Pretty much every single one of these collaborations is better than what those bands normally do imo, especially Converge and Thou. Bands pursuing that sound like Frayle, Mammoth Weed Wizard Bastard, and Messa are also some of the best going right now. I'm all for the yelly boi sludgecore + spooky girl combo, I like to call Bjork metal.

relatively weaker tracks [...] On Mob Rules, it's the last three.

On the latest Heaven and Hell / Mob Rules discussion....

I've always thought Turn Up the Night is a great opener, but I can see why others might think it's not up to par. For me what elevates it are all the intermittent guitar leads Iommi does throughout. Without those my opinion on the song would probably be lower. Do agree the song isn't as good as Neon Knights, but that's not a slight. Neon Knights will always have a special place in my heart, as the Live Evil version was the very first vocal-Dio-Sabbath song I ever heard (E5150 is the first track on the album so I heard that one first), and not only that, but I had never heard or even heard OF the singer Ronnie James Dio at that point. Live Evil was my second ever Sabbath album (after Paranoid), before the 97 reunion and I didn't have Internet access yet so I wasn't very knowledgable on the band at all, never even knew they had any other singers than Ozzy. Neon Knights came on, I was like, "Hey this isn't Ozzy, who is that? Well it's pretty fucking cool anyway!" I am so grateful I happened to pick up that album before the 97 reunion as I think it helped me avoid all the "No Ozzy, no Sabbath" brainwashing that ensued.

I'm digging the repping of Country Girl. For a long time I've thought that was an extremely underrated song.... That main riff is classic Iommi. Voodoo is also a great song. One of the catchiest riffs Iommi ever wrote.

The weakest Dio-Sabbath song.... I'd probably say Slipping Away, but Walk Away would probably be 2nd.... Don't think I can nominate anything from Dehumanizer for this category. I used to think Buried Alive wasn't great but over the last few years revisiting it has made me appreciate it a lot more. Of course this "weakest Dio-Sabbath song" is leaving out The Devil You Know which is by a country mile the worst Dio-Sabbath album if you consider it a Sabbath album, which I do..... If we include this album, Rock and Roll Angel and Turn of the Screw stop the album dead for me.

Which is better between Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules? I think my preference is slightly in Mob Rules but it's essentially a toss-up. Both all time classics. Kind of disheartening how Mob Rules is often considered significantly weaker than Heaven and Hell, tbh.

EDIT: just thought of a Dehumanizer nomination for worst Dio-Sabbath song: Time Machine. Chorus is a bit too poppy and they did the heavy chugging thing much better elsewhere on the album, such as TV Crimes.

It’s more of a vocals thing than an electronics thing, just how a lot of those singers tend to have a restrained delivery more in line with Trip hop. “Portishead Metal” doesn’t quite have the same ring to it.

Pretty much every single one of these collaborations is better than what those bands normally do imo, especially Converge and Thou. Bands pursuing that sound like Frayle, Mammoth Weed Wizard Bastard, and Messa are also some of the best going right now. I'm all for the yelly boi sludgecore + spooky girl combo, I like to call Bjork metal.

I appreciate this truly unpopular opinion that had me raging at my screen for 5 seconds at the implication that the Neurosis/Jarboe collab was somehow better than Souls at Zero or TSiB.

My contribution to this particular topic is that both Chelsea Wolfe and Emma Ruth Rundle are at their most boring the harder they lean on metal. Never quite heavy enough, almost in a grey middle ground between doom, grunge, gothic rock, etc, that leaves me wishing they'd go all the way down one of these, or dial it back to the more songwriter, folk-inspired stuff, which happens to be my favorite output by both artists. On that note, everything Marissa Nadler has done since July is absolutely fantastic (although I do hope this is not a controversial opinion).

Only in that you neglect everything BEFORE July

Good fucking god, really???? Slipping Away I can understand. but fucking Falling Off the Edge of the World????????? HOW??????? Over and Over rules too.

I agree. I just don't get how one can classify FOTEOTW as anything but genius. In the top 5 Dio era Sabbath songs for sure.

It's okay not to like black metal, but come on...



come on...



come on...



The world wouldn't be as beautiful as it is without trve black metal. I rest my case.

...Wishing Well...

Yeah there's no way I'd ever lump Bjork in with Chelsea Wolfe, Emma Ruth Rundle, Marissa Nadler etal, she stands out as completely her own thing. She's not restrained at all, if anything she'd be closer to Diamanda Galas than those sort of singers.

Speaking of, Marissa Nadler has become one of my favourite artists since I started listening to her in 2020 and would love to hear her do something with a more metal backing. I know she did backing vocals on Portal of Sorrow by Xasthur (another favourite artist) but they're so quiet in the mix they don't even sound like her - I didn't even know she was on the album until I looked it up on here recently. Granted I don't really like bands like CoL, Thou or Converge so haven't heard those collabs and can't speak for whether they're any good.

My contribution to this particular topic is that both Chelsea Wolfe and Emma Ruth Rundle are at their most boring the harder they lean on metal. Never quite heavy enough, almost in a grey middle ground between doom, grunge, gothic rock, etc, that leaves me wishing they'd go all the way down one of these, or dial it back to the more songwriter, folk-inspired stuff, which happens to be my favorite output by both artists.

* Rust in Peace is chronically overrated (see my review of it). Starts and ends brilliantly, middle of the record dead in the water, no hooks or interesting riffs. Production is pretty average too, the original mix has NO BASS to speak of.

What's the album on the third pic? Looks cool enough for me to check it out.

Nu Metal is not held in high regards here, and is not even part of the database.

Megadeth are overrated, not just Rust in Peace. They are super boring and Dave is one of the worst singers I've ever heard.

Hmmm, lets ruffle some feathers. The most influential metal album is Hell Awaits, thrash at its core but really laid the foundation for where Death Metal would arise.

Lol you are serious about that one ruffling feathers? Basically everyone knows this as a fact.

Edit: Oh you said all time? That’s a bit harder to confirm but it’s probably top 10 most influential.

Well it's the stepping stones on the path to evolution, isn't it? Sabbath and Purple, Maiden and Judas, Motörhead, Venom, Hellhammer/CF, Metallica, Slayer, Mayhem, etc etc.
You can't really say one is more influential than the other, they all took metal in different directions and spawned new offshoots, so they're all equally influential imo.

Hold on. Cult of Luna and Neurosis are pillars of post-metal and sludge metal. These collaboration records are all good, of course, but you really think that CoL's self-titled, Salvation, Somewhere Along the Highway, Souls at Zero, Enemy of the Sun, Though Silver in Blood or Times of Grace are weaker then these footnotes collaborations? How?

I'm also not a big Converge fan myself, but their album Jane Doe is a pivotal record for hardcore punk/metalcore of the 2000's.

These aren't just stellar records, they are also the foundations of their respective genres. In comparison, these collaborations are footnotes.

Mariner is probably the "biggest" one of those of collaborative albums, not exactly sure why. Probably because it attracted some people who don't usually listen to Cult of Luna and it was the "hipster metal album of the year" all websites were loving by the time it got out. Kind of what happened with Deafheaven with Sunbather or with Bell Witch with their long album. Mariner is really far from being their best though, mostly because of that 13 minutes filler track.

Most people see the Neurosis/Jarboe one as a failed experiment. The Converge one was ok I guess but it will never reach the levels of traction Jane Doe has and the reception was lukewarm by long time fans of the band. Again, I feel like these albums get a lot of attention because they attract both fanbases and collaborations are kind of exotic and easy to sell in terms of marketing. Sure, there's a lot of overlap between Converge fans and Chelsea fans but still.

Lucretia...kinda boring filler tho.

I would throw Motorhead and (gasp!) Discharge into the ring of highly influential bands. They laid down the foundation for speedy, extreme music - Motorhead by influencing said Venom and countless other acts and Discharge being a direct and indirect influence on thrash and even death metal (and even grindcore via Napalm Death).

There is certainly a core group of bands who had a bigger and more far reaching influence on metal than others. Motorhead clearly belong up there, right there with Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Judas Priest and Venom. Metallica and Exodus (despite the latter's relative lack of long-term success) would probably round out the top seven.

There is certainly a core group of bands who had a bigger and more far reaching influence on metal than others. Motorhead clearly belong up there, right there with Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Judas Priest and Venom. Metallica and Exodus (despite the latter's relative lack of long-term success) would probably round out the top seven.