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Lagartija
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:27 am
Posts: 1376
Location: Catalunya
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:16 am 
 

Re. III-Starred Son, that's pretty much what I meant: nothing is without side effects. I've put a tonne of stuff into my body over 17 years and thank Lemmy I'm one of the lucky ones to come out of it alive and more or less sane, but I've known a lot of people who didn't, including two friends who developed lifelong schizophrenia just with weed. Whether they had a predisposition or not I don't know, but it happens.
I'm not advocating the War on Drugs or policing what people can or can't take; if you can take drugs and not have any problems, good for you (in fact I envy you, you bastards). But it's all about education and balancing both sides.

Back on topic: I don't like the vocals on most classic second-wave Norwegian bands and albums, such as early Burzum, Mayhem's DMDS (Dead fan here), Immortal...
And in general I think that, apart from its undeniable influence and historical importance, Finnish black metal > Norwegian black metal.

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snarg
Metalhead

Joined: Fri May 22, 2020 4:25 pm
Posts: 415
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:01 am 
 

Lagartija wrote:
And in general I think that, apart from its undeniable influence and historical importance, Finnish black metal > Norwegian black metal.


alright, I'll call and raise you this:

"these days almost every country does better Black Metal than the Norwegians"

Finland, Sweden, Netherlands, Belgium, France, Iceland, Germany, Canada, Greece, Australia, Poland, USA, just to name a few, probably forgetting some, have come up with more interesting albums when compared to Norway

Not saying there haven't been any good Black Metal releases coming out from Norway, there definitely has, but they're getting harder to find when compared to the countries listed

Then again, I've never been the biggest fan of the Norwegian variety, so throw this in the "totally biased and unfair" bin.

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Gravetemplar
Veteran

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
Posts: 3241
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:15 am 
 

snarg wrote:
Lagartija wrote:
And in general I think that, apart from its undeniable influence and historical importance, Finnish black metal > Norwegian black metal.


alright, I'll call and raise you this:

"these days almost every country does better Black Metal than the Norwegians"

Finland, Sweden, Netherlands, Belgium, France, Iceland, Germany, Canada, Greece, Australia, Poland, USA, just to name a few, probably forgetting some, have come up with more interesting albums when compared to Norway

Not saying there haven't been any good Black Metal releases coming out from Norway, there definitely has, but they're getting harder to find when compared to the countries listed

Then again, I've never been the biggest fan of the Norwegian variety, so throw this in the "totally biased and unfair" bin.

Agreed, though Terratur Possessions always releases quality black metal from Norway: Issolei, Knokkelklang, Mare, Misotheist, One Tail, One Head, Vemod...

I don't really like Finnish black metal though apart from a few exceptions: Celestial Grave, Devouring Star, Oranssi Pazuzu, Rahu and Ruho. The biggest names in the scene (Horna, Sargeist, Satanic Warmaster, Goatmoon, Impaled Nazarene, Cosmic Church, etc) are pretty boring one dimensional bands imho.


Last edited by Gravetemplar on Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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interstellar_medium
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:41 am
Posts: 863
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:21 am 
 

TheCloudMinder wrote:
interstellar_medium wrote:
These days, a truly competent metal singer should be able to do any style. Call this one of my "hot takes" if you will: a metal singer under fifty who somehow isn't known for mastering both clean and harsh vocals still has quite a lot to learn.
// yeah, the old guard is exempt... not to say there aren't older folks who can't do both, of course //


Why? What if someone doesn't like doing harsh vocals? Are you saying that a metal singer today is not truly competent unless he incorporates harsh vocals into his music? And why should older folks be excluded?


Thanks for asking! Let's first get the pronouns right: it's not about men exclusively; my statement applies to metal vocalists of all genders and biological sexes.

Now, older folks: those would be the kind who started out in the 80s and earlier, when harsh vocals were still seen as a "novelty" or even a "gimmick" if you will; there was very little (if any) research done into proper technique etc, so those folks who began to employ harsh vocals back then were often "non-singers". Think Sabina Classen who was asked to do vocals but couldn't "sing" in the "clean" sense, so she decided to make weird screechy noises as a joke - which her band members loved; the rest is history.
And the metal subgenres were kinda "stricter" back then; clean vocals on a DM record were seen as "selling out" often even well into in the 90s.
So I don't expect those generations of singers to truly "branch out". For historical reasons.

"Not liking" a style is an unprofessional approach. Learning all the capabilities of your instrument - even if it's your voice - and being able to employ them at will is indeed the definition of competence. Floor Jansen is a competent metal singer; Simone Simons is a competent classical/pop singer, but a limited metal singer. Okay, that "other Jansen" dude wouldn't (unfortunately) magically disappear even if Simone upped her metal game (as he's the mastermind of Epica), but - there's a lot of sympho bands out there with Simone/Tarja clones on the lead vocals and random instrumentalists doing bad-to-mediocre harsh vocals. If the lead singer, who already knows how breath support and resonance work, invested a little bit of care into expanding her palette, the band would benefit on the whole (the dudes wouldn't need to embarrass themselves any more).
Sure, this could work the other way, if the dudes were to decide they need to be serious about their vocals and learn how to "sing clean" which would automatically improve their harsh vocals - but building proper foundations in their case would probably take more time.

The "beauty and the beast" trope (especially with pathetic execution) is so over the hill. I am not against a band having two (or more) lead singers - on the contrary, I love duets and trios - but those singers should not feel like a one-trick pony each. Let them both (all) be able to harmonise when needed or enact a storm combining their harsh vocals. Or whatever combination works for that particular song. But let there be all colours.

Sympho, melodeath, doom, folk, progressive, avant-garde metal - all these genres routinely use a combination of harsh and clean vocals. The "either/or" approach is growing more and more "niche", I'd say.

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
On that same note, I don't think it's necessary for instrumentalists to master every technique if it isn't needed for their music. Spending years becoming competent at sweep picking or executing gravity blasts probably isn't necessary if you're a funeral/drone doom band.


Would you truly call that sort of funeral/drone guitar players "competent", though? There probably is a reason why when you say "name your favourite metal guitarist", people start listing Vais and Malmsteens and whoever happens to be in the biggest tech death bands of the day :P

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DecemberSoul
Mirties Metafora

Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:46 am
Posts: 1119
Location: Switzerland
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:24 am 
 

A few more unpopular opinions:

- Too many bands have their cymbals mixed way too low, and many drummers don't make enough use of their cymbals anyway
- Repeating almost every riff for an even number of bars (especially multiples of 4) renders songs not only overly predictable, but often stale and boring
- Following the usual "interview protocol" of the ever same old Q's and A's makes i-views almost entirely worthless
- (though it's been discussed here not so long ago:) bass is rarely useful or needed for death and black metal
- (dito:) solos are the nadir of way too many songs, killing the mood
- concerts (and even more so festivals) stand against nearly everything I appreciate about metal
- almost all modern productions are clearly inferior to those of the 80s and 90s
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Gravetemplar
Veteran

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
Posts: 3241
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:29 am 
 

Brave New World and A Matter of Life and Death are better than the classic Maiden albums.

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Lagartija
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:27 am
Posts: 1376
Location: Catalunya
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:24 am 
 

Re. Gravetemplar, thanks for all those recs, duly noted for forthcoming investigation :)

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66samhain
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:23 pm
Posts: 53
Location: Romania
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:31 am 
 

Another one: Amorphis should stick to clean vocals, I don't think the death growls fit the band's style so well and kind of kill the mood.
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Zelkiiro
Pounding the world with a fish of steel

Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:30 pm
Posts: 7173
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:53 am 
 

DecemberSoul wrote:
- Repeating almost every riff for an even number of bars (especially multiples of 4) renders songs not only overly predictable, but often stale and boring

How dare music follow rules and structures that make it pleasurable for our brains to listen to! How dare it!
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Benedict Donald
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:36 am
Posts: 568
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:22 am 
 

66samhain wrote:
Another one: Amorphis should stick to clean vocals, I don't think the death growls fit the band's style so well and kind of kill the mood.


I'm not sure I agree regarding Amorphis (although the new single's harsh vox feel forced and unnecessary).
But I do think modern Enslaved would benefit greatly from a move to 100% cleans.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 30920
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:21 am 
 

interstellar_medium wrote:

"Not liking" a style is an unprofessional approach. Learning all the capabilities of your instrument - even if it's your voice - and being able to employ them at will is indeed the definition of competence. Floor Jansen is a competent metal singer; Simone Simons is a competent classical/pop singer, but a limited metal singer. Okay, that "other Jansen" dude wouldn't (unfortunately) magically disappear even if Simone upped her metal game (as he's the mastermind of Epica), but - there's a lot of sympho bands out there with Simone/Tarja clones on the lead vocals and random instrumentalists doing bad-to-mediocre harsh vocals. If the lead singer, who already knows how breath support and resonance work, invested a little bit of care into expanding her palette, the band would benefit on the whole (the dudes wouldn't need to embarrass themselves any more).
Sure, this could work the other way, if the dudes were to decide they need to be serious about their vocals and learn how to "sing clean" which would automatically improve their harsh vocals - but building proper foundations in their case would probably take more time.

Sympho, melodeath, doom, folk, progressive, avant-garde metal - all these genres routinely use a combination of harsh and clean vocals. The "either/or" approach is growing more and more "niche", I'd say.


Interesting opinion, but I don't really see how it's "unprofessional"... not everyone needs to use harsh vocals all the time. Sympho, melodeath and folk are styles that don't appeal to me at all a lot of the time for instance. Much of what I like involves solely clean singing. A lot of bands I like it just wouldn't fit to have harsh vocals. That's more important, I think - to know what a sound needs. I guess I can see the argument that knowing how to control one's voice makes for a more versatile performer, but in that case, everyone should also learn how to rap, and musicians should also learn how to play everything from extreme blastbeats to avant garde industrial just in case. All of it could be a plus but I just wouldn't say it's necessary, per se.

I do always say I like bands to have a wide amount of influences, so in a way I can see your point - it's just that we come from different angles where I like hearing bands that didn't only listen to metal, and you're coming from a side where the more modern types of metal are of a more fundamental importance.
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Last edited by Empyreal on Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Gravetemplar
Veteran

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
Posts: 3241
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:22 am 
 

Benedict Donald wrote:
66samhain wrote:
Another one: Amorphis should stick to clean vocals, I don't think the death growls fit the band's style so well and kind of kill the mood.


I'm not sure I agree regarding Amorphis (although the new single's harsh vox feel forced and unnecessary).
But I do think modern Enslaved would benefit greatly from a move to 100% cleans.

If we were talking about Monumension-Below the Lights-Isa-Ruun-Vertebreae clean vocals I'd agree as well, but the clean vocals from their last albums have been mostly mediocre and dull. Completely uninteresting and lacking. That new Dordeduh album has better clean vocals than any modern Enslaved album imho.

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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 6713
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:27 am 
 

66samhain wrote:
Another one: Amorphis should stick to clean vocals, I don't think the death growls fit the band's style so well and kind of kill the mood.


Thanks for reminding me: Amorphis are one of those bands that I think are extremely overrated. Privilege of Evil is great. The Karelian Isthmus, Tuonela and even Am Universum have their moments, but everything that I've heard is pretty fucking crap; be it the stuff that belongs to their experimental era of 1994-2006 or the albums that belong to their recent pop ''metal'' era.

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 10193
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:57 am 
 

MetlaNZ wrote:
Oh c'mon Morrigan don't fuckin skip it!

Scream for me Metal Archives!

"Sunlight, falling on your steel
Death in life is your ideal
Life is like a wheel"

Repeat until the earworm sinks in. Should only take about 3 and a arf minutes to embed itself, not whatever ludicrous amount of time it takes these bloody days.

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Ill-Starred Son
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
Posts: 1224
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:43 pm 
 

66samhain wrote:
Another one: Amorphis should stick to clean vocals, I don't think the death growls fit the band's style so well and kind of kill the mood.


As a HUGE Amorphis fan I definitely disagree.

Tomi is great at both his clean and growling vocals and I think he mixes them up perfectly.

Did you like the band when they were a pure death metal band and during their earlier periods with their other 2 singers? Because if you didn't I could understand, but if you do then i'd be confused.

I mean their style has changed so perhaps you could have liked the growling with their older stuff but feel it doesn't fit their newer stuff, but Amorphis has always mixed up their clean and growling vocals except if we go back as far as The Karelian Ishtmus. Even Tales had a few clean vocal parts.

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Ill-Starred Son
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
Posts: 1224
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:48 pm 
 

colin040 wrote:
66samhain wrote:
Another one: Amorphis should stick to clean vocals, I don't think the death growls fit the band's style so well and kind of kill the mood.


Thanks for reminding me: Amorphis are one of those bands that I think are extremely overrated. Privilege of Evil is great. The Karelian Isthmus, Tuonela and even Am Universum have their moments, but everything that I've heard is pretty fucking crap; be it the stuff that belongs to their experimental era of 1994-2006 or the albums that belong to their recent pop ''metal'' era.


This makes me want to lose my mind lol.

It's fine that you disagree, but I think Amorphis is fucking amazing and I find it very odd that you liked Am Universam when it's one of their worst albums.

I guess if you've REALLY heard albums like Tales From the Thousand Lakes, Elegy, Skyforger, Silent Waters, Circle and Eclipse and STILL don't like them then there's nothing I can do for you lol.


But on another note, I don't like the use of the word "overrated."

A band or artist can't be "overrated" because art is subjective. An athlete, for example, could be overrated. Like I'm an MMA and UFC fan so you could say that a certain fighter is overrated and shouldn't be ranked as high as he is because he hasn't fought the best opposition or his skill set is one dimensional etc. but a band simply cannot be overrated.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:53 pm 
 

They never did anything for me either; not bad but they never moved me. I've been shown tracks from all over their career and it just sounds too dry for my tastes - sort of weirdly in the middle of direct/accessible stuff and more atmospheric arty stuff, and to me they just don't nail either one. I imagine there's plenty I don't get and I'm fine with that. Some things you just can't get into.
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Lagartija
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:27 am
Posts: 1376
Location: Catalunya
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:02 pm 
 

These keep coming:
I don't like DsO-style avant-garde, dissonant stuff. Not saying it's bad, obviously, I guess I'm just more of a meat-and-potatoes-type guy.

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Ill-Starred Son
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
Posts: 1224
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:10 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
They never did anything for me either; not bad but they never moved me. I've been shown tracks from all over their career and it just sounds too dry for my tastes - sort of weirdly in the middle of direct/accessible stuff and more atmospheric arty stuff, and to me they just don't nail either one. I imagine there's plenty I don't get and I'm fine with that. Some things you just can't get into.


No one's going to like everything.

Are you a fan of melodic death and doom death?

Did you ever really listen to Elegy or Tales from the Thousand Lakes?

Kind of hard to imagine anyone calling those albums "dry", but everything is subjective.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 30920
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:16 pm 
 

Ill-Starred Son wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
They never did anything for me either; not bad but they never moved me. I've been shown tracks from all over their career and it just sounds too dry for my tastes - sort of weirdly in the middle of direct/accessible stuff and more atmospheric arty stuff, and to me they just don't nail either one. I imagine there's plenty I don't get and I'm fine with that. Some things you just can't get into.


No one's going to like everything.

Are you a fan of melodic death and doom death?

Did you ever really listen to Elegy or Tales from the Thousand Lakes?

Kind of hard to imagine anyone calling those albums "dry", but everything is subjective.


Yeah neither of those two albums excited me even a little really. Just too timid sounding for my tastes. Needs more meat.
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Ill-Starred Son
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
Posts: 1224
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:20 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Ill-Starred Son wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
They never did anything for me either; not bad but they never moved me. I've been shown tracks from all over their career and it just sounds too dry for my tastes - sort of weirdly in the middle of direct/accessible stuff and more atmospheric arty stuff, and to me they just don't nail either one. I imagine there's plenty I don't get and I'm fine with that. Some things you just can't get into.


No one's going to like everything.

Are you a fan of melodic death and doom death?

Did you ever really listen to Elegy or Tales from the Thousand Lakes?

Kind of hard to imagine anyone calling those albums "dry", but everything is subjective.


Yeah neither of those two albums excited me even a little really. Just too timid sounding for my tastes. Needs more meat.



Strange but that's your opinion.

I've never once heard them referred to as "timid."

Tales in particular isn't going for "fierce" anyway it's going for DRAMATIC, which it certainly is IMO.

I guess you could see it that way if you are someone only into the heaviest stuff and I love death, black/death, grind etc, but I know you like some power metal and stuff like that, so that doesn't make much sense to me, but hey, whatever. Tastes are different.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:23 pm 
 

Power metal is often more driving and exuberant. It's not about being sledgehammer heavy but about being a constant flow of energy and exciting melodies going on. Adrenaline stuff.

Like I said, I guess Amorphis was just never for me, just not a sound that was interesting for my tastes.

edit... seen this a few times so I guess it's unpopular the opposite way, but I like a lot of Maiden and Bruce Dickinson solo work at around the same rate.
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markhebb
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:32 am
Posts: 184
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:40 pm 
 

Bruce Dickinson’s The Chemical Wedding is better than 95% of Iron Maiden’s catalogue.


Last edited by markhebb on Sun Dec 12, 2021 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Lord_Of_Diamonds
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:23 pm
Posts: 777
Location: US
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:48 pm 
 

Those who know me on the forums and elsewhere probably know this already, but I think A Sense of Purpose is the best In Flames album from the 2000s, and the best album they released since Colony.
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acid_bukkake
SAD!

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:45 am
Posts: 2016
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:07 pm 
 

interstellar_medium wrote:
Would you truly call that sort of funeral/drone guitar players "competent", though? There probably is a reason why when you say "name your favourite metal guitarist", people start listing Vais and Malmsteens and whoever happens to be in the biggest tech death bands of the day :P

Technical ability isn't the only way to show competence. I can't think of a single Yngwie song that I can recall off the top of my head, and a good friend used to make me listen to a lot of his work, but I can bust out a dozen Justin Sullivan masterpieces of songwriting that use pretty standard chords and progressions.

Going off the logic used in your initial statement, Hemingway was a bad author because he only wrote in his plain, straightforward style.
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HereticBiscuit
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:10 pm
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Location: Greece
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:34 pm 
 

Mayhem should have never accepted Attila as their vocalist. His growls don't match the band's character. Dead and Maniac were waaayyy better than him on every single aspect.

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HeavenDuff
Veteran

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 2916
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:30 pm 
 

markhebb wrote:
Bruce Dickinson’s The Chemical Wedding is better than 95% of Iron mIaden’s catalogue.


Iron Maiden, Killers, The Number of The Beast, Piece of Mind, Powerslave, Somewhere in Time, Seventh Son of a Seventh Son... are definitely all better then The Chemical Wedding.

Brave New World and X-Factor are also both arguably better then TCW.

I've tried to like The Chemical Wedding, I really did. But I just don't get the hype. It just feels like a less compelling hard rock version of Iron Maiden. It's not bad, but I really don't get why people like it as much as they do.

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oldmetalhead
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:30 am
Posts: 497
Location: Helltown, United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:39 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
markhebb wrote:
Bruce Dickinson’s The Chemical Wedding is better than 95% of Iron mIaden’s catalogue.


Iron Maiden, Killers, The Number of The Beast, Piece of Mind, Powerslave, Somewhere in Time, Seventh Son of a Seventh Son... are definitely all better then The Chemical Wedding.

Brave New World and X-Factor are also both arguably better then TCW.

I've tried to like The Chemical Wedding, I really did. But I just don't get the hype. It just feels like a less compelling hard rock version of Iron Maiden. It's not bad, but I really don't get why people like it as much as they do.

Chemical Wedding has a certain dark theme throughout, I love it but I think Accident of Birth is better and more diverse.
I don't like comparing Bruce's solo stuff to Maiden. Maiden has a formula and thy stretch it somewhat but it's still Arry's band.

I could make the argument that Blaze's solo stuff is better than Maiden's latest output but it's not the same, like comparing apples to bowling balls.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:43 pm 
 

Neither BNW nor X Factor is a Maiden highlight for me anyway...

Chemical Wedding is monstrously heavy, wonderfully arcane, just great epic songs.

I would say The Final Frontier and Senjutsu would be highlights of Maiden for me, albeit not as lightning-in-a-bottle as any of their 80s shit.
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HeavenDuff
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Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:52 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Neither BNW nor X Factor is a Maiden highlight for me anyway...


I don't think they are. That's why I said arguably. Although I do understand how The Chemical Wedding might be a more well rounded album then these two, so I wouldn't fight you on this, haha! Brave New World is a fun record, but it's nowhere near as good as so many people make it out to be.

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Chaosmonger
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:59 pm
Posts: 1238
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:00 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
I've tried to like The Chemical Wedding, I really did. But I just don't get the hype. It just feels like a less compelling hard rock version of Iron Maiden. It's not bad, but I really don't get why people like it as much as they do.


Chemical Wedding is metal as fuck dude, I don't know what album you listened to by mistake

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HeavenDuff
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Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:09 pm 
 

Chaosmonger wrote:
HeavenDuff wrote:
I've tried to like The Chemical Wedding, I really did. But I just don't get the hype. It just feels like a less compelling hard rock version of Iron Maiden. It's not bad, but I really don't get why people like it as much as they do.


Chemical Wedding is metal as fuck dude, I don't know what album you listened to by mistake


I didn't mean to say it wasn't, but more that the music feels less innovative then Maiden. It relies on more traditionnal hard rock/heavy metal song structures and riffing, and it doesn't really suit my tastes. After listening to Maiden's genre defining and unique albums throughout my high school years and as a young adult, I came to expect Dickinson to lend his voice to music that was more adventurous, taking the road less traveled and setting the new standard for epic, galloping heavy metal. But TCW, to me, feels a little too safe, a little too slow. I don't know. It just doesn't really work for me.

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Metal Shark
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:54 am
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:14 pm 
 

Spiner202 wrote:
77hjrttfred wrote:
tahu157 wrote:

Which I suppose leads to my unpopular opinion: Alice should be no the archives. There's no question in my mind that Raise Your Fist and Yell is 100% a metal album, and arguably Brutal Planet is as well. Even something like Hey Stoopid is equivalent to what Ozzy was doing at the time (though I'll acknowledge that Ozzy was more metal prior to 1991).


HELL YES. Even the 70's stuff is heavy for the time period, musically and lyrically. And he's obviously MASSIVLEY influential on acts like Lizzy Borden and Impaler.


https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Impaler/10104

Holy shit, I didn't know they had that many albums! :lol:

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R Blake Dove
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:42 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:28 pm 
 

Black Sabbath with Tony Martin is second best, only beaten by the Dio years.

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Chaosmonger
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:59 pm
Posts: 1238
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:36 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
I didn't mean to say it wasn't, but more that the music feels less innovative then Maiden. It relies on more traditionnal hard rock/heavy metal song structures and riffing, and it doesn't really suit my tastes. After listening to Maiden's genre defining and unique albums throughout my high school years and as a young adult, I came to expect Dickinson to lend his voice to music that was more adventurous, taking the road less traveled and setting the new standard for epic, galloping heavy metal. But TCW, to me, feels a little too safe, a little too slow. I don't know. It just doesn't really work for me.
[/quote]

It definitely doesn't sound anything like Maiden. It's more comparable to something like Strange Highways or Dehumanizer but with way better songwriting.

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Spiner202
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 3:32 pm
Posts: 2427
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:53 pm 
 

Metal Shark wrote:
Spiner202 wrote:
Which I suppose leads to my unpopular opinion: Alice should be no the archives. There's no question in my mind that Raise Your Fist and Yell is 100% a metal album, and arguably Brutal Planet is as well. Even something like Hey Stoopid is equivalent to what Ozzy was doing at the time (though I'll acknowledge that Ozzy was more metal prior to 1991).


HELL YES. Even the 70's stuff is heavy for the time period, musically and lyrically. And he's obviously MASSIVLEY influential on acts like Lizzy Borden and Impaler.


Agreed - I've always maintained that the guitar harmonies on the Killer album (specifically the title track and Dead Babies) rival anything any band would do later in the decade, and sound incredibly metal. On the basis of an entire album, it's harder to make a case for those 70s albums than the other ones I mentioned though.
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des91
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:51 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:53 pm 
 

Divine Intervention is 3rd best Slayer after Hell… and RIB, and it does the whole toned down Slayer of SOH and Seasons better. Those are still great albums though.

The only Carcass album good from front to back is Reek. Much respect to their personnel however.

Russ Anderson from Forbidden is a top 3 Thrash singer (of the clean vocals type). He was able to have a perfect mid range Thrash bark, fantastic high notes and a pretty decent mellow singing voice.

Breaking the Silence>Victims of Deception

Morbid Saint’s Spectrum of Death demo version was better than the full length official release.

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Metal Shark
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:54 am
Posts: 638
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:13 pm 
 

Ill-Starred Son wrote:
ThStealthK wrote:
The word "overrated" is subjective and more so when it comes to bands that are clearly a phenomenon, in this case, Iron Maiden.


Yeah, I've always disliked the word "overrated" when it comes to any kind of art because art is subjective so "rating" really doesn't make sense.

It's more something I'd use where you can actually verify skill level. For example, I'm an MMA fan so you could say that you think a particular fighter is "overrated" because his record isn't that good or his opponents weren't that good, his skill set, etc., but saying it about music or really any kind of art doesn't make sense to me.



So the word overrated is... OVERRATED? :-D


On the subject of sports, baseball is overrated. MY GAWD, IT'S SO BORING.

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Metal Shark
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:54 am
Posts: 638
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:18 pm 
 

joppek wrote:
Sunioj_Paul wrote:
Judas Priest are so cheesy they are unlistenable to me.


i can sort of understand this about painkiller and stuff, but have you tried giving their earlier albums a chance? sad wings and stained class in particular



:metal: :metal:

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Benedict Donald
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:36 am
Posts: 568
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:39 pm 
 

oldmetalhead wrote:
HeavenDuff wrote:
markhebb wrote:
Bruce Dickinson’s The Chemical Wedding is better than 95% of Iron mIaden’s catalogue.


Iron Maiden, Killers, The Number of The Beast, Piece of Mind, Powerslave, Somewhere in Time, Seventh Son of a Seventh Son... are definitely all better then The Chemical Wedding.

Brave New World and X-Factor are also both arguably better then TCW.

I've tried to like The Chemical Wedding, I really did. But I just don't get the hype. It just feels like a less compelling hard rock version of Iron Maiden. It's not bad, but I really don't get why people like it as much as they do.

Chemical Wedding has a certain dark theme throughout, I love it but I think Accident of Birth is better and more diverse.


I, too, love Chemical but view AOB as the far superior record of the two. AOB is almost flawless.

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