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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 30880
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:47 pm 
 

Some bands do the riff-after-riff, super complex metal songwriting very well, but yeah there were some times on this site where literally anything that wasn't that was decried as some horrible shallow pop music for babies or something, just so silly.

For that matter, groove/Pantera-esque shit like Agent Steel - Alienigma doesn't have to be bad, if the riffs are as good as Pantera or that AS album then I'm fine with it.

There was just a peculiar metal elitism that ended up going way too far with these kinds of things.
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Spiner202
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 3:32 pm
Posts: 2421
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:50 pm 
 

77hjrttfred wrote:
tahu157 wrote:
I don't have any statistics to back this up but my guess is that session musicians are far more common than most people realize. I do think it's kind of a let down to find out that you're listening to some rando musician instead of the band that you love. That said, I don't think it is any more lame for an all female band to use session musicians than it is for an all male band to do it.


I agree with you. The use of 'uncredited' session musicians, particularly on recorded albums, happens a lot more that people think. I mean, KISS were doing this kind of thing 40 years ago. There was the example with Melechesh a few years ago

I haven't read the entire thread, but I wanted to chime in to say that KISS doing this is more likely a function of them working with Bob Ezrin, who started doing this while he worked with Alice Cooper. They were having trouble with Glen Buxton at the time, so Bob brought in a few of the guys he worked with to work on Billion Dollar Babies. I guess it's the same sort of thing because KISS was having trouble with Ace, but I'll take any chance possible to talk about Alice Cooper.

Which I suppose leads to my unpopular opinion: Alice should be no the archives. There's no question in my mind that Raise Your Fist and Yell is 100% a metal album, and arguably Brutal Planet is as well. Even something like Hey Stoopid is equivalent to what Ozzy was doing at the time (though I'll acknowledge that Ozzy was more metal prior to 1991).

Another unpopular opinion, or more accurately, a complaint: I think death and black metal have led to the influx of a lot of fans who just don't enjoy metal the same way I do. I like death metal a lot, and black metal to a much lesser extent, but thrash metal has been completely dismissed over the last 10 years by a ton of metal fans. Great bands like Laceration, Schizophrenia (wait for the album; it's not like the EP), Enforced, and even Black Fast have felt the need to make their sound more extreme and less thrashy because that's what fans want from them. Meanwhile, power metal falls further from relevancy because there aren't even as many people willing to give it a shot anymore. Trad holds strong to some extent, but people just listen to USPM bands and classic trad bands (never their new stuff, even when it's great) and call it a day there.

I guess I'm the ultimate example of that Principal Skinner meme, but I think that understanding the history of metal makes for a better appreciation of the genre as a whole.
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raumr
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:11 pm
Posts: 1974
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:11 pm 
 

Black metal is the least racist of all the metal genres.

Bolt Thrower is possibly the most overrated band I've ever listened to.

Clive Burr's drumming was superior to Nicko McBrain's.

The X Factor is better than Piece of Mind.

Cold Lake is nowhere near as bad as people say, and I enjoyed it more than Into the Pandemonium.

St. Anger would be a great album if the song lengths were cut in half. The drum sound was fine.

Seventh Star is a great Black Sabbath album.

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Pizzasmasher
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:16 pm
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:15 pm 
 

Spiner202 wrote:
77hjrttfred wrote:
tahu157 wrote:
I don't have any statistics to back this up but my guess is that session musicians are far more common than most people realize. I do think it's kind of a let down to find out that you're listening to some rando musician instead of the band that you love. That said, I don't think it is any more lame for an all female band to use session musicians than it is for an all male band to do it.


I agree with you. The use of 'uncredited' session musicians, particularly on recorded albums, happens a lot more that people think. I mean, KISS were doing this kind of thing 40 years ago. There was the example with Melechesh a few years ago

I haven't read the entire thread, but I wanted to chime in to say that KISS doing this is more likely a function of them working with Bob Ezrin, who started doing this while he worked with Alice Cooper. They were having trouble with Glen Buxton at the time, so Bob brought in a few of the guys he worked with to work on Billion Dollar Babies. I guess it's the same sort of thing because KISS was having trouble with Ace, but I'll take any chance possible to talk about Alice Cooper.

Which I suppose leads to my unpopular opinion: Alice should be no the archives. There's no question in my mind that Raise Your Fist and Yell is 100% a metal album, and arguably Brutal Planet is as well. Even something like Hey Stoopid is equivalent to what Ozzy was doing at the time (though I'll acknowledge that Ozzy was more metal prior to 1991).

Another unpopular opinion, or more accurately, a complaint: I think death and black metal have led to the influx of a lot of fans who just don't enjoy metal the same way I do. I like death metal a lot, and black metal to a much lesser extent, but thrash metal has been completely dismissed over the last 10 years by a ton of metal fans. Great bands like Laceration, Schizophrenia (wait for the album; it's not like the EP), Enforced, and even Black Fast have felt the need to make their sound more extreme and less thrashy because that's what fans want from them. Meanwhile, power metal falls further from relevancy because there aren't even as many people willing to give it a shot anymore. Trad holds strong to some extent, but people just listen to USPM bands and classic trad bands (never their new stuff, even when it's great) and call it a day there.

I guess I'm the ultimate example of that Principal Skinner meme, but I think that understanding the history of metal makes for a better appreciation of the genre as a whole.


Do you enjoy Inculter or Ripper? Apart from that i agree with you, although im not sure what i shall think of the new Laceration; i think the demolition hammer approach did suit them far better.

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Spiner202
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:31 pm 
 

Ripper is great - Experiment of Existence is one of the best modern thrash albums! The bass playing is off the charts, and I think they're a lot more creative in general than similar sounding bands. I've checked out Inculter before but it didn't stick.

In general, I'm not a huge fan of the sloppy black/thrash bands that most people say are the better modern thrash bands - they have the same problems I have with a lot of death and black metal bands, which is that most bands don't really write songs anymore.
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LithoJazzoSphere
Veteran

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:11 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:35 pm 
 

Spiner202 wrote:
Another unpopular opinion, or more accurately, a complaint: I think death and black metal have led to the influx of a lot of fans who just don't enjoy metal the same way I do. I like death metal a lot, and black metal to a much lesser extent, but thrash metal has been completely dismissed over the last 10 years by a ton of metal fans. Great bands like Laceration, Schizophrenia (wait for the album; it's not like the EP), Enforced, and even Black Fast have felt the need to make their sound more extreme and less thrashy because that's what fans want from them. Meanwhile, power metal falls further from relevancy because there aren't even as many people willing to give it a shot anymore. Trad holds strong to some extent, but people just listen to USPM bands and classic trad bands (never their new stuff, even when it's great) and call it a day there.

I guess I'm the ultimate example of that Principal Skinner meme, but I think that understanding the history of metal makes for a better appreciation of the genre as a whole.


I sort of agree with this. I enjoy plenty of extreme metal myself, but it seems like so much of the metal landscape has shifted to focusing just on that end of it, paying much less attention to the other flavors of metal. I like more diversity and variety in my listening. I suspect other populations of metal fans might even find the idea that we have a significant contingent of people here who don't consider thrash or melodeath to be extreme to be baffling.

raumr wrote:
Black metal is the least racist of all the metal genres.


I hate to even mention this because it's pouring gas on what could make the thread double in length and make for obnoxious reading, but you're gonna have to at least explain this one a little. At bare minimum BM is basically the only subgenre with a whole wing of it devoted to toying with that theme.

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Hecatomb867
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:56 pm
Posts: 113
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:41 pm 
 

raumr wrote:
Black metal is the least racist of all the metal genres.


The fact that NSBM is considered a legitimate sub-genre by many black metal fans completely disproves this nonsense and intentionally contrarian statement.

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Benedict Donald
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:36 am
Posts: 549
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:47 pm 
 

raumr wrote:
Clive Burr's drumming was superior to Nicko McBrain's.


This seems to be the consensus view nowadays.

raumr wrote:
The X Factor is better than Piece of Mind.


I love X factor, but there's no scenario, not even in a parallel universe, in which I can see this as being true!

raumr wrote:
St. Anger...The drum sound was fine.


:0. Now Ive heard everything. LOL

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Deathdoom1992
Metalhead

Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 9:19 am
Posts: 449
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:48 pm 
 

I'm surprised this thread has lasted this long.

My ones are basically just a bunch of cult/classic/well regarded albums I don't like: Dance of December Souls (god the vocals are bad), Eternal Nightmare (ditto), Killers (soooo much filler), 2112 (dull, Hemispheres does the whole super long song thing much better), British Steel (dumb stadium rock), Seven Churches (sloppy and amateurish) and Nightmare Logic (after Executioner's Tax every song sounds practically the same and you can't convince me otherwise).

Left Hand Path isn't that good. I mean come on, it has 24 reviews with an average of 99%. It's a good album for sure but I don't really think it's the god tier release it's said to be. It also suffers from putting the title track first, which is just oceans better than any other song on there so it makes the rest of the tracks feel worse than they are since they're so far outshined by the opener. I'd rather listen to Wolverine Blues tbh.

Also I'm not really sure if this is an unpopular opinion or just a personal preference but ultra-gurgly, bdm style vocals ruin any song. Like I love Dying Fetus' riffs but I just can't tolerate John Gallagher's voice.

That's pretty much all I have, feel free to tell me how wrong and ignorant I am :lol:

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CreepingDeath16
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2021 12:49 am
Posts: 87
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:52 pm 
 

raumr wrote:
Black metal is the least racist of all the metal genres.

"In my opinion the Earth is flat."

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MetalVermont
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2021 8:23 pm
Posts: 133
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:07 pm 
 

As usual, this kind of thread has sunk to the level of batshit crazy hot takes that have no basis in reality. But congrats, you got our attention.

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EvergreenSherbert
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:48 pm
Posts: 380
Location: Directly behind you
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:08 pm 
 

MetalVermont wrote:
As usual, this kind of thread has sunk to the level of batshit crazy hot takes that have no basis in reality. But congrats, you got our attention.

Isn't that more fun though?
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des91
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Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:51 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:27 pm 
 

Only have time for short comment at the moment, but the first one that popped in my head:

Burn My Eyes is the only Machine Head album worthy of being a classic listen through the whole album. And said album is a fucking perfect album basically. It shows that Groove Metal was not all shit, along with a couple other records.

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EvergreenSherbert
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:36 pm 
 

My opinion is that the lyrics of Machine Head's "Do Or Die" are rather profound and compelling. Oh, and St. Anger is absolutely Metallica's best album.
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Oblarg
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:36 pm 
 

I don't particularly care for Dio's solo work, and I like Tony Martin's work in Sabbath better than Dio's.

The man was still a fantastic singer and a huge influence on a lot of music I like, though.
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Deathdoom1992
Metalhead

Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 9:19 am
Posts: 449
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:43 pm 
 

EvergreenSherbert wrote:
Oh, and St. Anger is absolutely Metallica's best album.


Wut? How can you possibly reach this conclusion?

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EvergreenSherbert
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:48 pm
Posts: 380
Location: Directly behind you
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:47 pm 
 

Deathdoom1992 wrote:
Wut? How can you possibly reach this conclusion?

By thinking of the best way to fuck with y'all :-D
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MeavyHetal
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:54 pm
Posts: 548
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:03 pm 
 

I enjoy Volbeat's music (I guess you can call them a guilty pleasure of mine)

Simple, catchy pop-metal, not much depth at all but its dumb fun.

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Commisaur
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:16 am
Posts: 196
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:09 pm 
 

Bolt Thrower’s first album , In Battle There is No Law!!, is incredibly underrated. The mix is murky and punky-crusty and that has its place, BUT just imagine for a moment if this album had been recorded at Morrisound Studios under Scott Burns direction in 1990 and it was given the same guitar/drum tone as the Beneath the Remains (Sepultura) and Slowly We Rot (Obituary) albums. If that had happened I guarantee you 100% the album would immediately have gone down in history as one of the heaviest albums of the time and as a result it wouldn’t just be seen as a sort of throw away forgotten “warmup” album before Realm of Chaos. I think the production really hurt In Battle there is No Law’s likability with fans. It’s production automatically makes the album hard for most people, especially metal fans, to appreciate upon first listen so they quickly dismiss the album and just listen to Realm of Chaos or one of their albums from the 2000’s - I know this was me for the longest time before I got into it and began to appreciate how fast, chaotic and relentless the riffs and drumming was.

Rant: Why is it that there were all these other early OSDM bands that had bad production in the beginning when they were fast and raw and then by the time they got better productions none of them played fast, intricately and chaotically anymore??? It just never occurrs to them to say late in their careers “let’s be super fast and chaotic again, but with better production.” or “let’s return to our roots as established on Altars of Madness, but with a new twist”? And why is the sound of every modern extreme metal band just essentially generic/midtempo/boring riff compilations? None of the modern bands seem to be capable (or interested) in playing super fast and chaotic like the early OSDM bands.

Side note: listen to some of the BBC Peel Sessions versions of some of the songs off the In Battle there is No Law album. You will then fully realize just how much potential that album had

My last unpopular opinion that you all probably saw coming: everything Bolt Thrower did after Warmaster album is boring. I’ve listened to Those Once Loyal countless times trying to “get” the album, but it always just sounds lazy and very autopilot/going-through-the-motions compared to their Warmaster album and the albums that preceded it. I’ll never understand why the band themselves thinks Those Once Loyal is their best album. They are capable of so much more as evidenced by In Battle there is No Law and Realm of Chaos. They can and have done so much better .


Last edited by Commisaur on Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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LithoJazzoSphere
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Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:11 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:10 pm 
 

Deathdoom1992 wrote:
Left Hand Path isn't that good. I mean come on, it has 24 reviews with an average of 99%. It's a good album for sure but I don't really think it's the god tier release it's said to be. It also suffers from putting the title track first, which is just oceans better than any other song on there so it makes the rest of the tracks feel worse than they are since they're so far outshined by the opener. I'd rather listen to Wolverine Blues tbh.


Well, it's pretty much the nexus of Swedeath. Are you just not into that flavor of DM, or do you think there's another album that should be deified instead? It's going to be hard to find one that's more influential. WB is fun, but it's a different sound. And while the title track on LHP probably is the best song on the album, the whole thing is practically a greatest hits. "Drowned" is probably my second favorite.

des91 wrote:
Burn My Eyes is the only Machine Head album worthy of being a classic listen through the whole album.


This actually seems to be the standard opinion here. A lot won't even go as far as acknowledging that BME has any value.

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Curious_dead
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts: 974
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:27 pm 
 

MeavyHetal wrote:
I enjoy Volbeat's music (I guess you can call them a guilty pleasure of mine)

Simple, catchy pop-metal, not much depth at all but its dumb fun.


Not sure if it counts as "unpopular" given Volbeat's one of the most popular (younger) metal bands right now. Not on this board, from what I can tell, but they're definitely big. I didn't like them either at first, but on the contrary I think their music isn't as shallow as you make it out to be. Which may be MY unpopular opinion, maybe? I don't know, I don't think they're a very deep band, but I love the way they mesh different genres, and a lot of songs have been "growers" to me, and usually shallow stuff either catches my attention and interest quickly or simply never. I'm also quite disappointed that their tour with Ghost doesn't come to Canada (another band that is popular in general, but not so much on this board).

Another of my unpopular opinions: Sonata Arctica's Talviyo is a great album.

And another still: I don't like Metallica's Kill 'em all. I even prefer the Black album (though I prefer all the albums in between the two by a considerable margin).

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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:33 pm 
 

Curious_dead wrote:
given Volbeat's one of the most popular (younger) metal bands right now.


It's kind of hilarious that a band that released their first album almost two decades ago can be considered "younger".

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Curious_dead
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts: 974
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:37 pm 
 

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
Curious_dead wrote:
given Volbeat's one of the most popular (younger) metal bands right now.


It's kind of hilarious that a band that released their first album almost two decades ago can be considered "younger".


Maybe "younger" may not have been appropriate, but in any case, I kinda tripped and hadn't realized they had released it so long ago, I thought their first was in 2008.

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Hexenmacht46290
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:30 pm
Posts: 407
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:38 pm 
 

St. Anger has been mentioned, and I’m going to have to defend it. I think Metallica’s albums are all good, fun, and listenable(except for the one with Lou Reed), but I’m not a big fan of theirs, because I have other preferences.

However, hating Lars Ulrich is stupid. He makes mistakes live, whatever. If I were in the audience, I probably wouldn’t care that much. And hating the St. Anger drum sound? Why? I like that there is some variety, in drum sounds. I think the snare sounds heavy, and barbaric. Actually, it kind of reminds me of Slipknot’s kegs, and their percussion is a strong point.

Sarcófago’s first album has a good snare sound as well. You know what kind of snare I hate? “Splashy” ones, that sound like water. Manowar’s “blow your speakers” could be a good song, if not for that sound. It sounds like 80s keyboard pop. It reminds me of 80s keyboard pop. It reminds of Hollywood wuss movies, I was exposed to, growing up, and my first job, at an amusement park(that sucked), both of which played that stuff. I’d rather hear a snare that sounds like a trash can hit, or a sharp crack.
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Benedict Donald
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:46 pm 
 

"Brave Murder Day" > "Dance of December Souls" by a very wide margin.

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Ill-Starred Son
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:17 pm 
 

I just wanted to say that I'm in full agreement with everyone who has said that Blue Oyster Cult belongs on here, especially with bands like Rush and Thin Lizzy being here.

I mean, could we have a poll or something like that just to see what the results are of the percentage of the forum that agrees on this, and if we did, would it have any effect on the mods or bearing on their willingness to reconsider them?

What would we have to do to at least get the mods to give them a 2nd shot and get them to at least have a conversation about it?

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CreepingDeath16
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:25 pm 
 

This may be an unpopular metal opinion: the archive needs less, not more bands. Don't add BÖC, but remove Rush, Thin Lizzy, Faith No More and such borderline cases.

Also, if a band is made a precedent of being voted in, will that turn into a slippery slope?

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Ill-Starred Son
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
Posts: 1221
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:31 pm 
 

CreepingDeath16 wrote:
This may be an unpopular metal opinion: the archive needs less, not more bands. Don't add BÖC, but remove Rush, Thin Lizzy, Faith No More and such borderline cases.

Also, if a band is made a precedent of being voted in, will that turn into a slippery slope?


I'll say your opinion isn't a crazy one. To be honest, even though I'm a Rush fan and a HUGE FNM fan, I don't think Rush is metal, and while FNM does have certain metal songs, I'm not sure they really have an entire metal album. Their case is kind of borderline. Like, King for a Day...has quite a few metal songs, but then the other half is like rn'b. They probably shouldn't be on here.

BUT...if Rush and Thin Lizzy and the like are staying, then BOC should be on here also.

There's also a bunch of early obscure 70s bands that I think should be on here but I'm not even starting with a list right now. No energy for that lol.

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Deathdoom1992
Metalhead

Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 9:19 am
Posts: 449
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:33 pm 
 

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
Well, it's pretty much the nexus of Swedeath. Are you just not into that flavor of DM, or do you think there's another album that should be deified instead? It's going to be hard to find one that's more influential. WB is fun, but it's a different sound. And while the title track on LHP probably is the best song on the album, the whole thing is practically a greatest hits. "Drowned" is probably my second favorite.


Eh, I'm not a huge Swedeath fan, but I remember liking Clandestine quite a bit more than LHP, although it must be said it's been years since I listened to either of them, compared to WB which I listen to on a semi-regular basis. I like Drowned too but I think it's quite telling that beyond those two and the one with the weird vocal effect going on ("Premature Autopsy"?) really not much else sticks in my memory. I feel like it's probably an album I'll have a reasonably fun time listening to but won't really remember after it's done.

It must be said that I'm not the most religious death metal listener in the world so my attitude to the genre is more or less "I like what I like" - there are a few major acts/albums in the genre I just don't really jive with but then at the same time Death and Carcass (and Opeth, although they were never really pure DM) are some of my favourite bands, so yeah, my relationship with DM is weird.

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Wilytank
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:34 pm 
 

CreepingDeath16 wrote:

Also, if a band is made a precedent of being voted in, will that turn into a slippery slope?

The mod staff has stated time and time again to not do this.

Look at point 4 at this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=123865
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CreepingDeath16
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:18 pm 
 

Wilytank wrote:
CreepingDeath16 wrote:

Also, if a band is made a precedent of being voted in, will that turn into a slippery slope?

The mod staff has stated time and time again to not do this.

Look at point 4 at this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=123865

I'm not arguing for it, I was replying to this:
Ill-Starred Son wrote:
I mean, could we have a poll or something like that just to see what the results are of the percentage of the forum that agrees on this, and if we did, would it have any effect on the mods or bearing on their willingness to reconsider them?

Allowing such thing to have an effect would open a floodgate of unnecessary votes.

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Ace_Rimmer
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:30 am
Posts: 2473
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:32 pm 
 

More BM hot takes by me!

A lot of nu-metal has more metal riffage than a lot of black metal I come across.

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Hecatomb867
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:56 pm
Posts: 113
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:34 pm 
 

Commisaur wrote:
And why is the sound of every modern extreme metal band just essentially generic/midtempo/boring riff compilations? None of the modern bands seem to be capable (or interested) in playing super fast and chaotic like the early OSDM bands.


Well the simple answer here is that simplified, mid-tempo "caveman" death metal is in vogue and trendy at the moment. The reason for this is impossible to determine. Trends always come and go and right now the popular death metal trend is slow and dumbed down, it's just the way it is.

Also, not every new death metal band is only playing simple, mid-tempo stuff and there's actually been a recent wave of fast and chaotic death metal. You're clearly just not paying any attention. Ascended Dead, Of Feather and Bone, Concrete Winds, Ceremonial Bloodbath, Golgothan Remains and Eskhaton are a few examples of contemporary death bands playing unhinged, fast and chaotic death metal.

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EvergreenSherbert
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:48 pm
Posts: 380
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:35 pm 
 

Ace_Rimmer wrote:
More BM hot takes by me!

A lot of nu-metal has more metal riffage than a lot of black metal I come across.

I've never thought of black metal as a riff-oriented genre. It always seems to rely more on chords. Nu-metal on the other hand almost always has riffs, at least the good nu-metal.
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HeavenDuff
Veteran

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 2897
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:38 pm 
 

raumr wrote:
Black metal is the least racist of all the metal genres.

Bolt Thrower is possibly the most overrated band I've ever listened to.

Clive Burr's drumming was superior to Nicko McBrain's.

The X Factor is better than Piece of Mind.

Cold Lake is nowhere near as bad as people say, and I enjoyed it more than Into the Pandemonium.

St. Anger would be a great album if the song lengths were cut in half. The drum sound was fine.

Seventh Star is a great Black Sabbath album.


Are we just saying dumb shit for the sake of it now? I thought we actually had to have these opinions for real, not just spout random contrarian crap...

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Cosmic_Equilibrium
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:03 pm
Posts: 609
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:55 pm 
 

Now that I think about it having FNM on the archives but omitting Tool is just bizarre.

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EvergreenSherbert
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:48 pm
Posts: 380
Location: Directly behind you
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:07 pm 
 

Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
Now that I think about it having FNM on the archives but omitting Tool is just bizarre.

Agreed. Alice in Chains is in here too, and they're clearly a grunge band. I understand that their roots are in metal, but the music itself isn't metal.
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Ace_Rimmer
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:30 am
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:08 pm 
 

AIC is metal. Grunge is a media description.

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Sunioj_Paul
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 4:46 pm
Posts: 140
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:13 pm 
 

Tony Martin was a far superior vocalist than Dio.

Judas Priest are so cheesy they are unlistenable to me.

The last good Darkthrone album was Total Death.

Load/Reload, Super Collider, Endorama are all good diverse albums despite their lack of 'metal'.

Only 2 bad songs on Morbid Angel's 'I' album, the rest of the songs could have fit on their other albums especially Covenant and Domination.

Senjutsu is easily in the top 3 Iron Maiden albums.


Last edited by Sunioj_Paul on Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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LunarisIsDead
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:14 pm
Posts: 162
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:15 pm 
 

CreepingDeath16 wrote:
Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
The main reason Tool are not on the Archives is probably down to snobbery. Despite being not nu-metal at all, a lot of kids in the 90s/00s had their albums in rotation alongside Limp Bizkit et al, and IMO this has led to them being (inaccurately) linked to the nu-metal/alt metal scene. I'm willing to concede a lot of their earlier work falls more into prog rock and alt rock at times, but Lateralus is a metal album, blatantly metallic riffs and dynamics abound there. And for what it's worth, I suspect the aforementioned subconscious snobbery/association has precluded Rammstein and Slipknot (post Iowa) from being included on the Archives too.

I hear Tool as a progressive grunge band. With Lateralus they shifted more towards prog and that's their most borderline and heavy album, sure, but not metal.


Lateralus is easily their album with the most metal influence (and an absolutely amazing one at that) but I'm not quite sure I'd call it a fully metal album. Tool is certainly more metal than a lot of bands already on the archives, though. In the context of the borderline bands that are already here, I see no reason not to include them.

I don't really like threads like this but I suppose I'll throw a couple of my "hot takes" into the mix anyway:

A band that absolutely SHOULD be on the archives is System of a Down. Not even borderline in my opinion, their first three albums are more than metal enough to qualify them.

LuLu isn't Metallica's best album, but it's certainly their most interesting and it has leagues more artistic value than anything they've released since AJFA. I used to hate it but nowadays I'd put it up there with their first three albums. Extremely, extremely underrated. Load is also pretty underrated, though to nowhere near the same extent.

Not sure how much of an unpopular opinion this is here, but Alice in Chains's self titled surpasses every extreme metal album I've listened to in terms of delivering a heavy, oppressively dark atmosphere. It's completely emotionally broken and it's one of the greatest metal albums of all time.
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