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Lagartija
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Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:27 am
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Location: Catalunya
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:22 pm 
 

So I finally got round to properly listening to 'Domination', 'Formulas fatal to the flesh', 'Gateways to annihilation' and 'Heretic' in chronological order and paying full attention while checking out reviews for each one to pick up on all the details.
My knowledge of Morbid Angel up to this point was limited to A, B and C, and I totally skipped these later records before getting into newer bands that came after.
I was wondering how much MA really influenced death metal as we know it today, and more specifically that slow to mid-paced, churning, swampy guitar riff style.
While they are often cited as one of the main influences on pretty much everything that came after, looking at the dates I see the first two Incantation albums predate 'Domination', which is where MA and Trey really started experimenting with that style. Immolation defined their style at about the same time, so surely it would be more accurate to say Incantation pioneered that style, with Morbid Angel and Immolation following closely behind? Or is Trey's style really that different and unique compared to the guitarists in those other bands, so their influence is in fact totally different?

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LongHairIsSoFuckingCool
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Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:22 am
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:35 pm 
 

No Altars of Madness?
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robotniq
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Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:08 am
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 4:29 pm 
 

"Altars of Madness" is (probably) the most influential death metal album of all time. It marked the point when death metal divorced itself from thrash and punk and just turned into some warped, curvelinear monstrosity. Yes, Possessed had already done the pacemaking, but that record took it to the next level.

This would have been the case regardless of whether they recorded anything else. I'm actually not a huge fan of any of their other records.

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Gravetemplar
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Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 4:33 pm 
 

robotiq wrote:
"Altars of Madness" is (probably) the most influential death metal album of all time. It marked the point when death metal divorced itself from thrash and punk and just turned into some warped, curvelinear monstrosity. Yes, Possessed had already done the pacemaking, but that record took it to the next level.

This would have been the case regardless of whether they recorded anything else. I'm actually not a huge fan of any of their other records.

This. The rest of their albums are so-so but Altars of Madness will always be the most influential death metal album and their best.

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77hjrttfred
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Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:15 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:20 pm 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
The rest of their albums are so-so but Altars of Madness will always be the most influential death metal album and their best.


C'mon, do you really think Blessed Are The Sick and Covenant are so-so albums? Both of those albums did well in the recent 90's poll, with Covenant making the top 20.

I also think that albums such as "Gateways" ..." and "Formulas ..." are very well regarded nowadays. Even 'Domination' has sort of grown in stature over the years. You can certainly argue that 'Altars' is their best album, but there is a lot of great stuff beyond that album.

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Oxenkiller
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:42 pm 
 

The most influential thing about Morbid Angel to me is Trey Azagthoth's "wah-wah pedal freakout" guitar playing style. That is a style all unto it's own. But yeah, "Altars of Madness" and to a lesser extent "Blessed are the Sick" and Covenant are all hugely influential and ground-breaking albums.

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Gravetemplar
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:48 pm 
 

77hjrttfred wrote:
Gravetemplar wrote:
The rest of their albums are so-so but Altars of Madness will always be the most influential death metal album and their best.


C'mon, do you really think Blessed Are The Sick and Covenant are so-so albums? Both of those albums did well in the recent 90's poll, with Covenant making the top 20.

I also think that albums such as "Gateways" ..." and "Formulas ..." are very well regarded nowadays. Even 'Domination' has sort of grown in stature over the years. You can certainly argue that 'Altars' is their best album, but there is a lot of great stuff beyond that album.

I really don't think those albums are even remotely close to being as good as Blessed Are the Sick.

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Sunioj_Paul
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Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 4:46 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:54 pm 
 

I think their most influential album is Covenant by far. Sure, Altars kicked off the death metal explosion but its was the Covenant style that was to be the biggest in death metal especially from the late 90s onwards. Covenant had a particular style that tons of bands have copied. That 7 string tremolo picking style has been the most popular style ever since.

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Slater922
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:24 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 6:02 pm 
 

robotiq wrote:
"Altars of Madness" is (probably) the most influential death metal album of all time. It marked the point when death metal divorced itself from thrash and punk and just turned into some warped, curvelinear monstrosity. Yes, Possessed had already done the pacemaking, but that record took it to the next level.

Let's not forget that the album was also liked within the Norwegian black metal scene along with Deicide's eponymous debut.
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King_of_Arnor
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 6:49 pm 
 

Blessed has recently been my favourite MA album and I think it's the perfect followup to Altars. They became more musically mature, complex and multi-dimensional, showing that death metal wasn't just about how fast or heavy you played. I could see it potentially being a big influence on tech-death in particular.
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MetlaNZ
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 7:04 pm 
 

King_of_Arnor wrote:
Blessed has recently been my favourite MA album and I think it's the perfect followup to Altars. They became more musically mature, complex and multi-dimensional, showing that death metal wasn't just about how fast or heavy you played. I could see it potentially being a big influence on tech-death in particular.

Fully agree with you. In fact when Covenant came out I have to admit I was disappointed with how straight forward it was and it seemed like a step backwards and a very safe album (Richard Brunelle leaving didn't help), kinda like The End Complete following Cause Of Death in that regard. But like The End Complete it won me over because the songs are so fuckin good. Still, it's my 3rd favourite of theirs, the first 2 albums are equal 1st for me.

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King_of_Arnor
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 7:57 pm 
 

MetlaNZ wrote:
Fully agree with you. In fact when Covenant came out I have to admit I was disappointed with how straight forward it was and it seemed like a step backwards and a very safe album (Richard Brunelle leaving didn't help), kinda like The End Complete following Cause Of Death in that regard. But like The End Complete it won me over because the songs are so fuckin good. Still, it's my 3rd favourite of theirs, the first 2 albums are equal 1st for me.

I'm generally in the same boat as you, Covenant is still excellent but it just doesn't wow me like their first two.
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Aldrahn333
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Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 7:28 pm
Posts: 477
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:11 pm 
 

That G album is also fucking awesome, filthy rich in almost every death metal flavor, but maybe people tends to underestimate it because of the modern, almost plastic sound production. But underneath is hidden a true gem. And the vocals are as good as in Vincent era. Tucker was/is really the excellent choice.

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~Guest 1452000
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:28 am
Posts: 260
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:19 pm 
 

Hell yeah Gateways is amazing. Slow and devastating, inconceivably heavy, it's what got me into appreciating death metal (still my least explored genre, though.)

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Ace_Rimmer
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:30 am
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:22 pm 
 

King_of_Arnor wrote:
MetlaNZ wrote:
Fully agree with you. In fact when Covenant came out I have to admit I was disappointed with how straight forward it was and it seemed like a step backwards and a very safe album (Richard Brunelle leaving didn't help), kinda like The End Complete following Cause Of Death in that regard. But like The End Complete it won me over because the songs are so fuckin good. Still, it's my 3rd favourite of theirs, the first 2 albums are equal 1st for me.

I'm generally in the same boat as you, Covenant is still excellent but it just doesn't wow me like their first two.


Yep, for me the first two go back and forth in my mind as the best MA album, and while I like C, I find it to be a big step down. Honestly I prefer Domination to Covenant.

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77hjrttfred
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:15 pm
Posts: 411
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:40 pm 
 

Spiral Architect wrote:
Hell yeah Gateways is amazing. Slow and devastating, inconceivably heavy, it's what got me into appreciating death metal (still my least explored genre, though.)


Yeah, I agree. A really heavy and dark album. For some reason, I avoided that album for a while. I'm glad I came to my senses and gave it a proper listen. I also got to say I really quite like Domination as well. It took a while but it finally clicked for me. Maybe not their best, but definitely a worthwhile listen.

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nasierszyca
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2015 1:38 pm
Posts: 73
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 6:56 am 
 

Morbid Angel...legend,influential etc
but WHY there is nothing with Trey on YT,about his playing?
Many guitarists talk about techniques,harmonies,composition
even beginners talks more than Trey!!

I saw few old vhs fragments with him but just quick lick,no talking,goodbye :/

Legendary MA...

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kovner1972
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:33 pm
Posts: 435
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:44 am 
 

'Domination' will always remain my go-to Morbid Angel album; the one I most enjoy, the darkest, most menacing, most melodic of them all. I have never understood the appeal 'Altars of Madness' has had on listeners and why it is praised so much and so often; to me it is one of MA's least revisited albums, as there's nothing spectacular there AFAIC, slightly better than the musical cliche called 'Abominations Of Desolation.

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Sunioj_Paul
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Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 4:46 pm
Posts: 160
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:05 am 
 

King_of_Arnor wrote:
Blessed has recently been my favourite MA album and I think it's the perfect followup to Altars. They became more musically mature, complex and multi-dimensional, showing that death metal wasn't just about how fast or heavy you played. I could see it potentially being a big influence on tech-death in particular.


It's interesting that side B of Blessed are all songs from their demos and not new material too. Abominations and The Ancient Ones don't sound like the same band who recorded Altars even though they were written before that album came out. Rumour has it that Blessed was meant to be an EP but Earache wanted it to be a full album so they used the aforementioned demo songs.

Fall From Grace is about as far from Altars as they could have got, totally progressive with loads of riffs, time changes, different sections and vocal styles. The title track is also obviously a move away from the Altars style too. I think that because they used a mixture of new songs and old demo material it makes Blessed a pretty unique listen in their catalogue. It sounds like Covenant was the first album they wrote with a particular style in mind for the whole album, apart from Angel of Disease which is also an old song and for this reason sounds out of place on the album.

Domination is kind of like South of Heaven for me in the fact that it doesn't have a style but all the songs sound pretty much different from each other and makes each song stand out more. The songwriting on Domination is spectacular, so many different styles of riffs and songs. Formulas is one of the finest death metal albums ever recorded in my opinion, absolutely devastating from start to finish but I think it was Gateways that had more of an influence in the 2000s with Behemoth being an example for a while.

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Denial of Life
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:14 pm 
 

D, F and G feel a lot more influential to me on some of the weirder or more space-y kinds of death metal. Mithras/Sarpanitum, Blood Incantation, even Gojira are some notable ones I can think of that pretty clearly take from that era. I don’t think there’s too much similarity in that era of MA to Incantation beyond going slow sometimes (and Immolation sound totally different from Incantation, never really got that comparison).

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CreepingDeath16
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:57 am 
 

I don't know about influence but FCDKGAHB. (There is no I.)
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MalignantTyrant
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:24 pm 
 

Covenant is my favorite MA album, but apparently I'm in the minority. Altars of Madness to me is more of a prototype blackened death metal album.

You can't tell me you don't hear it in songs like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YekrYMy--vo
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joppek
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:30 pm 
 

CreepingDeath16 wrote:
I don't know about influence but FCDKGAHB. (There is no I.)


i can't figure out if this is supposed to be ascending or descending order - doesn't seem to make any sense in either direction :scratch:
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CreepingDeath16
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:12 pm 
 

joppek wrote:
CreepingDeath16 wrote:
I don't know about influence but FCDKGAHB. (There is no I.)


i can't figure out if this is supposed to be ascending or descending order - doesn't seem to make any sense in either direction :scratch:

And which is good and which is bad, ascending (to heaven?) or descending (to hell?)?
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SladeCraven
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:13 pm 
 

Slater922 wrote:
robotiq wrote:
"Altars of Madness" is (probably) the most influential death metal album of all time. It marked the point when death metal divorced itself from thrash and punk and just turned into some warped, curvelinear monstrosity. Yes, Possessed had already done the pacemaking, but that record took it to the next level.

Let's not forget that the album was also liked within the Norwegian black metal scene along with Deicide's eponymous debut.


Why do you think this was, out of curiosity? Is it something as simple as those two albums having Satanic theming as opposed to gore theming or does it go deeper than that? I'm sure it isn't just one thing or element, I'm just curious as to why those two albums were liked while others of a similar ilk were not.
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Lagartija
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Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:27 am
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:59 pm 
 

Denial of Life wrote:
D, F and G feel a lot more influential to me on some of the weirder or more space-y kinds of death metal. Mithras/Sarpanitum, Blood Incantation, even Gojira are some notable ones I can think of that pretty clearly take from that era. I don’t think there’s too much similarity in that era of MA to Incantation beyond going slow sometimes (and Immolation sound totally different from Incantation, never really got that comparison).

Wouldn't you say that churning riffing style is a common theme between all three though? Both -tion bands use way more pinch harmonics (I'm not even sure if Trey has ever used them), but it definitely made a difference from the thrash-influenced riffing style of pretty much every other band at the time.

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Kalaratri
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:10 pm 
 

SladeCraven wrote:
Slater922 wrote:
robotiq wrote:
"Altars of Madness" is (probably) the most influential death metal album of all time. It marked the point when death metal divorced itself from thrash and punk and just turned into some warped, curvelinear monstrosity. Yes, Possessed had already done the pacemaking, but that record took it to the next level.

Let's not forget that the album was also liked within the Norwegian black metal scene along with Deicide's eponymous debut.


Why do you think this was, out of curiosity? Is it something as simple as those two albums having Satanic theming as opposed to gore theming or does it go deeper than that? I'm sure it isn't just one thing or element, I'm just curious as to why those two albums were liked while others of a similar ilk were not.


The Norwegian black metal scene was also influenced by bands like Death and Asphyx (particularly Eric Daniels' style of guitar playing) so I don't think the lyrical content is the sole reason. I think in the case of Altars it has the rawness of late 80s death metal allied Trey's warped guitar playing and a sense of diabolical grandiosity that probably caught the ear of a lot of second wave black metal musicians. They were already into bands like Sarcofago and I could easily see them viewing Altars as a bit of a kindred spirit to I.N.R.I., albeit more sophisticated technically.

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HeavenDuff
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Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:21 pm 
 

I have to agree with LHISFC, robotiq and Gravetemplar on this one. Altars of Madness is not only their best, but also their most influential. I'm not saying they didn't keep releasing solid albums afterward or that they didn't have any other influential releases, but Altars of Madness is on an entirely different level, it's head and shoulders above the rest of their discography. Like others said, it was groundbreaking.

I also want to mention the influence that Morbid Angel had, not only with AoM but also with the rest of their discography, on the osdm revival scene. Bands like Blood Incantation cite them as a major influence.

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Denial of Life
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Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:38 am
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:59 pm 
 

Lagartija wrote:
Denial of Life wrote:
D, F and G feel a lot more influential to me on some of the weirder or more space-y kinds of death metal. Mithras/Sarpanitum, Blood Incantation, even Gojira are some notable ones I can think of that pretty clearly take from that era. I don’t think there’s too much similarity in that era of MA to Incantation beyond going slow sometimes (and Immolation sound totally different from Incantation, never really got that comparison).

Wouldn't you say that churning riffing style is a common theme between all three though? Both -tion bands use way more pinch harmonics (I'm not even sure if Trey has ever used them), but it definitely made a difference from the thrash-influenced riffing style of pretty much every other band at the time.

Definitely, not saying Morbid Angel didn’t influence them because they obviously did but I think the mid-era albums are more influential on other types of death metal. Also, Trey definitely uses pinch harmonics, they are all over the MA discography haha

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Lagartija
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Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:27 am
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Location: Catalunya
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:48 pm 
 

Re pinch harmonics, I'll have to listen more carefully then. They didn't stand out as much to me as those used by Incantation and Immolation...

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Lane
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Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 11:54 am
Posts: 1095
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:36 pm 
 

Oxenkiller wrote:
The most influential thing about Morbid Angel to me is Trey Azagthoth's "wah-wah pedal freakout" guitar playing style. That is a style all unto it's own. But yeah, "Altars of Madness" and to a lesser extent "Blessed are the Sick" and Covenant are all hugely influential and ground-breaking albums.


I remember him saying he wanted to sound like he was playing backwards (perhaps in some 1990s Guitar Hero mag). I've heard MA-influenced riffs and guitar playing in sooooooo many bands...

PS. LOL definitely not a Guitar Hero magazine... Guitar World, more like.
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Liquid_Braino
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 11:49 am 
 

AoM certainly influenced and altered my music taste in that back when it came out it was the first time I heard full-on blast beats that didn't overwhelm and ruin the music for me. Before that, I was alright with blasts in a few hardcore/crossover acts (didn't like grindcore at the time), but I found them annoying in metal, taking away from the riffs. I had that Chuck Schuldiner mentality concerning them, but Sandoval's AoM performance changed that. Even then it was kinda gradual, as my favorite tracks were the opener and Visions From the Darkside due to the lack of blast-beats, but eventually the precision of Sandoval at the time won me over and I got into the intensity of the rest of the album. By the end of 1990 blast-beats were just another cool aspect of death metal for me.
Maybe not the first tightly-performed blast-beat metal album, but definitely one of the most influential.

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