 2763
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:04 pm 
 

The_Grindcrusher wrote:
This is something that's made me curious for a while. In my eyes, bands like Death, Carcass, Putrid Pile, and a certain band whose name references corpse's cannibalizing corpses, are just gory slasher movies in audio form, they talk about death, murder, infection, mythical supernatural stuff, just like movies.

Yet, a lot of people I meet who like these movies dislike extreme metal like the bands I mentioned above, even finding them a bit "disgusting".

Now, of course, I know everyone has their music tastes, there's even some extreme metal I don't like, but I find it a bit odd that metal, which has very similar imagery to movies like The Thing, Friday The 13th, and Dawn Of The Dead, is looked more down upon than4 those said movies.


This is a question I've been asking myself for a long time. When I was a teenager, back in the early 2000's, me and other metalheads would chose thrash metal tracks, mainly Megadeth tracks in our English class for essays and presentations because we liked the music, but also because they had tracks with very political or socially engaged themes, such as Kick The Chair, Symphony of Destruction or Holy Wars. And I distinctively remember our teacher saying it was violent, as if it was some sort of argument against it. And I remember making that kind of argument, maybe not on that specific occasion, but at some other point, that it was weird that violence, gore, horror, torture, sequestration, gangsterism, gang violence, criminality etc. was depicted in popular, mainstream movies (Misery, The Godfather, Pulp Fiction, Fight Club, Silence of the Lambs, Saw, Hellraiser, IT, Evil Dead, Nightmare on Elm Street, Night of the Living Dead, etc.) but also books (just think of Clive Barker and Stephen King novels) generally received very positive reception from the general public, but that the same would not apply to music.

It's hard to really pinpoint a specific reason for why that is and apply it to everyone, but I think that one of the main reasons, for a lot of people at least, is that music is often deemed to be a more "personnal" cultural media, and people often think of lyrics are being directly spoken from the mouth of the musicians, as opposed to movies or books that feature more storytelling. Now of course, this is very untrue for a lot of music, especially metal or some progressive rock and more art rock, but a lot of mainstream music, be it pop, pop rock, hip-hop, RnB, etc. is exactly that: Personnal music that is often just a very personnal mean of expression for the artist. So lyrics in music, are often perceived as things that are being said by someone.

So maybe, that could be the reason why some people are confused, grossed out or feeling shocked by lyrics by bands like Cannibal Corpse, Carcass or other metal bands. It might be because they are confused as to why someone would sing about killing, dismembering someone or raping someone from a first person point of view.

Nowadays, you have similar shit going down with PC culture where people cancel artists or criticize artists for having "problematic lyrics" like Nick Cave for instance. But by doing so, they are failling to appreciate the fact that some artists are writing from a character's perspective, and condemning artists for promoting sexism, rape culture, homophobia, etc.

Now of course there is a nuance to be made, and some musicians do use music to convey sexist views, for instance, like Waking the Cadaver, but bands like Cannibal Corpse are obviously not condoning any form of real violence. And it's weird that we have to say this, because nobody would think of making sure that Stephen King isn't some psycho who is promoting sequestration, torture and murder. But for music, it's a completely different story.

Top
 Profile  
HeavenDuff
Veteran

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 2763
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:10 pm 
 

Kalaratri wrote:
Why is this such a hard concept to grasp? People who don't like extreme metal usually dislike it primarily based on the music, not the lyrical content or imagery used by bands. Liking horror movies that are particularly gory doesn't mean you automatically think death metal sounds good.


I think that the OP's post question might be phrased a little badly, but he did mention the fact that some people are "disgusted" by extreme metal based not so much on the music, but on the lyrical themes, which is something I've also observed. And OP is right, it's weird that people have this total acceptance for violence and gore in movies, but have a strong disdain for it in music.

That's something I've brought up to people who voiced a disdain or disgust for violence and gore in music, and whenever I ask them why they feel that way about metal, but not about horror movies, they never know what to answer to me, and they generally realize that this is a contradiction and comes from a very arbitrary idea of what is acceptable and what isn't and under which media format.

Top
 Profile  
Ill-Starred Son
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
Posts: 1176
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:59 pm 
 

The_Grindcrusher wrote:
This is something that's made me curious for a while. In my eyes, bands like Death, Carcass, Putrid Pile, and a certain band whose name references corpse's cannibalizing corpses, are just gory slasher movies in audio form, they talk about death, murder, infection, mythical supernatural stuff, just like movies.

Yet, a lot of people I meet who like these movies dislike extreme metal like the bands I mentioned above, even finding them a bit "disgusting".

Now, of course, I know everyone has their music tastes, there's even some extreme metal I don't like, but I find it a bit odd that metal, which has very similar imagery to movies like The Thing, Friday The 13th, and Dawn Of The Dead, is looked more down upon than4 those said movies.


Why would you even ask this?

Extreme metal has a particular sound (or sounds) whether it's black, death, grind, sludge, etc, particular guitar, bass, drum and vocals techniques and effects (I don't know music theory well so don't have better words), styles of playing etc. that have a unique effect on the human ear and brain, and not everyone likes that.

Horror movies are an entirely different medium, and lots of people who like horror moves don't feel that metal music appeals to them.

You seem to think that all the people who like horror movies but don't like metal feel that way because metal shocks them and horror movies don't, and if that were the case you MIGHT have a leg to stand on, but it just isn't true.

Lots of people don't necessarily find metal shocking, they just don't like it.

And even as a HUGE fan of both horror movies and metal music, i disagree that metal music is "just gory slasher movies in audio form."

That's not necessarily true at all. Sure, lots of extreme metal uses that imagery and those lyrics, but still, this analogy is not necessarily the case.

Top
 Profile  
Ill-Starred Son
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
Posts: 1176
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:10 pm 
 

However, the one thing I will say is a good question (and I think I MIGHT have said it in that other thread, or if not i once mentioned it on this forum) is that I find it very odd that there are people who think that all extreme metal bands like Cannibal Corpse who write about dismembering people must be psychopathic maniacs, but they DON'T in any way assume the same thing of the screein writers or directors of horror movies like The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

I have a friend who likes some metal but not extreme metal. He's more into power metal, NWOBHM, Dio, some melodic death metal etc, and he's not a huge fan of horror movies either, but I very much doubt he would assume that the writers and directors of horror movies are crazy.

So years ago we were talking about whether or not Cannibal Corpse was "serious" when writing their lyrics. I said I didn't think they were all that serious, and by that what I meant was that they weren't interested in going out and killing people, not that they weren't committed to their art form.

My friend was like "Oh no, I really think they are SERIOUS...", whatever that means...

I thought in retrospect that I wanted to ask him if he thought that the writers or directors of horror movies, or even Stephen King for that matter were also "serious", in the sense that they wanted to kill people but maybe just hadn't acted on it due to fear of prison....but I never thought to ask him at the time.

This is actually often true though I've found, that people do often think the worst of extreme metal bands and the kinds of people they might be in person for writing such gory lyrics, but they don't think that of horror writers/directors, and that is a huge double standard that I find very strange.

Top
 Profile  
Ill-Starred Son
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
Posts: 1176
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:13 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
The_Grindcrusher wrote:
This is something that's made me curious for a while. In my eyes, bands like Death, Carcass, Putrid Pile, and a certain band whose name references corpse's cannibalizing corpses, are just gory slasher movies in audio form, they talk about death, murder, infection, mythical supernatural stuff, just like movies.

Yet, a lot of people I meet who like these movies dislike extreme metal like the bands I mentioned above, even finding them a bit "disgusting".

Now, of course, I know everyone has their music tastes, there's even some extreme metal I don't like, but I find it a bit odd that metal, which has very similar imagery to movies like The Thing, Friday The 13th, and Dawn Of The Dead, is looked more down upon than4 those said movies.


This is a question I've been asking myself for a long time. When I was a teenager, back in the early 2000's, me and other metalheads would chose thrash metal tracks, mainly Megadeth tracks in our English class for essays and presentations because we liked the music, but also because they had tracks with very political or socially engaged themes, such as Kick The Chair, Symphony of Destruction or Holy Wars. And I distinctively remember our teacher saying it was violent, as if it was some sort of argument against it. And I remember making that kind of argument, maybe not on that specific occasion, but at some other point, that it was weird that violence, gore, horror, torture, sequestration, gangsterism, gang violence, criminality etc. was depicted in popular, mainstream movies (Misery, The Godfather, Pulp Fiction, Fight Club, Silence of the Lambs, Saw, Hellraiser, IT, Evil Dead, Nightmare on Elm Street, Night of the Living Dead, etc.) but also books (just think of Clive Barker and Stephen King novels) generally received very positive reception from the general public, but that the same would not apply to music.

It's hard to really pinpoint a specific reason for why that is and apply it to everyone, but I think that one of the main reasons, for a lot of people at least, is that music is often deemed to be a more "personnal" cultural media, and people often think of lyrics are being directly spoken from the mouth of the musicians, as opposed to movies or books that feature more storytelling. Now of course, this is very untrue for a lot of music, especially metal or some progressive rock and more art rock, but a lot of mainstream music, be it pop, pop rock, hip-hop, RnB, etc. is exactly that: Personnal music that is often just a very personnal mean of expression for the artist. So lyrics in music, are often perceived as things that are being said by someone.

So maybe, that could be the reason why some people are confused, grossed out or feeling shocked by lyrics by bands like Cannibal Corpse, Carcass or other metal bands. It might be because they are confused as to why someone would sing about killing, dismembering someone or raping someone from a first person point of view.

Nowadays, you have similar shit going down with PC culture where people cancel artists or criticize artists for having "problematic lyrics" like Nick Cave for instance. But by doing so, they are failling to appreciate the fact that some artists are writing from a character's perspective, and condemning artists for promoting sexism, rape culture, homophobia, etc.

Now of course there is a nuance to be made, and some musicians do use music to convey sexist views, for instance, like Waking the Cadaver, but bands like Cannibal Corpse are obviously not condoning any form of real violence. And it's weird that we have to say this, because nobody would think of making sure that Stephen King isn't some psycho who is promoting sequestration, torture and murder. But for music, it's a completely different story.



Funny that I just wrote my last post and didn't even read this post of yours and you are saying literally the exact same thing I am, and you even referenced Stephen King just like me.

This is Deja Vu, but it's actually real, because I know we said all this before in another thread in the past, and it may have even been the one referenced, but I'd have to check, and I described my story and other people said exactly the same kinds of things you are saying and we all agreed that there is a double standard.

However, that's different from asking why someone would like horror movies and not like extreme metal or vice versa.

Top
 Profile  
Rocka_Rollas
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:08 am
Posts: 1207
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:56 pm 
 

It's like people who say "I dont like power metal"

And then proceeds to bingewatch Game Of Thrones

:p

Top
 Profile  
HeavenDuff
Veteran

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 2763
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:31 pm 
 

Ill-Starred Son wrote:
Funny that I just wrote my last post and didn't even read this post of yours and you are saying literally the exact same thing I am, and you even referenced Stephen King just like me.

This is Deja Vu, but it's actually real, because I know we said all this before in another thread in the past, and it may have even been the one referenced, but I'd have to check, and I described my story and other people said exactly the same kinds of things you are saying and we all agreed that there is a double standard.

However, that's different from asking why someone would like horror movies and not like extreme metal or vice versa.


Yes, we both wrote on the matter in a previous thread, and like you said, there is this weird double-standard that makes some people think of death metal musicians, for instance, to be psychos because of the lyrics they write, but who don't see horror movie writers as psychopaths, even though they are basically doing the same thing.

It becomes very ironic when you think of albums like Scream Bloody Gore, which is basically Chuck's hommage to zombie and horror movies of the 70's and 80's with very direct references to Evil Dead, Lucio Fulci movies (Zombie, City of the Living Dead, The Beyond), Re-Animator, and Cannibal Ferox.

I do agree that this double-standard against violence and gore in metal is different then asking why people who like horror movies don't like death metal, but I think the OP might have just phrased his question a little poorly, because he did mention how some people were disgusted by gore/horror lyrics in metal, which implies not just personal tastes, but more of a normative or some sort of value judgement.

Of course now if OP could clarify by himself, it would be helpful as this thread's being going in all directions and we do not seem to be understanding the same thing from his post.

Top
 Profile  
LithoJazzoSphere
Veteran

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:11 pm
Posts: 2945
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:03 pm 
 

The thing is, some people don't even have consistent standards for the same media. I've heard people decry horror movies as too graphic and violent, but then they're watching war or action movies that are extremely graphic and violent (some of them even more so than many horror films). Some people might be able to do some mental gymnastics to come up with contextual reasons why it actually is consistent, but for others I think they dislike things for different reasons and just come up with flimsy ad hoc arguments as to why. Horror in particular had a bad reputation for a long time because there were so many poorly made films in the genre, particularly in the 80s. So some might dislike them based on quality and then project other reasons regardless of whether they actually apply.

Top
 Profile  
Ill-Starred Son
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
Posts: 1176
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:51 pm 
 

Smalley wrote:
Slater922 wrote:
I think I saw a thread similar to this last year.
You sure did.


Yup, I went back and sure enough, I wrote almost everything I wrote this time before in this thread, as did others.

Funny how some of these topics just repeat themselves.

Top
 Profile  
In_Zane
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:33 pm
Posts: 101
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 1:29 am 
 

I don't like Gory horror movies, or horror in general (find it kinda dull, but I have a soft spot for the Chucky stuff with Brad Dourif), but I love extreme metal. :P
_________________
Paranoia,
Coming from within, taking over,
Symptoms of an everlasting...
Phobia!

Top
 Profile  
thewrll
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:33 am
Posts: 309
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 1:39 am 
 

Kalaratri wrote:
Why is this such a hard concept to grasp? People who don't like extreme metal usually dislike it primarily based on the music, not the lyrical content or imagery used by bands. Liking horror movies that are particularly gory doesn't mean you automatically think death metal sounds good.

Top
 Profile  
InnesI
The Goat Fucker

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:19 pm
Posts: 2001
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:56 am 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
It's hard to really pinpoint a specific reason for why that is and apply it to everyone, but I think that one of the main reasons, for a lot of people at least, is that music is often deemed to be a more "personnal" cultural media, and people often think of lyrics are being directly spoken from the mouth of the musicians, as opposed to movies or books that feature more storytelling. Now of course, this is very untrue for a lot of music, especially metal or some progressive rock and more art rock, but a lot of mainstream music, be it pop, pop rock, hip-hop, RnB, etc. is exactly that: Personnal music that is often just a very personnal mean of expression for the artist. So lyrics in music, are often perceived as things that are being said by someone.


I've though of this but in relation to other forms of popular culture and art, that being pro-wrestling. It just seems like certain form of art are perceived as more personal, where the art and the artist are seen to blend together. There is definitely such a thing with music where some thinks an artist supports what he or she sings about. In pro-wrestling it can happen on the base of the characters individual performers portray but is more common in regards to the company presenting the product.

If a film depicts a blatantly homosexual character that gets discriminated, beaten and is put through misery (take It part 2 for example) it is generally seen as a part of a story. Few would say that the script writer (or in this case Stephen King), the producer or the director are homophobic. If the same scene would play out in pro-wrestling the company would be in trouble for being homophobic. And the same would probably be true for a musician.

Now it's obviously about how one performs said scenario but if we play with the thought of them being as similar as they could be but in the context of the different art form I think they would be seen very differently. This can also be used as an advantage. Some things can be portrayed on film because it is less personal. Some things gain more interest because a band sings about it instead making it more personal. But we can't expect all art forms to be seen the same, even if the basic ingredients are the same in the story they want to portray. For whatever reason we judge different art forms as being more and less personal. More and less honest. More reflection of the artist inner self or more reflections of society (cut of from the artist).

Quote:
Nowadays, you have similar shit going down with PC culture where people cancel artists or criticize artists for having "problematic lyrics" like Nick Cave for instance. But by doing so, they are failling to appreciate the fact that some artists are writing from a character's perspective, and condemning artists for promoting sexism, rape culture, homophobia, etc.


Some are also not taking history in account. None would regard Anthrax song Indians as racist when it was released. Now I've seen people argue they should stop playing it because of the wordage used in the song. Same goes for the things you mention, writing form a character perspective, promoting sexism, gang culture, violence and other such things.

But we should also be conscious that music is very powerful which is why it is used in propaganda and pr everywhere. It influences so many people with such power. I've seen people get into drugs because of the music they like. I've seen people become politically active because of the music the love. And I've seen people commit crimes because of the music they love.
_________________
MA's goat fucker. I've also been called a satanist, communist, right wing, nazi-apologist, fascist, muslim, muslim lover, PC, feminist, neoliberal, boot licker, verbal masturbator and an "absolute baby"! Feel free to add your projection too. :-)

Top
 Profile  
gomorro
Too Slow to Owl

Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:54 pm
Posts: 953
Location: Peru
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:23 pm 
 

A couple of years ago I used to work managing a restaurant and a tv celebrity use to go quite often there. One day he sat at the bar, waiting for a friend. An hour went by and his frind never arrived. Couple of minutes later an ambulance arrived and police too... And we went out, aparently his friend had a Heart attack after parking (Both were over 65). You may say dude this shit isn't gory at all. But seeing the old man corpse isin´t the same as telling it... A video would have been more interesting perhaps.

Top
 Profile  
thewrll
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:33 am
Posts: 309
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:10 pm 
 

gomorro wrote:
A couple of years ago I used to work managing a restaurant and a tv celebrity use to go quite often there. One day he sat at the bar, waiting for a friend. An hour went by and his frind never arrived. Couple of minutes later an ambulance arrived and police too... And we went out, aparently his friend had a Heart attack after parking (Both were over 65). You may say dude this shit isn't gory at all. But seeing the old man corpse isin´t the same as telling it... A video would have been more interesting perhaps.


WTF

Top
 Profile  
Yuli Ban
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:07 am
Posts: 183
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:19 pm 
 

Look at a waveform for hard rock, let alone extreme metal. To a lot of people, it comes off as too noisy. Simple as that. Hence why plenty of people can bop to club or hip hop music but turn a nose to hard rock that has pretty much the same lyrics. They're not hearing intricate guitar work or soulful vocals; they're hearing what's basically a saw grinding sheets of metal over some white dude screaming about allegedly scary things.

Top
 Profile  
Ill-Starred Son
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
Posts: 1176
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:46 pm 
 

InnesI wrote:
HeavenDuff wrote:
It's hard to really pinpoint a specific reason for why that is and apply it to everyone, but I think that one of the main reasons, for a lot of people at least, is that music is often deemed to be a more "personnal" cultural media, and people often think of lyrics are being directly spoken from the mouth of the musicians, as opposed to movies or books that feature more storytelling. Now of course, this is very untrue for a lot of music, especially metal or some progressive rock and more art rock, but a lot of mainstream music, be it pop, pop rock, hip-hop, RnB, etc. is exactly that: Personnal music that is often just a very personnal mean of expression for the artist. So lyrics in music, are often perceived as things that are being said by someone.


I've though of this but in relation to other forms of popular culture and art, that being pro-wrestling. It just seems like certain form of art are perceived as more personal, where the art and the artist are seen to blend together. There is definitely such a thing with music where some thinks an artist supports what he or she sings about. In pro-wrestling it can happen on the base of the characters individual performers portray but is more common in regards to the company presenting the product.

If a film depicts a blatantly homosexual character that gets discriminated, beaten and is put through misery (take It part 2 for example) it is generally seen as a part of a story. Few would say that the script writer (or in this case Stephen King), the producer or the director are homophobic. If the same scene would play out in pro-wrestling the company would be in trouble for being homophobic. And the same would probably be true for a musician.

Now it's obviously about how one performs said scenario but if we play with the thought of them being as similar as they could be but in the context of the different art form I think they would be seen very differently. This can also be used as an advantage. Some things can be portrayed on film because it is less personal. Some things gain more interest because a band sings about it instead making it more personal. But we can't expect all art forms to be seen the same, even if the basic ingredients are the same in the story they want to portray. For whatever reason we judge different art forms as being more and less personal. More and less honest. More reflection of the artist inner self or more reflections of society (cut of from the artist).

Quote:
Nowadays, you have similar shit going down with PC culture where people cancel artists or criticize artists for having "problematic lyrics" like Nick Cave for instance. But by doing so, they are failling to appreciate the fact that some artists are writing from a character's perspective, and condemning artists for promoting sexism, rape culture, homophobia, etc.


Some are also not taking history in account. None would regard Anthrax song Indians as racist when it was released. Now I've seen people argue they should stop playing it because of the wordage used in the song. Same goes for the things you mention, writing form a character perspective, promoting sexism, gang culture, violence and other such things.

But we should also be conscious that music is very powerful which is why it is used in propaganda and pr everywhere. It influences so many people with such power. I've seen people get into drugs because of the music they like. I've seen people become politically active because of the music the love. And I've seen people commit crimes because of the music they love.



So, by your logic, are you arguing that people SHOULD see metal bands who write gory lyrics as being more likely to actually be violent people in real life than the screen writers or directors of horror movies?

I mean, you are saying we shouldn't expect all art to be seen equally (and to some extent I understand, though I'm not sure I agree...) so wouldn't that mean that it's perfectly reasonable for people to assume that Chris Barnes and Corpsegrinder might really be maniacs in real life because they write gory lyrics?

Top
 Profile  
InnesI
The Goat Fucker

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:19 pm
Posts: 2001
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:51 am 
 

Ill-Starred Son wrote:
So, by your logic, are you arguing that people SHOULD see metal bands who write gory lyrics as being more likely to actually be violent people in real life than the screen writers or directors of horror movies?

I mean, you are saying we shouldn't expect all art to be seen equally (and to some extent I understand, though I'm not sure I agree...) so wouldn't that mean that it's perfectly reasonable for people to assume that Chris Barnes and Corpsegrinder might really be maniacs in real life because they write gory lyrics?


No, I'm not arguing that we should see it that way. I'm saying that, for whatever reason, people do see it that way. It's much more likely that a vocalist will be seen as a violent person if he focuses on violence in his lyrics compared to if an actor plays violent roles. Just like violence in film is usually seen as less concerning compared to violence in music.
_________________
MA's goat fucker. I've also been called a satanist, communist, right wing, nazi-apologist, fascist, muslim, muslim lover, PC, feminist, neoliberal, boot licker, verbal masturbator and an "absolute baby"! Feel free to add your projection too. :-)

Top
 Profile  
Firmament1
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:40 am
Posts: 77
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:17 am 
 

Because they're different mediums that evoke different feelings.

Top
 Profile  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: An Ferbasach, Bogdaniel, Bushido, Empyreal, Google [Bot], henkkjelle, Kalaratri, Kryth, thrashinbatman and 22 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

  Print view
Jump to:  

Back to the Encyclopaedia Metallum


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group