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DoomMetalAlchemist
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Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:10 am
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2022 4:12 pm 
 

Demon Fang wrote:
That's not how you spell A Tale That Wasn't Right.


I love A Tale That Wasn't Right, I don't get the hate. Probably in my top 5 ballads of all time.

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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 6974
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2022 5:06 pm 
 

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
LilTito wrote:
LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
The mid-late 90s were such a fascinating period in musical history. It's like half of the entire metal landscape decided together to experiment with weird stuff. A lot of it didn't stick, but some did.

I always thought this was the case for early-mid 2000s


Well, it all depends on the band, you can extend it out easily either direction, really. Pyogenesis experiments with all kinds of stuff in the mid-90s. Anathema turns into an alt/prog band around the same time. Sentenced goes gothic. The Gathering goes spacey/artsy in '98. Paradise Lost goes electronic in '99, Theatre of Tragedy in '00. Whatever it is that Trey Azagthoth does in '03. Etc.


I'd claim that the early-mid 90's were a far more interesting period, because many of those bands that started out as a pure death metal acts started to experiment with a lot of unusual stuff, resulting into albums like Gothic, The Astral Sleep, Symphony Masses and so on. By the late 90's, plenty of those bands weren't even metal anymore and it must have been a depressing period if you were a doom/death metal fan (of course you could argue that some bands were well-off playing rock music, but that's certainly not the case for all of them; did anyone care about what Pyogenesis were doing in the late 90's, for instance?).

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MetalVermont
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2021 8:23 pm
Posts: 255
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2022 6:01 pm 
 

simonitro wrote:
"Piece by Piece" is my personal favorite song on Slayer's Reign in Blood album and it's a very common song that people think of when it comes to this album. I don't know... who else thinks that's their personal favorite on the album? The shorter songs are awesome and even with their speed, somehow, they do feel kinda hypnotic.


Great song. Love those short bursts of lethal chaotic speed and aggression.

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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2022 6:20 pm 
 

^^

Well, that's the point of why it's fascinating, because so many of them weren't even playing metal anymore, or it was a milder component of their sound. But the late-80s to mid-90s is when the primary subgenres of metal were solidified through experimentation, so really it's just an endlessly intriguing period regardless.

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Tiam Kara
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:28 am
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2022 10:11 pm 
 

My unpopular opinion is that it’s ridiculous how caring about not listening to music made by fascists and bigots makes me feel like an outsider. I don’t think it’s unreasonable and I don’t understand why my position is met with such intense hostility.

Also, as an aside, there’s too much good music to care about shitty assholes. People seem like not listening to the likes of Mgla and Burzum is such a crime but I’m perfectly happy with my Misthyrming and Weigedood and whatnot. I don’t miss those assholes at all.
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Slater922
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Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:24 pm
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2022 10:22 pm 
 

Tiam Kara wrote:
My unpopular opinion is that it’s ridiculous how caring about not listening to music made by fascists and bigots makes me feel like an outsider. I don’t think it’s unreasonable and I don’t understand why my position is met with such intense hostility.

Definitely, though how widespread this idea is kind of depends on where you're at. In some places like r/BlackMetal, people there generally could care less of the right-leaning artists there, and I saw a RABM post there actually get downvoted and later deleted the other day.
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Tiam Kara
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Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:28 am
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2022 10:32 pm 
 

Slater922 wrote:
Definitely, though how widespread this idea is kind of depends on where you're at. In some places like r/BlackMetal, people there generally could care less of the right-leaning artists there, and I saw a RABM post there actually get downvoted and later deleted the other day.

For sure. RABM is a fantastic subreddit. r/BlackMetal might as well r/TheDonald for metal fans.

But more to your point it’s funny how on more general boards like r/Metal or r/MetalMemes it kind of depends on what “side” of the community sees your post or comment first. Which is one of the things that makes Reddit such a cesspool.
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LongHairIsSoFuckingCool
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Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:22 am
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2022 10:54 pm 
 

Tiam Kara wrote:
For sure. RABM is a fantastic subreddit.

Don't they go on witchhunts though? That's what I heard at least.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 6:46 am 
 

I don't care if people listen to Burzum or whatever, though I don't have an interest in it. But people actually listening to fucking bigot sewage like Grand Belial's Key is legitimately insane to me.
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Zdan
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 8:29 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:
I don't care if people listen to Burzum or whatever, though I don't have an interest in it. But people actually listening to fucking bigot sewage like Grand Belial's Key is legitimately insane to me.


But, but, but....but the riffs man! The riffs!

My take on this is: I do not care. Listen to whatever bullshit you are into.

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Gravetemplar
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 9:22 am 
 

I would be more inclined to believe people listen to music "for the riffs" if the bands actually had great riffs but it's usually just some subpar band with no personality other than being bigots or some awful third rate band from Finland.

My point being, I can get someone saying "well, I like Hate Forest for the riffs" because they have them but if you listen to anything by Peste noire that isn't La sanie, you're definitely just racist.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 12:15 pm 
 

Zdan wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
I don't care if people listen to Burzum or whatever, though I don't have an interest in it. But people actually listening to fucking bigot sewage like Grand Belial's Key is legitimately insane to me.


But, but, but....but the riffs man! The riffs!

My take on this is: I do not care. Listen to whatever bullshit you are into.


I mean I'm not telling anyone what to do or getting emotional about it. It's just absurd to me to listen to stuff that straight up racist and awful. Like nobody would watch a movie that's pro-Nazi and go "man, the acting is so good I just have to see this." People will do what they want and some of it is stuff I find crazy.
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Zdan
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 2:02 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Zdan wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
I don't care if people listen to Burzum or whatever, though I don't have an interest in it. But people actually listening to fucking bigot sewage like Grand Belial's Key is legitimately insane to me.


But, but, but....but the riffs man! The riffs!

My take on this is: I do not care. Listen to whatever bullshit you are into.


I mean I'm not telling anyone what to do or getting emotional about it. It's just absurd to me to listen to stuff that straight up racist and awful. Like nobody would watch a movie that's pro-Nazi and go "man, the acting is so good I just have to see this." People will do what they want and some of it is stuff I find crazy.


Well....I watched "Triumph of the Will" and did so for the cinematography which is astounding, especially for the time. So I can see someone listening to GBK or Arghoslent (who have some impressive riffage - especially on the debut) for the pure musical aspect of it. But I may be mistaken. It is just that I do not care what other people do with their time consuming music. I really do not. People will listening to the weirdest shit for the weirdest reasons sometimes.

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Oxenkiller
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 3:54 pm 
 

There are bands/musicians who express far-right views but their lyrics are not necessarily a reflection of that, like for example Burzum, Graveland (though that one's kind of iffy) and I guess you could add Iced Earth to that description. Then there are out and out hate-core bigots in bands which spew out hate-core, racist, far right lyrics. This is where I draw the line.

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CreepingDeath16
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Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2021 12:49 am
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 4:11 pm 
 

Zdan wrote:
Well....I watched "Triumph of the Will" and did so for the cinematography which is astounding, especially for the time. So I can see someone listening to GBK or Arghoslent (who have some impressive riffage - especially on the debut) for the pure musical aspect of it. But I may be mistaken. It is just that I do not care what other people do with their time consuming music. I really do not. People will listening to the weirdest shit for the weirdest reasons sometimes.

I wouldn't compare cinematography to riffs, your example is more like listening to music for the production and technical side of things. It suggests an emotional detachment from the material being evaluated, and I don't think any "but the riffs" chuds listen to music like that.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 5:27 pm 
 

Oxenkiller wrote:
There are bands/musicians who express far-right views but their lyrics are not necessarily a reflection of that, like for example Burzum, Graveland (though that one's kind of iffy) and I guess you could add Iced Earth to that description. Then there are out and out hate-core bigots in bands which spew out hate-core, racist, far right lyrics. This is where I draw the line.


I'm pretty checked out of any kind of explicit right wing stuff, but yeah like I said - it's much more insane to me to listen to stuff with titles like "Flogging the Cargo" or "Simian Surge" or something, or anything in those GBK lyrics, and go "yup I feel good supporting this." Just how I feel.

I don't think art should be sanitized or safe at all, but at the same time I do try and stay conscious of who it is I am giving money to.
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Zdan
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 8:06 pm 
 

Oxenkiller wrote:
There are bands/musicians who express far-right views but their lyrics are not necessarily a reflection of that, like for example Burzum, Graveland (though that one's kind of iffy) and I guess you could add Iced Earth to that description. Then there are out and out hate-core bigots in bands which spew out hate-core, racist, far right lyrics. This is where I draw the line.


It is the Mgła thing all over again. As far I listened to it none of their stuff is outright racist or even in an implicit manner. GBK or Arghoslent do what they do. In a purely musical sense I can understand listening to them, I truly do. In a moral sense - not really but then again looking for moral and proper ethical stances in extreme metal is folly to my understanding.

CreepingDeath16 wrote:
Zdan wrote:
Well....I watched "Triumph of the Will" and did so for the cinematography which is astounding, especially for the time. So I can see someone listening to GBK or Arghoslent (who have some impressive riffage - especially on the debut) for the pure musical aspect of it. But I may be mistaken. It is just that I do not care what other people do with their time consuming music. I really do not. People will listening to the weirdest shit for the weirdest reasons sometimes.

I wouldn't compare cinematography to riffs, your example is more like listening to music for the production and technical side of things. It suggests an emotional detachment from the material being evaluated, and I don't think any "but the riffs" chuds listen to music like that.


Not really. The cinematography is the substance of cinema/movies - at least in the case of stuff like "Triumph of the Will". It is like listening to GBK for the riffcraft - you could learn something there regardless of the ideological stance of the material presented. Granted I think most "but the riffs" people do not do that but you could and I see nothing wrong in that inherently. However I understand it might be too much for some people. To each his own.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 9:06 pm 
 

I don't see why that's a folly.
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DE4tH84
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2022 12:12 am 
 

simonitro wrote:
"Piece by Piece" is my personal favorite song on Slayer's Reign in Blood album and it's a very common song that people think of when it comes to this album. I don't know... who else thinks that's their personal favorite on the album? The shorter songs are awesome and even with their speed, somehow, they do feel kinda hypnotic.

It’s one of my favorite Slayer songs for sure. That song is straight death metal minus the vocals.

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Zdan
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2022 3:43 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:
I don't see why that's a folly.


If that was targeted at me I do not get it. Can you elaborate?

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CreepingDeath16
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2022 5:28 am 
 

Zdan wrote:
Not really. The cinematography is the substance of cinema/movies - at least in the case of stuff like "Triumph of the Will". It is like listening to GBK for the riffcraft - you could learn something there regardless of the ideological stance of the material presented. Granted I think most "but the riffs" people do not do that but you could and I see nothing wrong in that inherently. However I understand it might be too much for some people. To each his own.

I guess we watch movies differently. In my opinion cinematography aids the direction (production) of the script (compositions) and the acting (performances), which are the substance of movies, very much like sound engineering does in music. Of course also music can be listened to in different ways, so agree to disagree.
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DecemberSoul
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2022 5:50 am 
 

- Entety were so much better than many of their US contemporaries
- Morta Skuld, Cianide, Napalm Death (their DM-era), Benediction and Unleashed are all prime examples of booooring death metal
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LilTito
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2022 7:30 am 
 

Not entirely metal, but..

Bill Ward is just better than John Bonham. Bonham got heavily martyred after he died. I can't think of a single reason why would he better than Bill W

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Zdan
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2022 7:56 am 
 

Paradox "Heresy" can go toe-to-toe with any top tier thrash metal album - including stuff from Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax, Heathen etc.

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Forever Underground
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2022 8:31 am 
 

Zdan wrote:
Paradox "Heresy" can go toe-to-toe with any top tier thrash metal album - including stuff from Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax, Heathen etc.

There are many thrash albums that are above the stuff from Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer and Anthrax

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Zdan
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2022 8:37 am 
 

Forever Underground wrote:
Zdan wrote:
Paradox "Heresy" can go toe-to-toe with any top tier thrash metal album - including stuff from Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax, Heathen etc.

There are many thrash albums that are above the stuff from Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer and Anthrax


Possibly but that is another discussion I think. I named those bands and their top tier stuff because they are generally known and liked. Paradox by comparison rarely gets a mention - my point was that this particular album could compete with stuff like "Spreading the Disease" or even "Rust In Peace".

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Bishop_Drugsalot
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2022 9:47 am 
 

Spreading the Disease and Rust in Peace sucks. And Master of Puppets

Spectrum of Death, Schizophrenia, Darkness Descends do not

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Zdan
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2022 9:49 am 
 

Bishop_Drugsalot wrote:
Spreading the Disease and Rust in Peace sucks. And Master of Puppets

Spectrum of Death, Schizophrenia, Darkness Descends do not


Rust In Peace sucks? Spreading the Diseases sucks? Now THAT is a hot and unpopular take. But to each his own.

I would not put Heresy next to Schizophrenia or Darkness Descends as it is a wholly different take on thrash than those two.

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Gravetemplar
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2022 9:53 am 
 

I agree Megadeth are pretty bad. They are not thrash, they are trash.

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Slater922
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2022 10:53 am 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
I agree Megadeth are pretty bad. They are not thrash, they are trash.

o_O

Okay, assuming you're not trolling and/or trying to rile up people for the sake of it, I'd heavily suggest you re-listen to Peace Sells and especially Rust in Peace. Those two albums alone are thrash metal classics.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2022 10:57 am 
 

I've really had zero interest in revisiting any Megadeth. I used to like them a long time ago but there's lots more interesting shit out there for me now. Old Metallica is great though, MOP is a monument.

Zdan wrote:
If that was targeted at me I do not get it. Can you elaborate?


You can listen to extreme music and still not like fascism or tolerate it is all I meant. Was based on your comment:

Quote:
looking for moral and proper ethical stances in extreme metal is folly to my understanding.


I just can't get on board with the idea that being antifascist is the same as "wanting moral and ethical proper choices." I don't vibe with that shit at all.
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Zdan
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2022 11:13 am 
 

Okay I get it now. My thing is this - extreme music will and DOES suck in extreme types. This is nothing new - especially in the case of black metal. What I wanted to say is that the music can run the gamut of stances. Of course I agree that you can listen to extreme stuff and not be a racist. Hell I would argue there are people who listen to Arghoslent, Burzum, Mgła etc. that are not racist and could give two fucks about the stance of the band/band members on certain issues.

Edit: And early Megadeth is absolutely astounding good. The production can sometimes suck and does but the music itself is great.

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Gravetemplar
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2022 11:29 am 
 

Slater922 wrote:
Gravetemplar wrote:
I agree Megadeth are pretty bad. They are not thrash, they are trash.

o_O

Okay, assuming you're not trolling and/or trying to rile up people for the sake of it, I'd heavily suggest you re-listen to Peace Sells and especially Rust in Peace. Those two albums alone are thrash metal classics.

Sadly I'm familiar with both albums. I must have listened to both of them at least 10 times and I still think Megadeth are a terrible band. To each his own I guess, I just can't stand them.

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Zdan
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2022 11:31 am 
 

I kinda understand when people are coming from when they do not like stuff like Megadeth. Apart from "Kill'Em All" I never go back to Metallica albums - I find them boring, middle-of-the-road stuff.

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KaiKasparek
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2022 11:46 am 
 

Schizophrenia has a great, raw, dark sound but after Inquisition Symphony I couldn't tell you how a note of it goes.

Rust, Spreading > Schizophrenia

Schizophrenia == Puppets
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true_death
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2022 12:17 pm 
 

I really don't "get" WASP. To me they're just really mediocre and didn't write good or memorable songs. I also don't think this band deserves the recognition they receive. Blackie being a fucking idiot doesn't help, obviously.

Manilla Road...I can kind of see the appeal - I like the "vibe" of the band I just don't think their songs are particularly memorable or good. Maybe I just haven't heard the right stuff.

Necrophagia...I can get into Season of the Dead and also Ready for Death if you want to count that. Those are pretty good, a bit "B-tier" perhaps, nowhere near the heights of early Possessed, Death, Morbid Angel, etc. but still enjoyable. But to me all the "reunion" stuff is really terrible and fucking boring. Especially their swansong White Worm Cathedral...RIP Killjoy, but what a fucking terrible way to go out.

DecemberSoul wrote:
- Morta Skuld, Cianide, Napalm Death (their DM-era), Benediction and Unleashed are all prime examples of booooring death metal


No, those are all prime examples of good death metal. Boring death metal would be The Dead Youth - Writhing, Killing Addiction - Omega Factor, Lemming Project - Hate & Despise, etc.
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Bishop_Drugsalot
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2022 12:41 pm 
 

KaiKasparek wrote:
Schizophrenia has a great, raw, dark sound but after Inquisition Symphony I couldn't tell you how a note of it goes.


Whaat, just after Inquisition Symphony it hits you in the face with a magnificent riff barrage of Screams Behind the Shadows. That song has a metric fuck ton of golden stuff

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Morton Salt
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2022 3:33 pm 
 

true_death wrote:
DecemberSoul wrote:
- Morta Skuld, Cianide, Napalm Death (their DM-era), Benediction and Unleashed are all prime examples of booooring death metal


No, those are all prime examples of good death metal. Boring death metal would be The Dead Youth - Writhing, Killing Addiction - Omega Factor, Lemming Project - Hate & Despise, etc.


+ the first two Viogression albums

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Hexenmacht46290
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2022 3:52 pm 
 

LilTito wrote:
Not entirely metal, but..

Bill Ward is just better than John Bonham. Bonham got heavily martyred after he died. I can't think of a single reason why would he better than Bill W


I remember reading 50th anniversary articles, commemorating the first two Black Sabbath albums, posted on here, and seeing something surprising. The author compared Paranoid to the Led Zeppelin albums that were out at the time. He said that while Led Zeppelin was talking about giving you ‘every inch of their love,’ Black Sabbath talked about traumatized veterans overdosing on heroin, nuclear holocausts, poverty, and being born children of the grave.

I was shocked, to see it, in a mainstream, “respectable” newspaper. Because, a decade earlier, in high school, I had been denounced, for simply saying that I liked Black Sabbath more than Led Zeppelin. People told me that I had poor taste, and that I was an edgelord, and loser, who didn’t understand the inherent superiority, of a band that had gone acoustic, and had their songs covered, in orchestra halls, and therefore, become unassailable gods, to music critics, simply for playing some lighter, non-hard rock material.

Led Zeppelin’s music is good, but people make them into gods, who represent youth, and fun, but in an acceptable way. You aren’t supposed to criticize them, because they were broke up, due to tragic circumstances, and became martyred heroes, of a vanished “golden age,” which people identify with, and tell themselves that they were a part of, and that anyone under the age of 60 will just never understand.
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LilTito
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 3:10 pm
Posts: 193
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2022 7:14 pm 
 

Hexenmacht46290 wrote:
LilTito wrote:
Not entirely metal, but..

Bill Ward is just better than John Bonham. Bonham got heavily martyred after he died. I can't think of a single reason why would he better than Bill W


I remember reading 50th anniversary articles, commemorating the first two Black Sabbath albums, posted on here, and seeing something surprising. The author compared Paranoid to the Led Zeppelin albums that were out at the time. He said that while Led Zeppelin was talking about giving you ‘every inch of their love,’ Black Sabbath talked about traumatized veterans overdosing on heroin, nuclear holocausts, poverty, and being born children of the grave.

I was shocked, to see it, in a mainstream, “respectable” newspaper. Because, a decade earlier, in high school, I had been denounced, for simply saying that I liked Black Sabbath more than Led Zeppelin. People told me that I had poor taste, and that I was an edgelord, and loser, who didn’t understand the inherent superiority, of a band that had gone acoustic, and had their songs covered, in orchestra halls, and therefore, become unassailable gods, to music critics, simply for playing some lighter, non-hard rock material.

Led Zeppelin’s music is good, but people make them into gods, who represent youth, and fun, but in an acceptable way. You aren’t supposed to criticize them, because they were broke up, due to tragic circumstances, and became martyred heroes, of a vanished “golden age,” which people identify with, and tell themselves that they were a part of, and that anyone under the age of 60 will just never understand.

That's exactly right haha. Funnily enough both BS and Zep are 2 of my favorite bands ever. I'd be content with saying that Jimmy and JPJ are potentially more accomplished musicians than Tony and Geez, even though i think the latter just simply made better riffs and lines respectively, but the Bonham situation just always irked me.

Ironically when i was younger i didn't pay much attention to drumming at all, i just thought that's the way you were supposed to do it, but in the past few years i have come to the realization that ole Bill is just such a fantastic, groovy and delicious drummer. I have NOTHING against John, but let's be objective here. Anyway, just had to get this off my chest

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