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SmallPoxie
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:08 pm 
 

TRAINWRECKORD is a term used for an album that flopped or failed so hard that it ended the career of an artist or a band. It's also the case when the album is so bad that it ends the relevance of the artist/band.

What examples we have of this in Metal?
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Sunbuilder
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:35 pm 
 

I actually quite enjoy Todd in the Shadows YouTube channel where he goes into depth about various pop/rock artists who have had TRAINWRECKORDs along with one hit wonders. I don't even like or care for most of these artists, but I find Todd's analysis very well done, entertaining, and interesting to see how and what lead these artists to rise and fall the way they did in music culture/history. Even though Metallica's St. Anger has been reviewed, analyzed, and discussed to death by countless people over the years, I really enjoy Todd in the Shadows episode on it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VHknjfuSwE

I guess Metallica's Lulu, Celtic Frost's Cold Lake, and Morbid Angel's Illud Divinum Insanus can probably be thrown in here too for what it's worth, but I'm not exactly sure if any of these albums really "killed" these bands or their relevance because they still managed to come back with something better later on. Otherwise, I'm sure a lot of the same albums and bands mentioned in the "Bands that pretend parts of their discography don't exist" thread would probably be mentioned here, granted not all of them since some bands just made a bad record or two but then recovered.

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Metal_On_The_Ascendant
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:38 pm 
 

Jag Panzer's Dissident Alliance is a sort of trainwreckord (this word when spoken aloud made my mouth feel funny). That it's what comes after the absolute killer that was Ample Destruction and isn't nearly as good AND doesn't have Conklin on vocals but what some said was a Phil Anselmo wannabe did the damn thing in.

On this very site;

Ample Destruction: 95%
Dissident Alliance: 19%

Damn. :lol:
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SmallPoxie
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:02 pm 
 

Sunbuilder wrote:
I actually quite enjoy Todd in the Shadows YouTube channel where he goes into depth about various pop/rock artists who have had TRAINWRECKORDs along with one hit wonders. I don't even like or care for most of these artists, but I find Todd's analysis very well done, entertaining, and interesting to see how and what lead these artists to rise and fall the way they did in music culture/history. Even though Metallica's St. Anger has been reviewed, analyzed, and discussed to death by countless people over the years, I really enjoy Todd in the Shadows episode on it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VHknjfuSwE



This thread was actually based on him so yeah, really good content
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Required Fields
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:02 pm 
 

My YouTube series Catalog Cripplers is partially inspired by that series. Todd in the Shadows has a more humorous approach to his series, though, whereas I'm more serious.

So far, I've made several episodes of the series. The albums I've discussed to date are:
Celtic Frost - Cold Lake
Tygers of Pan Tang - Burning in the Shade
Cryptopsy - The Unspoken King
Massacre - Promise
Bathory - Octagon
Morbid Angel - Illud Divinum Insanus
Crimson Glory - Strange and Beautiful

I have posted YouTube links for the whole series.







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Oxenkiller
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:38 pm 
 

Awesome posts, but how come you didn't record your videos indoors? Too much wind/siren/ambient outdoor noise in the background. Other than that...cool!

Discharge's "Grave New World"- a glam metal album recorded by a hardcore punk band, would certainly qualify as one of the worst trainwrecords in history if Discharge had started out as a metal band.

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Ragemanistan
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:28 am 
 

Death Angel - Act III . . . Not a bad album but not the album the fans were looking for after two solid albums.
Demolition Hammer - Time Bomb . . . Pretty much the same as above. Raging Thrash for two albums followed by a style shift.
Desultory - Swallow The Snake . . . Hmmm. I see a pattern developing here. Two albums of Swedish Death Metal then Pantera Groove Metal
Morgoth - Feel Sorry For The Fanatic . . . Annnnnd again. Two albums of Death Metal then Industrial Pop in one album. Seemed like a 'Fuck You' to the label more than a true style shift.
Testament - The Ritual . . . This used to be last on my list of favorite Testament albums but it has seriously grown on me over the years.

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oxwah
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:08 am 
 

It didn't kill them, but Sonata Arctica's Unia sent them down a path that took away all their momentum.

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Required Fields
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:50 pm 
 

Ragemanistan wrote:
Death Angel - Act III . . . Not a bad album but not the album the fans were looking for after two solid albums.
Demolition Hammer - Time Bomb . . . Pretty much the same as above. Raging Thrash for two albums followed by a style shift.
Desultory - Swallow The Snake . . . Hmmm. I see a pattern developing here. Two albums of Swedish Death Metal then Pantera Groove Metal
Morgoth - Feel Sorry For The Fanatic . . . Annnnnd again. Two albums of Death Metal then Industrial Pop in one album. Seemed like a 'Fuck You' to the label more than a true style shift.
Testament - The Ritual . . . This used to be last on my list of favorite Testament albums but it has seriously grown on me over the years.


Come to think of it, I may have to discuss Feel Sorry for the Fanatic in my Catalog Cripplers series in the future.

I don't plan to discuss Time Bomb, although I could. The reason I don't plan to is because it wasn't intended to be a Demolition Hammer album initially. The album was intended to be the debut album for a new band with former Demolition Hammer members, but Century Media wouldn't release the album unless it was under the Demolition Hammer album.
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Malbordus
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:24 pm 
 

Diamond Head - Canterbury.

Yes, they continue to make records and eventually re-found some consistency but it killed their momentum stone cold dead, left them floundering for direction for at least two decades after with various splits etc in the middle. It's fair to say that where once they could have been the next big thing in metal, they are an afterthought these days, if that.

Metal bands don't often die, they carry on regardless touring on old material etc. so the trainwreck here is more the total loss of relevance.

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false_icon
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:28 pm 
 

Ragemanistan wrote:
Death Angel - Act III . . . Not a bad album but not the album the fans were looking for after two solid albums.
Demolition Hammer - Time Bomb . . . Pretty much the same as above. Raging Thrash for two albums followed by a style shift.
Desultory - Swallow The Snake . . . Hmmm. I see a pattern developing here. Two albums of Swedish Death Metal then Pantera Groove Metal
Morgoth - Feel Sorry For The Fanatic . . . Annnnnd again. Two albums of Death Metal then Industrial Pop in one album. Seemed like a 'Fuck You' to the label more than a true style shift.
Testament - The Ritual . . . This used to be last on my list of favorite Testament albums but it has seriously grown on me over the years.

You can add Comecon - Fable Frolic to that list.
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mjollnir
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:37 pm 
 

oxwah wrote:
It didn't kill them, but Sonata Arctica's Unia sent them down a path that took away all their momentum.

That album began the downward spiral that continues to this day.
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mirons
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:26 pm 
 

I guess Atrocity - Blut fits this thread well. After two technical death metal classics they dropped the ball completely; while they supposedly tried to return to death metal two decades later, at this point no one really cares anymore.

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Terri23
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:08 pm 
 

Malbordus wrote:
Diamond Head - Canterbury.

Yes, they continue to make records and eventually re-found some consistency but it killed their momentum stone cold dead, left them floundering for direction for at least two decades after with various splits etc in the middle. It's fair to say that where once they could have been the next big thing in metal, they are an afterthought these days, if that.

Metal bands don't often die, they carry on regardless touring on old material etc. so the trainwreck here is more the total loss of relevance.


I think the music on Canterbury is pretty good, but it is definitely in a completely different direction that most fans wouldn't appreciate. As much as the change in direction killed momentum, there was a problem with the first print run of the record, that caused it to skip badly. Something like 20,000 copies of the record carried this serious defect.
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Metal Shark
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:56 pm 
 

Sunbuilder wrote:
I actually quite enjoy Todd in the Shadows YouTube channel where he goes into depth about various pop/rock artists who have had TRAINWRECKORDs along with one hit wonders. I don't even like or care for most of these artists, but I find Todd's analysis very well done, entertaining, and interesting to see how and what lead these artists to rise and fall the way they did in music culture/history. Even though Metallica's St. Anger has been reviewed, analyzed, and discussed to death by countless people over the years, I really enjoy Todd in the Shadows episode on it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VHknjfuSwE


He just did this one, about a SF concept record Edgar Winter did with, get this, L RON HUBBARD! I didn't know this thing existed until YESTERDAY! :lol:

https://youtu.be/Qyw6MVVgdLg?t=2

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Frank Booth
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:21 pm 
 

I wouldn't say that Act III was one of these, it's got its moments. It's just kind of a confused record that kinda makes me feel like they probably would have broken up anyways based on where they were all clearly at - Rob, Andy, Dennis, and Gus were obviously way more into RHCP, Faith No More, Living Colour, Jane's Addiction, and Primus and I think they were burnt out on metal at that point and The Organization was an honest reflection of where they wanted to be, while Mark was still the metalhead of the bunch and wanted to keep going in that direction.

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Metal Shark
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:50 am 
 

Ragemanistan wrote:
Death Angel - Act III . . . Not a bad album but not the album the fans were looking for after two solid albums.


That one must have been the LIGHTEST album by a thrash band I've ever heard!

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wraithlike
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:23 am 
 

Maybe not quite a trainwreck, but Atheist came back with Jupiter to everybody's disappointment before disappearing and never completing their follow up

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Immortal666
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:07 am 
 

Ragemanistan wrote:
Death Angel - Act III . . . Not a bad album but not the album the fans were looking for after two solid albums.


I wasn't too impressed with "Frolic Through The Park". It sounded...sophomoric? Although Act III sounds cleaner, and less thrash-y it had better songs than the 2nd album.

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brutaldeathdancepop
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:34 am 
 

Calm Before the Storm for Venom. Possessed and At War With Satan aren't perfect but this is the one where they totally lost their edge. To my knowledge they haven't recovered since though I also haven't really ever bothered to go through their discography lmao

Anthrax' Sound of White Noise surely deserves a mention here.

Carcass' Swansong is one horrid way to go, though at that point they were already sick of touring and playing together.

Pantera's Reinventing the Steel too. Or The Great Southern Trendkill, depending on who you ask. I for one love Trendkill.

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SmallPoxie
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:25 pm 
 

mirons wrote:
I guess Atrocity - Blut fits this thread well. After two technical death metal classics they dropped the ball completely; while they supposedly tried to return to death metal two decades later, at this point no one really cares anymore.


I agree, the sudden genre change slowed them down a lot. Even if it's not bad to experiment in metal, the change was too radical.
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Ace_Rimmer
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:43 pm 
 

brutaldeathdancepop wrote:
Calm Before the Storm for Venom. Possessed and At War With Satan aren't perfect but this is the one where they totally lost their edge. To my knowledge they haven't recovered since though I also haven't really ever bothered to go through their discography lmao

Anthrax' Sound of White Noise surely deserves a mention here.

Carcass' Swansong is one horrid way to go, though at that point they were already sick of touring and playing together.

Pantera's Reinventing the Steel too. Or The Great Southern Trendkill, depending on who you ask. I for one love Trendkill.


Sound of White Noise went Gold and was pretty well received.

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King_of_Arnor
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:46 pm 
 

Malbordus wrote:
Diamond Head - Canterbury.

Yes, they continue to make records and eventually re-found some consistency but it killed their momentum stone cold dead, left them floundering for direction for at least two decades after with various splits etc in the middle. It's fair to say that where once they could have been the next big thing in metal, they are an afterthought these days, if that.

Metal bands don't often die, they carry on regardless touring on old material etc. so the trainwreck here is more the total loss of relevance.


It took 33 years for the band to get back on their feet, which is tragic and baffling at the same time. Poor management basically doomed them and signing to a major label that didn't fit their sound turned out to be a big failure. Canterbury isn't even their worst record (Death and Progress is even worse) but it definitely qualifies as a trainwreck.

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Slater922
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:51 pm 
 

brutaldeathdancepop wrote:
Carcass' Swansong is one horrid way to go, though at that point they were already sick of touring and playing together.

I won't call Swansong a trainwreckord though. They returned in 2013 with Surgical Steel and they're still popular in the goregrind/melodic death metal scenes to this day.
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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:05 pm 
 

That's kind of the point though, it effectively ended their career for 17 years and was why it was celebrated by some as a glorious return when they finally came back. I actually quite like the album, but it was definitely a shift that some didn't welcome.

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Slater922
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:37 pm 
 

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
That's kind of the point though, it effectively ended their career for 17 years and was why it was celebrated by some as a glorious return when they finally came back. I actually quite like the album, but it was definitely a shift that some didn't welcome.

But then again, when I think of a trainwreckord, I think of one that is so bad, that it permanently ruins a music career so the artist is no longer gaining success at their music. Pantera is a good example at this, since they split up and haven't released another record after getting panned reviews from Reinventing the Steel. Swansong was bad, and it did put the Carcass project on hiatus, but they eventually released Surgical Steel, and were able to regain the popularity they had in the 90s and have since maintained said popularity.
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Frank Booth
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:18 pm 
 

Yeah, Swansong was basically the same as Act III: a band that was no longer feeling it and decided to just play what it felt like playing, but was still a slave to brand recognition (though Act III has more interstitial tracks plus a couple straight thrashers to try and keep old fans happy). Reinventing the Steel is a better example because it was the sign of a band that was barely functioning that was trying to limp along, but was so fractured by that point that even that was barely manageable. The reviews really didn't mean much, however - they were clearly going to break up one way or another.

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Morn Of Solace
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:21 am 
 

I wrote about it recently, the closest i can think of is Sadist's Lego: after the ultra-aggressive Crust they decided to "keep up with the times" and go for a more nu-metal influenced sound (think of Korn with Prog/Giallo keyboards... ugh!) and the reaction from both fans and reviews was so catastrophic that they decided to split up.

They eventually reunited four years later and their comeback album was a more modern take on their earlier prog/death sound, so in the end the whole situation was not really a complete trainwreck :)

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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:21 am 
 

Slater922 wrote:
LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
That's kind of the point though, it effectively ended their career for 17 years and was why it was celebrated by some as a glorious return when they finally came back. I actually quite like the album, but it was definitely a shift that some didn't welcome.

But then again, when I think of a trainwreckord, I think of one that is so bad, that it permanently ruins a music career so the artist is no longer gaining success at their music. Pantera is a good example at this, since they split up and haven't released another record after getting panned reviews from Reinventing the Steel. Swansong was bad, and it did put the Carcass project on hiatus, but they eventually released Surgical Steel, and were able to regain the popularity they had in the 90s and have since maintained said popularity.


The OP mentioned that they were at least partially inspired by the Todd in the Shadows series, and that isn't how it's characterized there. Two example albums he covers are Metallica's St. Anger and Van Halen's III. The former has made two better received albums since then and is still quite popular. The latter eventually reunited with their original vocalist and released a reasonably successful album. I don't think Pantera counts because Dimebag was murdered four years after the album, so we have no idea if they would have eventually worked their differences out and reformed.

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Required Fields
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:58 pm 
 

I don't remember Reinventing the Steel being that hated, actually. Sure, I don't think anyone considers it to be the best album Pantera ever did, but I don't think it's a particularly hated album. Of course, there were tensions in the band, and it ended up being their final studio album. Although, due to Dimebag's murder only a few years later, like LithoJazzSphere said, we may never know if (hypothetically) Pantera may have reformed somewhere along the line.
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Endarkening
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:32 pm 
 

Has Belial's "3" been mentioned in this thread yet? Cuz it belongs here. Sure, twas the style in Finland at the time (Disgrace, Xysma...)
It was just such an about face, going from the crushing dark death metal of "Never again", and in a year's time, releasing an album that sounds like a third rate Alice In Chains.
Bluh!

Also, I feel Entombed's swing and a miss album "Same Difference" should be added to the list. It's not all bad, but shedding their death metal edge was a poor decision.
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Terri23
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:14 am 
 

I don't think there's a clear understanding of what a Trainwreckord is amongst the contributors here. They aren't just bad albums. Todd defines them as albums that forever put the bands in the past tense. Some of the albums discussed here are certainly terrible albums, but not necessarily Trainwreckords. Anthrax's Stomp 442 is a Trainwreckord. It genuinely ended any interest in the band outside of diehard fans that lap up anything with Scott Ian on it. It's not even the bands worst record. Saxon have Crusader, and Overkill have I Hear Black.
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IrrationalBigBoy
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:53 pm 
 

Terri23 wrote:
I don't think there's a clear understanding of what a Trainwreckord is amongst the contributors here. They aren't just bad albums. Todd defines them as albums that forever put the bands in the past tense. Some of the albums discussed here are certainly terrible albums, but not necessarily Trainwreckords. Anthrax's Stomp 442 is a Trainwreckord. It genuinely ended any interest in the band outside of diehard fans that lap up anything with Scott Ian on it. It's not even the bands worst record. Saxon have Crusader, and Overkill have I Hear Black.


Eh, I agree with your assessment that Trainwreckords as Todd defines them are true career-enders which most examples provided here aren't, but I think Stomp 442 is a poor example; Anthrax's comeback albums like Worship Music and For All Kings were pretty big and broadly well received (even on here), which I don't think would be the case if they were truly in the "past tense". The Saxon and Overkill examples are more fitting though, since both really fell of the map after their most divisive albums.
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Ace_Rimmer
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:58 pm 
 

Required Fields wrote:
I don't remember Reinventing the Steel being that hated, actually. Sure, I don't think anyone considers it to be the best album Pantera ever did, but I don't think it's a particularly hated album. Of course, there were tensions in the band, and it ended up being their final studio album. Although, due to Dimebag's murder only a few years later, like LithoJazzSphere said, we may never know if (hypothetically) Pantera may have reformed somewhere along the line.


I know several hard core Pantera fans and they love it all.

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Deathdoom1992
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:29 pm 
 

Slater922 wrote:
Pantera is a good example at this, since they split up and haven't released another record after getting panned reviews from Reinventing the Steel.


I'm not sure the reception to Reinventing the Steel had much, if anything, to do with their split though. From what I've read about Pantera's breakup, by the late 90sthe relations between the Abbott bros and Anselmo had basically deteriorated to a point of no return anyway, and Anselmo more or less went AWOL for a while to do side project stuff after the tour for Reinventing, Vinnie Paul and Dimebag decided he wasn't coming back and called it a day around 2003. Of course, we all know what happened the year after that, so basically there was never any chance of a reunion since they'd only been split up around a year when Dimebag died.

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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:54 pm 
 

IrrationalBigBoy wrote:
Terri23 wrote:
I don't think there's a clear understanding of what a Trainwreckord is amongst the contributors here. They aren't just bad albums. Todd defines them as albums that forever put the bands in the past tense.


Eh, I agree with your assessment that Trainwreckords as Todd defines them are true career-enders


They why would he pick Metallica and Van Halen? They still had successful careers after those albums. To pick a non-metal example on his list, how about Madonna's American Life? The album two years after that one, Confessions On a Dance Floor, sold twice as many copies and was better received critically. Seven years after that, she's headlining the Super Bowl. So how can you say he's defining them as "career-ending" albums?

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Required Fields
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:44 am 
 

That's part of the reason why I won't discuss Savatage - Fight for the Rock in my Catalog Cripplers series.
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IrrationalBigBoy
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 1:15 am 
 

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
IrrationalBigBoy wrote:
Terri23 wrote:
I don't think there's a clear understanding of what a Trainwreckord is amongst the contributors here. They aren't just bad albums. Todd defines them as albums that forever put the bands in the past tense.


Eh, I agree with your assessment that Trainwreckords as Todd defines them are true career-enders


They why would he pick Metallica and Van Halen? They still had successful careers after those albums. To pick a non-metal example on his list, how about Madonna's American Life? The album two years after that one, Confessions On a Dance Floor, sold twice as many copies and was better received critically. Seven years after that, she's headlining the Super Bowl. So how can you say he's defining them as "career-ending" albums?


Maybe "career-ender" is too strong of a word, but those albums certainly were the end of an age for either band. Like sure, Metallica is still an absolute commercial juggernaut even years after St. Anger and so was Van Halen after III, but that's only because of how solidified their older material has become in broader pop-culture as a whole; they can't exactly just fall off the map. Nobody is specifically a Metallica fan because of St. Anger or Death Magnetic or even Hardwired. The same goes for Madonna; she'll never go away completely but she's nowhere near as big as she was prior to American Life. I think Terri23's exact phrasing of what a Trainwreckord is fits best: an album that forever puts the artist or band in the past tense.
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Terri23
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:47 am 
 

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
IrrationalBigBoy wrote:
Terri23 wrote:
I don't think there's a clear understanding of what a Trainwreckord is amongst the contributors here. They aren't just bad albums. Todd defines them as albums that forever put the bands in the past tense.


Eh, I agree with your assessment that Trainwreckords as Todd defines them are true career-enders


They why would he pick Metallica and Van Halen? They still had successful careers after those albums. To pick a non-metal example on his list, how about Madonna's American Life? The album two years after that one, Confessions On a Dance Floor, sold twice as many copies and was better received critically. Seven years after that, she's headlining the Super Bowl. So how can you say he's defining them as "career-ending" albums?


They did have success after their Trainwreckords. But they were never quite the same in public consciouness afterwards. Nobody puts that Van Halen record from 2012 as an all time classic at the same level as anything else they put out with Roth. Nobody legitimately thinks Death Magnetic or Hardwired are up their with Ride the Lightning or Puppets. They're simply decent records at best.

IrrationalBigBoy wrote:
Terri23 wrote:
I don't think there's a clear understanding of what a Trainwreckord is amongst the contributors here. They aren't just bad albums. Todd defines them as albums that forever put the bands in the past tense. Some of the albums discussed here are certainly terrible albums, but not necessarily Trainwreckords. Anthrax's Stomp 442 is a Trainwreckord. It genuinely ended any interest in the band outside of diehard fans that lap up anything with Scott Ian on it. It's not even the bands worst record. Saxon have Crusader, and Overkill have I Hear Black.


Eh, I agree with your assessment that Trainwreckords as Todd defines them are true career-enders which most examples provided here aren't, but I think Stomp 442 is a poor example; Anthrax's comeback albums like Worship Music and For All Kings were pretty big and broadly well received (even on here), which I don't think would be the case if they were truly in the "past tense". The Saxon and Overkill examples are more fitting though, since both really fell of the map after their most divisive albums.


I don't think Anthrax are any different to either Overkill or Saxon. Anthrax absolutely fell off the face of the planet following Stomp. They only regained any traction at all after they finally reunited with a singer the remaining members unanimously hated. They still don't like him to this day. The records Anthrax have put out in the last decade are far better than anything else they put out in 30 years, but again, they aren't winning new fans with their newer music. Outside of metal circles today, nobody gives a fuck about Anthrax. It's almost hard to believe that they are the same band that co-headlined with Public Enemy and starred in a guesting role on Married with Children, which was a succesful show at the time.
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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:20 am 
 

IrrationalBigBoy wrote:
Maybe "career-ender" is too strong of a word, but those albums certainly were the end of an age for either band. Like sure, Metallica is still an absolute commercial juggernaut even years after St. Anger and so was Van Halen after III, but that's only because of how solidified their older material has become in broader pop-culture as a whole; they can't exactly just fall off the map. Nobody is specifically a Metallica fan because of St. Anger or Death Magnetic or even Hardwired. The same goes for Madonna; she'll never go away completely but she's nowhere near as big as she was prior to American Life. I think Terri23's exact phrasing of what a Trainwreckord is fits best: an album that forever puts the artist or band in the past tense.


Terri23 wrote:
They did have success after their Trainwreckords. But they were never quite the same in public consciouness afterwards. Nobody puts that Van Halen record from 2012 as an all time classic at the same level as anything else they put out with Roth. Nobody legitimately thinks Death Magnetic or Hardwired are up their with Ride the Lightning or Puppets. They're simply decent records at best.


Ultimately this is just semantics, but I think "career-ending" and "in the past tense" are quite different concepts than the extrapolation of a train wreck. To me your terminology describes bands who released an album so bad that they called it quits, never released anything again. That's pretty rare, at least for bands that are well-known. But by your explanations almost every band with more than a handful of albums falls into a mild version of this, because they almost always released their more acclaimed material somewhere in the first few albums, and then spend the rest of their careers rarely living up to their best material ever again. That's not quite the same thing. A train wreck is just a spectacle of a disaster that can nevertheless eventually be recovered or rebuilt from. Lots of bands have done it with varying degrees of success.

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