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acid_bukkake
SAD!

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:45 am
Posts: 2232
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:43 pm 
 

Byrain wrote:
The better approach is to engage them in discussion where the error or their views can be explained. Maybe they won't get it and will still continue to think stupid things, but it is better than further radicalizing them by driving them into the corner with the other actual neo-nazis.

I wasn't there for it, but there was once a major problem in the Boston hardcore scene with Nazi Skins. The belief, for too long, was that open dialogue would convince them they were wrong. It didn't work.

Want to know what did? SHARPs and FSU fighting them on sight. For years this went on until Nazi Skins learned they weren't allowed in Boston. While it's true that FSU became a beast unto themselves, it still stands that there isn't a Nazi Skin presence in Boston because of them, 30something years later.

Fascists cannot be reasoned with. Their entire ideology is predicated upon racial and cultural purity. To paraphrase a very popular film, "they can't be bargained with, they can't be reasoned with."

By engaging in discourse with somebody, you are floating the idea that there is some value to their platform. Not that you agree with it, but that it is valid. "Jews must die" is not a valid platform. "Blacks are subhuman" is not a valid platform. "Exterminate the homosexuals" is not a valid platform.

Entertaining these ideas, and allowing them to continue to spread, is why we've seen such a resurgence in these views, and legitimizing them by "debating" them is a waste of resources.
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Of course with your approach there is also risk of ending up with witch trails where people are accused of being nazis or some other bad thing regardless if that is true or not. Just see Death in June who has been canceled numerous times despite not actually being nazis and simply having a strong historical interest in ww2. If you engage people rather than reflexively shun or punish them these errors will be far less common.

Yes. People who are not Nazis will be accused of such for reasons as simple as "they wrote a song about WWII." This is going to happen. Are you somehow saying this is anywhere near as bad as what actual Nazi shitheads wish would happen to those they deem "lesser"? The term has been overused, arguably intentionally, so that a return of those ideas to the mainstream consciousness wouldn't be seen as the level of insanity that it actually is.
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Curious_dead
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts: 1476
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:51 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
It's like suggesting that it's up to women to convince men to not be misogynists through calm dialogue, while they continue to spout off hateful and contemptuous rhetoric about them.


Great analogy. I'll try to remember it next time someone tells me to peacefully debate Nazis or other violent fascists.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:44 pm 
 

In addition, many people who want debate and reasonable conversation with fascists really just have no qualms about fascist logic and reasoning being mainstreamed. Not everybody, but many times this kind of rhetoric will lead to "well what's wrong with what they're saying anyway?" or "both sides are bad" or some other shit.
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wone21r
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:26 am
Posts: 170
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:59 pm 
 

I found the sunglasses quote I was referring to on the previous page. I was a little bit off,
It was in a discussion relating to the war metal aesthetic (bands like Blasphemy etc):

"The wraparound sunglasses are a right-wing thing pretty much everywhere"
"For real"
"here in Australia at least the association is so strong that you will never see leftists wear them."
"From conservatives ranting in their cars to chuds in NS bands wraparound sunglasses have become the accessory of choice for reactionaries who have issues with toxic masculinity."


This is obviously a ridiculous thing to say - but my reason for bringing it up is because people that jump on the train of "both sides / censorship / the left has gone mad etc" need to be brought back down to earth to realise that they're getting swept up in something that isn't real.

Fuck nazis, there's nothing to debate and no, a handful of idiots on the internet does not represent the entire metal community. If you're thinking to yourself that you don't support Nazism, but that "the left" have "gone too far" or some such, you need to realise that your reacting to things that aren't real.

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Gas_Snake
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:07 am
Posts: 161
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:49 am 
 

This entire discussion is making me vomit my soul twenty times over. Nothing meaningful can come from trying to debate the ideology, you're either condemning it utterly or are a certified fuckwit. This isn't bloody politics, it's something that no sane man, woman, child, dog or amoeba should be having second thoughts about. I say this as someone who comes from a country that* fought a grueling war against the armies of Nazi Germany in the 1940's, repelling an invasion that had notable chances of succeeding. What the fucking fuck.

Curious_dead wrote:
Great analogy. I'll try to remember it next time someone tells me to peacefully debate Nazis or other violent fascists.


Do not debate, do not spend your breath and tongue on conversing with such persons. Run from them like you would from a psychotic killer, call the fucking cops. They are, at the very best, woefully uneducated dummkopfs with a skewed sense of morality, at worst, active supporters of an inhumane ideology aiming to end your life and should be treated as such.

I have not visited AMG and have no desire to. Is there a way for me to hide specific threads on this forum? Because FUCK this thread, and FUCK Nazis.

* Technically it was part of the Soviet Union then, but my point still stands.
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Prairieshadow
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:01 am
Posts: 464
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:51 am 
 

These discussions always get so cringe.

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Gas_Snake
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:07 am
Posts: 161
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:02 am 
 

It's a discussion of an extremist ideology. Why wouldn't it make you uncomfortable?
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TheBurningOfSodom wrote:
... stop laying the blame on me alone, as next time I see you calling out my name in public just to vent your frustration, as if I were some sort of second coming of Stalin, I might stop being so polite and I might even tell you where to put your Philosophy degree.

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matras
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:01 am
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Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:45 am 
 

There's nothing extreme about being against nazis. It's common fucking sense.

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nephilim80
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Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:49 am
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:59 am 
 

My take on this would be simple: i wouldn't censor these people. Along with the reviews i'd make sure to inform the public that the band in question is nazi sympathizer. You can enjoy their music still, but it's your choice to support them financially.

F*ck em and their message. Actually, f*ck any extreme political ideology. Any person with two functioning brain cells understands what nazism stands for. They would be screaming from the top of their lungs but no one would listen. That would the appropriate humiliation. Allowed to spread their hateful message, but no one cares, because the public is more educated than that. Eventually they would fade into the void and Nazism would become something only mentioned in History books.
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collingwood77
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Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:43 pm
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:53 am 
 

darkeningday wrote:
I had a very productive conversation with JewicidalBrainiac and ZyklonBhealthy, I raised some good points about The Protocols of the Elders of Zion not being properly peer-reviewed, they raised some good points about my mother being a whore. I hope we can continue these discussions at a later date.


Hilarious, mate, that got me laughing - which is not easy to do on a grey Tuesday afternoon!

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LunarisIsDead
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:14 pm
Posts: 199
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:12 pm 
 

nephilim80 wrote:
My take on this would be simple: i wouldn't censor these people. Along with the reviews i'd make sure to inform the public that the band in question is nazi sympathizer. You can enjoy their music still, but it's your choice to support them financially.

F*ck em and their message. Actually, f*ck any extreme political ideology. Any person with two functioning brain cells understands what nazism stands for. They would be screaming from the top of their lungs but no one would listen. That would the appropriate humiliation. Allowed to spread their hateful message, but no one cares, because the public is more educated than that. Eventually they would fade into the void and Nazism would become something only mentioned in History books.


I understand where you're coming from, but the fact of the matter is, this isn't censorship. People want to avoid giving Nazis and their sympathizers any publicity or coverage, and decide not to review their albums, it's just not anything close to real erasure or censorship. But in the same vein, it's not really "taking a stand against Nazis" or anything of the sort, either. It's not going to hide the evils of Nazism from anybody, nor is it going to stop the spread of their ideas in any meaningful way; it only serves to distance these (privately owned) online spaces from those ideas and the people that preach them.

And I think you give too much credit to the idea of an educated public bringing an end to Nazism. Because... people already know what Nazism is. People already know what white supremacy and ethnostates are. And despite that, we still see the far right and Nazism gaining traction. There's certainly more room to educate people about this stuff, sure, but even then, it's not gonna come from exposure to black metal bands. These ideas will persist, whether they are heavily censored and made illegal, or given a platform and put in the spotlight, or anything in between. Others might think differently, but in my opinion, the point isn't to completely destroy Nazism, because we can't. The point is to keep it out of our communities and out of the art we love.
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pyratebastard
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Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:05 pm
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Location: Pacific Northwest US
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:21 pm 
 

LunarisIsDead wrote:
And I think you give too much credit to the idea of an educated public


Fixed
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I guess most people here are just standard copy pastes more concerned with defending the honor of celebrities than thinking about music.

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GratefulDeadInside
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Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:22 am
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:40 pm 
 

BastardHead wrote:
Every day I find myself shocked that the position of "White supremacy is bad and is inherently based on violence towards marginalized groups, therefore it is bad to give positive coverage to things associated with such ideologies because it leads, directly and indirectly, to financial support for people and organizations who inflict said violence towards marginalized people" would be controversial or worth snarky dismissals, but that's the metal scene for ya I guess.

Controversial music attracts controversial people. NSBM is literally an entire subgenre founded on black metal with nazi imagery. National Socialist Hip Hop or National Socialist Techno doesn't exist (or at least I've never seen it). Shitheads are attracted to this music cause they think they'll find their "people" here.

The hardcore punk scene in the 80's solved this problem by making it loud and clear that nazis weren't welcome at shows, metalheads need to do the same.
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acid_bukkake
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:55 pm 
 

LunarisIsDead wrote:
...the point isn't to completely destroy Nazism, because we can't. The point is to keep it out of our communities and out of the art we love.

GratefulDeadInside wrote:
The hardcore punk scene in the 80's solved this problem by making it loud and clear that nazis weren't welcome at shows, metalheads need to do the same.

Yes and yes.
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Invocation
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Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:11 pm
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:15 pm 
 

I don't think this is a wise move. I think it actually helps Nazis. Black metal fans aren't going to suddenly stop listening to or following Marduk, Mgla, Deathspell Omega, Abigor or Deströyer 666. If mainstream sites like AMG stop covering them then fans will read the remaining sites that do, which might be run by fascist sympathisers pushing a far right agenda and promoting actual NSBM bands.

Additionally, whilst I understand not wanting to cover NSBM bands the category of "nazi-adjacent" bands seems pretty ambiguously defined to me. Where is the line drawn? Why do Mayhem and Watain get a pass but Marduk, Mgla and Abigor don't?

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Ex El Ex El Ex
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Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:53 pm
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Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:08 pm 
 

Invocation wrote:
Additionally, whilst I understand not wanting to cover NSBM bands the category of "nazi-adjacent" bands seems pretty ambiguously defined to me. Where is the line drawn? Why do Mayhem and Watain get a pass but Marduk, Mgla and Abigor don't?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy
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Opus
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:32 pm 
 

acid_bukkake wrote:
Fascists cannot be reasoned with.

It has been done.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Davis


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Bingewolf
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Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:59 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:51 pm 
 

That's also disingenuous... You can find an example of literally anything on Google/YouTube... doesn't make it the usual truth.

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MetlaNZ
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Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:45 pm
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Location: Lost in Necropolis
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:31 am 
 

Opus wrote:
acid_bukkake wrote:
Fascists cannot be reasoned with.

It has been done.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Davis



This is good stuff Opus, great to read and watch something positive in this thread.

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nephilim80
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:49 am
Posts: 237
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:19 am 
 

LunarisIsDead wrote:

I understand where you're coming from, but the fact of the matter is, this isn't censorship.


At the core of what censorship means, it is. Any moral values you may have are indifferent. If you block anyone from speaking because you don't agree with what they're saying, it is censorship. Just like for example, Charlie Hebdo should've thought twice about portraying Mohamed in a comic when he most likely knew that muslims dislike figure representations of Mohamed? Of course not. In a free society you need to have the possibility to say whatever you want because, not only you want a society where people can speak stupid things, but the population has the will to pay no attention to it. That's what desirable. Free speech and an educated population.

LunarisIsDead wrote:
And I think you give too much credit to the idea of an educated public bringing an end to Nazism. Because... people already know what Nazism is. People already know what white supremacy and ethnostates are. And despite that, we still see the far right and Nazism gaining traction.


Agreed with the last part. Far right parties are gaining traction. However they're also being smart. They never claim they are fascists. It's embedded in the political discourse and i think they are gaining traction precisely because we still have a lot of segments of the population who live in relative political obscurantism even with access to the internet. These segments don't usually care for politics and are not really educated to read between the lines. See what happened in Brazil for example. And what is happening in France and Portugal. They're also not incentivized to use the internet for educational purposes, they're being told to use the internet for social media and self promotion. There goes the information age utopia.

LunarisIsDead wrote:
There's certainly more room to educate people about this stuff, sure, but even then, it's not gonna come from exposure to black metal bands.


Why not? That's precisely what i think we should do. Be open about everything and invest in both information and education. Then the public would naturally reject toxic political paradigms. Maybe i'am being too optimistic, but knowing that for example: "this band stands for extreme political ideologies, namely Nazism" would put off 99% of the people.

LunarisIsDead wrote:
These ideas will persist, whether they are heavily censored and made illegal, or given a platform and put in the spotlight, or anything in between. Others might think differently, but in my opinion, the point isn't to completely destroy Nazism, because we can't. The point is to keep it out of our communities and out of the art we love.


You're right. They will always exist, but with a well educated public and 100% free speech across all platforms of public discussion, their numbers would dwindle to almost zero. You can't really control that. Even what a near perfect system you would still have extremists and criminals. Why? Well, that's a whole different discussion.
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CrippledLucifer
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 5:08 am
Posts: 810
Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:50 am 
 

nephilim80 wrote:
LunarisIsDead wrote:

I understand where you're coming from, but the fact of the matter is, this isn't censorship.


At the core of what censorship means, it is. Any moral values you may have are indifferent. If you block anyone from speaking because you don't agree with what they're saying, it is censorship. Just like for example, Charlie Hebdo should've thought twice about portraying Mohamed in a comic when he most likely knew that muslims dislike figure representations of Mohamed? Of course not. In a free society you need to have the possibility to say whatever you want because, not only you want a society where people can speak stupid things, but the population has the will to pay no attention to it. That's what desirable. Free speech and an educated population.

https://xkcd.com/1357/
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nephilim80
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:49 am
Posts: 237
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:43 am 
 

CrippledLucifer wrote:
nephilim80 wrote:
LunarisIsDead wrote:

I understand where you're coming from, but the fact of the matter is, this isn't censorship.


At the core of what censorship means, it is. Any moral values you may have are indifferent. If you block anyone from speaking because you don't agree with what they're saying, it is censorship. Just like for example, Charlie Hebdo should've thought twice about portraying Mohamed in a comic when he most likely knew that muslims dislike figure representations of Mohamed? Of course not. In a free society you need to have the possibility to say whatever you want because, not only you want a society where people can speak stupid things, but the population has the will to pay no attention to it. That's what desirable. Free speech and an educated population.


https://xkcd.com/1357/


Yes, freedom of speech doesn't mean you're free from consequences. That's basic common sense.
The later panels are broad generalizations. A stand up comedian may have the show cancelled because 100 people gathered at the venue to criticize the performance. A minority is "showing the door" to the comedian, yet the majority doesn't care about the performance and accepts that it's just comedy. Is it cancelling the show an exercise in freedom of speech or in enforcing censorship?
My point is simple: let everyone speak, and naturally, toxic extreme ideologies would be ignored. But not censored.
But yeah i'm going to stop now, because i'm new on the site and i don't want to create bad vibes.
Cheers! :)
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Curious_dead
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Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:52 am 
 

No, that's just... completely, entirely, 100% wrong. Bad ideas, horrible ideologies don't magically disappear when people have 100% unrestricted, consequence-free free speech. It's the opposite. Social media have been mostly using a "laissez-faire" approach to extremism on their platforms, and it FUCKING FLOURISHED AND GREW. Now they cut some of the bad elements, the bad elements moved to places that don't matter: Gab and other shit whose name I don't even remember. Idiotic bigots like Milo are down to hundreds of followers, maybe a few thousands including bots. Their ideas, the bile they spew is getting much less exposure. And their free speech has not been harmed. They can STILL shit from their mouth as much as they want. There are just less people listening to it. And the world is a better place for it.

In the present situation, Inquisition is not censored. Inquisition don't have a right to be reviewed. They don't have a right to be included in annual lists. They can still release albums, they're still touring, people still buy their merch.

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thrashinbatman
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:31 pm
Posts: 1534
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:11 pm 
 

Curious_dead wrote:
No, that's just... completely, entirely, 100% wrong. Bad ideas, horrible ideologies don't magically disappear when people have 100% unrestricted, consequence-free free speech. It's the opposite. Social media have been mostly using a "laissez-faire" approach to extremism on their platforms, and it FUCKING FLOURISHED AND GREW. Now they cut some of the bad elements, the bad elements moved to places that don't matter: Gab and other shit whose name I don't even remember. Idiotic bigots like Milo are down to hundreds of followers, maybe a few thousands including bots. Their ideas, the bile they spew is getting much less exposure. And their free speech has not been harmed. They can STILL shit from their mouth as much as they want. There are just less people listening to it. And the world is a better place for it.

In the present situation, Inquisition is not censored. Inquisition don't have a right to be reviewed. They don't have a right to be included in annual lists. They can still release albums, they're still touring, people still buy their merch.

when Alex Jones was on the upswing and getting attention on social media, people made this exact argument that more exposure would prove his ideas absurd and he'd wither away from the sunlight his ideas got. instead, he gained a lot of popularity and his reach peaked, because it turns out people are much more easily influenced by fearful and hateful rhetoric than reasoned debunkings. he only began to slip away after he was banned from most platforms. allowing hateful ideas room to propagate and be discussed does not make them less popular; forcefully denying them and disallowing them mainstream space to gain acceptance does. again; this is NOT censorship because you are not being disallowed from having these ideas, or even disseminating them and spreading them. it is simply reminding those who propagate these views that they are an extremist minority and their views will not be tolerated by the majority.

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Ex El Ex El Ex
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Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:53 pm
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Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:29 pm 
 

Honestly I'm thinking that this whole "telling Nazis to fuck off is censorship" position should be considered trolling.

"I know Nazis are bad, but I'm worried that deplatforming them to prevent them from spreading their harmful, inherently violent garbage will slide us into Orwellian totalitarianism."

Anyone who says this is either a naive, useful idiot or a bad actor and you can't convince me otherwise. It's just tiring to argue against this stuff, it is factually wrong and goes nowhere every single time. Nevermind the fact that it's almost always randos with incredibly low post counts coming out of nowhere to argue this shit, as if that isn't suspicious in the least.
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Curious_dead
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:43 pm 
 

Yeah, the whole Alex Jones is just an example that it takes much more time and energy to counter lies than it is to lie. Some are experts on it, the "gish gallop" I think it's called; basically throwing a lot of lies at once, so that the person you address or attack needs to take multiple statements individually to debunk them; and there is the psychological phenomenon that it's harder to convince someone they've been lied to than to lie to them. Thus, the whole "let's engage meaninguflly and their ideas will disappear" will never happen, it cannot happen because of that inherent imbalance. And as we've seen in the last few years, it's not because a statement is obviously a lie that people realize it. Sometimes, bigger lies are even harder to disprove.

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Ex El Ex El Ex
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Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:53 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:46 pm 
 

Yes, and never mind sunk cost fallacies and the like. People often don't even want to face the fact they've been lied to, because for some fucking reason it is easier to dig your heels in and commit to the bit than accept that you're a flawed human who doesn't know everything.
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What do Catholics and metalheads have in common?
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LordOfTheGallows
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:59 pm 
 

At this point, arguing with these people is almost pointless. Speaking from my own experience only, they're very entrenched in these views and nothing you say will change their minds, and vice versa. The only thing to do is report, block and move on. It's not worth the headache dealing with their shit. Deplatforming is the way to go.

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darkeningday
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Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:14 am 
 

Opus wrote:
acid_bukkake wrote:
Fascists cannot be reasoned with.

It has been done.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Davis



Using this heartwarming video as inspiration, I called my local chapter of the Aryan Brotherhood and arranged an in-person meeting. Though it was challenging discussion, I'm proud to say we reached a point of agreement: I agreed to get a Swastika tattooed onto my forehead and they agreed to stop ripping out my fingernails with pliers.

People love to say "you can't compromise with Nazis," but I am living, mostly breathing proof that this sentiment is nonsense and change IS possible. I'd type more but... well... you know.
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Slater922
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Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:24 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:09 pm 
 

I mean, it's not completely impossible to get a fascist to change their way, but for the majority of them, they've dug their hole WAY too deep to be saved. Some of them really can't be reasoned with at all, no matter how many Daryl Davis's you throw at them.
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cweed
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 7:48 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:48 pm 
 

LordOfTheGallows wrote:
At this point, arguing with these people is almost pointless. Speaking from my own experience only, they're very entrenched in these views and nothing you say will change their minds, and vice versa. The only thing to do is report, block and move on. It's not worth the headache dealing with their shit. Deplatforming is the way to go.


It's like bullet chess (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=130287&p=2958175#p2958175); the only way to win is to not play. However, they're free to continue "playing with themselves", so to speak ;)
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JCP524
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:37 pm
Posts: 77
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:47 pm 
 

Metal_On_The_Ascendant wrote:
BastardHead wrote:
Every day I find myself shocked that the position of "White supremacy is bad and is inherently based on violence towards marginalized groups, therefore it is bad to give positive coverage to things associated with such ideologies because it leads, directly and indirectly, to financial support for people and organizations who inflict said violence towards marginalized people" would be controversial or worth snarky dismissals, but that's the metal scene for ya I guess.


:wintertime depression intensifies:

Good on AMG btw.


Metal attracts awkward weirdos for whatever reason, so of course your going to get an disproportionate representation of the dregs of society.

Interesting that hip-hop, folk, jazz, blues and other genres don't have a large population of losers.

This would be an interesting discussion as to why this is the case.

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Aldrahn333
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 7:28 pm
Posts: 477
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:12 am 
 

JCP524 wrote:
Metal_On_The_Ascendant wrote:
BastardHead wrote:
Every day I find myself shocked that the position of "White supremacy is bad and is inherently based on violence towards marginalized groups, therefore it is bad to give positive coverage to things associated with such ideologies because it leads, directly and indirectly, to financial support for people and organizations who inflict said violence towards marginalized people" would be controversial or worth snarky dismissals, but that's the metal scene for ya I guess.


:wintertime depression intensifies:

Good on AMG btw.


Metal attracts awkward weirdos for whatever reason, so of course your going to get an disproportionate representation of the dregs of society.

Interesting that hip-hop, folk, jazz, blues and other genres don't have a large population of losers.

This would be an interesting discussion as to why this is the case.


I'm curious to know your measurement system of winning and losing process.

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cweed
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 7:48 pm
Posts: 541
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:25 pm 
 

Lol exactly; I'd love to read the scholarly articles and academic studies attempting to explain why hip-hop, folk, jazz, blues, and other genres "don't have a large population of losers" compared to metal lolol JCP524 that's such an absurd argument what are you even talking about??
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ZenoMarx
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Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:38 am
Posts: 853
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:51 pm 
 

JCP524 wrote:
Interesting that hip-hop, folk, jazz, blues and other genres don't have a large population of losers.
Pick an early year. Assign your arbitrary metrics to it. I don't know what you're talking about, but I bet you'd find it there as well. "the dregs" were pushing music, and thus culture, along. They were outside, and then it moved inside. The outside always attracts, or is already that situation for, "the dregs." Drugs. Dysfunction. Catharsis. You name it, they all had/have it.

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Thy Shrine
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:37 pm
Posts: 1051
Location: Golgotha
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:08 pm 
 

ZenoMarx wrote:
JCP524 wrote:
Interesting that hip-hop, folk, jazz, blues and other genres don't have a large population of losers.
Pick an early year. Assign your arbitrary metrics to it. I don't know what you're talking about, but I bet you'd find it there as well. "the dregs" were pushing music, and thus culture, along. They were outside, and then it moved inside. The outside always attracts, or is already that situation for, "the dregs." Drugs. Dysfunction. Catharsis. You name it, they all had/have it.



I've seen that person spewing similar dogshit and I just kinda wanna know why theyre so insecure about liking metal, I mean I really don't get it, it's vaguely amusing but it's mostly just stupid and sad

I'll be honest those are the people that are the true posers
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KaiKasparek
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Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:06 pm
Posts: 957
Location: Suomi Finland Bukkake
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:16 pm 
 

Hip-hop 1000% has a large population of losers. Folk, jazz and blues don't have a large population of anything these days.
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Thy Shrine
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:37 pm
Posts: 1051
Location: Golgotha
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:20 pm 
 

Yeah I don't really believe nazis do anything with "intelligent political discourse" that's the trap they want you to fall into and anyone who engages is a God damn moron quite frankly.

Instead you have to psychologically disarm them not with rhetoric but really exploring why they're like that imo they're like that for the same reason people drink or do drugs, they have nothing, they've probably been beaten down emotionally constantly and they've grown up and been bred to hate everyone else because they have been constantly been made to feel worthless

They're not worthless people they just have worthless beliefs because it's a mental crutch and yeah guess what you have to throw that worthlessness back into their pathetic fucking faces and unfortunately you have to show them that you're the same

I'm an alcoholic I'm the same as a fascist, the only difference is I chose alcohol to feel power instead of bigotry

Scorning people and categorizing them as "other" is easy, understanding we're all just the same is the hard part lol
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Thy Shrine
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:37 pm
Posts: 1051
Location: Golgotha
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:29 pm 
 

Side note I just read someone say that you should engage with them and explain how their views are wrong to them uhhh HELLO that's what they fucking want, they want to be told they're wrong because psychologically that strengthen the illusion that they're right and they can go on feeling victimized and it's just a cycle that will never change I don't know how that isn't just completely obvious

Edit: And I don't really give two shits about people going around punching nazis or assaulting them it's none of my business but when's the last time assaulting people did anything besides force them to grow a victim complex in their head and use that to feed inherently self destructive behavior and ideology
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So what? You're just gonna listen to this garbage metal noise, and grow your hair long, and not get laid?


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deadtome
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2023 10:48 am
Posts: 575
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2023 1:36 pm 
 

Holy shit! And sorry to bring this thread back up but got damn my head is spinning from this thread.......I was only looking for threads on AMG and I guess I'll go back to doing that now, but wow, I'll never get that 45 minutes of my life back.

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