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DoomMetalAlchemist
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:10 am
Posts: 2164
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:34 am 
 

Quote:
BLACK SABBATH guitarist Tony Iommi says that he still wants to remix the iconic band’s “Born Again” album.

Released in the summer of 1983, “Born Again” was the only BLACK SABBATH album to feature DEEP PURPLE singer Ian Gillan. It would also mark drummer Bill Ward’s last outing with the band on a record.

Speaking with SiriusXM’s “Trunk Nation With Eddie Trunk”, Iommi confirmed that the master tapes for “Born Again” had been located and that he is planning on getting the record “sounding right” prior to releasing it to the public.

“Apparently, [my manager] found a connection there, where [the master tapes] were,” Tony said (as transcribed by BLABBERMOUTH.NET). “I haven’t heard any more. We’re waiting to get these now. They discovered where they were — in some library in some record company somewhere. Obviously, I’d love to do that — I’d love to get that one sounding right. ‘Cause I think that was a really good album. And when we’d first done it in the studio, it sounded great. But when it came out on record, it was really muffly and not good. So I wanna try and do something with that.”

Following the departure of lead singer Ronnie James Dio and drummer Vinny Appice after the studio mixing of the “Live Evil” album, BLACK SABBATH was once again on the lookout for yet another lead vocalist to fill the significant void left at stage front. The band turned to Ian Gillan.

The resultant album and live touring certainly made for one of the more curious associations in the world of heavy metal. Much of this era of BLACK SABBATH has passed into rock folklore and was actually the source for the material used in the rockumentary movie “This Is Spinal Tap”. From the replica stage production of Stonehenge, which was too large for some of the venues on the world tour, to the employment of a dwarf to dress up and play the part of the “devil-baby” from the LP front cover, the world of BLACK SABBATH took on a distinct air of the surreal.

While the well-received “Born Again” album and live dates succeeded in stoking the embers and kept the SABBATH flames burning, this would ultimately be a marriage built more on friendship and respect as opposed to any long-standing and compatible musical association. After one tour, Ian Gillan would eventually bid farewell and re-join his old sparring partners for the Mk. II reunion of DEEP PURPLE and leave BLACK SABBATH once more gazing into the crystal ball hoping the face of yet another lead vocalist would reveal itself.

For Iommi, Geezer Butler, Ward, Gillan, and keyboardist Geoff Nicholls, work would swiftly commence in May of ’83 at the Manor Studios in the village of Shiptonon-Cherwell, Oxfordshire. Produced by BLACK SABBATH and co-producer Robin Black, who had also worked on 1975’s “Sabotage”, 1976’s “Technical Ecstasy”, and 1978’s “Never Say Die”, SABBATH’s eleventh studio release would represent a radical departure from the gloomy atmospherics and blackened lyricism that had forged their identity and spawned innumerable descendants.

Gillan’s approach to songwriting bespoke a lighter-hearted approach to what had, until then, been the primary concern of Butler. Album opener “Trashed”, for instance, was inspired by Gillan’s boozed-up race around the Manor’s grounds in Bill Ward’s car that ended in near-catastrophe and a wrecked vehicle. “Disturbing The Priest” was the result of a door in the studio having been left open during playback, and a local vicar appearing in the doorway asking for the volume to be turned down as it was disturbing choir practice in the adjacent village.

For all of its off-kilter appearance however, “Born Again” was still SABBATH through and through. Musically twisted and possessed with more than a whiff of brimstone, the album is a thrilling glimpse into an alternative world.


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Metal Shark
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Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:54 am
Posts: 638
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:32 am 
 

:hyper:


"Borrrrrrn Again! Ohhhhhhhhh Born Again!"

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Waltz_of_Ghouls
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Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:24 am
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Location: Quebec City, Canada
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:27 am 
 

Nice! Born Again is in my opinion criminally underrated.
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Zerberus
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Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:29 pm
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Location: Silkeborg, Denmark
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:38 pm 
 

Born Again is a great album (well, like most Black Sabbath), but definitely underappreciated. The Tony Martin albums have slowly but surely gained traction over the years, but the other non-Dio/Ozzy albums are still a little way off.
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CreepingDeath16
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2021 12:49 am
Posts: 91
Location: Hyperborea
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:30 pm 
 

I'm not really a fan of Gillan's performance on the album, his voice sounds very strained at parts. It's obvious that it's 13 years after Deep Purple in Rock and presumably a lot of partying took place inbetween. Then there's the question of him being a suitable vocalist for Sabbath in the first place. Now that I listen to the album again, the overall sound is indeed quite muffled, so it would be really interesting to hear a remix. Some really great Iommi riffs throughout.

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markhebb
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:32 am
Posts: 184
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:56 pm 
 

I adore this record! It’s in my top five sabbath albums. Will be purchasing as soon as it comes out.

Ps my top five Sabbath records are (this week anyway)

1. Master of Reality
2. Heaven & Hell
3. Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
4. Born Again
5. Headless Cross

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Benedict Donald
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:36 am
Posts: 568
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:33 pm 
 

CreepingDeath16 wrote:
I'm not really a fan of Gillan's performance on the album, his voice sounds very strained at parts.


Interesting. I've long considered Born Again, as well as 1984's "Perfect Strangers", to be his best era. His voice had such great 'warmth' and character at this time. And MKII Deep Purple is among my favorites ever. I just think Ian's voice had matured into something majestic by the early-mid 80s.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 30921
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:09 pm 
 

markhebb wrote:
I adore this record! It’s in my top five sabbath albums. Will be purchasing as soon as it comes out.

Ps my top five Sabbath records are (this week anyway)

1. Master of Reality
2. Heaven & Hell
3. Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
4. Born Again
5. Headless Cross


Sabotage is my favorite, but yeah this would be pretty close to my favorites as well.

And Gillan was a banshee on In Rock, but I don't even think that's the best DP album. He leaned into a more soulful, warm kind of voice later on that I like better. Charismatic. Very good.

Born Again I didn't hear until last year and it floored me. Definitely a monster full of goddamn riffs.
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Everflowingstream
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Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:29 am
Posts: 569
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:52 pm 
 

Ripping album. Surely due for a reissue on cd and vinyl.

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MawBTS
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:16 am
Posts: 1046
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:05 pm 
 

Born Again might be the most "extreme" BS album. It sounds so fucked up and noisy. It's great.

They'll probably give it to Rick Rubin and he'll ruin it.

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asphaalanx
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:04 am
Posts: 188
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:36 pm 
 

MawBTS wrote:
They'll probably give it to Rick Rubin and he'll ruin it.

The horror.

I'm sure/I hope Iommi will handle it himself.

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Benedict Donald
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:36 am
Posts: 568
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:17 pm 
 

MawBTS wrote:
Born Again might be the most "extreme" BS album. It sounds so fucked up and noisy. It's great.

They'll probably give it to Rick Rubin and he'll ruin it.



Who's worse?
Rubin or Sneap?

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Ex El Ex El Ex
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:53 pm
Posts: 102
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:18 am 
 

By God, yes. Bring some warmth to this record.
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CreepingDeath16
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2021 12:49 am
Posts: 91
Location: Hyperborea
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:27 am 
 

Benedict Donald wrote:
CreepingDeath16 wrote:
I'm not really a fan of Gillan's performance on the album, his voice sounds very strained at parts.


Interesting. I've long considered Born Again, as well as 1984's "Perfect Strangers", to be his best era. His voice had such great 'warmth' and character at this time. And MKII Deep Purple is among my favorites ever. I just think Ian's voice had matured into something majestic by the early-mid 80s.

I don't know. Could it be a mixing thing as well? Because this unmixed demo version (which YouTube recommended for me, thanks YouTube) sounds fucking amazing.

Edit: Turns out it's not a demo but a preliminary mix of the album. And Gillan still has that odd nasal quality at times, in for example Zero the Hero. Oh well.

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orphy
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 11:24 pm
Posts: 287
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:05 pm 
 

In Iommi's book, "Iron Man," he mentioned a couple interesting tidbits about this record. First, when Ian Gillan joined the band, he warned them that his vocals weren't in great condition, so he couldn't really do some of the stuff he was known to do in Deep Purple. The band didn't care though and were just happy to have him. Second, the album was mixed on monitors with blown tweeters. Since that's where the high end gets represented, they overcompensated the highs on the mix, which explains why it sounds so strange. The guitar solos IMO especially show this, they can be really abrasive. I'd love to hear what they can do to this record with a remix!
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jose_G
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Joined: Mon May 11, 2020 1:02 pm
Posts: 200
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:08 pm 
 

Awesome!!

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MawBTS
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:16 am
Posts: 1046
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:30 pm 
 

Benedict Donald wrote:
MawBTS wrote:
Born Again might be the most "extreme" BS album. It sounds so fucked up and noisy. It's great.

They'll probably give it to Rick Rubin and he'll ruin it.



Who's worse?
Rubin or Sneap?


Honestly I think Rubin.

Sneap would make the album boring but heavy. Rick Rubin just produces rappers and Ed Sheeran these days. I doubt he even still knows what metal sounds like.

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GOOFAM
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:06 am
Posts: 142
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:38 am 
 

Benedict Donald wrote:
CreepingDeath16 wrote:
I'm not really a fan of Gillan's performance on the album, his voice sounds very strained at parts.


Interesting. I've long considered Born Again, as well as 1984's "Perfect Strangers", to be his best era. His voice had such great 'warmth' and character at this time. And MKII Deep Purple is among my favorites ever. I just think Ian's voice had matured into something majestic by the early-mid 80s.


I'm also in the camp that thinks he sounds pretty strained on Born Again, though I think the '80s Purple albums manage his voice well enough (they're actually maybe my two favorite Purple albums, though I'm not really huge on the vocals). Then Gillan really hit a nadir on The Battle Rages On, but seemed to then find a much more comfortable approach from there on.

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MetlaNZ
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:45 pm
Posts: 1383
Location: Lost in Necropolis
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:03 am 
 

This is good news, I dig the album as is but it would be cool to hear another mix.
Damn I wish someone could find the Leave Scars master tapes.

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DoomMetalAlchemist
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:10 am
Posts: 2164
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:34 am 
 

Strikes me odd reading people saying Gillain doesn't sound to his usual standards on Born Again.... I'm not the biggest Deep Purple fan, but IMO Gillain sounds better on Born Again then he did on any album from MKII's initial run (1970-1973). Those fucking banshee wales on Disturbing the Priest!

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Benedict Donald
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:36 am
Posts: 568
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:37 am 
 

DoomMetalAlchemist wrote:
Strikes me odd reading people saying Gillain doesn't sound to his usual standards on Born Again.... I'm not the biggest Deep Purple fan, but IMO Gillain sounds better on Born Again then he did on any album from MKII's initial run (1970-1973). Those fucking banshee wales on Disturbing the Priest!



The Alchemist knows!!!

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marc1978
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Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:41 am
Posts: 32
Location: Belgium
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2021 4:17 am 
 

Sounds interesting. it's the production which always makes me turn it off

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Twisted_Psychology
Metal freak

Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 8:22 pm
Posts: 5679
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:25 pm 
 

I'd be very curious to see what Born Again sounds like with "proper" production; at this point, that whole underwater muffling just sounds like a natural fit to me. I'd also say that it is one of Gillan's most interesting performances on a record and comparing it to his reunion-era Purple performances makes me wonder if he might've blown his voice out in the process.
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MawBTS
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:16 am
Posts: 1046
PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:37 pm 
 

^ That's what I think, too. It's like re-recording Ozzy's songs with an awesome, opera-trained singer. Ozzy's voice is part of the charm of the early BS albums.

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gestapothrash
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:18 am 
 

Fuckin' excited for this!!
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NeonDragon76
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Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2021 11:20 am
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:23 pm 
 

I can happily say that Born Again is my favourite non-Ozzy album and I'd love to hear a remastered version of it.

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MRmehman
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Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:34 pm
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Location: The Painted World of Ariamis
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:21 pm 
 

I'd listen to it. I don't think I've ever actually listened to this 'Sabbath album.
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Ex El Ex El Ex
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Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:53 pm
Posts: 102
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:27 pm 
 

MRmehman wrote:
I'd listen to it. I don't think I've ever actually listened to this 'Sabbath album.

Songwriting itself is pretty solid and Gillan's vocals are crazy, but be ready for some weird fucking production.
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oldmetalhead
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Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:30 am
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Location: Helltown, United States
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:31 pm 
 

It's a great album (unpopular opinion :roll:) and I would definitely check out a cleaned up version. Trashed, Disturbing the Priest, Zero the Hero, all great songs form the Sabbath catalog.

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Benedict Donald
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:36 am
Posts: 568
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:07 am 
 

oldmetalhead wrote:
It's a great album (unpopular opinion :roll:) and I would definitely check out a cleaned up version. Trashed, Disturbing the Priest, Zero the Hero, all great songs form the Sabbath catalog.


I'd also rank the title track as being a classic. It's one of my all-time fav Sabbath tunes.
Such a great atmosphere.

Although I love "Perfect Strangers", it would have been great to see/hear what this lineup could have done with another record.

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soul_schizm
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Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:55 am
Posts: 728
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:57 am 
 

I played this album over & over back then. It did have a shaky production but the songs overcame it. Disturbing the Priest is deliciously evil. Trashed is a great rocker, and the title track w/ Zero the Hero makes it slam dunk for me. Now I want to pull it out and listen again!

I'd love to see a remix. Lots of stories floated around about why it was so bass-heavy. Like maybe Geezer got his hands on it during the mix, LOL.

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Chinese_Whispers
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:35 pm
Posts: 146
PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:40 am 
 

I recall reading that the tweeters in the studio speakers got blown out prior to the final mix. No one noticed that the speakers were gone so they overcompensated and sent it off for mastering, not realising until the first pressings came back and it was too late to correct it. I also remember either Iommi or Gillan commenting that the early rough mixes they had on cassette sounded great and they were horrified at the final product.

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Benedict Donald
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:36 am
Posts: 568
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:25 am 
 

Chinese_Whispers wrote:
I recall reading that the tweeters in the studio speakers got blown out prior to the final mix. No one noticed that the speakers were gone so they overcompensated and sent it off for mastering, not realising until the first pressings came back and it was too late to correct it. I also remember either Iommi or Gillan commenting that the early rough mixes they had on cassette sounded great and they were horrified at the final product.


There are bootlegs of the "unmixed" demo recordings easily accessible via Ebay. Some say these sound better than the final product, but that's debatable:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yNt71qhz30

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ZenoMarx
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Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:38 am
Posts: 247
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:43 am 
 

Where's Dave Grohl when you need him to remaster/remix a classic that people already love as-is? Of course, I'm joking. Leave it alone. They won't just remix it. They'll brickwall it and make it sound like shit, like the Black Box set.

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KaiKasparek
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:06 pm
Posts: 71
Location: Suomi Finland Bukkake
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:09 pm 
 

The mix wasn't the problem. The problem was the terrible songs. Although it is funny to troll the Guns N Roses fans by showing them Zero The Hero to show them Tony Iommi came up with Paradise City first.

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asphaalanx
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:04 am
Posts: 188
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:27 pm 
 

ZenoMarx wrote:
They won't just remix it. They'll brickwall it and make it sound like shit, like the Black Box set.

Not if Iommi has his way. Those 2002/4 remasters were a long time ago, and were done under Rhino's supervision.
The 2009 (onwards) remasters are quite tasteful in comparison.

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