Encyclopaedia Metallum: The Metal Archives

Message board

* FAQ    * Register   * Login 



Reply to topic
Author Message Previous topic | Next topic
LithoJazzoSphere
Veteran

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:11 pm
Posts: 3287
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:11 pm 
 

Twisted_Psychology wrote:
LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
It's also becoming the golden age of collaborations, with Converge/Chelsea Wolfe, Thou/Emma Ruth Rundle, Cult of Luna/Julie Christmas, Neurosis/Jarboe, even Stephen Brodsky/Marissa Nadler, though it isn't metal. Contrasting tonal shades have always fascinated me (probably part of why I've always been into melodeath), and the sludgy band juxtaposed with more ethereal vocal pairing seems to have become fertile ground lately, though I don't know if it's a bubble that will last.


Pretty much every single one of these collaborations is better than what those bands normally do imo, especially Converge and Thou. Bands pursuing that sound like Frayle, Mammoth Weed Wizard Bastard, and Messa are also some of the best going right now. I'm all for the yelly boi sludgecore + spooky girl combo, I like to call Bjork metal.


I never really cared for Converge before, so I agree on that one. Although it makes me want to reevaluate their older releases for sure now that I have a better grasp on them as a band (I went down a Kurt Ballou rabbit hole on YouTube fairly recently and musically he seems like a pretty interesting guy). I can't agree on Cult of Luna, at least at this point, I prefer several of their other albums, but I'm also not really into Julie Christmas. I'm not familiar enough with the other Neurosis and Thou albums to say.

Bjork is an odd reference to make. These collaborations aren't really electronic, so it's not that. And she has such a range of vocal expression that is so singular to her that I'm not sure I see the comparison. What is about her that you have in mind?

Top
 Profile  
Gravetemplar
Veteran

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
Posts: 3625
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:48 pm 
 

No way the Jarboe/Neurosis album is their best. Actually their worst along with Honor Found in Decay. Jarboe did so much better stuff with Swans too.

Top
 Profile  
Ludorff
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 10:38 pm
Posts: 94
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:48 pm 
 

Unpopular opinion : Korn's Follow The Leader is a great album. A really important one. And a masterpiece in sound production and mixing. That thing sounds so good. It aged really well. (Their first album is equally important and even more influential).
Nu Metal is not held in high regards here, and is not even part of the database. Which I completely understand, one has to draw a line somewhere to maintain the Website manageable and focused.
I don't even like the genre. I only like 90s Korn... But in the end I think they do have metal in their music, although not very riff centered, and yes everything is great about those albums. Even John Davis' voice. Sometimes imitated (A. Fridén ?), but he got his unique style, as does the band as a whole.

Or it may be a little nostalgia from my teens.. Not listening to them very often after all.

Top
 Profile  
Chaosmonger
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:59 pm
Posts: 1271
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:48 pm 
 

relatively weaker tracks on Heaven and Hell: "Wishing Well" and "Walk Away". On Mob Rules, it's the last three.

Top
 Profile  
DoomMetalAlchemist
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:10 am
Posts: 2274
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:56 pm 
 

Chaosmonger wrote:
relatively weaker tracks [...] On Mob Rules, it's the last three.


Good fucking god, really???? Slipping Away I can understand. but fucking Falling Off the Edge of the World????????? HOW??????? Over and Over rules too.

Top
 Profile  
Twisted_Psychology
Metal freak

Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 8:22 pm
Posts: 5796
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:35 pm 
 

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
Twisted_Psychology wrote:
LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
Bjork is an odd reference to make. These collaborations aren't really electronic, so it's not that. And she has such a range of vocal expression that is so singular to her that I'm not sure I see the comparison. What is about her that you have in mind?


It’s more of a vocals thing than an electronics thing, just how a lot of those singers tend to have a restrained delivery more in line with Trip hop. “Portishead Metal” doesn’t quite have the same ring to it.
_________________
Christopher Steve (Doom Folk/Americana): http://christophersteve.bandcamp.com/
Lavaborne (Power Doom): https://lavaborne.bandcamp.com
Spirit Division (Stoner Doom): http://spiritdivision.bandcamp.com

Top
 Profile  
draconiondevil
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:21 pm
Posts: 391
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:40 pm 
 

DoomMetalAlchemist wrote:
On the latest Heaven and Hell / Mob Rules discussion....

I've always thought Turn Up the Night is a great opener, but I can see why others might think it's not up to par. For me what elevates it are all the intermittent guitar leads Iommi does throughout. Without those my opinion on the song would probably be lower. Do agree the song isn't as good as Neon Knights, but that's not a slight. Neon Knights will always have a special place in my heart, as the Live Evil version was the very first vocal-Dio-Sabbath song I ever heard (E5150 is the first track on the album so I heard that one first), and not only that, but I had never heard or even heard OF the singer Ronnie James Dio at that point. Live Evil was my second ever Sabbath album (after Paranoid), before the 97 reunion and I didn't have Internet access yet so I wasn't very knowledgable on the band at all, never even knew they had any other singers than Ozzy. Neon Knights came on, I was like, "Hey this isn't Ozzy, who is that? Well it's pretty fucking cool anyway!" :lol: I am so grateful I happened to pick up that album before the 97 reunion as I think it helped me avoid all the "No Ozzy, no Sabbath" brainwashing that ensued.

I'm digging the repping of Country Girl. For a long time I've thought that was an extremely underrated song.... That main riff is classic Iommi. Voodoo is also a great song. One of the catchiest riffs Iommi ever wrote.

The weakest Dio-Sabbath song.... I'd probably say Slipping Away, but Walk Away would probably be 2nd.... Don't think I can nominate anything from Dehumanizer for this category. I used to think Buried Alive wasn't great but over the last few years revisiting it has made me appreciate it a lot more. Of course this "weakest Dio-Sabbath song" is leaving out The Devil You Know which is by a country mile the worst Dio-Sabbath album if you consider it a Sabbath album, which I do..... If we include this album, Rock and Roll Angel and Turn of the Screw stop the album dead for me.

Which is better between Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules? I think my preference is slightly in Mob Rules but it's essentially a toss-up. Both all time classics. Kind of disheartening how Mob Rules is often considered significantly weaker than Heaven and Hell, tbh.

EDIT: just thought of a Dehumanizer nomination for worst Dio-Sabbath song: Time Machine. Chorus is a bit too poppy and they did the heavy chugging thing much better elsewhere on the album, such as TV Crimes.


Dude I am 100% with you on Turn Up the Night. That song absolutely rules and is one of my favourite cuts from the Dio era. No idea how anyone could think it's "not up to par".

Top
 Profile  
Opus
Veteran

Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:06 am
Posts: 3513
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:39 pm 
 

Mob Rules is much, much better than Heaven and Hell.
_________________
Do the words Heavy Metal mean anything to you other than buttcore, technical progressive assgrind or the like?
true_death wrote:
You could be listening to Edge of Sanity right now, but you're not!

Top
 Profile  
des91
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:51 pm
Posts: 249
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:45 pm 
 

I mean I think it’s pretty clear there’s a drop off on three songs on Heaven and Hell. Those three being Lady Evil, Wishing Well and Walk Away. Hell, I’d even argue Lonely is the Word is a little plodding at moments. But Dio’s singing is so perfect that it carries those songs anyway.

Basically Dio saves that album from being one that I would only hear the four classics on a playlist.

Top
 Profile  
Chaosmonger
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:59 pm
Posts: 1271
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:09 am 
 

I don't think Lady Evil is a drop off. It's not one of the absolute best tracks but it's a damned good straightforward rocker.

Top
 Profile  
LithoJazzoSphere
Veteran

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:11 pm
Posts: 3287
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:24 am 
 

Twisted_Psychology wrote:
LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
Bjork is an odd reference to make. These collaborations aren't really electronic, so it's not that. And she has such a range of vocal expression that is so singular to her that I'm not sure I see the comparison. What is about her that you have in mind?


It’s more of a vocals thing than an electronics thing, just how a lot of those singers tend to have a restrained delivery more in line with Trip hop. “Portishead Metal” doesn’t quite have the same ring to it.


I don't know much Bjork you've listened to, but she's kind of all over the place, and "restrained" only characterizes her some of the time. Something like "Pluto", parts of "It's Oh So Quiet", "Ancestors" (though it's not all her) get pretty unhinged to mention a few. I don't know, maybe it would be "Sade metal", "Dido metal", or something like that, but it's really just its own thing.

Top
 Profile  
Twin_guitar_attack
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:27 am
Posts: 1571
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:33 am 
 

Yeah there's no way I'd ever lump Bjork in with Chelsea Wolfe, Emma Ruth Rundle, Marissa Nadler etal, she stands out as completely her own thing. She's not restrained at all, if anything she'd be closer to Diamanda Galas than those sort of singers.

Speaking of, Marissa Nadler has become one of my favourite artists since I started listening to her in 2020 and would love to hear her do something with a more metal backing. I know she did backing vocals on Portal of Sorrow by Xasthur (another favourite artist) but they're so quiet in the mix they don't even sound like her - I didn't even know she was on the album until I looked it up on here recently. Granted I don't really like bands like CoL, Thou or Converge so haven't heard those collabs and can't speak for whether they're any good.

As for Heaven and Hell I don't think there's any filler at all, I like the more light-hearted tracks mentioned a lot, Dio is great with that style and if anything I'd say the weakest track would be Children of the Sea.

I've never liked Mob Rules close to as much, but Turn up the Night is the best song off the A side, the B side is much better. Sign of the Southern Cross just feels plodding to me, as much as its held up here as one of their best songs.
_________________
https://www.last.fm/user/tetravassafor

Top
 Profile  
Wahn_nhaW
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:34 pm
Posts: 510
Location: Serbia
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:34 am 
 

Man, "Turn Up the Night" is a fantastic opener. And with Dio deciding halfway through his career that he was only going to write plodding-ass songs, every fast song in his discography became twice as important as it had previously been.
_________________
Just call me Wahn.

Top
 Profile  
CrippledLucifer
Metalhead

Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 5:08 am
Posts: 746
Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:15 am 
 

Twisted_Psychology wrote:
Pretty much every single one of these collaborations is better than what those bands normally do imo, especially Converge and Thou. Bands pursuing that sound like Frayle, Mammoth Weed Wizard Bastard, and Messa are also some of the best going right now. I'm all for the yelly boi sludgecore + spooky girl combo, I like to call Bjork metal.

I appreciate this truly unpopular opinion that had me raging at my screen for 5 seconds at the implication that the Neurosis/Jarboe collab was somehow better than Souls at Zero or TSiB.

My contribution to this particular topic is that both Chelsea Wolfe and Emma Ruth Rundle are at their most boring the harder they lean on metal. Never quite heavy enough, almost in a grey middle ground between doom, grunge, gothic rock, etc, that leaves me wishing they'd go all the way down one of these, or dial it back to the more songwriter, folk-inspired stuff, which happens to be my favorite output by both artists. On that note, everything Marissa Nadler has done since July is absolutely fantastic (although I do hope this is not a controversial opinion).
_________________
I_Crash_and_Burn wrote:
This is filth

Top
 Profile  
Twin_guitar_attack
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:27 am
Posts: 1571
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:20 am 
 

CrippledLucifer wrote:
Twisted_Psychology wrote:
Pretty much every single one of these collaborations is better than what those bands normally do imo, especially Converge and Thou. Bands pursuing that sound like Frayle, Mammoth Weed Wizard Bastard, and Messa are also some of the best going right now. I'm all for the yelly boi sludgecore + spooky girl combo, I like to call Bjork metal.

I appreciate this truly unpopular opinion that had me raging at my screen for 5 seconds at the implication that the Neurosis/Jarboe collab was somehow better than Souls at Zero or TSiB.

My contribution to this particular topic is that both Chelsea Wolfe and Emma Ruth Rundle are at their most boring the harder they lean on metal. Never quite heavy enough, almost in a grey middle ground between doom, grunge, gothic rock, etc, that leaves me wishing they'd go all the way down one of these, or dial it back to the more songwriter, folk-inspired stuff, which happens to be my favorite output by both artists. On that note, everything Marissa Nadler has done since July is absolutely fantastic (although I do hope this is not a controversial opinion).


Only in that you neglect everything BEFORE July, that and the first two are probably my favourites.
_________________
https://www.last.fm/user/tetravassafor

Top
 Profile  
CrippledLucifer
Metalhead

Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 5:08 am
Posts: 746
Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:22 am 
 

Twin_guitar_attack wrote:
Only in that you neglect everything BEFORE July

This is probably just laziness on my part. I first got into her music when July was released, and everything since has been so awesome I haven't felt the need to visit her older catalog. But I'm taking note of this!
_________________
I_Crash_and_Burn wrote:
This is filth

Top
 Profile  
Cosmic_Equilibrium
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:03 pm
Posts: 660
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:44 am 
 

DoomMetalAlchemist wrote:
Chaosmonger wrote:
relatively weaker tracks [...] On Mob Rules, it's the last three.


Good fucking god, really???? Slipping Away I can understand. but fucking Falling Off the Edge of the World????????? HOW??????? Over and Over rules too.


I agree. I just don't get how one can classify FOTEOTW as anything but genius. In the top 5 Dio era Sabbath songs for sure.

Top
 Profile  
Zdan
Veteran

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:05 pm
Posts: 2761
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:47 am 
 

Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
DoomMetalAlchemist wrote:
Chaosmonger wrote:
relatively weaker tracks [...] On Mob Rules, it's the last three.


Good fucking god, really???? Slipping Away I can understand. but fucking Falling Off the Edge of the World????????? HOW??????? Over and Over rules too.


I agree. I just don't get how one can classify FOTEOTW as anything but genius. In the top 5 Dio era Sabbath songs for sure.


That one is absolutely excellent - one of the best Sabbath songs and the best one on Mob Rules next to the titanic epic The Sign of the Southern Cross. Heaven and Hell can respond to that one with the title track though.

Top
 Profile  
GratefulDeadInside
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:22 am
Posts: 130
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:20 am 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
GratefulDeadInside wrote:
The less "trve kvlt" a black metal album is the better it is.


It's okay not to like black metal, but come on...

Image

come on...

Image

come on...

Image

The world wouldn't be as beautiful as it is without trve black metal. I rest my case.


What's the album on the third pic? Looks cool enough for me to check it out.
_________________
Concerts I've Been To

Top
 Profile  
Benedict Donald
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:36 am
Posts: 979
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:24 am 
 

des91 wrote:
...Wishing Well...


One of the all-time best songs featuring RJD. Definitely an unpopular opinion, but I'm stickin' to it!

Top
 Profile  
LithoJazzoSphere
Veteran

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:11 pm
Posts: 3287
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:24 am 
 

Twin_guitar_attack wrote:
Yeah there's no way I'd ever lump Bjork in with Chelsea Wolfe, Emma Ruth Rundle, Marissa Nadler etal, she stands out as completely her own thing. She's not restrained at all, if anything she'd be closer to Diamanda Galas than those sort of singers.

Speaking of, Marissa Nadler has become one of my favourite artists since I started listening to her in 2020 and would love to hear her do something with a more metal backing. I know she did backing vocals on Portal of Sorrow by Xasthur (another favourite artist) but they're so quiet in the mix they don't even sound like her - I didn't even know she was on the album until I looked it up on here recently. Granted I don't really like bands like CoL, Thou or Converge so haven't heard those collabs and can't speak for whether they're any good.


Eh, Galas is a bit far. She's done some of the most extreme and bonkers music and performance art I've ever heard. I wouldn't even put Bjork nearly as far as say, Lingua Ignota. Bjork is still relatively accessible and melodic much of the time, just artsy and experimental, with a lot of range. Even Chelsea does more intense and eerie things vocally than I can ever recall Emma or Marissa doing. They're fun to group together and analyze for various purposes, but they're all fairly distinct artists.

I think these two single track collaborations are the closest other things Marissa has done to metal, dunno if you've heard them. Her work with Brodsky makes me hope they'll do a heavier Droneflower or something else at some point.

Spoiler: show



Or the handful of covers she's done from Sabbath and Metallica (plus assorted others like Danzig, King Crimson, Guns 'n' Roses, The Cure and such).

Spoiler: show



CrippledLucifer wrote:
My contribution to this particular topic is that both Chelsea Wolfe and Emma Ruth Rundle are at their most boring the harder they lean on metal. Never quite heavy enough, almost in a grey middle ground between doom, grunge, gothic rock, etc, that leaves me wishing they'd go all the way down one of these, or dial it back to the more songwriter, folk-inspired stuff, which happens to be my favorite output by both artists.


Eh, I like it all for different reasons. Pain Is Beauty is my favorite Wolfe album, and Some Heavy Ocean from ERR, neither of which have any metal, so I sort of agree, but I do really enjoy them lending their talents to heavier material as well. It's a whole different vibe from most metal bands who either have a vocalist who can sing those sorts of vocals but doesn't normally, or some random guest vocalist who otherwise never dabbles in anything darker.

Top
 Profile  
GratefulDeadInside
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:22 am
Posts: 130
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:42 pm 
 

Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
* Rust in Peace is chronically overrated (see my review of it). Starts and ends brilliantly, middle of the record dead in the water, no hooks or interesting riffs. Production is pretty average too, the original mix has NO BASS to speak of.

The bass part is true but I wouldn't call every after and before Holy Wars and Polaris to be "dead in the water".

Take No Prisoners is probably the most brutal song on the record, Poison Was The Cure is really cool and punk-influenced, Five Magics is honestly one of their best songs.

Lucretia and Dawn Patrol are kinda boring filler tho.
_________________
Concerts I've Been To

Top
 Profile  
Gravetemplar
Veteran

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
Posts: 3625
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:24 pm 
 

Megadeth are overrated, not just Rust in Peace. They are super boring and Dave is one of the worst singers I've ever heard.

Top
 Profile  
Gravetemplar
Veteran

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
Posts: 3625
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:25 pm 
 

GratefulDeadInside wrote:
HeavenDuff wrote:
GratefulDeadInside wrote:
The less "trve kvlt" a black metal album is the better it is.
Image


What's the album on the third pic? Looks cool enough for me to check it out.

https://paysagedhiver.bandcamp.com/album/paysage-dhiver

Top
 Profile  
Yuli Ban
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:07 am
Posts: 226
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:36 pm 
 

Ludorff wrote:
Nu Metal is not held in high regards here, and is not even part of the database.

Actually, it is. Metal bands that crossed over into nü metal allow the genre tag to infest the archives (no pun intended)

Like Machine Head. And Skinlab.

On that note, I still have no idea why Slipknot is not on the archives. They've had at least one full-fledged groove metal album by now. Is it because they'd be review bombed to Heck and back?

I share the same sentiments that others have. Tool, System of a Down, Slipknot, TAD (whom I remember was on the archives before but might be Mandela Effected)— I really do feel like if Rush and the Melvins are on here, so should this lot.

Top
 Profile  
Zdan
Veteran

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:05 pm
Posts: 2761
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:47 pm 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
Megadeth are overrated, not just Rust in Peace. They are super boring and Dave is one of the worst singers I've ever heard.


I disagree completely. After a certain record (I would say Youthanasia) Megadeth do lose the plot and Dave is not a good singer by any stretch but musically early Megadeth was the bomb. They could do it all - whether you want speedy banger, mid-tempo crushers or just some amazing guitar playing (the solos!).

Top
 Profile  
pressingtoplead13
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:05 pm
Posts: 603
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:59 pm 
 

Hmmm, lets ruffle some feathers. The most influential metal album is Hell Awaits, thrash at its core but really laid the foundation for where Death Metal would arise.

Top
 Profile  
des91
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:51 pm
Posts: 249
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:07 pm 
 

pressingtoplead13 wrote:
Hmmm, lets ruffle some feathers. The most influential metal album is Hell Awaits, thrash at its core but really laid the foundation for where Death Metal would arise.


Lol you are serious about that one ruffling feathers? Basically everyone knows this as a fact.

Edit: Oh you said all time? That’s a bit harder to confirm but it’s probably top 10 most influential.

Top
 Profile  
Spiner202
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 3:32 pm
Posts: 2465
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:15 pm 
 

The most influential album is probably either Welcome to Hell or Black Metal. In fact, I'd go as far to say that Venom is the second most influential metal band after Sabbath. I do think someone else would have gone down the same path if Venom didn't, but their impact can't really be overstated.
_________________
Check out my review webzine: Skull Fracturing Metal

Top
 Profile  
Zdan
Veteran

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:05 pm
Posts: 2761
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:20 pm 
 

I would throw Motorhead and (gasp!) Discharge into the ring of highly influential bands. They laid down the foundation for speedy, extreme music - Motorhead by influencing said Venom and countless other acts and Discharge being a direct and indirect influence on thrash and even death metal (and even grindcore via Napalm Death).

Top
 Profile  
Lagartija
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:27 am
Posts: 1561
Location: Catalunya
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:25 pm 
 

Well it's the stepping stones on the path to evolution, isn't it? Sabbath and Purple, Maiden and Judas, Motörhead, Venom, Hellhammer/CF, Metallica, Slayer, Mayhem, etc etc.
You can't really say one is more influential than the other, they all took metal in different directions and spawned new offshoots, so they're all equally influential imo.
_________________
Maggot penetration wrote:
Nothing wrong with not liking shit music

TheLoneForest wrote:
Boomerism off the mf charts

Top
 Profile  
pressingtoplead13
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:05 pm
Posts: 603
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:01 pm 
 

des91 wrote:

Lol you are serious about that one ruffling feathers? Basically everyone knows this as a fact.

Edit: Oh you said all time? That’s a bit harder to confirm but it’s probably top 10 most influential.


Yup, i'd imagine most people have it top ten but I put it at number 1. To me that is the album that has the most broad reaching commercial appeal to reach a large audience that distinctively shifts what was before, to what was to become after. I totally agree that without certain albums before and after we still wouldnt have what we have today without all those stepping stones ex. Paranoid by Sabbath, Scum by Napalm Death. To me that album is the shift in music, everything before it pales in comparison to what that album created and thus inspired thereafter. Probably not a popular opinion by most lol, in fact alot of people would probably argue that its not even Slayer's most influential album but IMO they'd be wrong.

Top
 Profile  
Zdan
Veteran

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:05 pm
Posts: 2761
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:27 pm 
 

Lagartija wrote:
Well it's the stepping stones on the path to evolution, isn't it? Sabbath and Purple, Maiden and Judas, Motörhead, Venom, Hellhammer/CF, Metallica, Slayer, Mayhem, etc etc.
You can't really say one is more influential than the other, they all took metal in different directions and spawned new offshoots, so they're all equally influential imo.


True but Motorhead seems to have a very far reaching influence in terms of both punk and metal.

Discharge to me would probably THE most influential band if we are talking about extreme music. Their early sound influenced a whole spectrum of music from thrash to hardcore punk, crust and even death metal (the first Entombed record and the d-beats there!) and maybe even some early black metal.

Top
 Profile  
entzauberung
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:49 am
Posts: 23
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:38 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
Twisted_Psychology wrote:
LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
It's also becoming the golden age of collaborations, with Converge/Chelsea Wolfe, Thou/Emma Ruth Rundle, Cult of Luna/Julie Christmas, Neurosis/Jarboe, even Stephen Brodsky/Marissa Nadler, though it isn't metal. Contrasting tonal shades have always fascinated me (probably part of why I've always been into melodeath), and the sludgy band juxtaposed with more ethereal vocal pairing seems to have become fertile ground lately, though I don't know if it's a bubble that will last.


Pretty much every single one of these collaborations is better than what those bands normally do imo, especially Converge and Thou. Bands pursuing that sound like Frayle, Mammoth Weed Wizard Bastard, and Messa are also some of the best going right now. I'm all for the yelly boi sludgecore + spooky girl combo, I like to call Bjork metal.


Hold on. Cult of Luna and Neurosis are pillars of post-metal and sludge metal. These collaboration records are all good, of course, but you really think that CoL's self-titled, Salvation, Somewhere Along the Highway, Souls at Zero, Enemy of the Sun, Though Silver in Blood or Times of Grace are weaker then these footnotes collaborations? How?

I'm also not a big Converge fan myself, but their album Jane Doe is a pivotal record for hardcore punk/metalcore of the 2000's.

These aren't just stellar records, they are also the foundations of their respective genres. In comparison, these collaborations are footnotes.


Won't speak for the other examples, but I don't think it's correct to label Mariner a "footnote". The band perceives it as a regular album, and I've seen many CoL fans hold it as their favourite or one of them. Definitely a higher profile release than any of the pre-break (Salvation) ones.

Top
 Profile  
Gravetemplar
Veteran

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
Posts: 3625
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:48 pm 
 

Mariner is probably the "biggest" one of those of collaborative albums, not exactly sure why. Probably because it attracted some people who don't usually listen to Cult of Luna and it was the "hipster metal album of the year" all websites were loving by the time it got out. Kind of what happened with Deafheaven with Sunbather or with Bell Witch with their long album. Mariner is really far from being their best though, mostly because of that 13 minutes filler track.

Most people see the Neurosis/Jarboe one as a failed experiment. The Converge one was ok I guess but it will never reach the levels of traction Jane Doe has and the reception was lukewarm by long time fans of the band. Again, I feel like these albums get a lot of attention because they attract both fanbases and collaborations are kind of exotic and easy to sell in terms of marketing. Sure, there's a lot of overlap between Converge fans and Chelsea fans but still.

Top
 Profile  
entzauberung
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:49 am
Posts: 23
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:56 pm 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
Mariner is probably the "biggest" one of those of collaborative albums, not exactly sure why. Probably because it attracted some people who don't usually listen to Cult of Luna and it was the "hipster metal album of the year" all websites were loving by the time it got out. Kind of what happened with Deafheaven with Sunbather or with Bell Witch with their long album. Mariner is really far from being their best though, mostly because of that 13 minutes filler track.


It's not my favourite either, but I could easily see it being your favourite if you enjoy Cult of Luna at their most atmospheric, or just like that space rock vibe.

Gravetemplar wrote:
Most people see the Neurosis/Jarboe one as a failed experiment. The Converge one was ok I guess but it will never reach the levels of traction Jane Doe has and the reception was lukewarm by long time fans of the band. Again, I feel like these albums get a lot of attention because they attract both fanbases and collaborations are kind of exotic and easy to sell in terms of marketing. Sure, there's a lot of overlap between Converge fans and Chelsea fans but still.


I like the Jarboe album, even if that is more obviously a side thing. Again, if you're not that into sludge but enjoy the more moody Neurosis it wouldn't be weird to have it as your top album.

Top
 Profile  
LithoJazzoSphere
Veteran

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:11 pm
Posts: 3287
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 7:36 pm 
 

GratefulDeadInside wrote:
Lucretia...kinda boring filler tho.


No way. Those opening riffs are really unique (not much else out that flirts with dorian mode like it does), more cool ones throughout, and it has another classic Marty solo. 90% of thrash bands would kill to have a song like it. They just happen to have several even stronger on the same album, so it gets overlooked all the time.

Top
 Profile  
Oxenkiller
Veteran

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:42 am
Posts: 3211
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:46 pm 
 

Zdan wrote:
I would throw Motorhead and (gasp!) Discharge into the ring of highly influential bands. They laid down the foundation for speedy, extreme music - Motorhead by influencing said Venom and countless other acts and Discharge being a direct and indirect influence on thrash and even death metal (and even grindcore via Napalm Death).


There is certainly a core group of bands who had a bigger and more far reaching influence on metal than others. Motorhead clearly belong up there, right there with Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Judas Priest and Venom. Metallica and Exodus (despite the latter's relative lack of long-term success) would probably round out the top seven.

Top
 Profile  
Zdan
Veteran

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:05 pm
Posts: 2761
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:49 pm 
 

Oxenkiller wrote:
Zdan wrote:
I would throw Motorhead and (gasp!) Discharge into the ring of highly influential bands. They laid down the foundation for speedy, extreme music - Motorhead by influencing said Venom and countless other acts and Discharge being a direct and indirect influence on thrash and even death metal (and even grindcore via Napalm Death).


There is certainly a core group of bands who had a bigger and more far reaching influence on metal than others. Motorhead clearly belong up there, right there with Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Judas Priest and Venom. Metallica and Exodus (despite the latter's relative lack of long-term success) would probably round out the top seven.


I generally agree with that list but I would substitute Exodus with Slayer as I find them to be more influential overall.

Top
 Profile  
LithoJazzoSphere
Veteran

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:11 pm
Posts: 3287
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:09 am 
 

Oxenkiller wrote:
Zdan wrote:
I would throw Motorhead and (gasp!) Discharge into the ring of highly influential bands. They laid down the foundation for speedy, extreme music - Motorhead by influencing said Venom and countless other acts and Discharge being a direct and indirect influence on thrash and even death metal (and even grindcore via Napalm Death).


There is certainly a core group of bands who had a bigger and more far reaching influence on metal than others. Motorhead clearly belong up there, right there with Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Judas Priest and Venom. Metallica and Exodus (despite the latter's relative lack of long-term success) would probably round out the top seven.


You have Exodus there, but not Maiden? No Slayer? No Celtic Frost? No Death? No Mercyful Fate? No Dio? No Ozzy? Exodus isn't even in the big four of their own subgenre.

Top
 Profile  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic Go to page Previous  1 ... 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40 ... 68  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: acid_bukkake, Cranking_the_Sirens, DarthVenom, firelord_, Google [Bot], Kalaratri, Luvers, LycanthropeMoon, MessiahsMojo, TheLoneForest, Tiam Kara and 25 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

  Print view
Jump to:  

Back to the Encyclopaedia Metallum


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group