Encyclopaedia Metallum: The Metal Archives

Message board

* FAQ    * Register   * Login 



Reply to topic
Author Message Previous topic | Next topic
pfk505
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:04 am
Posts: 420
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 5:12 am 
 

^ totally agree. I'm not much into thrash but all of early Sepultura up to and including Chaos AD absolutely fucking slaps.

Top
 Profile  
joppek
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:36 am
Posts: 2276
Location: Suomi Finland Perkele
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 9:01 am 
 

beneath the remains is probably my fav thrash album ever, and schizophrenia is fantastic as well

arise came out between remains and chaos and it definitely sounds like it - it's a dreadful sign of things to come

i thought i was in a smaller minority with this, having usually seen arise lauded everywhere as their peak, but i'm glad to see so many people giving preference to the by far better stuff

also morbid visions is pretty fun in its eager sloppiness, but not really an album i feel like listening to hardly ever (tho' it's still a lot more enjoyable than anything that came after remains)
_________________
All the best bands are affiliated with Satan. -Bart Simpson

Top
 Profile  
gzusrocker
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:05 am
Posts: 69
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 9:06 am 
 

From Schizophrenia to Arise, they're all top-tier. But, in Brazil, i still think Laws of the Scourge, by Sarcófago, reigns supreme.

Top
 Profile  
Cosmic_Equilibrium
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:03 pm
Posts: 660
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 1:31 pm 
 

Can people please stop trying to peddle the idea that somehow Arise is a pointer to Chaos AD and Roots. I honestly don't understand where on earth this perspective is coming from. Maybe there are a few slower and groovy sections on Arise, but that's about it. And about 90-95% of the time the album is ferocious thrash metal.

Regardless of one's opinions on the two albums following, just how on earth is there a direct line between something like Desperate Cry and the blatant nu metal styling of Roots? Even with Chaos AD the shift is quite large and Arise just isn't a template for the following album like some claim.

Just stop it. These claims are ridiculous and in all honesty sound like thrash fundamentalists trying to map Arise as being the point where Sepultura moved away from thrash when Arise is a thrash album from start to finish. I honestly think some folk seem to like doing the album down and don't want to acknowledge its strengths in order to reinforce their own perceptions.

This is like trying to claim Metallica displayed signs of a more commercial direction on AJFA because the riff of Frayed Ends Of Sanity sounds a bit like Through The Never and they started headlining arenas.

Top
 Profile  
des91
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:51 pm
Posts: 249
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 1:48 pm 
 

Yeah I have to agree, with you ^^. I mentioned the two more slower songs Altered State and Under Siege but those don’t sound like some Groove Metal at all. They’re just more doomy, smothering and sinister which describes a lot of Death Metal songs. So I guess that type of Deatg Metal is really close to being Groove Metal now? Okay…

Again I’m just not a huge fan of those two songs, but they aren’t bad, they just kinda mess up the flow of the album because their riffs or composition or something just isn’t up to par with the rest of the songs. But they aren’t “Groove Metal” in the slightest, more Death Metal influenced mid paces Thrash tunes.

Top
 Profile  
brain hammer
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:55 pm
Posts: 150
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:52 pm 
 

Both albums are top tier thrash for their respective years of release.

I personally rank “Beneath The Remains” as the 2nd best thrash album of 1989, with Kreator “Extreme Aggression” as number 1 and Sodom “Agent Orange” as number 3. I can then name another 37 thrash albums from that year that I also love, but would rank lower than “Beneath The Remains.” It’s an undisputed classic.

Interestingly enough, “Arise” ranks as my 2nd best thrash album of 1991, with Overkill “Horrorscope” as number 1 and Devastation “Idolatry” as number 3. Thrash was slowing down at that point, but I can still name another 17 thrash albums from that year that I also love, but rank lower than “Arise.” Another absolute classic.

For perspective, I rank “Morbid Visions” as my 9th favorite thrash album from 1986 and “Schizophrenia” as my 9th thrash album from 1987. They were always great, but the competition was stronger in 86-87.

Top
 Profile  
hells_unicorn
Veteran

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 2849
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 4:50 pm 
 

Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
Can people please stop trying to peddle the idea that somehow Arise is a pointer to Chaos AD and Roots. I honestly don't understand where on earth this perspective is coming from. Maybe there are a few slower and groovy sections on Arise, but that's about it. And about 90-95% of the time the album is ferocious thrash metal.

Regardless of one's opinions on the two albums following, just how on earth is there a direct line between something like Desperate Cry and the blatant nu metal styling of Roots? Even with Chaos AD the shift is quite large and Arise just isn't a template for the following album like some claim.

Just stop it. These claims are ridiculous and in all honesty sound like thrash fundamentalists trying to map Arise as being the point where Sepultura moved away from thrash when Arise is a thrash album from start to finish. I honestly think some folk seem to like doing the album down and don't want to acknowledge its strengths in order to reinforce their own perceptions.

This is like trying to claim Metallica displayed signs of a more commercial direction on AJFA because the riff of Frayed Ends Of Sanity sounds a bit like Through The Never and they started headlining arenas.


Agreed 100%, part of the reason why I had such a negative reaction to Chaos A.D. when it was first released is that it didn't sound like the same band, AT ALL! I can't make any logical connections from Arise to what followed from a musical standpoint except for the fact that the entire metal scene had changed and they had decided to swap out their old style to try and ride the commercial coattails of Ministry and Pantera.

On a side note, I'd also like to state that while I'm not as anti-Black Album as many old school Metallica and thrash fans, it strikes me as bizarre that someone would point out a connection to Through The Never as a negative, it's basically the most thrashing and best overall song to appear in Metallica's entire discography post-AJFA. Furthermore, anyone who has actually watched the published studio footage and interviews regarding the self-titled album's recording and production will note that Metallica was being directed by Bob Rock to play in an entirely different fashion than anything they had done previously, so any inferences that AJFA was pointing to The Black Album betrays a level of ignorance regarding how the latter came into being.
_________________
My music:
Ominous Glory Spotify
Ominous Glory YouTube
Ominous Glory Facebook

My reviews.

R.I.P. Ronnie James Dio (July 14, 1942 - May 16, 2010)

Top
 Profile  
Cosmic_Equilibrium
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:03 pm
Posts: 660
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 5:16 pm 
 

^ Yeah, the Frayed Ends/Through The Never comparison isn't one people tend to make TBH, I could have explained it better. What I originally meant to say was that I have seen some claims that certain bits of AJFA here and there show a tendency to simpler riffing in places that points the way to Enter Sandman etc. But that doesn't mean AJFA is an indicator of Metallica moving in a more commercial direction. Likewise a few groove/slower sections on Arise don't lay out a template for the next two albums.

EDIT: This area of discussion came up last year in the Arise 30th anniversary thread (I checked my post history as I thought I'd made similar comments before about the album). Someone in that thread pointed out that Arise is more like a South of Heaven/ Seasons in the Abyss type of deal, in that you can't top the previous album for sheer speed and intensity, so you mix things up a bit on the following record, while still retaining the thrash sound. I agree with this opinion. Nowhere, however, do you read people trying to claim that either of those two albums is a predecessor to Diabolus in Musica, so why people claim Arise leads to Roots is strange. If anything, Arise is closer to Beneath The Remains in intensity in places in a way South of Heaven and Seasons in the Abyss aren't quite when compared to Reign In Blood.

Top
 Profile  
Sunioj_Paul
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 4:46 pm
Posts: 143
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 5:42 pm 
 

Both albums easily two of the best metal albums released in the late 80s and early 90s. BTR is just a brilliant thrash metal of its time, ferocious, full of cool riffs and some amazing guitar solos. The middle section to Mass Hypnosis is fucking godly.

Arise is slightly different as it has more slower sections and is a lot heavier but this is where Sepultura really learned to get their groove on. The song writing is brilliant with some of the catchiest riffs ever.

Chaos AD was something completely different but the metal scene had changed by then. Thrash was not en vogue and things were changing. Always liked this album as it was experimental and brave for them at the time but works perfectly. Heavy as fuck and the songs are totally unique from each other.

Top
 Profile  
Ludorff
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 10:38 pm
Posts: 94
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 6:31 pm 
 

Both albums are top tier. Some of the best thrash riffs ever.

Top
 Profile  
OriginOfDisease
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:38 am
Posts: 6
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 8:35 pm 
 

Absolutely! I love both, but BtR is certainly my favourite of the two.

Top
 Profile  
MetlaNZ
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:45 pm
Posts: 1558
Location: Lost in Necropolis
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:58 am 
 

BTR and Arise are fuckin wicked and I've always found it hard to pick a favourite between the 2 albums, so I don't. Love em both.
Schizophrenia, as much as I dig it for it's Slayer worship and youthful enthusiasm, is a big step down in EVERY department compared to it's follow ups.
Chaos A.D. is where they found their own totally unique voice and I love it, warts 'n' all. Then they abandoned it for fuckin nu-metal! Fuckin what the fuck?!
Oh well, whatevs, nevermind, I'm so fuckin stoked I got to see them in '92 & '94 (I may have mentioned that before, long ago, far away, in another thread... or 2).

Top
 Profile  
Dungeon_Vic
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:00 am
Posts: 1342
Location: Greece
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:29 am 
 

I'm with those that consider their 4-streak (Schizo-Chaos) as one of the best in metal. Beneath the Remains will always be my absolute favorite and I would include it in my top 20 of metal albums ever, top 10 thrash.

Favorite songs would be the s/t, Slaves of Pain, Mass Hypnosis.
_________________
42

King Diamond: A Royal Tribute (short guide to King Diamond's discography)

Vic's Dungeon:

The Dungeon Awards for 2017

Best of 2017, Part II: 5+1 more albums

Let's talk about Ghost (aka Stop the Madness)

Top
 Profile  
Rodman
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:15 am
Posts: 756
Location: Sydney, Australia
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:03 am 
 

Both incredible. End of story.
_________________
https://thephosphorusbombs.bandcamp.com/ - Hardcorethrashpunk from Sydney, Australia. Check out our latest record '...Against You!' - https://open.spotify.com/album/4sO3nrVr ... 5GZXBLuKiQ

Top
 Profile  
Twisted_Psychology
Metal freak

Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 8:22 pm
Posts: 5796
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:04 am 
 

I've never been to get into Beneath the Remains for the life of me. It's a solid album but the aside from the title track and Inner Self, the songs just end up sounding interchangeable. Arise is the one Sepultura album that I flat out love. I can understand the talk of incorporating groove elements but between the building intros and fluctuating tempos, it just makes for a more dynamic listen.
_________________
Christopher Steve (Doom Folk/Americana): http://christophersteve.bandcamp.com/
Lavaborne (Power Doom): https://lavaborne.bandcamp.com
Spirit Division (Stoner Doom): http://spiritdivision.bandcamp.com

Top
 Profile  
jose_G
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon May 11, 2020 1:02 pm
Posts: 234
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:09 am 
 

schizophrenia and beneath... arise is boring to me

Top
 Profile  
ArcticSwarm
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 3:21 pm
Posts: 71
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:04 pm 
 

Both phenomenal as far as I'm concerned.
Arise over Beneath. Arise is a top ten thrash album of all time for me, Beneath probably top 20.
Arise: Title track
Beneath: Inner Self

Top
 Profile  
Cabecao
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:59 pm
Posts: 149
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:27 pm 
 

I regard them as top tier thrash. BtR was the first Sepultura I'd heard (1990) and it blew me away. In saying that, Arise is even better. More polished imo. I finally bought Arise in 92 or early 93 with saved up Xmas money. I still have that CD as well as a couple of remasters and a vinyl version (only vinyl I own).
Arise is my favourite album full stop. I still spin it regularly. My favourite song from BtR is the title track and my favourite from Arise is Desperate Cry.

I get the love for Schizophrenia as it's awesome. BtR and Arise just have that something more for me. Dungeon_Vic mentioned the Schizo-Chaos AD four album run is among the best in metal. I 100% agree.

Top
 Profile  
Pitiless Wanderer
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:34 pm
Posts: 1661
Location: Ankara
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:32 pm 
 

Yeah, nothing top tier about any Sepultura album.

Top
 Profile  
Smalley
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:06 am
Posts: 1197
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:33 am 
 

Pitiless Wanderer wrote:
Yeah, nothing top tier about any Sepultura album.
Thanks for the contribution.
_________________
Home Forum
Golden Age Of Metal

Top
 Profile  
Lagartija
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:27 am
Posts: 1561
Location: Catalunya
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:29 pm 
 

Great to see all the love for 'Schizophrenia' here. I thought it was an overlooked album, but clearly it's not.
_________________
Maggot penetration wrote:
Nothing wrong with not liking shit music

TheLoneForest wrote:
Boomerism off the mf charts

Top
 Profile  
collingwood77
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:43 pm
Posts: 321
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:40 am 
 

gzusrocker wrote:
From Schizophrenia to Arise, they're all top-tier. But, in Brazil, i still think Laws of the Scourge, by Sarcófago, reigns supreme.


I agree completely and I'm not even from Brazil. For some reason, that album just gets ignored - I guess because it can't compete with the Sepultura brand-name and because many people just assume Sarcofago only released Black Metal albums.

Top
 Profile  
collingwood77
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:43 pm
Posts: 321
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:42 am 
 

Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
Can people please stop trying to peddle the idea that somehow Arise is a pointer to Chaos AD and Roots. I honestly don't understand where on earth this perspective is coming from. Maybe there are a few slower and groovy sections on Arise, but that's about it. And about 90-95% of the time the album is ferocious thrash metal.

Regardless of one's opinions on the two albums following, just how on earth is there a direct line between something like Desperate Cry and the blatant nu metal styling of Roots? Even with Chaos AD the shift is quite large and Arise just isn't a template for the following album like some claim.

Just stop it. These claims are ridiculous and in all honesty sound like thrash fundamentalists trying to map Arise as being the point where Sepultura moved away from thrash when Arise is a thrash album from start to finish. I honestly think some folk seem to like doing the album down and don't want to acknowledge its strengths in order to reinforce their own perceptions.

This is like trying to claim Metallica displayed signs of a more commercial direction on AJFA because the riff of Frayed Ends Of Sanity sounds a bit like Through The Never and they started headlining arenas.


Great post, it's revising history in no-one's best interests.

Top
 Profile  
collingwood77
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:43 pm
Posts: 321
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:44 am 
 

brain hammer wrote:
Both albums are top tier thrash for their respective years of release.

I personally rank “Beneath The Remains” as the 2nd best thrash album of 1989, with Kreator “Extreme Aggression” as number 1 and Sodom “Agent Orange” as number 3. I can then name another 37 thrash albums from that year that I also love, but would rank lower than “Beneath The Remains.” It’s an undisputed classic.

Interestingly enough, “Arise” ranks as my 2nd best thrash album of 1991, with Overkill “Horrorscope” as number 1 and Devastation “Idolatry” as number 3. Thrash was slowing down at that point, but I can still name another 17 thrash albums from that year that I also love, but rank lower than “Arise.” Another absolute classic.

For perspective, I rank “Morbid Visions” as my 9th favorite thrash album from 1986 and “Schizophrenia” as my 9th thrash album from 1987. They were always great, but the competition was stronger in 86-87.


Man, I can see you love lists. I can imagine you at a party: I rank Suzie as the 7th best-looking girl at this party but only 49th overall at our school.

Top
 Profile  
LegendMaker
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:24 am
Posts: 1825
Location: France
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:26 am 
 

A lot of posts in this thread remind me of stuff that always pops up whenever there's a discussion on whether or not a band is metal. You know, all the posts that completely conflate "heavy music", "metal", and "good", despite all three being very different things with only some overlap. Here, the OP itself set the tone for "thrash", "great" and "Sepultura's peak" to be confused, but they're three different things as well...

This thread also kind of helped me understand why some songs I typically skip in a thrash band's discography turn out to be fan favorites and even concert staples for some of these bands, like the title track from 'Pleasure to Kill' which is basically the only song Kreator still plays off of it and is apparently loved by many. If the rest of the album was as bland songwriting wise, it would be gathering dust next to 'Endless Pain' on my shelves. Several people unironically citing what I've always considered unfortunate fillers like 'Infected Voice' or 'Primitive Future', as well as praising the song "Arise" as a highlight of the album it's on gave me a similar WTF vibe (and a thread about Exodus a few months ago also had many people very seriously mentioning the title track of 'Impact is Imminent' as a highlight; that album is my favorite by Exodus, and I always start it at track 2 ^^).

Texas King wrote:
Do you consider these two classic thrash-era Sepultura albums to be top-tier in thrash metal?


No, I don't. 'Beneath the Remains' is a very good Sepultura album that happens to be thrash. It's not my favorite album by this band, and nowhere near my favorite thrash albums.

'Arise' is the absolute best Sepultura album as far as I'm concerned, and it's thrash-y, but it's so much more than thrash. It's by far my favorite Sepultura album, and one of my favorite metal albums of all time. Calling it "top-tier thrash metal" would be doing it a disservice however. The few strictly thrash songs on it are the least interesting ones in my book (eg the title track, "Infected Voice", "Murder" and "Subtraction").

Texas King wrote:
Do you rate one of them, both or neither very highly?
And which one do you prefer between them? And what's your favorite song on BTR and what's on Arise?


Yes, I rate 'Arise' VERY highly. I love a few songs on BTR but I don't rate that album anywhere as high (nor as high as my favorite thrash albums, like 'Shattered Existence', 'Psycho Savant', 'Bonded by Blood', 'Extreme Aggression' or, for that matter 'Schizophrenia').

My favorite songs off of 'Arise' would be "Altered State", "Meaningless Movements", "Desperate Cry", "Under Siege (Regnum Irae)", and "Dead Embryonic Cells". I like "Arise" fine, but it's nowhere near on par with those for me. The rest of the album is skippable as far as I'm concerned.

My favorites off of BTR would be "Hungry", "Slaves of Pain", the title track, and "Inner Self". I like "Stronger Than Hate", but not as much as these. The rest of the album is skippable to me.
_________________
Osore wrote:
I would like to hear some recommendations of black metal bands/albums that sound depressive, yet sad and melancholic at the same time.

Top
 Profile  
Sunbuilder
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:33 pm
Posts: 20
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:45 pm 
 

Schizophrenia is my personal favorite album by Sepultura and one of my favorite thrash metal albums of all time for the overall raw, yet refined production and aggression, the crunchy riffs and that nice thick and heavy guitar tone. The following two albums are more refined, but have some more new cool ideas that were added like the clean ringing guitars on "Inner Self" and the cool bassy part at the end of "Stronger than Hate." Although Schizophrenia is my personal favorite, I would still say that Beneath the Remains is a hair below Schizophreina, and then Arise is a hair below Beneath the Remains lol. Arise still has some great riffs with some cool crunchy riffs and goovy parts on Dead Embryonic Cells," "Desperate Cry," and "Subtraction" along with more cool stuff done on bass. Really all three are solid thrash metal albums for sure though and I would consider among the best albums in the genre in my opinion!

Top
 Profile  
JCP524
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:37 pm
Posts: 34
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:39 pm 
 

Not really my thing but I can see why people like it.

for all the jungle boy talk the songwriting and tone seems rather tame to me.

Top
 Profile  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic Go to page Previous  1, 2


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 299796kms, Frank Booth, Korpgud and 24 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

  Print view
Jump to:  

Back to the Encyclopaedia Metallum


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group