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Forever Underground
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:35 am
Posts: 142
Location: Spain
PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:53 am 
 

Corpsey the Clown wrote:
And it's actually more fun to talk about metal on RYM than here, which is sad in many ways.


I'm not surprised you think that when the rest of your opinions sound like they're made by a 14 year old kid trying to be as edgy as possible.

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Slater922
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:24 pm
Posts: 1660
PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:13 am 
 

Forever Underground wrote:
Corpsey the Clown wrote:
And it's actually more fun to talk about metal on RYM than here, which is sad in many ways.


I'm not surprised you think that when the rest of your opinions sound like they're made by a 14 year old kid trying to be as edgy as possible.

I mean, with a name like "Corpsey the Clown", it almost feels like a 14 year old made up that username.
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Chaosmonger
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:59 pm
Posts: 1299
PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:25 am 
 

Lord_Of_Diamonds wrote:
I fucking hate it when the vocalist constantly calls from the stage for the crowd to mosh or bang their heads. Like, come on, dude. If we want to mosh, we'll mosh, dammit. Maybe, like the above poster says, your material isn't mosh-worthy. In all the live videos I see in which the vocalist calls for the crowd to mosh, it's often during a very specific part of the song that is obviously designed to get folks moving and doesn't last that long.


it's weird because if they weren't moshing before, wouldn't it count as a pity-mosh if they only did it because the vocalist asked them to? You got to earn your audience reaction.

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thrashinbatman
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:31 pm
Posts: 1440
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:03 am 
 

the only time that's not lame is if you KNOW that they'll give you that reaction. otherwise it's a gamble where you'll look pretty lame if you lose.

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BastardHead
Worse than Stalin

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
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Location: Oswego, Illinois
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:12 am 
 

Corpsey the Clown wrote:
Political correctness has no place in metal.


I would genuinely love to hear a more comprehensive list of what precisely "does not belong" in metal stacked side by side with what "should belong" in metal. Please have your report on my desk by the morning and I will buy you a candy bar if you don't say anything bigoted.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:15 am 
 

Most of the time whenever anybody talks about "political correctness" not belonging somewhere, they mean something totally normal and acceptable that most people wouldn't blink at. "Political correctness" is so often just some hot button term for this small fringe to flip out at because they have nothing else going on... and like what in metal is even that "PC" anyway? Bands and artists sometimes advocating for positive changes in the world? My God call the presses.

I mean more likely people bitching about PC in metal just want Nazi bands more accepted though.
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In_Zane
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:33 pm
Posts: 266
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:26 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Bands and artists sometimes advocating for positive changes in the world? My God call the presses

bUt MuH eDgE bRo!!!!!111

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Hexenmacht46290
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:30 pm
Posts: 550
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:26 pm 
 

One of my band mates, at practice, this weekend: “Megadeth is diet Metallica.”
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Zelkiiro
Pounding the world with a fish of steel

Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:30 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:25 pm 
 

Hexenmacht46290 wrote:
One of my band mates, at practice, this weekend: “Megadeth is diet Metallica.”

More like, "Megadeth is like Metallica, if Metallica completely forgot that songs are supposed to be memorable and enjoyable."

Megadeth have just always left me completely cold. Anthrax, too, for that matter, but for different reasons.
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Krist4Lyne
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2022 9:03 am
Posts: 53
Location: France
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:08 pm 
 

Corpsey the Clown wrote:
Melodic death is massively overrated.
Mathcore, slam, power metal and djent all suck.
I don't like Manowar, Helloween or King Diamond.
Darkthrone bore the hell out of me.
Opeth have sucked ever since Heritage.
Portal, Defeated Sanity and Artificial Brain aren't very good.
Political correctness has no place in metal.
And it's actually more fun to talk about metal on RYM than here, which is sad in many ways.

Do you even like metal and why are you even here ?
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Spiral Architect
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:28 am
Posts: 190
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:14 pm 
 

^ Megadeth is a musician's band. I would say that their music appealed to guitar nerds rather than metal fans, that's how I see it. It's a big part of why they never broke into the mainstream like Metallica did. Megadeth were always better musicians but that's not enough, you need to have the songwriting and the mass appeal.

Dave is the best guitarist I've heard when it comes to metal, though. I've never had a deep/broad taste in metal but the one thing I do know is guitarists, and Dave is quite clearly leagues above anyone else in thrash.
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thrashinbatman
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:31 pm
Posts: 1440
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:13 pm 
 

by what standard are we describing "mainstream", here? they have multiple platinum records, their last record debuted at #3 in the US, and they regularly play arenas worldwide. how is that not mainstream?

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Gravetemplar
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:23 pm 
 

The line of what is mainstream and what isn't is blurry but I kind of get what he's saying. My parents know who Metallica are. They have never heard of Megadeth. Metallica just transcend the genre barrier. Everyone knows who they are. Megadeth are a band all metalheads know but probably a lot of people outside of metal have never heard of.

If we go by numbers, Metallica have 19,162,786 monthly listeners on Spotify. Megadeth only 4,103,280 monthly listeners. That's a huge difference.

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Lee Harrison
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Joined: Mon May 30, 2022 6:28 am
Posts: 190
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:12 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Most of the time whenever anybody talks about "political correctness" not belonging somewhere, they mean something totally normal and acceptable that most people wouldn't blink at. "Political correctness" is so often just some hot button term for this small fringe to flip out at because they have nothing else going on... and like what in metal is even that "PC" anyway? Bands and artists sometimes advocating for positive changes in the world? My God call the presses.

I mean more likely people bitching about PC in metal just want Nazi bands more accepted though.


The true problem is that we accept all and is one of big achievement of western civilization but also a weakness
And we pay for it every day…
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Ex El Ex El Ex
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:53 pm
Posts: 277
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:40 pm 
 

Lee Harrison wrote:
The true problem is that we accept all and is one of big achievement of western civilization but also a weakness
And we pay for it every day…

What is this supposed to mean?
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kazhard
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:42 pm
Posts: 369
Location: Québec, Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:53 pm 
 

Lee Harrison wrote:
The true problem is that we accept all and is one of big achievement of western civilization but also a weakness And we pay for it every day…


Uhh, come again? :scratch:
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Thy Shrine
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:37 pm
Posts: 656
Location: Golgotha
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 1:48 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Most of the time whenever anybody talks about "political correctness" not belonging somewhere, they mean something totally normal and acceptable that most people wouldn't blink at. "Political correctness" is so often just some hot button term for this small fringe to flip out at because they have nothing else going on... and like what in metal is even that "PC" anyway? Bands and artists sometimes advocating for positive changes in the world? My God call the presses.

I mean more likely people bitching about PC in metal just want Nazi bands more accepted though.


I agree, I think metal has always inherently been a genre that's more aware of what's wrong in the world more than most other genres, and usually what it seems to me to be is that I think people just become brainwashed from an early age with all these expectations of success, but it's never about your own internal happiness or wellbeing, could be just me, but I kinda grew up around people not really ever truly expressing themselves, and the message I learned was "you're on your own" and I just think that's really what's wrong with the world than whatever unseen "system" or "enemy" that people seem to spend most of the time complaining about, I actually think metal and rap are extremely perceptive forms of social commentary.

Ehh I'm just rambling I suppose
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Lord_Of_Diamonds
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:23 pm
Posts: 1199
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 1:51 am 
 

kazhard wrote:
Lee Harrison wrote:
The true problem is that we accept all and is one of big achievement of western civilization but also a weakness And we pay for it every day…


Uhh, come again? :scratch:

This guy's obviously got problems with English, but from what I understand, he's trying to say that as Westerners we're a fairly accepting society, generally speaking, and that unfortunately means that we've been "accepting" racists and the like. Probably under the pretext of "yeah well, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
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kazhard
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Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:42 pm
Posts: 369
Location: Québec, Canada
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:11 am 
 

Right, gotcha.
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Lee Harrison
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Joined: Mon May 30, 2022 6:28 am
Posts: 190
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:22 am 
 

Lord_Of_Diamonds wrote:
kazhard wrote:
Lee Harrison wrote:
The true problem is that we accept all and is one of big achievement of western civilization but also a weakness And we pay for it every day…


Uhh, come again? :scratch:

This guy's obviously got problems with English, but from what I understand, he's trying to say that as Westerners we're a fairly accepting society, generally speaking, and that unfortunately means that we've been "accepting" racists and the like. Probably under the pretext of "yeah well, that's just, like, your opinion, man."

Yes sorry English is not my native grammar…

We tolerate nazism and fascism in society despite they being against the laws,they make their parties,organization.
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HeavenDuff
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Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
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Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:49 am 
 

Spiral Architect wrote:
^ Megadeth is a musician's band. I would say that their music appealed to guitar nerds rather than metal fans, that's how I see it. It's a big part of why they never broke into the mainstream like Metallica did. Megadeth were always better musicians but that's not enough, you need to have the songwriting and the mass appeal.

Dave is the best guitarist I've heard when it comes to metal, though. I've never had a deep/broad taste in metal but the one thing I do know is guitarists, and Dave is quite clearly leagues above anyone else in thrash.


Megadeth does have more of an appeal for guitar nerds then Metallica, but not like some obscure shred guy, and more like a Children of Bodom. No songwriting? Have you guys ever heard Peace Sells, Take No Prisoners, Devils Island, Holy Wars, Rust in Peace, Wake Up Dead, Kick the Chair, Symphony of Destruction or Blackmail the Universe? All these tracks, and many more are quite memorable.

My issue with your take, Spiral Architect, is not so much that you aren't right about Metallica breaking into the mainstream much more then Megadeth, but it is with the fact that you seem to be implying that Metallica got more into the mainstream during and because of their thrash metal era material. However, the big breakthrough for Metallica in terms of commercial success and popularity in the mainstream was the black album. And while Megadeth tried to emulate this and failed miserably, the disparity of mainstream success between the two really doesn't have much to do with thrash metal era Metallica being that much more accessible then Megadeth.

Lee Harrison wrote:
We tolerate nazism and fascism in society despite they being against the laws,they make their parties,organization.


We elect them as presidents, let them chose ultraconservative judges who will fuck up the country for decades to come, etc. etc. etc.

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Spiral Architect
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:28 am
Posts: 190
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:18 am 
 

^ I won't debate anything you said as I feel like you got my point, but Metallica was always much bigger as far as I know. I'm only 31 so I wasn't around for any of what we're discussing ( :lol: ) but stuff like Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets and AJFO was huge compared to Megadeth, let's be honest.

If it wasn't "mainstream" then it was as close as a band playing metal that heavy could possibly be.
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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 7039
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:35 am 
 

Spiral Architect wrote:
^ Megadeth is a musician's band. I would say that their music appealed to guitar nerds rather than metal fans, that's how I see it.


Aren't you talking about Yngwie Malmsteen instead? :lol:

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HeavenDuff
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Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
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Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:42 am 
 

Spiral Architect wrote:
^ I won't debate anything you said as I feel like you got my point, but Metallica was always much bigger as far as I know. I'm only 31 so I wasn't around for any of what we're discussing ( :lol: ) but stuff like Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets and AJFO was huge compared to Megadeth, let's be honest.

If it wasn't "mainstream" then it was as close as a band playing metal that heavy could possibly be.


Mainstreamness and popularity are hard to debate, but I feel that it's quite impossible to pin the differences in popularity between the two on "Megadeth is guitar nerds music, and Metallica has more mainstream appeal". Metallica were also there before Megadeth and had the opportunity of releasing Kill Em' All and Ride the Lightning, establishing themselves as an iconic thrash metal band, before Megadeth was could release their first.

Maybe we can agree on Master of Puppets, which is basically the most balanced thrash metal release you can have in terms of keeping it true to the genre while also making it more accessible.

colin040 wrote:
Spiral Architect wrote:
^ Megadeth is a musician's band. I would say that their music appealed to guitar nerds rather than metal fans, that's how I see it.


Aren't you talking about Yngwie Malmsteen instead? :lol:


I didn't mention him by name, but that's the guy I was thinking about when I said that Megadeth really isn't music for guitar nerds the same as shred. Sure, Megadeth is more technical then Metallica, and Friedman/Mustaine were one of the most impressive duos in thrash, but were not talking about Steve Vai or Malmsteen or whatever. And you can make good music with good songwriting AND have technically proficient musicians. Michael Romeo of Symphony X is another example.

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Dungeon_Vic
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:00 am
Posts: 1405
Location: Greece
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:43 am 
 

Metallica went gold with Master of Puppets (no video or radio support - but for local metal shows) and the tour with Ozzy helped a lot. Justice went platinum (and Master soon followed). Of course the huge break was TBA but at that point they were already selling millions.
The rest of the big 4 were considerably behind, which is normal. For comparison, Anthrax went gold with I'm the Man, Slayer first went gold with Divine Intervention (yes, Anthrax sold more than Slayer in the 80s).

Megadeth was on the Anthrax level, more or less. They did follow Metallica's lead with Countdown although I consider their change smoother - and while they did not release a #1 album that has outsold every other album since its release - but to have a #2 album in all of the US in 1992 IS fucking mainstream - and Symphony of Destruction is as known as any metal song. Of course Megadeth is known for their musicianship but also for their KICKASS albums and that includes Peace Sells, RiP and Countdown (their most successful).
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thrashinbatman
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:31 pm
Posts: 1440
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:09 am 
 

they totally would have gone #1 with Countdown had it not been released while Achy Breaky Heart was at it's peak. they were one of the few to successfully transition into that more mainstream style and keep their popularity through the 90s, which the grand majority of thrash bands could not say they did. obviously they've never been Metallica big, but saying, "your band isnt as popular as the most popular metal band in the world!" seems unfair to me.

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HeavenDuff
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Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
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Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:12 am 
 

Dungeon_Vic wrote:
Megadeth was on the Anthrax level, more or less. They did follow Metallica's lead with Countdown although I consider their change smoother - and while they did not release a #1 album that has outsold every other album since its release - but to have a #2 album in all of the US in 1992 IS fucking mainstream - and Symphony of Destruction is as known as any metal song. Of course Megadeth is known for their musicianship but also for their KICKASS albums and that includes Peace Sells, RiP and Countdown (their most successful).


I was not thinking of Countdown when I said that Megadeth failed when they attempted to be more mainstream (I was thinking more of Risk and, to a lesser extent, Cryptic Writings) but it's true that it actually was basically their answer to the black album, and it was indeed smoother. It has a lot of memorable tracks, solid riffing and bangers.

Still. By that point, both Metallica and Megadeth were past their prime, creatively speaking.

It's crazy how long that Metallica vs Megadeth war lasted though. Even in the mid 2000's, me and my friends were team Megadeth all the way, hahaha! Nowadays I spend much more time with Metallica. But at the time, you had to pick just one!

thrashinbatman wrote:
"your band isnt as popular as the most popular metal band in the world!" seems unfair to me.


Also this.

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des91
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:51 pm
Posts: 279
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:13 am 
 

^^ Yes, I see what you’re saying. But is the alternative, like constant violence in many Western countries then? Since so many countries really do have a Nazi/racism problem?

Edit: this was in reply to the Italian person here.

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Twisted_Psychology
Metal freak

Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 8:22 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:30 am 
 

The only thing that kept Megadeth from getting bigger in the mainstream was Mustaine's voice. He truly is his own worst enemy.
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In_Zane
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:33 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:43 am 
 

Twisted_Psychology wrote:
The only thing that kept Megadeth from getting bigger in the mainstream was Mustaine's voice. He truly is his own worst enemy.

I wonder how they would've sounded like with something more akin to, say... Petrozza?
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pressingtoplead13
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:05 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:52 am 
 

Sodom and early Sepultura are drastically better than both Megadeth and Anthrax.

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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:59 am 
 

pressingtoplead13 wrote:
Sodom and early Sepultura are drastically better than both Megadeth and Anthrax.


Sodom is good for a few albums, but they barely ever deviated from their formula, and it gets a bit tiresome to my ear. As for Sepultura, if we are talking Beneath the Remains, yes it is amazing and ranks among the best of the genre. Arise and Schizophrenia are also solid, but not quite as much as BtR. Megadeth has Rust in Peace and Peace Sells, and also The System Has Failed and Countdown to Extinction. Altogether, they have a more rounded up discography but they have their lows just as much as Sepultura. And Anthrax was always very tame in my opinion and doesn't hold a candle to the best thrash metal bands.

So if I had to rank these bands, focusing on their best material it would go something like this.
Megadeth = Sepultura > Sodom > Anthrax

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Gravetemplar
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:19 pm 
 

At least we can all agree Anthrax are pretty bad. Imho Slayer are clearly the best thrash band of the 80s, there isn't even a competition.

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In_Zane
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:33 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:20 pm 
 

The only good album with Anthrax, imo, is their first one.

I can't stand Joey Belladonna for the life of me.
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Dungeon_Vic
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:39 pm 
 

I can't agree. Anthrax is one of my favorite bands growing up and their style and ethos was also very dear to me too. First five are a classic run as any, granted I love other runs more, from all big four and outside.

I really like Sound of White Noise although the rest of Bushthrax doesn't do anything for me. Only is indeed perfect, like Hetfield said.

For all Kings is a modern classic for me, better than all the other three bigs.
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pressingtoplead13
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:05 pm
Posts: 628
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:59 pm 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
At least we can all agree Anthrax are pretty bad. Imho Slayer are clearly the best thrash band of the 80s, there isn't even a competition.


I'm not gonna say Anthrax are bad outright, they just not really my cup of tea. Slayer on the other hand, i'm in full agreement, the only thrash band that is even close IMO is Sepultura but they didnt have nearly as long of a good run, but they peak is close to Slayer's peak.

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Slater922
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 1:10 pm 
 

It just feels weird that Anthrax is considered one of the Big 4 in thrash, yet they easily have the most forgettable discography along with Iced Earth. Sure, they have Spreading the Disease and Among the Living, but those are the only two records that I consider to be memorable. And even they pale in comparison to the other three bands. And don't even get me started on this trash... :ugh:

If you ask me, Exodus or Overkill should've took Anthrax's place in the Big 4, as their discographies are much stronger and are generally better than anything Anthrax has come up with lately.
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des91
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Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:51 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 1:18 pm 
 

Anthrax gets way too much hate, Spreading and Among are fucking bangers. Just because it’s not Extreme Thrash Metal or maybe even not as heavy as Metallica, does not mean it sucks. I mean, those albums are very finely written, with fantastic fucking songs on them.

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ZenoMarx
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Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:38 am
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 1:25 pm 
 

Megadeth desperately needed someone to edit their ideas and songs. Desperately, with a capital D. 4000 ideas thrown at every song. The moment they find something the listener can lock onto, they move onto something else. It never struck me as progressive as much as it did lack of editing skill. Every idea was a good idea and should be included. Which lends to Spiral Architect's post about them being a musician's band. Couldn't get out of the way of their own egos. Nuclear Assault was sort of like that too, but I could get into Nuclear Assault. Just because you have an idea doesn't mean you should use it.

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I Am the Law
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2003 1:46 pm
Posts: 558
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:10 pm 
 

des91 wrote:
Anthrax gets way too much hate, Spreading and Among are fucking bangers. Just because it’s not Extreme Thrash Metal or maybe even not as heavy as Metallica, does not mean it sucks. I mean, those albums are very finely written, with fantastic fucking songs on them.


Yeah those albums are better than about 99% of thrash albums released in the past 30 years. They might not be as fast or intense as Darkness Descends or something like that but they are good.

And no, I am not an Anthrax fanboy. 18 year old me didn't know what to pick for a username so I picked a random song that I liked.

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