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Slater922
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:34 pm 
 

Mercyful Fate and King Diamond are both amazing metal bands from Denmark, but choosing which band is better is kinda complicated. I love MF and KD, especially with their 80s input. However, if I have to choose, I'd personally go with Mercyful Fate. There's this certain charm in the atmosphere of Melissa and Don't Break the Oath that I feel like King Diamond can't reach, though that doesn't mean the KD albums are horrible at all. But if you had to go with one band over the other, which band would you choose?
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Ace_Rimmer
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:57 pm 
 

I'll put DBTO above anything else KD has done, but on average I will give the entire KD discography the nod.

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doomicus
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:57 pm 
 

Mercyful Fate, no contest. The rock and roll, and inventive loose style coupled with King's vocals, and lyrics make for a hellish combination that cannot be beat. The musicians on the classic run of MF records had a very special chemistry. King Diamond solo is much more controlled, and pristine, which I also enjoy, but not nearly on the same level.
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oldmetalhead
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:59 pm 
 

They mostly share the same band mates but I prefer Mercyful Fate. The structure of the songs are a bit different and I like how MF builds their songs better. And KD sings in more lower register on MF songs.

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Metal_On_The_Ascendant
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:05 pm 
 

Mercyful Fate's two classic album highs are unbeatable, even by King Diamond. Everything post-Don't Break The Oath can compete with Fatal Portrait, Abigail and "Them"...and definitely lose. Those three are outstanding records.

But Mercyful Fate for me overall because quality beats quantity in the general scheme of things.
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King_of_Arnor
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:06 pm 
 

KD has Andy LaRocque and Mikkey Dee on their classic albums which is an obvious bonus, so I think KD's musicianship is better. However MF comes across as more serious in its lyrics which really gives it that satanic quality that's missing from KD. That's likely the reason MF is sometimes considered first wave black metal but KD isn't. So I narrowly have to give it to MF.

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Metal_On_The_Ascendant
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:14 pm 
 

Yeah MF had a darker tone to it as if the satanic stuff was real while KD is just telling scary tales. I have a sentimental memory about hearing "Into the Coven" in New Orleans and being struck by the construction of it and the tone, mood of it. Mercyful Fate just stands out. No two ways about it.
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Floodland
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:22 pm 
 

Actually, neither.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:33 pm 
 

Both are very good - but at least the first two MF albums are so chock full of amazing riffs, leads and writing and atmosphere, that I'd have to say those. They were truly pushing the envelope. Real Satanic, evil shit.
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Ill-Starred Son
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:53 pm 
 

I really can't choose as I love both so much, and obviously they are quite similar bands.

I prefer Andy Larouqe's guitar to any of the MF guitarists overall, but the MF guitarists are also great.

I've never distinguished between the two really. I see it as an album by album case and just consider everything KD has ever done as being part of his entire library.

Some MF albums I like better, some KD albums I like better.

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Oxenkiller
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:54 pm 
 

I never bought into the whole storytelling, concept album thing that King Diamond did with his solo albums, and a lot of the songwriting didn't feel as compelling to me. It's still good but...I prefer the classic Mercyful Fate stuff.

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Zelkiiro
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:04 pm 
 

I never dug much of anything Mercyful Fate has done after the first two albums, and I never liked either of those albums more than, say, Abigail or Them, so...

My vote goes to King Diamond.
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gestapothrash
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:28 pm 
 

MF for me, the whole package I find is a better listening experience. All the members contribute to what MF is, whereas I found KD was always lacking a little extra something and didn't have the same oomph.
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Gemini 7 Rising
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:01 pm 
 

I'd have to agree with the general sentiment here; it's very hard to beat those first two classic Mercyful Fate records.
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Gemini 7 Rising
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:05 pm 
 

doomicus wrote:
Mercyful Fate, no contest. The rock and roll, and inventive loose style coupled with King's vocals, and lyrics make for a hellish combination that cannot be beat. The musicians on the classic run of MF records had a very special chemistry. King Diamond solo is much more controlled, and pristine, which I also enjoy, but not nearly on the same level.


Empyreal wrote:
Both are very good - but at least the first two MF albums are so chock full of amazing riffs, leads and writing and atmosphere, that I'd have to say those. They were truly pushing the envelope. Real Satanic, evil shit.


These two may have articulated it better than anyone so far.
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cultofkraken
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:11 pm 
 

If I have to be honest with myself, I have to go with KD just for the sheer volume of great records. I also am always more partial to the thrashier style of King’s solo albums. That isn’t to say that the first two records by Fate aren’t two of the greatest heavy metal albums of all time because they are and they’re two of my favourite records of any genre. Period.
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Acrobat
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:29 am 
 

Thrashy? King Diamond?
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Coastliner
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:35 am 
 

Mercyful Fate because the arrangements seem to be more organic and the songwriting cuts to the chase. On his solo albums, the King tends to rely too much on the respective concept story so that many songs come across like hook-free transitions rather than the main dish. Apart from that, most of his solo albums after "Conspiracy" have a certain homerecording quality to them and seem to exist mainly to keep the ball rolling and pay the bills. As a fan, you can still enjoy most albums, even "House of God" and "Abigail II" from the wilderness years (but not "The Graveyard", atrocious songs, vile and convoluted story, I hate that one :lol: ) but there are fewer reasons to be critical of Mercyful Fate.

01 Melissa
02 Don't Break the Oath
03 Fatal Portrait
04 Abigail
05 Early MF stuff
06 Conspiracy
07 Them
08 In the Shadows / Time / Into the Unknown
11 The Spider's Lullabye
12 Dead Again
13 9
14 House of God / Abigail II / The Puppet Master
17 The Eye
18 Give me your Soul Please / Voodoo
20 The Graveyard
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Dungeon_Vic
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:16 am 
 

Τhe list above made me cry a little inside (The Eye is a masterpiece).

King Diamond for me. First two MF are 11/10 albums OF COURSE but so are Abigail and "Them" and their impact on me cannot be overstated, the first listening experience for both of those was otherworldly. Then you have 3 more 10/10 for KD (Fatal Portrait, Conspiracy, The Eye) and a couple of 9/10 for MF (In the Shadows and Time), which makes King Diamond's, the person, discography one of the most awesome run of masterpieces in the entire rock history, 9 damn albums. And I love Spider's for what is, Voodoo is great and so is The Puppet Master.

House of God, The Graveyard, Into the Unknown, Dead Again and 9 are good albums, with some excellent tracks but notably subpar. Abigail II might be better musically than I remember but fuck the story twist and Give me Your Soul Please is the album where the King reached his lowest point, there are some truly uninspired stuff on there and with a voice like that, it can turn embarassingly bad. Still, way more decent than other bands' low points but this is KD, one of my absolute favorites ever, so can't really listen to it.

Andy LaRocque, Michael Denner and Pete Blakk (and Mike Wead but he missed out on the monumental albums) are among my favorite guitarists ever, definitely two godly guitar duos (ALR/MD and ALR/PB) that for me are the top of the top but generally belong in the company of legendary duos in metal and rock. Andy, at least up to 1993 is THE favorite guitarists. Of course Hank is awesome too but it was his songwriting and riffs that did it for me, soloing-wise it's Denner all the way.

I pity those who cannot stand King's vocals (understandable but perseverance works). Missing out on some of the best metal ever recorded.
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cultofkraken
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:26 am 
 

Acrobat wrote:
Thrashy? King Diamond?


Within the heavy metal context, I feel the guitar tone on most of his records has a thrashier sound. Sorry should’ve been more descriptive.
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Aldrahn333
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 5:59 am 
 

King Diamond, no contest.
The Eye, Abigail and Conspiracy are unparalleled phenomenons in metal.

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markhebb
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:04 am 
 

Holy shit- hard choice. Would have to say MF - much more consistent back catalogue- although both Abigail and The Eye are phenomenal…

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markhebb
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:05 am 
 

Coastliner wrote:
Mercyful Fate because the arrangements seem to be more organic and the songwriting cuts to the chase. On his solo albums, the King tends to rely too much on the respective concept story so that many songs come across like hook-free transitions rather than the main dish. Apart from that, most of his solo albums after "Conspiracy" have a certain homerecording quality to them and seem to exist mainly to keep the ball rolling and pay the bills. As a fan, you can still enjoy most albums, even "House of God" and "Abigail II" from the wilderness years (but not "The Graveyard", atrocious songs, vile and convoluted story, I hate that one :lol: ) but there are fewer reasons to be critical of Mercyful Fate.

01 Melissa
02 Don't Break the Oath
03 Fatal Portrait
04 Abigail
05 Early MF stuff
06 Conspiracy
07 Them
08 In the Shadows / Time / Into the Unknown
11 The Spider's Lullabye
12 Dead Again
13 9
14 House of God / Abigail II / The Puppet Master
17 The Eye
18 Give me your Soul Please / Voodoo
20 The Graveyard


That’s a super low rating for The Eye…

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Immortal666
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:08 am 
 

Check out the links below. Ruthless Metal recently ranked the Mercyful Fate and King Diamond albums (separately):

Spoiler: show


Spoiler: show

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Coastliner
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:43 am 
 

markhebb wrote:
That’s a super low rating for The Eye…


Well, compositionally it's not worse than the other ones from that period but to me, it doesn't really feel like a metal album although it intends to be one. It's dominated by keyboards / organ while the fake drums sound like fake drums. The notion that a good keyboard player / programmer could probably recreate most of the album on his own leaves a sour taste. In short and in my view: good idea – bad execution, unfortunately. I think a re-recording with far more prominent guitars, real drums and an organic, earthy band sound would be interesting.
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markhebb
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:45 am 
 

Coastliner wrote:
markhebb wrote:
That’s a super low rating for The Eye…


Well, compositionally it's not worse than the other ones from that period but to me, it doesn't really feel like a metal album although it intends to be one. It's dominated by keyboards / organ while the fake drums sound like fake drums. The notion that a good keyboard player / programmer could probably recreate most of the album on his own leaves a sour taste. In short and in my view: good idea – bad execution, unfortunately. I think a re-recording with far more prominent guitars, real drums and an organic, earthy band sound would be interesting.


The one everyone loves that I don’t “get” is Conspiracy. No idea why….

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Coastliner
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:14 am 
 

markhebb wrote:
Coastliner wrote:
markhebb wrote:
That’s a super low rating for The Eye…


Well, compositionally it's not worse than the other ones from that period but to me, it doesn't really feel like a metal album although it intends to be one. It's dominated by keyboards / organ while the fake drums sound like fake drums. The notion that a good keyboard player / programmer could probably recreate most of the album on his own leaves a sour taste. In short and in my view: good idea – bad execution, unfortunately. I think a re-recording with far more prominent guitars, real drums and an organic, earthy band sound would be interesting.


The one everyone loves that I don’t “get” is Conspiracy. No idea why….


In a way, "Conspiracy" was his commercial / MTV album. Metal with a dash of AOR => hair metal (especially in "Sleepless Nights"). Maybe that's what puts you off. Or maybe it's the fact that it concludes with two instrumentals in a row instead of an epic like "Black Horsemen" or anything else with vocal melodies and lyrics that bring the whole "Them"-concept to a close (after all it was a sequel to the "Them" story, so you kind of expect a grand, wordy finale instead of noodling and effects...).
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Benedict Donald
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:50 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Both are very good - but at least the first two MF albums are so chock full of amazing riffs, leads and writing and atmosphere, that I'd have to say those. They were truly pushing the envelope. Real Satanic, evil shit.



This.
And I'd add the EP to this, as well.

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Opus
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:29 am 
 

If we level the field and take away the two best albums of both bands it's obvious: King Diamond. None of the MF reunion albums are more than "good", far from classic material.
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Benedict Donald
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:14 am 
 

Opus wrote:
If we level the field and take away the two best albums of both bands it's obvious: King Diamond. None of the MF reunion albums are more than "good", far from classic material.


KD/MF certainly suffered a decline in quality during the 90s into the early 00s. While each album has a few gems, none of those records can touch the 80s output (I include "The Eye" here).

Concerning Fate, the atmosphere of their 80s material was seemingly unrepeatable. And with each passing KD album, the silliness/cheese increased. Again, they're all highly enjoyable albums, but KD came close to self-parody on a few occasions (some of "The Graveyard" is cringe-inducing). The stellar musicianship saves these albums, however. ("Time" is quite good but is desperately in need of a remix....where's the bottom-end, for cryin' out loud???!?!??!?!)

With this said, "The Puppet Master" was, to my ears, a complete return to the greatness of 80s KD. A stellar record.

Overall, it's probably unfair to compare MF/KD to early MF, as it's untouchable and in a league of its own.

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MRmehman
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:42 am 
 

Mercyful Fate for me but King Diamond's solo material is (in my opinion) more consistent. I'd have a hard time choosing between Don't Break the Oath and The Eye, or even Abigail.
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MetlaNZ
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:29 pm 
 

Melissa, Don't Break The Oath and The Beginning comp fuckin rule, so Mercyful Fate it is.

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FLIPPITYFLOOP
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:05 pm 
 

King_of_Arnor wrote:
KD has Andy LaRocque and Mikkey Dee on their classic albums which is an obvious bonus, so I think KD's musicianship is better. However MF comes across as more serious in its lyrics which really gives it that satanic quality that's missing from KD. That's likely the reason MF is sometimes considered first wave black metal but KD isn't. So I narrowly have to give it to MF.


Metal_On_The_Ascendant wrote:
Yeah MF had a darker tone to it as if the satanic stuff was real while KD is just telling scary tales. I have a sentimental memory about hearing "Into the Coven" in New Orleans and being struck by the construction of it and the tone, mood of it. Mercyful Fate just stands out. No two ways about it.


Basically where I stand. Both are great, and King Diamond definitely has more refined musicianship, but with both bands being something I generally have to be in the mood for before listening, Mercyful Fate's darker tinge definitely compels me to throw them on first, even though I actually own more King Diamond records.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:12 pm 
 

MetlaNZ wrote:
Melissa, Don't Break The Oath and The Beginning comp fuckin rule, so Mercyful Fate it is.


Didn't know The Beginning had the EP on it. I lost my old download. Good to have a way to get that shit back.
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MetlaNZ
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:36 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
MetlaNZ wrote:
Melissa, Don't Break The Oath and The Beginning comp fuckin rule, so Mercyful Fate it is.


Didn't know The Beginning had the EP on it. I lost my old download. Good to have a way to get that shit back.

Yeah The Beginning and Return Of The Vampire comps were my introduction to Mercyful Fate, got em both at the same time on tape in '92 from a rather cool little record store where I live. One of those many blind purchases I used to make that were based on the bands name, album cover and song titles!
It took me a while to appreciate Kings vocals, I immediately took to his low stuff but the high stuff was an acquired taste for sure. The songs tho were just incredible.

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Xytras71
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 3:56 pm 
 

This task is next to impossible...at least for me. I've always viewed MF/KD as the same entity, so it almost feels like an exercise in futility. So I' ll just list my top 10 and you be a judge, haha:

1. Conspiracy. My fave Metal album of all times. So there you go!
2. Melissa
3. Don't Break The Oath
4. Fatal Portrait
5. Them
6. Time
7. Abigail
8. Eye
9. In The Shadows
10. 9

its a 50/50 split for what it worth

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Gemini 7 Rising
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 5:05 pm 
 

Benedict Donald wrote:
Concerning Fate, the atmosphere of their 80s material was seemingly unrepeatable.


And I think the later MF that comes the closest is '9'. That one captures some of the grit and magic of their 80s classics.
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Ill-Starred Son
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 5:44 pm 
 

Ok, so if we are getting into favorite albums by both, I'm not going to strictly rank them, I'm just going to say that these are my overall favorites, as like I said, I honestly don't like to even distinguish and just see them all as King's works, but I'll give my top ones and then the ones that aren't quite as the top.

For MF, most would call it blasphemy that Don't Break the Oath isn't my favorite, and the same for KD that Abigail isn't my favorite. Those seem the default answers as to the best of both, but not for me. To this day, "Time" is my favorite, and overall my favorite thing KD has ever done period. It's largely because it was my introduction to KD's music overall. Around age 15 I bought the album and for some reason the music scared the hell out of me LOL.

I mean, it may sound weird now, but as a 15 year old I didn't know about satanic music and "Time" is a very chilling album if you haven't heard King Diamond or MF before. So I sold the album to a store, but then afterwards couldn't get the tracks out of my head, bought the album back and fell in love with it and then bought every single MF and KD album and became obsessed and the rest is history.


So, as groupings but not specifically ranked, here are my favorites"

1st tier:

MF--Time
KD--Them
KD--Fatal Portrait
KD--The Eye
KD--Conspiracy

2nd tier:

MF--Don't Break the Oath
MF--Melissa
MF--The Beginning
KD--Abigail


3rd tier:

KD--The Spider's Lullabye
Black Rose--their only album
MF--Into the Unknown
MF--In the Shadows


4th tier: everything else

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Ill-Starred Son
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 5:52 pm 
 

I know that my experience of the MF album "Time" and it having such a big impact on me has so much to do with the fact that it was my intro to all of King's music, and the fact that it freaked me out as a 15 year old, but does anyone else hear anything particularly unique and "eerie" about that album, or is it just me?

I wonder if I'd heard something else by MF or KD first if I'd have had the same reaction, but I think at least SOME of it really does have to do with that album.

I mean, the first few tracks on it are really beautifully haunting still to this day IMO, and I first heard that album probably over 25 years ago. Just listen to "Nightmare be thy Name", "Angel of Light" and "Witches Dance" all the way through and tell me that if that was your intro to MF/KD as a young teen it wouldn't have an impression on you and that those aren't some haunting tracks.

Lady in Black and Mirror are also badass.

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Coastliner
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:14 pm 
 

Ill-Starred Son wrote:
does anyone else hear anything particularly unique and "eerie" about that album [...]?


No, but I know where you're coming from because the only album that has an "eerie" aura for me is "Fatal Portrait" - and, surprise, it was my first contact with KD! :lol:

Those first impressions weren't only and purely eerie though but also funny. I mean... that voice... when you first hear those falsettos you don't know whether you should run away in terror or die laughing. Something that is menacing and funny at the same time is: grotesque. Dazzling entertainment for the whole family (Munster).
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