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Terri23
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Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:53 am
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:05 am 
 

It's not my terminology, rather its the definition Todd uses in his St Anger video. There's bands with long careers that haven't released what one might call a Trainwreckord. For example, I am not sure that Iron Maiden ever released one. They had some pretty average records sure, but I'm not sure any would quite fit the definition. The point is that bands with Trainwreckords never got back to the level they enjoyed before said album.
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IrrationalBigBoy
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:01 am
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:44 am 
 

Terri23 wrote:
I don't think Anthrax are any different to either Overkill or Saxon. Anthrax absolutely fell off the face of the planet following Stomp. They only regained any traction at all after they finally reunited with a singer the remaining members unanimously hated. They still don't like him to this day. The records Anthrax have put out in the last decade are far better than anything else they put out in 30 years, but again, they aren't winning new fans with their newer music. Outside of metal circles today, nobody gives a fuck about Anthrax. It's almost hard to believe that they are the same band that co-headlined with Public Enemy and starred in a guesting role on Married with Children, which was a succesful show at the time.


I suppose they can be understood as more of an example in Metallica or Van Halen's league where they continue to enjoy success but only from their pre-Trainwreckord material. It still strikes me as something of a strange example though - maybe that's just a result of me having my head submerged specifically in the metal world for so long that I'm not particularly in touch with how the layperson views the "household names".

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
IrrationalBigBoy wrote:
Maybe "career-ender" is too strong of a word, but those albums certainly were the end of an age for either band. Like sure, Metallica is still an absolute commercial juggernaut even years after St. Anger and so was Van Halen after III, but that's only because of how solidified their older material has become in broader pop-culture as a whole; they can't exactly just fall off the map. Nobody is specifically a Metallica fan because of St. Anger or Death Magnetic or even Hardwired. The same goes for Madonna; she'll never go away completely but she's nowhere near as big as she was prior to American Life. I think Terri23's exact phrasing of what a Trainwreckord is fits best: an album that forever puts the artist or band in the past tense.


Terri23 wrote:
They did have success after their Trainwreckords. But they were never quite the same in public consciouness afterwards. Nobody puts that Van Halen record from 2012 as an all time classic at the same level as anything else they put out with Roth. Nobody legitimately thinks Death Magnetic or Hardwired are up their with Ride the Lightning or Puppets. They're simply decent records at best.


Ultimately this is just semantics, but I think "career-ending" and "in the past tense" are quite different concepts than the extrapolation of a train wreck. To me your terminology describes bands who released an album so bad that they called it quits, never released anything again. That's pretty rare, at least for bands that are well-known. But by your explanations almost every band with more than a handful of albums falls into a mild version of this, because they almost always released their more acclaimed material somewhere in the first few albums, and then spend the rest of their careers rarely living up to their best material ever again. That's not quite the same thing. A train wreck is just a spectacle of a disaster that can nevertheless eventually be recovered or rebuilt from. Lots of bands have done it with varying degrees of success.


I mean as previously pointed out that's just paraphrased from Todd's original definition. It's true that most bands peter out eventually, but what specifically makes a Trainwreckord is an episode of petering out that results in a ridiculous spectacle as you said - don't really see how that's mutually exclusive with what I was laying out.

Regardless, this is indeed an exercise in semantics I've somewhat lost track of. My point was just that most of the examples listed so far don't really feel like they have the same stupendous negative impact (relatively speaking of course, as this conversation is genre-specific) that the Trainwreckords Todd covers do.
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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:03 pm 
 

Yeah, I think we more or less agree on the overall point.

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Terri23
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:54 pm 
 

Let's get back to discussing a few more Trainwreckords. It's an interesting conversation. Def Leppard had Slang, which was their first record not to go platinum in the US. They effectively removed anything that made it recognizable as a Leppard record, including the heavy production values, and the almost carefree party lyrics, in favour of something that they thought could compete with the grunge inspired alt record that was popular at the time. The result was something that nobody wanted, and nobody bought it. The band would only have one more gold record in their career, and became yet another 80's band simply living on their success of the 80's. This is a band big enough, and a failure big enough for Todd to actually cover on his show.

Required Fields discusses this one, but Massacre's Promise. The band went from a fantastic death metal release to one of the most widely despised releases in metal. It was so bad it killed the careers of the musicians that recorded it.

Folkemon by Skyclad. Skyclad were one of the most innovative metal bands of the 90s, with a string of solid records. They had their stumbles in the 90's, but they were a well respected outfit. I'm quite certain that one of the owners of this very website cites Skyclad as their favourite band. You can even make the argument that they were something of a supergroup. Folkemon is the sound of a band coming together that doesn't get along. Nobody is trying, and while the lyrics are still there, Walkyier's performance isn't. The result is the most metal-by-numbers record the band ever put out, and seemingly directly lead to the exit of Walkyier, indeed the end of his career. Skyclad have carried on, but Ridley is no Walkyier, and the post Walkyier years have retained little interest outside of diehard fans.
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rawsewage
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:29 pm
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Location: Shamokin, PA
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:58 am 
 

Raven-The Pack is Back. Signed to Atlantic and released this turd.

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Terri23
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:17 am 
 

rawsewage wrote:
Raven-The Pack is Back. Signed to Atlantic and released this turd.


Great shout. This album absolutely killed any momentum that they retained following the previous album.

Venom - Calm Before the Storm. They replaced Mantas with two nobodies that were never seen again. It broke up the band entirely and killed the career of Cronos. Yes they have reformed, but nobody cares, and judging by the reviews here, each album seems to somehow be worst than the last. Yes, there was a period without Cronos, but that may as well be viewed as a different band entirely, and it's certainly better than anything outside of perhaps the first 3 Venom records.
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metaldiscussor666 wrote:
American isn't a nationality

Riffs wrote:
It's been scientifically proven that appreciating Black Sabbath helps increase life expectancy, improves happiness, bumps your salary by 11 thousand dollars annually, helps fight cavities and increases penis size.

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CrudeNoiseMonger
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:06 am
Posts: 82
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:32 am 
 

rawsewage wrote:
Raven-The Pack is Back. Signed to Atlantic and released this turd.


Just looking at the cover was enough to warn you to avoid this one. As far as i was concerned, the Raven that i knew was long gone.

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