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Tiam Kara
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Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:28 am
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 7:21 pm 
 

Tim Owens deserves more than he’s ever gotten. Is there a vocalist who went so long without a major longterm project in their career who deserved it more? I mean a real band, not just a fleeting one-off, temporary replacement vocalist, or whatever Charred Walls of the Damned was. Tim Owens should be a household name. He should have gotten a big break somewhere. If Iced Earth had kept him it could have been truly special. He should have had a longterm spot like that.
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KaiKasparek
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 7:45 pm 
 

He's definitely a cautionary tale about being a replacement vocalist. At least Blaze Bayley has some kind of following. I think the biggest problem is he can't write songs. He's had solo albums, and they just weren't Blizzard of Ozz, Holy Diver or even Them quality. Shit Udo has even managed to have a sustainable solo career. Jon Schaffer is definitely more of a reprehensible band leader in terms of letting him go, and Tim even said as much.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/ripper_owens_judas_priest_fired_me_properly_iced_earth_didnt.html

That said, Rob needs to get over his ego and either a) do what Helloween's doing and let Tim in, or b) sing some of the Jugulator songs. Death Row, Blood Stained and Bullet Train (Scott Travis's second greatest drum performance after Painkiller) are all very worthy songs of a Priest setlist. Plus Glenn and KK wrote them without Tim, so it's not like the performance royalties would go anywhere different.

He needs to shut up about politics though. He's not as bad as uncle ped or that pussy from Staind, but still.
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Zdan
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 8:01 pm 
 

Tim can give a great performance live (I have seen him with his solo band and as a concert experience it was great) or on record but he cannot write songs. He needs someone that will write for him. As KaiKasparek said that has been his greatest detriment in terms of a long-term career. He is a great performer and a great vocal talent but after his solo ventures failed - both Beyond Fear and that dreadful solo record - he seems to be drifting aimlessly. My personal favourite with him on vocals is the first Winters Bane record and he wrote none of that.

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Tiam Kara
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Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:28 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 8:04 pm 
 

For sure, for sure. I don’t disagree with you two. I really think he’s a vocalist who deserves to be written for though. He’s an A-1 unrestricted free agent, in a sense.
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oldmetalhead
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 8:20 pm 
 

Ripper is a bar band cover artist. He can't write a thing.
Someone compared him to Blaze and that is ridiculous. Blaze has produced many albums of great music, what exactly has Ripper done? I'll wait.

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Zdan
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 8:25 pm 
 

oldmetalhead wrote:
Ripper is a bar band cover artist. He can't write a thing.
Someone compared him to Blaze and that is ridiculous. Blaze has produced many albums of great music, what exactly has Ripper done? I'll wait.


Actually...and this is a wild shot in the dark....Ripper maybe could ride the cover artist wave. He has the chops to sing nearly everything. Get a good band behind him, market it as "classic metal night" or something of that sort and let him belt out Dio, Sabbath, Priest or even Maiden stuff. People would be happy to hear that I recon and Ripper could do this without much sweat.

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oldmetalhead
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 8:40 pm 
 

Zdan wrote:
oldmetalhead wrote:
Ripper is a bar band cover artist. He can't write a thing.
Someone compared him to Blaze and that is ridiculous. Blaze has produced many albums of great music, what exactly has Ripper done? I'll wait.


Actually...and this is a wild shot in the dark....Ripper maybe could ride the cover artist wave. He has the chops to sing nearly everything. Get a good band behind him, market it as "classic metal night" or something of that sort and let him belt out Dio, Sabbath, Priest or even Maiden stuff. People would be happy to hear that I recon and Ripper could do this without much sweat.

No doubt, he has the skill to do covers. As a creative force, not so much.

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ModusOperandi
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 8:42 pm 
 

^ James Rivera's been doing that very thing for years now and from what I can tell, it's been working out pretty good for him.
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KrigareTjovane
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 9:40 pm 
 

Absolutely not. Any time I see his name on an album the first thing that comes to mind is "unfortunate".

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 10:27 pm 
 

oldmetalhead wrote:
Ripper is a bar band cover artist. He can't write a thing.
Someone compared him to Blaze and that is ridiculous. Blaze has produced many albums of great music, what exactly has Ripper done? I'll wait.


Yeah, I can't say I really give a shit about or respect Ripper even a little. A lot of what he's done is actively annoying and bad to my ears.
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Twisted_Psychology
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2022 10:45 am 
 

Zdan wrote:
oldmetalhead wrote:
Ripper is a bar band cover artist. He can't write a thing.
Someone compared him to Blaze and that is ridiculous. Blaze has produced many albums of great music, what exactly has Ripper done? I'll wait.


Actually...and this is a wild shot in the dark....Ripper maybe could ride the cover artist wave. He has the chops to sing nearly everything. Get a good band behind him, market it as "classic metal night" or something of that sort and let him belt out Dio, Sabbath, Priest or even Maiden stuff. People would be happy to hear that I recon and Ripper could do this without much sweat.


He basically already does this live, he's been in plenty of tribute sets and his solo tours are interspersed with covers of his previous bands and classic metal songs in general.

I feel like I've mentioned in another thread but I have a personal theory that Beyond Fear not catching on severely deflated his spirits. He's clearly not interested in the thankless work that it takes for a new project to achieve long term viability to the point that he'll take on any project if you pay him enough but will abandon every other project after an album or two if it doesn't sell. I actively followed his career through the 2000s but I can't get as invested when he himself isn't particularly invested. I think the platforms he got with Priest and Iced Earth gave him a need for instant gratification and a heightened careerist perspective on it. It's perfectly understandable to approach it that way if you do want to do music as a "real job," but he brought the hired gun reputation on himself.
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Zdan
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2022 11:24 am 
 

Yeah the thing with Ripper is that he has not really "toiled in the underground" (whatever that means) and jumped to the big stage really early in his career. I still maintain to this day that his performance and best album he sang on is that Winters Bane record and that did not really take the world by storm. Then he jumped into one of THE bands in metal in Priest and it is not hard to see why he would not stick to a project but jump ship to ship when those projects did not really catch on. He also done some really cringy stuff or just boring stuff like that Three Tremors shit or that Spirits of Fire record. Beyond Fear could be great if they really worked at it but the whimper of that record really must have struck a blow to his "own band" idea.

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In Die Nacht
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2022 1:30 pm 
 

I have conflicting feelings on Ripper because I have always enjoyed his Priest material and Iced Earth was a decent jumping off point after getting the axe.

Beyond having lackluster material in his sojourns since, he has another issue. He ran away from the classic metal wail and tried to modernize too much, blend styles and basically make trainwrecks of most shit he sings on. This is why KK's Priest is the best stuff he's done since Glorious Burden. He really should have gone the U.D.O. route with European style power metal, a stable lineup and road dog appearances through all Summer festivals. Instead he stayed home, in OHIO no less, taking gigs from home while launching a failed music venue.

Should've partnered up with Roy Z in 2007 and made Halford-style solo records immediately. Someone who actually assembles quality metal tunes. Not garbage like the dudes in Cage and the overcooked abortion of the Three Tremors.

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doomicus
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2022 6:42 pm 
 

The dude has definite chops and vocal talent but all the personality of a 2x4. Add to that the lack of composing skills and all the endorsement Monster Energy drink nonsense and it's easy to see why he has been regulated to a use and toss hired gun.
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Benedict Donald
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2022 6:48 pm 
 

There must be some solid reasons why he doesn't hold a gig for long. Is it just 'bad luck', or might there be more tangible reasons as to why his tenures in bands and with artists are short-lived? Not sure we'll truly know.

I'm not a fan of his voice EXCEPT for his records with Iced Earth. Whoever produced those got great performances out of him.

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Zdan
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2022 6:50 pm 
 

Benedict Donald wrote:
There must be some solid reasons why he doesn't hold a gig for long. Is it just 'bad luck', or might there be more tangible reasons as to why his tenures in bands and with artists are short-lived? Not sure we'll truly know.

I'm not a fan of his voice EXCEPT for his records with Iced Earth. Whoever produced those got great performances out of him.


I have not followed any interviews about Ripper but personality issues are very possible. That guy has (or had) the chops and was recognizable enough to give clout to whatever band would choose him as a permanent vocalist. Maybe after those stints he just does not want to have a steady gig? That is possible too.

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Zerberus
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 5:51 am 
 

Zdan wrote:
oldmetalhead wrote:
Ripper is a bar band cover artist. He can't write a thing.
Someone compared him to Blaze and that is ridiculous. Blaze has produced many albums of great music, what exactly has Ripper done? I'll wait.


Actually...and this is a wild shot in the dark....Ripper maybe could ride the cover artist wave. He has the chops to sing nearly everything. Get a good band behind him, market it as "classic metal night" or something of that sort and let him belt out Dio, Sabbath, Priest or even Maiden stuff. People would be happy to hear that I recon and Ripper could do this without much sweat.


Ripper did do this with the band Hail! some years ago. Back when the lineup was him, David Ellefson and Andreas Kisser. They played a setlist consisting of something like:
Ace of Spades
Territory
Symphony of Destruction
Grinder
Stand Up and Shout
Walk
Balls to the Wall
Neon Knights
Wrathchild
Run to the Hills
Green Manalishi
Burn in Hell
South of Heaven
Peace Sells
Paranoid
Breaking the Law
Refuse/Resist
Whiplash
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Space_alligator
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 7:03 am 
 

Fortunate or unfortunate?

Not many people have had the opportunities he has had, just imagine how many singers have never made the rockstar ambitions real and have remained stuck in the bar touring circuit or playing local bands.

He got the opportunity to record and tour with his idols, plus recorded and/or toured with other big names like Malmsteen, Iced Earth, KK's Priest...
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Zdan
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 8:46 am 
 

Space_alligator wrote:
Fortunate or unfortunate?

Not many people have had the opportunities he has had, just imagine how many singers have never made the rockstar ambitions real and have remained stuck in the bar touring circuit or playing local bands.

He got the opportunity to record and tour with his idols, plus recorded and/or toured with other big names like Malmsteen, Iced Earth, KK's Priest...


This is why it is even sadder that he did not manage to turn all of those opportunities and chances into a some sort of stable recording career. He has the chops, he was handed the world and some and the results are...disappointing at best.

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CoffeeCat
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 10:15 am 
 

Tim Owens is a great singer, and has the talent to do way more. Like others, that makes me wonder if here's something to the notion him having personality issues. Maybe it's an ego, maybe he's super toxic, maybe he has some bad views, who knows, but people should be falling over trying to get him in their bands. Instead he's relegated to C-tier side projects, spinoffs, and no-name groups nobody's heard of. Is he just colossally bad at picking winners? Or does he have attention span and commitment issues?

I also don't think that not being able to write music is a huge impediment to his success. There's tons of bands that have members who aren't great songwriters, but are still technically gifted. Especially if he's joining an existing band, I don't think there needs to be much there - his stints in Judas Priest and Iced Earth are evidence of that. It's just so strange that he's had nothing worthwhile since then.

Maybe a part of why he hasn't stuck with anyone for long is precisely that self-fulfilling prophecy. Now that he has a rep as a hired gun, someone you call when you need a singer, maybe that's all the work he can get. And honestly, that's fine from a certain standpoint because it means he gets to work with some amazing musicians and try new things. Most bands that stick it out for a long time are close-knit friends, but it's hard to get that type of energy and in that sort of hungry, young, all-or-nothing situation when you're in your 40s or 50s.
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TadGhostal
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 1:36 pm 
 

CoffeeCat wrote:
Tim Owens is a great singer, and has the talent to do way more. Like others, that makes me wonder if here's something to the notion him having personality issues. Maybe it's an ego, maybe he's super toxic, maybe he has some bad views, who knows, but people should be falling over trying to get him in their bands. Instead he's relegated to C-tier side projects, spinoffs, and no-name groups nobody's heard of. Is he just colossally bad at picking winners? Or does he have attention span and commitment issues?

I also don't think that not being able to write music is a huge impediment to his success. There's tons of bands that have members who aren't great songwriters, but are still technically gifted. Especially if he's joining an existing band, I don't think there needs to be much there - his stints in Judas Priest and Iced Earth are evidence of that. It's just so strange that he's had nothing worthwhile since then.

Maybe a part of why he hasn't stuck with anyone for long is precisely that self-fulfilling prophecy. Now that he has a rep as a hired gun, someone you call when you need a singer, maybe that's all the work he can get. And honestly, that's fine from a certain standpoint because it means he gets to work with some amazing musicians and try new things. Most bands that stick it out for a long time are close-knit friends, but it's hard to get that type of energy and in that sort of hungry, young, all-or-nothing situation when you're in your 40s or 50s.


I think that the inability to write is actually a huge detriment to what some people here think he should be. Rock bands tend to be controlled by the songwriter(s), which is why so many songwriters front their own bands. And when you don't write, you're at the mercy of the songwriter's ability and ego. Iced Earth and Yngwie Malmsteen have cycled through lots of musicians because, at the end of the day, those projects belonged to a single creator who sees other musicians as something to use to fulfill their own vision and to be replaced when they want something different. When you don't write and you're just hired for gigs, that's what you're gonna deal with. I think people tend to view vocalists differently than, say, bassists or drummers, and that there's this idea that a band should be built around Ripper and his vocals but you need an artistic vision for that.

I think if his personality was really an issue he wouldn't be getting gigs at all. Because he's vocalized some conservative beliefs some people are starting think of him as like a Ted Nugent or Dave Mustaine or something, but if he was a total asshole no one would be hiring him. I could have missed it, but I don't recall hearing a lot of stories about how he was fired from a group because he was hard to deal with.

Honestly, I think the guy is way more fortunate than unfortunate. Stepping into Judas Priest was a mixed blessing because it got his name out there but he was replacing one of metal's most iconic singers. Fans were always going to compare him to Rob, and Priest was going to jump at any chance to get Rob back. But Ripper managed to build a career after that which a lot of musicians don't get a chance to do.

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Terri23
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 7:22 pm 
 

To answer the OP, I have a contender for the most unfortunate vocalist. There's a singer from New York called Matt Fallon. He's had the misfortune to front two bands that would become household names at one point, and he didn't even record an no EP with either of them. The first joined Anthrax in 1984 after Neil Turbin was fired. He was gone by the time they began recording for Spreading the Disease. By 1986 he's fronting Skid Row, and again, by 1987, he's been replaced by a teenager lad who would become known as Sebastian Bach. He fronted two bands that would go on to sell platinum records and headline world wide tours by the end of the decade, and he's almost entirely been forgotten to history.
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EndorphinMachine
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Joined: Fri May 28, 2021 9:18 am
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 8:03 am 
 

KaiKasparek wrote:
That said, Rob needs to get over his ego and either a) do what Helloween's doing and let Tim in, or b) sing some of the Jugulator songs.

The iconic frontman should make room for the unpopular dude who replaced him for a while making two wildly unsuccessful albums, after which they begged said icon to come back? Insane stuff amigo, this might be the worst idea mankind ever came up with.

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Benedict Donald
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 9:46 am 
 

EndorphinMachine wrote:
KaiKasparek wrote:
That said, Rob needs to get over his ego and either a) do what Helloween's doing and let Tim in, or b) sing some of the Jugulator songs.

The iconic frontman should make room for the unpopular dude who replaced him for a while making two wildly unsuccessful albums, after which they begged said icon to come back?


Agreed. Owens needs to stay as far away from Priest as possible.

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Rico McPato
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 10:08 am 
 

Yeah, Owens coming back to Priest for a reunion tour makes as little sense as Blaze coming back to Maiden (and I am big fan of Blaze era Maiden). The Helloween situation was quite different, Deris stayed after Kiske came back because a) while not as popular as the Keeper era, Deris-era Helloween was quite strong, had a large body of work, and was reasonably succesful on its own terms and b) he is not an employee, but owns the band with Weikath and Grosskopf.

I think Owens has had a decent career given that, as said, he is a good singer, but has not shown the ability to be a songwriter or the ability/drive to form his own band. If anything, the one who I think deserves much more recognition and popularity is Blaze Bayley, who has released many good/great albums since he left Maiden.

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tobi is an animal
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 11:34 am 
 

Terri23 wrote:
To answer the OP, I have a contender for the most unfortunate vocalist. There's a singer from New York called Matt Fallon. He's had the misfortune to front two bands that would become household names at one point, and he didn't even record an no EP with either of them. The first joined Anthrax in 1984 after Neil Turbin was fired. He was gone by the time they began recording for Spreading the Disease. By 1986 he's fronting Skid Row, and again, by 1987, he's been replaced by a teenager lad who would become known as Sebastian Bach. He fronted two bands that would go on to sell platinum records and headline world wide tours by the end of the decade, and he's almost entirely been forgotten to history.


My counter to that would be, maybe neither of those bands would have made it big if Matt Fallon had remained their singer. Skid Row for sure would not have made it, Bach's vocals took those songs to another level. Actually I think the record company told the band if they wanted a record deal they had to get a better vocalist.

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Rico McPato
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 11:48 am 
 

tobi is an animal wrote:
Terri23 wrote:
To answer the OP, I have a contender for the most unfortunate vocalist. There's a singer from New York called Matt Fallon. He's had the misfortune to front two bands that would become household names at one point, and he didn't even record an no EP with either of them. The first joined Anthrax in 1984 after Neil Turbin was fired. He was gone by the time they began recording for Spreading the Disease. By 1986 he's fronting Skid Row, and again, by 1987, he's been replaced by a teenager lad who would become known as Sebastian Bach. He fronted two bands that would go on to sell platinum records and headline world wide tours by the end of the decade, and he's almost entirely been forgotten to history.


My counter to that would be, maybe neither of those bands would have made it big if Matt Fallon had remained their singer. Skid Row for sure would not have made it, Bach's vocals took those songs to another level. Actually I think the record company told the band if they wanted a record deal they had to get a better vocalist.


Yeah, the songs in the Fallon demos are identical to those that ended up in the album, but Bach really made a difference. Fallon was not bad, but he sounded like any random glam metal singer, and made those songs sound much more generic.

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Terri23
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 7:45 pm 
 

tobi is an animal wrote:
Terri23 wrote:
To answer the OP, I have a contender for the most unfortunate vocalist. There's a singer from New York called Matt Fallon. He's had the misfortune to front two bands that would become household names at one point, and he didn't even record an no EP with either of them. The first joined Anthrax in 1984 after Neil Turbin was fired. He was gone by the time they began recording for Spreading the Disease. By 1986 he's fronting Skid Row, and again, by 1987, he's been replaced by a teenager lad who would become known as Sebastian Bach. He fronted two bands that would go on to sell platinum records and headline world wide tours by the end of the decade, and he's almost entirely been forgotten to history.


My counter to that would be, maybe neither of those bands would have made it big if Matt Fallon had remained their singer. Skid Row for sure would not have made it, Bach's vocals took those songs to another level. Actually I think the record company told the band if they wanted a record deal they had to get a better vocalist.


That's very possible, we will never really know for sure. I'm not sure that Belladonna is a better singer than Fallon, but I'm absolutely sure that Bach rips Fallon to shreds. I do know that, at least according to Scott Ian, Fallon seemed to have no confidence on stage. Ian absolutely thought he was a fantastic singer. However, while they were beginning to record Spreading the Disease Anthrax were due to open for the Scorpions, and Fallon was terrified of "being blown off of the stage" by them. The band immediately sacked him. He last for about 3 months toward the end of 1984, and I don't even know if he performed a gig with them. Setlist.fm have no shows recorded during this time.

Rico McPato wrote:
tobi is an animal wrote:
Terri23 wrote:
To answer the OP, I have a contender for the most unfortunate vocalist. There's a singer from New York called Matt Fallon. He's had the misfortune to front two bands that would become household names at one point, and he didn't even record an no EP with either of them. The first joined Anthrax in 1984 after Neil Turbin was fired. He was gone by the time they began recording for Spreading the Disease. By 1986 he's fronting Skid Row, and again, by 1987, he's been replaced by a teenager lad who would become known as Sebastian Bach. He fronted two bands that would go on to sell platinum records and headline world wide tours by the end of the decade, and he's almost entirely been forgotten to history.


My counter to that would be, maybe neither of those bands would have made it big if Matt Fallon had remained their singer. Skid Row for sure would not have made it, Bach's vocals took those songs to another level. Actually I think the record company told the band if they wanted a record deal they had to get a better vocalist.


Yeah, the songs in the Fallon demos are identical to those that ended up in the album, but Bach really made a difference. Fallon was not bad, but he sounded like any random glam metal singer, and made those songs sound much more generic.


I'd love to hear if he did any recordings for Spreading the Disease. If he did, they certainly haven't leaked. I have heard his recordings for Skid Row, and I completely agree with you.
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Benedict Donald
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2022 2:53 pm 
 

Rico McPato wrote:
...the one who I think deserves much more recognition and popularity is Blaze Bayley, who has released many good/great albums since he left Maiden.


Spot on. I'll continue to wave the flag for Blaze, whose solo career has been largely stellar.

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Zodijackyl
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2022 4:33 pm 
 

Tiam Kara wrote:
He should have gotten a big break somewhere.


He fronted one of the most famous bands in metal after their iconic singer left. Immediately after that, another band's longtime, iconic singer left and they hired Owens - their next album was the biggest commercial success of their career. He pulled off one more significant stint with a legend right after that.

Benedict Donald wrote:
There must be some solid reasons why he doesn't hold a gig for long. Is it just 'bad luck', or might there be more tangible reasons as to why his tenures in bands and with artists are short-lived? Not sure we'll truly know.


His tenures haven't been particularly short, and the reasons are pretty well known. Other than the big three below, I reckon his tenures have been short since none of his bands have had sustained commercial success. He seems pretty well-respected considering how many notable musicians work with him.

He spent seven years in Priest, and he acknowledged that everyone knew Halford would eventually come back to the band. His tenure in Iced Earth was comparable to the dozens of other ex-members, and that band's notoriously-difficult-to-work-with mainman also fired him in order to bring back the band's longest-tenured and iconic singer, who happened to also be his brother-in-law. Yngwie had even more of a revolving lineup, and Owens was the second-longest tenured of his dozen lead singers, before Yngwie decided to be his own lead singer.

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KaiKasparek
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Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:06 pm
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2022 6:49 pm 
 

I meant Rob AND Tim in the band, not Tim replacing Rob. Jesus I'm not one of THOSE people.
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Tiam Kara
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2022 7:03 pm 
 

Terri23 wrote:
To answer the OP, I have a contender for the most unfortunate vocalist. There's a singer from New York called Matt Fallon. He's had the misfortune to front two bands that would become household names at one point, and he didn't even record an no EP with either of them. The first joined Anthrax in 1984 after Neil Turbin was fired. He was gone by the time they began recording for Spreading the Disease. By 1986 he's fronting Skid Row, and again, by 1987, he's been replaced by a teenager lad who would become known as Sebastian Bach. He fronted two bands that would go on to sell platinum records and headline world wide tours by the end of the decade, and he's almost entirely been forgotten to history.


That’s fucking tragic, dude. At least Owens had the chance to be heard.
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Opus
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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2022 10:31 pm 
 

Are we sure that's what he really wants? No matter how much we see metal musicians as rock stars, it's a job. Especially if you're coming into someone else's band, like he did with Iced Earth, where he probably doesn't have much say, be it because of the band leader or the long time fans. It's a job. If you're then have passed your twenties and maybe want to have a family, touring around the world for a relatively lousy pay is nothing but a shitty job in an uncertain industry.
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Mitternachtswolf
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun May 29, 2022 7:04 pm
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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2022 12:03 pm 
 

Exactly. He pays his rent from a home studio. It sounds like it too.

He wakes up. Makes some coffee. And cuts vocals for an album.

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