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77hjrttfred
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:15 pm
Posts: 203
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:48 pm 
 

tahu157 wrote:
I don't have any statistics to back this up but my guess is that session musicians are far more common than most people realize. I do think it's kind of a let down to find out that you're listening to some rando musician instead of the band that you love. That said, I don't think it is any more lame for an all female band to use session musicians than it is for an all male band to do it.


I agree with you. The use of 'uncredited' session musicians, particularly on recorded albums, happens a lot more that people think. I mean, KISS were doing this kind of thing 40 years ago. There was the example with Melechesh a few years ago

I know a couple of people that work in the industry in Japan, and have met them at shows. One guys says it's not uncommon for this to happen over here. I actually think it is more common here than other places in the world, but I'm not sure about that. I actually checked his name out and saw of photo with him in the studio with a J-rock band that I've seen before. His name is on this site as a 'recording engineer', and he also has credits for mixing and mastering some pretty high-profile groups.

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 10200
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:53 pm 
 

Speed Metal Terror wrote:
These types of threads are useless contrarian contests.
There's my unpopular opinion.

I posted, but... you're not wrong lol ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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LithoJazzoSphere
Veteran

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:11 pm
Posts: 3142
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:19 pm 
 

Benedict Donald wrote:
LithoJazzoSphere wrote:

Have you heard any of these on my list?

Spoiler: show
Vetrar Draugurinn
Witherfall


Thanks for sharing. I'd never heard of these bands but am really digging what I'm hearing and will def buy these!


Cool, Witherfall is a bit of a forum cult favorite, but Vetrar Draugurinn is pretty under the radar, I'm pretty much the only person who seems to know about them.

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Bushido
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:38 am
Posts: 35
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:38 pm 
 

Opeth would be a lot better with Tatiana from Jinjer as the singer.

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DoomMetalAlchemist
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:10 am
Posts: 2169
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:13 pm 
 

Flower Travellin' Band shouldn't be included on MA as a "selected exception." They should be included on MA because Satori is a metal album.

Taken By Force is the least good of the pre-Lovedrive Scorpions albums (and yes I am including Lonesome Crow).

On the subject of nu-metal: Back when bands like Korn, Linkin Park, System of a Down, Staind, etc etc etc ruled the charts, nu-metal and alternative metal were conflated with each other both as nu-metal, and the term "nu-metal" was the vilified element in the metal community. And while most of the biggest "metal" bands of that era are indeed nu-metal (Korn, Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park), the majority of them were in fact not nu-metal but alternative metal. And although I always hated nu-metal, I have come to the conclusion that alternative metal is much much worse. Twist by Korn is one of the worst songs I have ever heard in my life. But to their credit, at least they try to be interesting. And although I hate their music, you can tell they put effort into their performance. The bulk of alternative metal to me, like Staind for example.... they are guilty of the much bigger sin of being incredibly DULL. Dull songwriting, dull guitar playing, dull vocals, dull drumming, lifeless, passionless performances. First of all in literally any art form whether music or not, the absolute worst thing you can do as an artist is to elicit boredom as a reaction. And this to me was alternative metal. Nu-metal was supremely annoying, but at least they were trying and being sincere about it. Now that's my subjective opinion, but what objectively separates nu-metal from alternative metal is that nu-metal famously brought elements of hip hop to heavy guitar music, alternative metal on the other hand, basically took the absolute worst sub-genre in the entire history of the rock parent genre (ok that little part was subjective), post-grunge, and dialed up the Alice in Chains and Soundgarden guitar tones up a tad, and probably tool too. No hip hop to be found here. But back in the day they were all lumped in under nu-metal. Probably because they were all on the radio and all used guitars that were either 7 string or detuned.

Rage Against the Machine was basically stoner metal meets hip hop

It really bugs me how among the metal community Beyond the Realms of Death has seemed to become the pinnacle of Judas Priest songs when Dreamer Deceiver is such a superior song in every conceivable way, and in a similar style (ballad) not to mention that the first half of the chorus riff of Beyond the Realms of Death was blatantly lifted from Bad Company. Having said that it is a good song though.

I can't take seriously people who say Ozzy was always a bad singer. He ABSOLUTELY was a great singer from Paranoid through Never Say Die, and you could arguably widen that spectrum in either direction. He eventually became shit for sure. But the only Black Sabbath album it's even possible to argue he sucked on was the debut (well I guess now there's also 13, but I digress...)

Tony Iommi is my idol, but he hasn't put out a good album under any name other than Black Sabbath. Yes, Fused sucks. Yes, Glenn Hughs sucks. Maybe Glenn Hughs sucks so much that I would enjoy Fused with any other vocalist. I don't know. 13 and The Devil You Know are about equal in being, "eh, there's a couple good songs here."


This next one I was actually contemplating making in the FFA thread as a general random thought but it might fit here.... I have no idea of anybody's opinion of this as I've never seen it brought up..... but are we as the entire metal community in the history of the genre just going to ignore that Nicko McBrain is the weirdest fucking name ever? First of all, I've never heard of one single other human being besides him named Nicko (Nico, sure), and secondly, I have never heard of one single human other than him named McBrain. Thirdly, even if McBrain ISN'T that uncommon of a name.... it's still a weird fucking name. Are there people out there named McSpleen and McGallbladder too?


There were a lot of comments in this thread I had thoughts on but reading this 5 page thread all at once and thinking of contributions made me forget most of what I want to respond to. But I do remember that I do generally agree with the Dio band being pretty unremarkable. Holy Diver is a great album, and oddly enough I am fond of Master of the Moon. Across his long solo discography are a smattering of other songs I really like, but not albums as a whole. But Dio the singer is a god, not just because of his immortal voice, but also because he was the lead singer on 6 of my all time favorite albums: Ritchie Blackmore's Rainbow, Rising, Long Live Rock n Roll, Heaven and Hell, Mob Rules, and Dehumanizer (ordered chronologically, not by favorites). Pair Dio with a great guitar player and watch the magic happen. The problem is that guitarists such as Vivian Campbell, while by no means a slouch, is just not Tony Iommi or Ritchie Blackmore, and neither is any other Dio band guitarist.

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LithoJazzoSphere
Veteran

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:11 pm
Posts: 3142
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:30 pm 
 

DoomMetalAlchemist wrote:
alternative metal on the other hand, basically took the absolute worst sub-genre in the entire history of the rock parent genre (ok that little part was subjective), post-grunge, and dialed up the Alice in Chains and Soundgarden guitar tones up a tad, and probably tool too. No hip hop to be found here.


That's not the origin of alternative metal though. Faith No More, Primus, Tool, Helmet, etc., they all predate post-grunge, often even predating grunge itself. The problem is that even after nu-metal faded there continued to be less popular bands still playing heavy, aggressive music that neither fit in with alternative rock scene nor with the metal we document here, but rock radio had been freefalling in prominence, so there wasn't as much discussion to name these micro-movements. So everything gets dumped into the same bin of "alternative metal", which tells you very little about how they will actually sound, just that they'll be kind of heavy and won't sound like they could have existed before glam metal was dying out.

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Pitiless Wanderer
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:34 pm
Posts: 1563
Location: Ankara
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:53 pm 
 

Megadeth isn't metal, and literally everything they've done - aside from a few solos - is atrocious.

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Benedict Donald
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:36 am
Posts: 580
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:57 pm 
 

Pitiless Wanderer wrote:
Megadeth isn't metal...


Huh?!?

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Benedict Donald
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:36 am
Posts: 580
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:00 pm 
 

77hjrttfred wrote:
HMotorhead have had some weak albums in their catalogue. Both 'March Or Die' and 'Bastards' are weak albums. And '1916' is also overrated. This was a down period for the band.

- 'The X Factor' is clearly the best IM album form the 90's. Maybe this one is not too unpopular, but people dismiss it because of Blaze's vocals. I'm not a fan of his vocals either, but this album definitely has the best songs/songwriting in that era.


I agree that "March Or Die" and "1916" are lame (especially '16), but "Bastards" kicks all kinds of azz, to these ears!!

The issue with "X factor" was never Blaze's vocals. Rather, it was the attrocious anti-metal production. The guitar was mixed to sound like it was recorded under a blanket and under water. Totally ridiculous approach. Harris has, at time, been his own worst enemy.
Despite the shit sound, "X factor" is a fantastic album! (Sadly, the same cant be said for the collection of B-sides which followed it.)

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Zelkiiro
Pounding the world with a fish of steel

Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:30 pm
Posts: 7178
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:02 pm 
 

Pitiless Wanderer wrote:
Megadeth isn't metal,

Uhhh...Megadeth are pretty shit, but they are definitively metal. Whut in the wurld kinda line of thinking brought you to that conclusion?!
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Ill-Starred Son
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
Posts: 1224
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:03 pm 
 

Pitiless Wanderer wrote:
Megadeth isn't metal, and literally everything they've done - aside from a few solos - is atrocious.


Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with everyone else, if this isn't sarcasm, it's not just unpopular (the part about them not being metal), it's factually untrue.

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77hjrttfred
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:15 pm
Posts: 203
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:46 pm 
 

Benedict Donald wrote:
The issue with "X factor" was never Blaze's vocals. Rather, it was the attrocious anti-metal production. The guitar was mixed to sound like it was recorded under a blanket and under water. Totally ridiculous approach. Harris has, at time, been his own worst enemy.
Despite the shit sound, "X factor" is a fantastic album! (Sadly, the same cant be said for the collection of B-sides which followed it.)


Well, we are kind of in agreement. I also think the weak production hurts the record.

Even so, there are plenty of people in the "No Bruce, No Iron Maiden" camp. I know some huge IM fans that never listen to or don't own the Blaze era albums. They never gave them a chance in the first place.

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Hecatomb867
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:56 pm
Posts: 114
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:37 am 
 

pressingtoplead13 wrote:
Steven Tucker is a better vocalist than David Vincent.


Yes yes yes he is. David Vincent's vocals, and his atrocious lyrics, has always kept me from loving the first four Morbid Angel albums (though I do like them). Steve Tucker also gets bonus points for not being a Nikki Sixx wannabe unlike his predecessor...

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FLIPPITYFLOOP
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:09 pm
Posts: 1058
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:10 am 
 

- Emperor's discography is flawless

- Maybe not controversial, but my own take - if you listen to Emperor's catalog, then immediately follow it with Ihsahn's solo albums all in chronological order, the genre transition is nearly seamless, even if Amr and In The Nightside Eclipse sound worlds apart

- The Serpent And The Sphere is a great Agalloch album, and their best production. Honor Found In Decay is also a remarkable Neurosis album and those who shit on it need to unclog their ears.

- Most stoner metal sounds like poor Black Sabbath cover songs with very few bands doing anything remotely noteworthy and playing the same riffs as each other

- Agreed that Blue Oyster Cult should be on the Archives, if you include influential legacy acts. Also agree with Slipknot, and I'll even mention Tool while I'm at it (I don't lie awake at night thinking about it, but this IS about unpopular opinions, so....)

- Most instrumental shred-guitar rock and metal sounds like a cheap backing track for the guitarist to wank over that in itself has very little lasting power. Not knocking the players themselves, as many of them are fantastic, but while flawless technique, good phrasing and note choice is definitely an asset and is enjoyable in the moment, I won't be replaying your record unless you can write a good fucking SONG at the end of the day. Angel Vivaldi does this exceptionally well; I wish more players did too.

- I believe many metal listeners follow current trends in the scene as opposed to having their own individual tastes.

- Newest album aside, Deafheaven is a black metal band both in execution and in the note and chord choices that give black metal its particular flavour. They hybrid black metal with other genres, but are still black metal

- If you are criticizing a genre you are unfamiliar with, and don't understand the reasonings behind what makes it appeal to its fans, you have no business writing a review shitting on one of its albums because (sorry but it's true) "you just don't GET IT, maaaaaaan"

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MetlaNZ
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:45 pm
Posts: 1386
Location: Lost in Necropolis
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:49 am 
 

I'm getting triggered left, right and bloody centre by this fuckin thread. I don't know where to start. Well done SmallPoxie you sadistic bastard.

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Dungeon_Vic
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:00 am
Posts: 1226
Location: Greece
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:06 am 
 

Apparently my unpopular opinion is that 1916 is one of the band's best and (probably) my favorite Motorhead album.
March or Die is notably inferior but still has the s/t, which is one of the band's best songs.

Bastards is great. And I believe Burner to be the band's Painkiller and in both cases the new drummer makes a huge difference.
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King Diamond: A Royal Tribute (short guide to King Diamond's discography)

Vic's Dungeon:

The Dungeon Awards for 2017

Best of 2017, Part II: 5+1 more albums

Let's talk about Ghost (aka Stop the Madness)

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77hjrttfred
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:15 pm
Posts: 203
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:40 am 
 

Dungeon_Vic wrote:
Apparently my unpopular opinion is that 1916 is one of the band's best and (probably) my favorite Motorhead album.


I don't think anyway is saying it's a bad album, but maybe a bit overrated. For the record, I would probably give it around 75% on the MA rating. Personally, I find the production overly polished for my liking.

Just out of interest, what would you rate as some of the weaker Motorhead albums?

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Morn Of Solace
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:19 am
Posts: 2410
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:51 am 
 

Ok, my time for mildly hot takes:

Too much people listen to bands with their eyes rather than their ears: bands like Agalloch, Cobalt, WITR, Alcest and Absu are way more interesting in concepts and imagery rather than in the actual music.

I'll take the predictable Slayer-infused fun of Slaughter of The Soul over the meandering gloom of The Red in the Sky Is Ours every time of the year.

Similar things happen with Sentenced (the alcholic recklessness of the Taneli Jarva days beats the sad boy monotony of the later albums) and Therion (no symphonic pompousness could rival the third and fourth album)

Nuit Noire is amazing and people are just afraid of themselves. It takes bravery to write lyrics like Scrapheap! on a black metal album :lol:

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Dungeon_Vic
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:00 am
Posts: 1226
Location: Greece
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:59 am 
 

77hjrttfred wrote:
Just out of interest, what would you rate as some of the weaker Motorhead albums?


Sacrifice was the last one I spent a lot of time with and liked, Snake Bite Love was the one that I was really bored with and since then I haven't listened to the final era much or paid much attention - I do like Inferno quite a bit though.

Having said that, I would say my least favorites are On Parole (not crazy about Motorhead either), March or Die and Snake Bite Love, which are all albums that I have listened to carefully and been disappointed with. I think if I had paid much attention to the last few albums I would include some of them here as well but I am not really qualified to comment on them.

For the record, I think Another Perfect Day is underrated and a fine album in its own right.
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King Diamond: A Royal Tribute (short guide to King Diamond's discography)

Vic's Dungeon:

The Dungeon Awards for 2017

Best of 2017, Part II: 5+1 more albums

Let's talk about Ghost (aka Stop the Madness)

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Tulcakelume
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:09 pm
Posts: 44
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:02 am 
 

Some off the top of my head:

1. Dream Theater are boring. There's progressive metal, and then there's musical masturbation.
2. Opeth are also boring.
3. Folk metal is great (if you ignore the tons of 'party and drinking' bands/songs).
4. Thrash metal is only good live. The records don't do the genre justice.
5. Stoner metal is overrated. It was good for the first few years of its existence, then it just fell flat in the 2000's and onwards.
6. There should be more bands in the vein of early Manowar (first four albums) with singers that have the same power as Eric Adams had back then (besides Virgin Steele's 90's output).

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InnesI
The Goat Fucker

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:19 pm
Posts: 2024
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:15 am 
 

I think I had a few nominees in another thread like this a few years back so I tried to limit myself to more recent stuff. I only found one which is that I think Iron Maidens Senjutsu probably is among my top-4 Iron Maiden albums of all time. The other three are Brave New World, The X-Factor and Seventh Son of a Seventh Son (which itself is unpopular or controversial). I just think there is more depth to Senjutsu compared to how I feel about much of the back catalogue. It also doesn't have any clear bad tracks to my ears which is often the fall of otherwise good Iron Maiden albums.
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LordStenhammar
Veteran

Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:46 am
Posts: 2567
Location: Not in Sweden
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:17 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:
LordStenhammar wrote:
Savatage's Power of the Night is better than Hall of the Mountain King.


I wouldn't go that far, but it is better than people say... the first four tracks are obviously the best but the whole thing is solid and none of the tracks are bad. They have an inimitable, badass style and that old school swagger.

I also wouldn't call Rust in Peace overrated or whatever; I get why everyone loves it but I just don't really play it anymore, maybe because I hate Mustaine so much. I'll try it again sometime soon.


Sorry, late reply, but Hall... only has White Witch, title track and Strange Wings. The rest is just not for me. They tried to be progressive, or something, and it just doesn't work. I want catchy anthems like Power of the Night!


One more:

- Pagan Altar really isn't that good. I've tried to listen to their albums, mainly the first one and Mythical & Magical, and blah...


Last edited by LordStenhammar on Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Twin_guitar_attack
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:27 am
Posts: 1477
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:34 am 
 

There's something really off about the sound on all Sabbath albums after Seventh Star. People rip on Born Again, but the rawness is part of what I enjoy about it.

From The Eternal Idol onward they still had great songs, and stellar vocal performances, but the production and guitar tone are so flat compared to the earlier albums it takes all these great elements and renders the overall package kinda boring. I see people on here praise Headless Cross as their best album, and it really could've been, but it just sounds...off

As for stoner metal, people rip on Ozzy, but I don't think I've ever actually heard a stoner metal band with better vocals than his on the first 6 sabbath albums.

Unrelated, someone needs to tell Devin Townsend he doesn't need to record every idea that comes into his head. Not every album needs to be ~80 minutes long AND have a bonus disc of demos. Huge fan of his but I don't think he's done an album since Addicted that doesn't either feel way too long, or have filler tracks. He's just released two albums and I don't think I can even be arsed to give them a go.

And on that note, what was wrong with 30-40 minute albums? Why do most "legacy" bands these days feel they have to record 60+ minute albums these days? Maiden, Priest and Metallica are culprits, but a lot of 80s bands do it these days, and the albums aren't good enough to warrant it. Less is more.
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Last edited by Twin_guitar_attack on Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Crossbones
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:21 pm
Posts: 42
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:41 am 
 

Both British Steel and Screaming for Vengeance are immensely overrated albums, the former more so than the latter. I believe British Steel is only rated so highly by the music press and Priest themselves because it helped them become megastars and top some charts. Screaming for Vengeance has The Hellion/Electric Eye, Riding on the Wind and the title track and that's about it.

Speaking of Priest, almost all of their post-reunion-with-Halford stuff (save for Nostradamus) is better than nearly all of their 80s material bar Defenders of the Faith.

No Prayer for the Dying is the best 90's Iron Maiden album. Senjutsu is the best of their 21st century work. The Book of Souls is one of Maiden's worst albums, right up there with the Blaze era material.

Live after Death isn't that good. Not even a top five Iron Maiden live album - I'd give the top spot to Rock in Rio 2001 and Flight 666 above it.

Pantera is a mediocre band with an embarassing 'tough guy' image. They also inspired much, much worse acts to follow in a similar vein.

Motorhead peaked with Orgasmatron and did nothing of note afterwards.

Metalcore is garbage, but I don't think that's terribly controversial here.

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anamelessghoul
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:38 am
Posts: 13
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:53 am 
 

Anthrax sucks, just like most thrash.
Black metal image also sucks. Michael Gira is much more terrifying with his cowboy hat.

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markhebb
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:32 am
Posts: 188
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:03 am 
 

77hjrttfred wrote:
Dungeon_Vic wrote:
Apparently my unpopular opinion is that 1916 is one of the band's best and (probably) my favorite Motorhead album.


I don't think anyway is saying it's a bad album, but maybe a bit overrated. For the record, I would probably give it around 75% on the MA rating. Personally, I find the production overly polished for my liking.

Just out of interest, what would you rate as some of the weaker Motorhead albums?


I adore 1916 - great record, some cool diverse tracks. It’s my clear second favourite after Inferno…

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CannibalCorpse
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:55 pm
Posts: 660
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:25 am 
 

My favourite three Iron Maiden albums are Somewhere in Time, The X Factor and Brave New World.

Bruce Dickinson's Chemical Wedding is better than all Iron Maiden albums.

Jugulator is one of my three favourite Judas Priest albums.

My three favourite Black Sabbath albums are (in no order) Dehumanizer, Headless Cross and Tyr.

I know I'm a weirdo sometimes but that's fine with me.
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therealvivs
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 4:26 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:30 am 
 

This thread is pure gold.
It's actually quite cool to see that people who love this style of music can have such different opinions, but that's nothing new, of course.

Someone please stick it and change the title to "shit people say that will make you laugh your tits off" or something...

Highlights so far for me include:

- I wish black and death metal would just go away;

- Early Samael destroys Norway;

- Megadeth isn't metal;

Just brilliant.

My unpopular opinion? I'm a fan of good/adequate production values, even in black metal.
I don't really buy (for the most part) the entire "it gives it such a specific atmosphere, bro" way of thinking.
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LithoJazzoSphere
Veteran

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:11 pm
Posts: 3142
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:50 am 
 

Tulcakelume wrote:
1. Dream Theater are boring. There's progressive metal, and then there's musical masturbation.


Isn't that a pretty popular opinion, or at least a divisive one? They were the internet's darling in the early 00s as far as I could tell, but by the mid-late 00s a lot of people had turned on them, and they've become the poster boy for excess. They have their contingent of fans (I'd still consider myself one of them after a falling out for awhile), but it seems like it's been shrinking. Their '19 album, which a fair number of people elsewhere and maybe here considered one of their best in many years, still didn't even manage to get into our year-end top 150, with only one top 5 vote.

Crossbones wrote:
Pantera is a mediocre band with an embarassing 'tough guy' image. They also inspired much, much worse acts to follow in a similar vein.


Didn't the recent groove thread prove that's a quite common opinion?

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anamelessghoul
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:38 am
Posts: 13
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:24 am 
 

King Diamond is unbearable.

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Ball Cupper
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:51 pm
Posts: 196
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:40 am 
 

Here's one for ya - Same Difference by Entombed is one of their more interesting and good albums. Much better than Wolverine Blues. Good song structures, nice tones, just a good album.
Related - Swallow the Snake by Desultory is not a bad album at all.
And perhaps a bit less controversial, but Convulse's Reflections is a good album, I actually prefer it to World Without God.

The weird thing is, I don't really like much death 'n' roll, either.
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Demon Fang
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:42 am
Posts: 242
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:50 am 
 

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
Crossbones wrote:
Pantera is a mediocre band with an embarassing 'tough guy' image. They also inspired much, much worse acts to follow in a similar vein.


Didn't the recent groove thread prove that's a quite common opinion?

Yeah I'm starting to consider Cowboys from Hell and Great Southern Trendkill to be superior to Power Metal as an unpopular opinion.

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Pizzasmasher
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:16 pm
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:11 am 
 

Ball Cupper wrote:
Here's one for ya - Same Difference by Entombed is one of their more interesting and good albums. Much better than Wolverine Blues. Good song structures, nice tones, just a good album.
Related - Swallow the Snake by Desultory is not a bad album at all.
And perhaps a bit less controversial, but Convulse's Reflections is a good album, I actually prefer it to World Without God.

The weird thing is, I don't really like much death 'n' roll, either.



I did like same Difference as well more then the two albums before. But the truly underrated stuff came after same difference.
I think death n roll is a genre that doesnt really exist: more on the paper then everything else, right?

Second wave BM is the only Genre that didnt peak with ist "originals". Specially DM and Thrash are Genres where you find nearly nothing as good as its classics, while in BM a lot is at least on the same level or even much better.

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Nocturnal_Evil
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:00 am
Posts: 136
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:07 am 
 

I've never seen so many wrong opinions in one place before!

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Cosmic_Equilibrium
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:03 pm
Posts: 634
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:33 am 
 

Some more that have just come to mind:

* Bruce Dickinson's Accident of Birth and Chemical Wedding albums are better than 90% of Maiden's back catalogue. The only Maiden albums I would put above or equal to them are AMOLAD/DOD/X Factor/Somewhere In Time/self titled. Accident of Birth in particular is fantastic, one of the best albums released in any genre of music over the last 30 years and an absolute career high point that quite frankly very few heavy music acts have ever matched.


* South of Heaven is unquestionably the best Slayer album, followed by Show No Mercy.


* The main reason Tool are not on the Archives is probably down to snobbery. Despite being not nu-metal at all, a lot of kids in the 90s/00s had their albums in rotation alongside Limp Bizkit et al, and IMO this has led to them being (inaccurately) linked to the nu-metal/alt metal scene. I'm willing to concede a lot of their earlier work falls more into prog rock and alt rock at times, but Lateralus is a metal album, blatantly metallic riffs and dynamics abound there. And for what it's worth, I suspect the aforementioned subconscious snobbery/association has precluded Rammstein and Slipknot (post Iowa) from being included on the Archives too.


* People who seriously think that the Tony Martin era of Sabbath is the high water mark of the band are on crack. Firstly, Geezer isn't there (apart from on Cross Purposes), so all those records are basically Iommi solo joints with the Sabbath name slapped on them (IMO in order for it to be credibly 'Sabbath' in some form it has to include Geezer and Tony). This wouldn't be much of an issue if the music was stellar, but it's just.... not. OK, it's not abysmal or anything, some songs are pretty great (the opener on Tyr for example), but at the end of the day it's firstly pretty unremarkable late 80s fantasy metal with somewhat better riffs than on average, and then mid 90s grunge metal/hard rock with fairly undistinguished songs.

The Martin albums all get about 80-90% reviews on the Archives (well maybe not Forbidden) which is one of the more puzzling aspects of this site: I personally would struggle to give any of them much above 65% at best. I mean, Dehumanizer comes in the middle of the Martin era and comparing the two in terms of riffs, song writing and attitude is like night and day.


* Now if you want a fantastic Iommi solo album, as mentioned earlier by someone on a previous page 2005's Fused with Glenn Hughes is excellent and possibly the most overlooked record of any major metal artist post 2000. Especially songs like Grace. Ever wondered what happened to all those riffs that Iommi had stored up for the planned early 00s Ozzy reunion album that was never made? There's your answer.


Last edited by Cosmic_Equilibrium on Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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acid_bukkake
SAD!

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:45 am
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:51 am 
 

Thexhumed wrote:
acid_bukkake wrote:

-Gimmick bands "get it" more than most, and there's no such thing as a successful musical act of any style that doesn't have one.


What's Iron Maiden gimmick? Eddie?

They're a band that's been using Satanic imagery for album covers since the early days and writing songs about horror movies, myth, and war in addition to elaborate and theatrical stage shows. "Gimmick" doesn't just mean "wearing costumes."
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FirebathDan
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 2:32 pm
Posts: 1438
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:57 am 
 

EvergreenSherbert wrote:
Meshuggah isn't djent. They inspired the, ahem... "genre", by using 8 string guitars and polyrhythmic grooves, but the core elements of "djent" don't even sound like Meshuggah. It's usually just metalcore with too much riff slicing. The only thing Meshuggah has in common with the modern djent scene is that they're both low, and maybe use some weird time signatures or polyrhythms.

The only song I know where Meshuggah uses anything that sounds like riff slicing is New Millennium Cyanide Christ. And the band's style wasn't even fully developed at that point.


This isn’t really an opinion, this is essentially the fact of the matter.

On topic, with select exceptions, the “conventional”/“pop” song structuring (variations on verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/chorus) is superior to any other type of approach.
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CreepingDeath16
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2021 12:49 am
Posts: 93
Location: Hyperborea
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:14 pm 
 

Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
The main reason Tool are not on the Archives is probably down to snobbery. Despite being not nu-metal at all, a lot of kids in the 90s/00s had their albums in rotation alongside Limp Bizkit et al, and IMO this has led to them being (inaccurately) linked to the nu-metal/alt metal scene. I'm willing to concede a lot of their earlier work falls more into prog rock and alt rock at times, but Lateralus is a metal album, blatantly metallic riffs and dynamics abound there. And for what it's worth, I suspect the aforementioned subconscious snobbery/association has precluded Rammstein and Slipknot (post Iowa) from being included on the Archives too.

I hear Tool as a progressive grunge band. With Lateralus they shifted more towards prog and that's their most borderline and heavy album, sure, but not metal. I'm also fine with Rammstein being excluded, they are such a strange bird of their own that I don't mentally lump them into or with anything. They're just Rammstein.

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Ball Cupper
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:51 pm
Posts: 196
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:16 pm 
 

FirebathDan wrote:
On topic, with select exceptions, the “conventional”/“pop” song structuring (variations on verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/chorus) is superior to any other type of approach.


Ooh good shout. I don't 100% agree, but I do think that the conventional approach to songwriting results in better songwriting. As opposed to the "riff salad" approach that results in every song being interchangeable and very linear.

Riff-after-riff-after-riff is damn boring a lot of the time. And "oh let's completely change the tone of the song" ideas just feel kinda wank.

Songwriting, more like Dongwriting
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EvergreenSherbert
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:48 pm
Posts: 392
Location: Directly behind you
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:46 pm 
 

FirebathDan wrote:
On topic, with select exceptions, the “conventional”/“pop” song structuring (variations on verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/chorus) is superior to any other type of approach.

It depends on the type of band, but I'll agree with you one this one. Unless you're Opeth or something and you can pull of a song where no part repeats, you usually gotta come back to something. Even if that's just having two consistent verses, it makes a song so much easier to follow and remember. I think Revocation does that well, they usually have a couple obvious verses mixed with some choruses and bridges.
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