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Lee Harrison
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon May 30, 2022 6:28 am
Posts: 178
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:15 pm 
 

des91 wrote:
^^ Yes, I see what you’re saying. But is the alternative, like constant violence in many Western countries then? Since so many countries really do have a Nazi/racism problem?

Edit: this was in reply to the Italian person here.

I think that racism/nazism/fascism they are fought only with education and study but I don’t have a solution…

Mine was just a bitter observation…

That all…

Return IT with music that is better

I think Metallica peak is And Justice for all after that they release only mediocre or at least sufficient albums
Megadeth have more consistency
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King_of_Arnor
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:35 pm
Posts: 413
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:45 pm 
 

Metal Church should have as much recognition as Exodus, Overkill, Testament and the other second-tier thrash bands. Even if they weren't full-on thrash and had more USPM elements, they formed before any of the Big 4 came together and were an important part of the thrash scene touring with the major bands. The Dark is probably their thrashiest album, while Blessing in Disguise is more progressive, but the s/t debut is a USPM masterpiece. Also in terms of commercial success, they were at least on par with Testament in the late 80's going by album chart positions.

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HeavenDuff
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Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 3459
Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:00 pm 
 

In_Zane wrote:
The only good album with Anthrax, imo, is their first one.

I can't stand Joey Belladonna for the life of me.


Yeah, I'm revisiting Among the Living right now, and the guy's vocals are grating. The music is pretty good otherwise. But damn...

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pressingtoplead13
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:05 pm
Posts: 627
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:35 pm 
 

Agreed I’m not a belldonna fan, much prefer Bush but the music wasn’t as good then. Honestly I rarely listen to them but my most played by them is probably “bring the noise” ft. Public enemy. Nuclear Winter by Sodom and “Mass Hypnosis” by Sepultura beat out anything done by any of the big 4 artists not named Slayer. I might even throw in “.44 Caliber Brain Surgery” by Demolition Hammer as well.

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LongHairIsSoFuckingCool
Edgy Metal Noob Catchphrase Dispenser

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 350
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:35 pm 
 

Anthrax is for "open-minded" metal fans.
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Gravetemplar
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Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
Posts: 3853
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:53 pm 
 

Everything Is Fire is my least favorite Ulcerate album (ok, Of Fracture and Failure is worse but you all get my point).

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Ex El Ex El Ex
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:53 pm
Posts: 276
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:34 pm 
 

I guess my one hot take here is that early Anthrax up to Persistence of Time is actually pretty fucking good. In fact, I find myself spinning the latter much more often than Megadeth's or Slayer's late 80's/early 90's offerings (with the exception of Rust in Peace, perhaps). They had the second best drummer out of the Big Four in Charlie Benante and a tighter than tight rhythm section, there's a lot of fun to be had there. Funnily enough, they're much easier to connect with now that I'm not an angry teenager anymore, so their more anthemic brand of New York thrash is something I find myself in the mood to enjoy much more often than Slayer's darkness or Megadeth's noodly guitar pyrotechnics.
LongHairIsSoFuckingCool wrote:
Anthrax is for "open-minded" metal fans.

Does this actually mean anything?
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pressingtoplead13
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:05 pm
Posts: 627
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:38 pm 
 

Ex El Ex El Ex wrote:
I guess my one hot take here is that early Anthrax up to Persistence of Time is actually pretty fucking good. In fact, I find myself spinning the latter much more often than Megadeth's or Slayer's late 80's/early 90's offerings (with the exception of Rust in Peace, perhaps). They had the second best drummer out of the Big Four in Charlie Benante and a tighter than tight rhythm section, there's a lot of fun to be had there. Funnily enough, they're much easier to connect with now that I'm not an angry teenager anymore, so their more anthemic brand of New York thrash is something I find myself in the mood to enjoy much more often than Slayer's darkness or Megadeth's noodly guitar pyrotechnics.
LongHairIsSoFuckingCool wrote:
Anthrax is for "open-minded" metal fans.

Does this actually mean anything?


It’s not about Slayer’s “darkness” to me it’s about their riffs and their energy. “Hell Awaits” “Raining Blood” “War Ensemble” just laced with great riffs and high energy.

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LilTito
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 3:10 pm
Posts: 197
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:30 pm 
 

Idk how unpopular this is, but metal can be just as awful and garbage as any other music genre out there

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Ex El Ex El Ex
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:53 pm
Posts: 276
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:20 pm 
 

pressingtoplead13 wrote:
It’s not about Slayer’s “darkness” to me it’s about their riffs and their energy. “Hell Awaits” “Raining Blood” “War Ensemble” just laced with great riffs and high energy.

Oh, it absolutely is man, I'm just not often in the mood for it nowadays. My taste for metal has shifted a fair bit over the years, so I don't really connect as much with the really aggressive stuff anymore.
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CreepingDeath16
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2021 12:49 am
Posts: 331
Location: Hyperborea
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:41 am 
 

LilTito wrote:
Idk how unpopular this is, but metal can be just as awful and garbage as any other music genre out there

This should be agreed to be objectively true, there's awful shit in every genre. Subjectively even moreso in metal: having listened to metal most of my life, I find I have less patience for mediocre, technically competent but substanceless bands.
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LongHairIsSoFuckingCool
Edgy Metal Noob Catchphrase Dispenser

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 350
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:42 am 
 

Ex El Ex El Ex wrote:
Does this actually mean anything?

It means that Anthrax fans are same type of metalhead who complains about "elitists" a lot. These types of people tend to also like metalcore, deathcore, and mallcore and will get really insecure and bitchy if you point out that these things (Most of the time, for the first two.) aren't metal. They also support adding elements that don't go well together from other genres into metal. An example of this is how Anthrax fans defended the band having rapping in some of their songs.

That's how I would define "open-minded" metal fans.
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MetlaNZ
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:45 pm
Posts: 1649
Location: Lost in Necropolis
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:36 am 
 

LongHairIsSoFuckingCool wrote:
Ex El Ex El Ex wrote:
Does this actually mean anything?

It means that Anthrax fans are same type of metalhead who complains about "elitists" a lot. These types of people tend to also like metalcore, deathcore, and mallcore and will get really insecure and bitchy if you point out that these things (Most of the time, for the first two.) aren't metal. They also support adding elements that don't go well together from other genres into metal. An example of this is how Anthrax fans defended the band having rapping in some of their songs.

That's how I would define "open-minded" metal fans.

What a load of fuckin bollocks.

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Paka01
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 12:34 pm
Posts: 419
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:00 am 
 

I have always liked Belladonna. For me, he was non-thrash vocalist in a thrash band and it sounds great. Anthrax has always been my go-to thrash band when I'm not in the mood for something not too aggressive. I don't know, it just clicks in a right way.
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Dungeon_Vic
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:00 am
Posts: 1405
Location: Greece
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:59 am 
 

MetlaNZ wrote:
LongHairIsSoFuckingCool wrote:
Ex El Ex El Ex wrote:
Does this actually mean anything?

It means that Anthrax fans are same type of metalhead who complains about "elitists" a lot. These types of people tend to also like metalcore, deathcore, and mallcore and will get really insecure and bitchy if you point out that these things (Most of the time, for the first two.) aren't metal. They also support adding elements that don't go well together from other genres into metal. An example of this is how Anthrax fans defended the band having rapping in some of their songs.

That's how I would define "open-minded" metal fans.

What a load of fuckin bollocks.


Nonsense. And that last argument is gatekeeping 101, some dude telling the world what goes with metal and what doesn't, what is true metal and what isn't, which music is real music and which is garbage. I was 13 and most certainly a small metal dude through and through but I appreciated Anthrax and the sentiment behind 31 Flavors, all the way. And the tour with Public Enemy speaks louder than any "message" in a song.

But at the end of the day, Medusa or Armed and Dangerous are molten hot lava metal and I pity those who can't appreciate them. :P
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matras
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:01 am
Posts: 1204
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:15 am 
 

LongHairIsSoFuckingCool wrote:
Ex El Ex El Ex wrote:
Does this actually mean anything?

It means that Anthrax fans are same type of metalhead who complains about "elitists" a lot. These types of people tend to also like metalcore, deathcore, and mallcore and will get really insecure and bitchy if you point out that these things (Most of the time, for the first two.) aren't metal. They also support adding elements that don't go well together from other genres into metal. An example of this is how Anthrax fans defended the band having rapping in some of their songs.

That's how I would define "open-minded" metal fans.


Talk about being insecure :lol:

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Spiral Architect
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:28 am
Posts: 182
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:39 am 
 

I love Anthrax :???: They're fun and they thrashed pretty hard when they wanted to. Among the Living has some classics too even if it's not as good as the earlier stuff. Caught in a Mosh, NFL, I am the Law... some real bangers.
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Lee Harrison
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon May 30, 2022 6:28 am
Posts: 178
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:48 am 
 

Among the living is fantastic and one of best thrash album all time…

Totentanz of Liszt is the first black metal song….
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HeavenDuff
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Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 3459
Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:18 am 
 

LilTito wrote:
Idk how unpopular this is, but metal can be just as awful and garbage as any other music genre out there


Are you saying that there is bad metal? Because that's pretty obvious. So most likely not an unpopular opinion.

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MARSDUDE
Shitposter

Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:17 pm
Posts: 2229
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:39 am 
 

LongHairIsSoFuckingCool wrote:
Ex El Ex El Ex wrote:
Does this actually mean anything?

It means that Anthrax fans are same type of metalhead who complains about "elitists" a lot. These types of people tend to also like metalcore, deathcore, and mallcore and will get really insecure and bitchy if you point out that these things (Most of the time, for the first two.) aren't metal. They also support adding elements that don't go well together from other genres into metal. An example of this is how Anthrax fans defended the band having rapping in some of their songs.

That's how I would define "open-minded" metal fans.


This is a sig-worthy post. Have you ever actually listened to Anthrax? Because you seem to have very strange ideas about what music they play. Just because they apparently take music less seriously than you doesn't mean they aren't serious musicians who put out some of the finest thrash albums of all time.

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Spiral Architect
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:28 am
Posts: 182
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:06 am 
 

^ It's weird because Anthrax couldn't be further away from stuff like metalcore, etc.

If anything they directly influenced bands like Municipal Waste who put out some of the most down-to-earth, fun-loving thrash you can find. It's just such a bizarre take...
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JCP524
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Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:37 pm
Posts: 58
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:11 am 
 

Spreading the Disease is one of the best albums of all time.

Among the Living is also really good.

Persistence of Time is one the most overrated albums ever. Just not good. Boring.

Blue Oyster Cult is darker and creepier than Black Sabbath

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Ex El Ex El Ex
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:53 pm
Posts: 276
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:58 am 
 

LongHairIsSoFuckingCool wrote:
It means that Anthrax fans are same type of metalhead who complains about "elitists" a lot. These types of people tend to also like metalcore, deathcore, and mallcore and will get really insecure and bitchy if you point out that these things (Most of the time, for the first two.) aren't metal. They also support adding elements that don't go well together from other genres into metal. An example of this is how Anthrax fans defended the band having rapping in some of their songs.

That's how I would define "open-minded" metal fans.

If it makes you feel any better, I promise you will grow out of caring about this shit in a few years.

Unless you're, like, a fourty year old making this post, in which case I offer my condolences.
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Ace_Rimmer
Veteran

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:30 am
Posts: 2893
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:14 pm 
 

Paka01 wrote:
I have always liked Belladonna. For me, he was non-thrash vocalist in a thrash band and it sounds great. Anthrax has always been my go-to thrash band when I'm not in the mood for something not too aggressive. I don't know, it just clicks in a right way.



Great riffs, great songs, great drums. I think Joey fits like a glove, but I also enjoy the Bush era as well. Charlie just has a knack for writing catchy metal.

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LongHairIsSoFuckingCool
Edgy Metal Noob Catchphrase Dispenser

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 350
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:43 pm 
 

Ex El Ex El Ex wrote:
LongHairIsSoFuckingCool wrote:
It means that Anthrax fans are same type of metalhead who complains about "elitists" a lot. These types of people tend to also like metalcore, deathcore, and mallcore and will get really insecure and bitchy if you point out that these things (Most of the time, for the first two.) aren't metal. They also support adding elements that don't go well together from other genres into metal. An example of this is how Anthrax fans defended the band having rapping in some of their songs.

That's how I would define "open-minded" metal fans.

If it makes you feel any better, I promise you will grow out of caring about this shit in a few years.

Unless you're, like, a fourty year old making this post, in which case I offer my condolences.

I don't really care. I just like making fun of those people.
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des91
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:51 pm
Posts: 278
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:16 pm 
 

Joey’s performance on Spreading the Disease is basically flawless. The notes he hits and holds on there are insane. He has so much heart in passion on that album, I just don’t know how anyone can hate it. I will acknowledge that Spreading (and Fistfull) are more Speed Metal than Thrash but who cares, it’s amazing. His performance on Among is less amazing but still pretty good. But the music makes up for it.

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LongHairIsSoFuckingCool
Edgy Metal Noob Catchphrase Dispenser

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 350
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:17 pm 
 

des91 wrote:
Joey’s performance on Spreading the Disease is basically flawless. The notes he hits and holds on there are insane. He has so much heart in passion on that album, I just don’t know how anyone can hate it. I will acknowledge that Spreading (and Fistfull) are more Speed Metal than Thrash but who cares, it’s amazing. His performance on Among is less amazing but still pretty good. But the music makes up for it.

It's just bland. It's not as bad as the vocals on Fistful, but it's not amazing.
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recyclage wrote:
When a labeling of music gets stucked in the past, than germans are still nazi

recyclage wrote:
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Ex El Ex El Ex
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:53 pm
Posts: 276
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:45 pm 
 

LongHairIsSoFuckingCool wrote:
I don't really care. I just like making fun of those people.

Usually, when someone doesn't care about something, they don't write tirades decrying the thing in question, but whatever floats your boat.
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Judas Maiden
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2021 3:56 pm
Posts: 600
Location: Philippines
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:26 pm 
 

That shit of a hot take really typifies the disrespect that Anthrax has garnered compared to the other members of the big 4. I've seen people on message boards through the years question Anthrax's inclusion into the Big 4, downplay their influence and greatness. I think this is because they made a lot of weak albums since 'Sound of White Noise' and they weren't able to sustain their stature as one of the spearheads of the thrash scene. But c'mon, take a listen to 'Gung Ho', 'Among the Living', 'NFL', 'Be All, End All' and if that isn't some furious thrash.

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In_Zane
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:33 pm
Posts: 266
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:38 pm 
 

Judas Maiden wrote:
That shit of a hot take really typifies the disrespect that Anthrax has garnered compared to the other members of the big 4. I've seen people on message boards through the years question Anthrax's inclusion into the Big 4, downplay their influence and greatness. I think this is because they made a lot of weak albums since 'Sound of White Noise' and they weren't able to sustain their stature as one of the spearheads of the thrash scene. But c'mon, take a listen to 'Gung Ho', 'Among the Living', 'NFL', 'Be All, End All' and if that isn't some furious thrash.

I questioned it as well, but after listening to their first album ''Fistful of Metal'', I can understand why they are part of the Big 4.

I just, personally, dont care at all for anything after the first record.
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Ace_Rimmer
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:44 pm 
 

They are part of the big four because they outsold bands like Testament, Exodus, Overkill, etc by a shitload. They only bands out of that scene they didn't out sell are the other big 4 members.

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Judas Maiden
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2021 3:56 pm
Posts: 600
Location: Philippines
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:55 pm 
 

I think most of those who question Anthrax's inclusion in the Big 4 are from the younger generation. The ones who weren't around yet in the mid to late '80s when thrash was gaining ground and they were one of the forerunners of the sub-genre. When I started listening to thrash in 1989, Anthrax was the second band I discovered and got into (the first being Metallica). And reading metal magazines back then, they were pretty big and influential. Their influence diminished through the years as their weak albums naturally translated to weaker album sales. I liked John Bush on 'Sound of White Noise' but their subsequent material went farther from their thrash roots and was closer to groove metal. The Big Four tour where they reunited with Joey resuscitated their career.

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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:58 pm 
 

Judas Maiden wrote:
I've seen people on message boards through the years question Anthrax's inclusion into the Big 4


This is funny. It just shows that these guys don't know what the Big 4 actually is. You can't "question their inclusion". They were objectively part of the 4 thrash metal bands who sold the most records. It has nothing to do with their influence and greatness. However, it's still very silly to downplay their influence. It doesn't matter if you like them or not, they had a significant impact on the scene and had a lot of influence.

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Judas Maiden
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2021 3:56 pm
Posts: 600
Location: Philippines
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:12 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
Judas Maiden wrote:
I've seen people on message boards through the years question Anthrax's inclusion into the Big 4


This is funny. It just shows that these guys don't know what the Big 4 actually is. You can't "question their inclusion". They were objectively part of the 4 thrash metal bands who sold the most records. It has nothing to do with their influence and greatness. However, it's still very silly to downplay their influence. It doesn't matter if you like them or not, they had a significant impact on the scene and had a lot of influence.


Exactly. Those people were commenting 'why is Anthrax in the Big 4? It should be Testament there!' They had no idea why the Big 4 was called the Big 4 in the first place. This was around the late 2000's and Anthrax was not highly regarded by metal noobs at the time.

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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:44 pm 
 

Judas Maiden wrote:
Exactly. Those people were commenting 'why is Anthrax in the Big 4? It should be Testament there!' They had no idea why the Big 4 was called the Big 4 in the first place. This was around the late 2000's and Anthrax was not highly regarded by metal noobs at the time.


Eh, that's not really where I was going with this. People can dislike Anthrax all they want, that doesn't make them "metal noobs" or whatever. Not to mention that Anthrax, just like Metallica, Sepultura and Slayer, were all guilty of putting out shit music around that time, so a lot of the flak was deserved.

Disliking a band is one thing, but denying their impact, influence, contribution, etc. that's another. One deals with personnal tastes, and the other treads into much less subjective territories. Now of course, it's difficult to measure just how impactful a band was and how much of a legacy they have. But the fact that other bands list Anthrax as an influence and that you can hear distinctive elements of their music in the music of other bands, is proof enough that they were influential, regardless of how much people will try to rewrite history afterward.

LongHairIsSoFuckingCool wrote:
I don't really care. I just like making fun of those people.


And now people are making fun of your edgy take on "open minded" Anthrax fans. The circle is complete.

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thrashinbatman
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:31 pm
Posts: 1438
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:06 pm 
 

Judas Maiden wrote:
HeavenDuff wrote:
Judas Maiden wrote:
I've seen people on message boards through the years question Anthrax's inclusion into the Big 4


This is funny. It just shows that these guys don't know what the Big 4 actually is. You can't "question their inclusion". They were objectively part of the 4 thrash metal bands who sold the most records. It has nothing to do with their influence and greatness. However, it's still very silly to downplay their influence. It doesn't matter if you like them or not, they had a significant impact on the scene and had a lot of influence.


Exactly. Those people were commenting 'why is Anthrax in the Big 4? It should be Testament there!' They had no idea why the Big 4 was called the Big 4 in the first place. This was around the late 2000's and Anthrax was not highly regarded by metal noobs at the time.

the concept of the "Big 4" was a mistake.

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Slater922
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:24 pm
Posts: 1654
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:41 pm 
 

thrashinbatman wrote:
the concept of the "Big 4" was a mistake.

Yeah. In fact, I'd argue we'd be better off if we didn't have a Big 4 in thrash at all, because all it's doing is complicating things with the debate on Anthrax.
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LongHairIsSoFuckingCool
Edgy Metal Noob Catchphrase Dispenser

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 350
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:01 pm 
 

What debate? They suck. They arguably have had a really bad influence on thrash. Look at all of the pizza thrash of the 2000s. A lot of those bands took inspiration from them.
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BastardHead
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:34 pm 
 

An absolutely gargantuan majority of the shitty pizza and beer rethrash bands of the late aughts took their sound and look more from Exodus and the crossover scene. I really think like half of the internet backlash against Anthrax is motivated by the dumbest knee-jerk impulse of kids who can easily look up more extreme contemporaries and assume that anything lighter than Slayer is lame by default and also somehow Anthrax's fault. I understand not liking them, but man y'all're really fuckin' stretching.

Jeez basically everything you've said in this thread is shit that I said when I was 15. 15 year olds are fucking morons.
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Ace_Rimmer
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:36 pm 
 

No doubt about the Exodus influence. When I listen to most of the thrash revival I get much more Exodus out of that than any other classic thrash band.

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