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Ill-Starred Son
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:07 pm 
 

I started wondering this recently and was reminded of it by the NWOBHM thread.

So, generally speaking, I have always heard that NWOBHM is specifically a term for metal bands who came out of the UK and released their 1st full length album between 1978-1982, but I only ever hear of British bands being mentioned.

Scotland, Ireland and Wales are also part of the UK, so were there any NWOBHM bands that came out of these countries?

Also, just a geographical question, but what really is the difference between Great Britain and the UK anyway? Doesn't Great Britain also include some of these other countries?

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pyratebastard
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:31 pm 
 

Holocaust were a Scottish NWOBHM band, from Edinburgh.

As for your geographical question, here is a rough guide:

Great Britain is an island. On this island, there are three countries (England, Wales, Scotland) which are all part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Ireland is an island, but there is also a independent nation called the Republic of Ireland, consisting of around 83% of the island. The northern 17% is a country called 'Northern Ireland' and it is part of the United Kingdom.
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Last edited by pyratebastard on Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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pyratebastard
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:39 pm 
 

Budgie (Wales) were a bit early to be called NWOBHM, but their successors Tredegar probably count.

There was also Sweet Savage from Northern Ireland.
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Caspian88
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Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:19 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:39 pm 
 

Great Britain is the island that contains the countries of England, Scotland, and Wales. The United Kingdom includes those countries, plus the country of Northern Ireland, plus a smattering of other territory around the world.

It gets even more confusing when you add the Isle of Man, or Jersey and Guernsey, which are Crown Dependencies and subject to the authority of the British monarch, but are not part of the United Kingdom and never have been, but which are sort-of under UK jurisdiction for certain things (like defense).

All of these lands are (at least sort-of) British (you will sometimes hear arguments against one or another, and I don't know well enough about the Crown Dependencies).

...

As for the NWOBHM, you're right, most of the significant bands were English. This probably isn't surprising - England makes up something like 85% of the population of the UK.

Holocaust was Scottish. Sweet Savage was from Belfast, Northern Ireland. It looks like there were a handful of bands formed in the UK between 1975 and 1985 with "Heavy" or "NWOBHM" genre tags and locations including Scotland, Wales, or Ireland. Holocaust is the only one I immediately recognize.

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orphy
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Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 11:24 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:06 pm 
 

Caspian covered most of the definitions, but it's worth mentioning the term "British Isles" refers to islands of Great Britain, Ireland, Isle of Man, the Hebrides, plus thousands of tiny islands nearby.

Also, I didn't realize that Holocaust were Scottish!
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An Ferbasach
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Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 11:43 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:10 pm 
 

According to the Archives, there were 11 NWOBHM bands from Scotland, 27 from Wales and 4 from Northern Ireland. Possibly Budgie's influence explains Wales having so many more bands than the other two countries.

Not NWOBHM but Brian Robertson (Thin Lizzy & Motörhead) and Jimmy Bain (Rainbow & Dio) are probably the most famous Scottish musicians from that period. It blew my mind when I first found out that the bass player from Rainbow Rising and Holy Diver was from Newtonmore (a tiny village in the Highlands of Scotland).

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An Ferbasach
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Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 11:43 pm
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Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:18 pm 
 

orphy wrote:
Caspian covered most of the definitions, but it's worth mentioning the term "British Isles" refers to islands of Great Britain, Ireland, Isle of Man, the Hebrides, plus thousands of tiny islands nearby.

Also, I didn't realize that Holocaust were Scottish!

Though the Irish aren't particularly fond of that term as it suggests Britain having dominion over the whole island.

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Ill-Starred Son
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Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:29 pm 
 

Caspian88 wrote:
Great Britain is the island that contains the countries of England, Scotland, and Wales. The United Kingdom includes those countries, plus the country of Northern Ireland, plus a smattering of other territory around the world.

It gets even more confusing when you add the Isle of Man, or Jersey and Guernsey, which are Crown Dependencies and subject to the authority of the British monarch, but are not part of the United Kingdom and never have been, but which are sort-of under UK jurisdiction for certain things (like defense).

All of these lands are (at least sort-of) British (you will sometimes hear arguments against one or another, and I don't know well enough about the Crown Dependencies).

...

As for the NWOBHM, you're right, most of the significant bands were English. This probably isn't surprising - England makes up something like 85% of the population of the UK.

Holocaust was Scottish. Sweet Savage was from Belfast, Northern Ireland. It looks like there were a handful of bands formed in the UK between 1975 and 1985 with "Heavy" or "NWOBHM" genre tags and locations including Scotland, Wales, or Ireland. Holocaust is the only one I immediately recognize.



So basically what I thought, aside from the British isles which gets confusing, the biggest difference between Great Britain and the UK is that the UK also includes The Republic of Ireland.

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Ill-Starred Son
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:32 pm 
 

An Ferbasach wrote:
According to the Archives, there were 11 NWOBHM bands from Scotland, 27 from Wales and 4 from Northern Ireland. Possibly Budgie's influence explains Wales having so many more bands than the other two countries.

Not NWOBHM but Brian Robertson (Thin Lizzy & Motörhead) and Jimmy Bain (Rainbow & Dio) are probably the most famous Scottish musicians from that period. It blew my mind when I first found out that the bass player from Rainbow Rising and Holy Diver was from Newtonmore (a tiny village in the Highlands of Scotland).


What kind of search did you put in to find those other bands?

I put NWOBHM in the genre box for a search and every band just shows up as being from the UK so I can't figure out which ones individually were from those countries and I'd like to see which ones they are.

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orphy
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Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 11:24 pm
Posts: 286
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:59 pm 
 

Ill-Starred Son wrote:
An Ferbasach wrote:
According to the Archives, there were 11 NWOBHM bands from Scotland, 27 from Wales and 4 from Northern Ireland. Possibly Budgie's influence explains Wales having so many more bands than the other two countries.

Not NWOBHM but Brian Robertson (Thin Lizzy & Motörhead) and Jimmy Bain (Rainbow & Dio) are probably the most famous Scottish musicians from that period. It blew my mind when I first found out that the bass player from Rainbow Rising and Holy Diver was from Newtonmore (a tiny village in the Highlands of Scotland).


What kind of search did you put in to find those other bands?

I put NWOBHM in the genre box for a search and every band just shows up as being from the UK so I can't figure out which ones individually were from those countries and I'd like to see which ones they are.

I would assume putting whichever country in the "city/state/province" field in the advanced search.
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Ill-Starred Son
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:08 pm 
 

orphy wrote:
Ill-Starred Son wrote:
An Ferbasach wrote:
According to the Archives, there were 11 NWOBHM bands from Scotland, 27 from Wales and 4 from Northern Ireland. Possibly Budgie's influence explains Wales having so many more bands than the other two countries.

Not NWOBHM but Brian Robertson (Thin Lizzy & Motörhead) and Jimmy Bain (Rainbow & Dio) are probably the most famous Scottish musicians from that period. It blew my mind when I first found out that the bass player from Rainbow Rising and Holy Diver was from Newtonmore (a tiny village in the Highlands of Scotland).


What kind of search did you put in to find those other bands?

I put NWOBHM in the genre box for a search and every band just shows up as being from the UK so I can't figure out which ones individually were from those countries and I'd like to see which ones they are.

I would assume putting whichever country in the "city/state/province" field in the advanced search.


Yeah, that's probably the answer. Thanks.

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An Ferbasach
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Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 11:43 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:18 pm 
 

Ill-Starred Son wrote:
So basically what I thought, aside from the British isles which gets confusing, the biggest difference between Great Britain and the UK is that the UK also includes The Republic of Ireland.

The UK includes Northern Ireland, not the Republic of Ireland (officially the country is called Ireland, Republic of Ireland is only the official description). It does get a bit confusing :-D

Ill-Starred Son wrote:
orphy wrote:
Ill-Starred Son wrote:
What kind of search did you put in to find those other bands?

I put NWOBHM in the genre box for a search and every band just shows up as being from the UK so I can't figure out which ones individually were from those countries and I'd like to see which ones they are.

I would assume putting whichever country in the "city/state/province" field in the advanced search.


Yeah, that's probably the answer. Thanks.

Yep, that was how I got the results.

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Necrodictator
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Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:33 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:22 pm 
 

You could just use advanced search on this very website to answer this question.

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An Ferbasach
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Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 11:43 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:26 pm 
 

Also, it's quite amusing that the Heard and McDonald Islands (along with a few other random places) are classified as countries on the Archives but Scotland isn't.

I'm fairly neutral on the current Scottish independence question, but if it means we get to be classed as a country on Metal Archives, that might just swing my vote :-P

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DeadKid
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Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:51 am
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:47 pm 
 

An Ferbasach wrote:
According to the Archives, there were 11 NWOBHM bands from Scotland, 27 from Wales and 4 from Northern Ireland. Possibly Budgie's influence explains Wales having so many more bands than the other two countries.

Also worth pointing out there's more bands from the era who are under Heavy Metal but not NWOBHM, including 6 or so from Ireland given their country is outside of the 'B'.
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Terri23
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:45 pm 
 

The link below should help answer the initial question. Interestingly, there's a whole slew of punk bands that most definitely were not part of the NWOBHM, such as Discharge and Amebix.

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collingwood77
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Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:43 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 4:31 pm 
 

Heavy Pettin' were from Glasgow, Scotland. Their MA page lists them as NWOBHM.

Nazareth (not normally seen as NWOBHM) were from Dunfermline, Scotland.

Also someone told me that the Exploited (not NWOBHM) were from East Kilbride before they moved to Edinburgh. Can anyone verify that? Are there any sources?

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collingwood77
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Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:43 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 4:38 pm 
 

An Ferbasach wrote:
According to the Archives, there were 11 NWOBHM bands from Scotland, 27 from Wales and 4 from Northern Ireland. Possibly Budgie's influence explains Wales having so many more bands than the other two countries.

Not NWOBHM but Brian Robertson (Thin Lizzy & Motörhead) and Jimmy Bain (Rainbow & Dio) are probably the most famous Scottish musicians from that period. It blew my mind when I first found out that the bass player from Rainbow Rising and Holy Diver was from Newtonmore (a tiny village in the Highlands of Scotland).


Don't forget the mighty Nazareth from the ancient Scottish capital of Dunfermline!

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Opus
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:16 pm 
 

I'd say Mama's Boys from northern Ireland was closely related to Nwobhm.
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oldmetalhead
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 10:17 pm 
 

I didn't know Nazareth were from Scotland. Killer band, not metal but along the lines of BOC and Jethro Tull as far as heaviness mixed with radio friendly anthems/ballads, southern rock and progressive. I highly recommend folks to listen to their albums that were before Hair of the Dog (which is great, just the one that got them commercial respect). Some very good listening there. Start with Loud and Proud.

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Napalm_Satan
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 10:30 pm 
 

Image

To answer your geographical question. And yes 'British Isles' is a not a term Irish nationalists appreciate as it can suggest British dominance over Ireland.
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sevenwinter
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:13 pm 
 

Y Diawled are from Wales.
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collingwood77
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Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:43 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2021 2:44 pm 
 

oldmetalhead wrote:
I didn't know Nazareth were from Scotland. Killer band, not metal but along the lines of BOC and Jethro Tull as far as heaviness mixed with radio friendly anthems/ballads, southern rock and progressive. I highly recommend folks to listen to their albums that were before Hair of the Dog (which is great, just the one that got them commercial respect). Some very good listening there. Start with Loud and Proud.


I have only listened to the No Mean City album, I need to hear more. I love how they are equally strong at ballads and hard-rock tracks, a rare talent. And they let the songs breathe, much like AC/DC, Priest, and Lizzy of the same era (late-70s).

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Ivan Drago
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Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:10 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2021 5:53 pm 
 

Ill-Starred Son wrote:

So basically what I thought, aside from the British isles which gets confusing, the biggest difference between Great Britain and the UK is that the UK also includes The Republic of Ireland.

Best not mention you think that if you ever happen to visit Ireland!

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Durag
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Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:51 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:20 pm 
 

The Republic Of Ireland is NOT in the UK and the term 'British Isles' isn't an acceptable term to use from an Irish perspective:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British ... ng_dispute

To answer the question, i would also be quite curious about this as I don't know

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Ill-Starred Son
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:10 pm 
 

Ivan Drago wrote:
Ill-Starred Son wrote:

So basically what I thought, aside from the British isles which gets confusing, the biggest difference between Great Britain and the UK is that the UK also includes The Republic of Ireland.

Best not mention you think that if you ever happen to visit Ireland!


I did visit Ireland (not Northern Ireland) as a teenager.

I don't know what my geographical perspective was then lol, but it never came up.

Great country.

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Ill-Starred Son
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:10 pm 
 

Durag wrote:
The Republic Of Ireland is NOT in the UK and the term 'British Isles' isn't an acceptable term to use from an Irish perspective:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British ... ng_dispute

To answer the question, i would also be quite curious about this as I don't know


I'll be sure to remember that if I ever go back.

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joppek
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2021 8:17 am 
 

cgp grey's old video is a nice short deeper dive for the geography/country question - though of course the part about the eu is deprecated

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNu8XDBSn10
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