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77hjrttfred
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:15 pm
Posts: 411
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:22 pm 
 

I have recently been revisiting their catalogue so I was wondering how people feel about them around here?

I thought that 'Infernus' was a bit of a return to form over the previous couple of albums. I guess it had a few more groovy passages than some of their previous albums.

I don't know about you guys, but I have always felt there is something a bit 'off' on some of the productions. I particularly noticed it on 'Phoenix Amongst The Ashes'. Maybe it is only me, but it sounds like it was recorded underwater, or something like that.

I actually only got the first album, 'Conquering The Throne' fairly recently. And I am really digging that album at the moment. I actually really enjoy the much shorter running times on the songs. Personally, I think it helps when you rely on a lot of blasting passages.

So, what do you regard as their best albums? Do you think some of Rutan's productions are bit 'off' at times? Actually, what do you think of Rutan production jobs in general? He actually produces a lot of albums for various groups.

Thoughts?

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oilerfan
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:46 pm
Posts: 79
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 10:21 pm 
 

They are ok. As you mentioned, the production on most of their stuff hurts them. To me, the muddiness blunts the brutality. After a while it all starts to sound the same. I love CTT. My personal favourite of their discography. Very much chaotic brutality, but yet, arguably, probably their most melodic album.

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MikeyC
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:16 am
Posts: 14205
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:09 pm 
 

I, Monarch will always be my favourite from these guys, and the one I generally go back to most often. I find the songs to be a lot more memorable there.

Overall they don't have a bad album, although since you've mentioned the production, Fury and Flames has a very compressed sound to it, like it was recorded under a hydraulic press. Since then, they've been churning out some pretty good music, and I've liked their last 3.

They're actually due for a new album. Hopefully we'll see something soon.
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Slater922
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:24 pm
Posts: 2338
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:30 pm 
 

First two albums are great. Everything else is okay, but nothing too crazy.
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morteal47
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:25 am
Posts: 18
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:42 am 
 

Since Erik Rutan produces his albums its seems like he tries new things out with each albums. Which I guess from an artist perspective that's cool but it would be nice to have some consistently as a listener.
I recall when "Fury and Flames" came out, I had subwoofers in my car at the time and it was just a constant wall of thumping bass. It was a little hard to discern anything else when listening to that album like that.

But the past 2-3 albums I feel have been most consistent and enjoyable to listen to in that regard.

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FirebathDan
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 2:32 pm
Posts: 1621
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 5:44 am 
 

I like some stuff, but not a huge fan. I, Monarch is my personal favorite, Derek Roddy puts on a godly performance here, and the production is decent on this one. King Of All Kings is also quite good for similar reasons.

Rutan is not a great producer, to my ears. I personally hear his overall production style as extremely loud to the point of ear fatigue. Riffs are often indiscernible, drums are WAY too loud, and the overall music is way too relentless that at this volume it all becomes an incomprehensible blur of sonic intensity that eventually blends together. I often find the task of listening to a Hate Eternal album to a severe chore after two or three songs, I feel like I’m listening to Merzbow or something (see also: Vital Remains Icons Of Evil).

I, Monarch doesn’t suffer this all that much, and the riffs are way clearer, revealing that Rutan is actually a very innovative guitarist with a wholly unique riff/writing style. It’s certainly possible that if all albums that followed this one were sonically similar, I would consider their discography to be unassailable.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:32 am 
 

To that last point, Derek Roddy has said in the past that I, Monarch was the only Hate Eternal album they actually wrote together as a band. Everything else was either pre-written by Erik or written on the fly in the studio. That's almost certainly why that one is the most interesting and enjoyable of all of Hate Eternal's albums, as it was actually planned out by the full band beforehand and everything gelled together, as opposed to the guitars being written first and everything coming later.
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draconiondevil
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:21 pm
Posts: 709
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:15 pm 
 

I'm fine with Rutan's work in Cannibal Corpse both as a producer and a guitarist. I think he does a good job there but I've never been able to get into Hate Eternal. Whenever I've tried it basically sounds like constant blasting to me. Maybe I'll give it another shot soon.
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praey
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:33 am
Posts: 925
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:35 pm 
 

I haven't been able to get into them either. The constant blasting doesn't even bother me so much, but I feel like (in the material I've heard) there just isn't much interesting going on. I have the same problem with some of Krisiun's material. I will say Conquering the Throne was better than the others, but even that isn't an album I would buy. I respect Rutan's contributions to the genre, but Hate Eternal are at best a C-tier band to me.

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acid_bukkake
SAD!

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:45 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:41 pm 
 

A band that I wasn't able to get into for years (hell, decades at this point) but took another listen to in these last few months and really grew to appreciate.
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Gemini 7 Rising
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:08 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 2:21 pm 
 

I think they're one of the most consistently reliable American death metal bands out there. I like the entire discography and listen to all of them. That said, I agree that the drums could perhaps be a tad bit lower in the mix to let those riffs come through better.

Still- great band and I love that it's always relentless, full-throttle, pedal to the metal from start to finish, almost like a grindcore record without the starts/stops. And they do mix it up- there's a lot of detail and nuance within the songs (another reason I wish they'd take the drums down a bit) and they usually end the album with a cool instrumental.
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Lee Harrison
Metalhead

Joined: Mon May 30, 2022 6:28 am
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Location: Italy
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 2:47 pm 
 

A good but not a great band.
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Nocturnal_Evil
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:00 am
Posts: 668
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 2:49 pm 
 

They're certainly not the worst death metal has to offer, but I wouldn't put them near the top either.
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overtenmy
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:09 pm
Posts: 321
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:08 pm 
 

I like Hate Eternal. They aren’t my favorite band. I respect Erik Rutan. He’s a talented musician and a good producer. My favorite HE albums are the first two. They are a consistent band. The only album I haven’t purchased yet is “Fury and Flames.” I agree with the other posters sometimes the problem with their albums is the constant blasting. It can get monotonous after a while. HE is a fun band to see live.

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lord_ghengis
Still Standing After 38 Beers... hic

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:32 pm 
 

They're capable of the odd amazing song but never pull off a full album without at least half of it just being directionless thumping.
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Frank Booth
Can Bench 450

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:29 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:23 pm 
 

I honestly feel like Upon Desolate Sands is the best thing they've ever done. Erik and JJ tried a lot of new things there and pulled them all off splendidly.

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cultofkraken
Veteran

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:18 am
Posts: 3005
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:35 am 
 

Still think Conquering the Throne is my fav. New stuff is alright but is lacking riffs I can hang my hat on.
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andersbang
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:28 am
Posts: 1069
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:23 am 
 

Fantastic band. On par with early Nile in balancing brutality and atmosphere. I, Monarch is a goddamn masterpiece and the rest of the discography is excellent as well.

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bastardpig
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:08 pm
Posts: 25
Location: Sint Maarten (Dutch part)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:21 am 
 

I'd listen to this band way more regularly if they would just slow the fuck down sometimes.
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pressingtoplead13
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:05 pm
Posts: 740
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:25 am 
 

I feel like Conquering The Throne is probably their best, those 3 songs written by Cerritto were amazing, its such a shame he left the metal scene because some of Suffocations and Hate Eternal's best work was written by him. I Monarch is close 2nd, that album has a great production sound and its the perfect mix of brutality with good catchy hooks. I Monarch the song has always been one of my favorite go to gym songs.

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Judas Maiden
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2021 3:56 pm
Posts: 861
Location: Philippines
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:37 am 
 

The only album of theirs I owned and listened to was 'Conquering the Throne' and I traded it away years ago. I've never felt the need to explore the band's music beyond that album.

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FirebathDan
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 2:32 pm
Posts: 1621
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:10 am 
 

Relative to what I wrote above versus what others are saying, I am going to spend the next few weeks with this band’s discography (on good noise canceling headphones) to see if I can get over my perceived production issues.
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Frank Booth
Can Bench 450

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:29 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:18 pm 
 

The production was only really an issue on the two Jade-era albums. The first three and the past two don't really have any issues, and Infernus manages to nail the raw, gritty vibe that I feel like Erik was going for. The other thing I will give Erik is that the drums aren't quantized - he's old-school and will just tell you that the take was bad and you're going to have to redo it.

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FLIPPITYFLOOP
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:09 pm
Posts: 1433
Location: CHRAWNA, Canada
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:41 pm 
 

I actually LIKE the production of Fury And Flames. Perhaps it was the headphones I was using (just a cheap pair of Sony's that are ironically a bit bass-heavy), but I find the guitar riffs are more discernible than I, Monarch, even if the bass is loud on it. But whatever the case, I revisited Fury And Flames a few months ago and quite enjoyed it and the album flew by rather quick, to my surprise - for Hate Eternal's other albums I've found I have to persevere way too much.

I saw them many years ago and even bought a shirt, and while they played great and Erik Rutan is a super friendly human being, in hindsight I think I was trying to convince myself I liked them more than I actually did. Not sure why Fury And Flames attracted me enough to give it another chance, but it did, and it wasn't much trouble for me to digest or comprehend. By contrast, I, Monarch sounds like a fucking mess to my ears and even though the levels are more balanced - and perhaps this is the way the guitars were recorded, or the specific tone, or the riff construction - I still can't tell what the fuck is going on (and not in a "this is eerie and avant-garde" kind of way) and I've pretty much given up trying.

But I still respect Erik a lot, and as a producer he definitely knows his shit. I find that the albums he produces for other bands sound significantly better than his own. Perhaps he feels a need to experiment with his band, or maybe he gets too perfectionistic and tinkers with it too much to the point where he unintentionally ruins it. If that's the case, it wouldn't surprise me - with that kind of job, I can imagine there's a certain detachment you have when you're producing other bands and you're open to making adjustments as per their request, but with your own music, "it's gotta be just so...and this has to go like this... and there's not enough this... but I'm not done yet, I need to change this... and now I need more of this.... and - jesus christ how the fuck did the snare and vocals end up THAT god damn loud???"

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wone21r
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:26 am
Posts: 170
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:35 am 
 

I liked I, Monarch and King Of All Kings back in the day. Gave Fury and Flames a listen when it came out, didn't like it. I remember thinking it sounded like it was underwater and not being able to pick anything interesting in the riffs/songwriting.

Have probably listened to approx 2 songs total across the last 3 albums. Should probably give it more of a chance, but I have a thing where I don't like "forcing" albums. If it doesn't have something to gain my attention immediately, it's hard for me to push through the whole album.

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kovner1972
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:33 pm
Posts: 435
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2022 3:32 am 
 

Judas Maiden wrote:
The only album of theirs I owned and listened to was 'Conquering the Throne' and I traded it away years ago. I've never felt the need to explore the band's music beyond that album.


Same here.

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Gemini 7 Rising
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:08 am
Posts: 729
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2022 3:19 pm 
 

FLIPPITYFLOOP wrote:
I find that the albums he produces for other bands sound significantly better than his own. Perhaps he feels a need to experiment with his band, or maybe he gets too perfectionistic and tinkers with it too much to the point where he unintentionally ruins it. If that's the case, it wouldn't surprise me - with that kind of job, I can imagine there's a certain detachment you have when you're producing other bands and you're open to making adjustments as per their request, but with your own music, "it's gotta be just so...and this has to go like this... and there's not enough this... but I'm not done yet, I need to change this... and now I need more of this.... and - jesus christ how the fuck did the snare and vocals end up THAT god damn loud???"


That's an interesting take and I wouldn't be surprised if you're on the right track.
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MalignantTyrant
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:27 pm
Posts: 1642
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:17 pm 
 

I actually used to like Hate Eternal a ton in high school and early in college.
These days, they are an occasional listen at best. I still think I, Monarch is a fantastic album, personally.

I also unironically enjoy Icons of Evilas well and don't even hate the production as much as some folks. That seems to be Vital Remains least popular album by far
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FirebathDan
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 2:32 pm
Posts: 1621
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:10 am 
 

So when I’m wrong, I’m wrong. No shame in admitting so. Hate Eternal is pretty much elite death metal.

I spent the last seven weeks with their discography, one album per week, one play per day on decent noise canceling headphones. This is pretty much top tier death metal.

I based my whole complaint on Rutan’s production style on one Hate Eternal album, Fury And Flames (as well as Vital Remains’ Icons Of Evil, roughly produced by him around the same time), and I stand by that record being something of a incomprehensible mess. It was around this time that I checked out of this band as an active listener.

Even then, with a little digging, the songs and riffcraft on that album are outstanding, and Alex Webster absolutely slays on this one.

But all albums before and after that one have powerful, clear, and defined production.

Phoenix, Infernus, and Desolate Sands blew me the fuck away! Rutan has such a unique riff style, surely borrowing from his days in MA, but puts a lot of his own spins in there as well.

I didn’t care much for Simonetto’s drumming, essentially after Roddy’s masterclass performance on I, Monarch, but Grossmann and especially Westmoreland put on incredible drum performances (a bit expected from Grossmann). If Longstreth truly is this band’s new drummer, then the next record is gonna be insane. That’s a murderer’s row of drummers Rutan has worked with.

All in all, I’m glad I gave this band a serious shot, and am glad to have been wrong with my preconceived notions.

I’d rank the albums as such:

I, Monarch
Conquering The Throne
Infernus
Upon Desolate Sands
Phoenix Amongst The Ashes
King Of All Kings
Fury And Flames
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Ace_Rimmer
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:30 am
Posts: 4580
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:59 am 
 

Seen them live and listened to a couple albums and its not for me.

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klaar
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:10 am
Posts: 70
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:51 pm 
 

Hate Eternal boils down to Conquering The Throne and I, Monarch for me. I remember when it was announced that Alex Webster would record Fury and Flames, I had high expectations. But that album didn't please me at all. It was as if they had made that album "just for themselves" let's say.
I must say that I, Monarch has one of the best drum sounds I've ever heard on a death metal record.

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Benedict Donald
Veteran

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:36 am
Posts: 3052
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:56 pm 
 

I'm not the biggest death metal fan, but I really dig these guys.

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Waltz_of_Ghouls
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:24 am
Posts: 855
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 7:10 pm 
 

They sure are a death metal band.
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lennonlikesmetal
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:25 am
Posts: 4640
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 7:46 pm 
 

Frank Booth wrote:
I honestly feel like Upon Desolate Sands is the best thing they've ever done. Erik and JJ tried a lot of new things there and pulled them all off splendidly.


Was surprisingly good. Their best since Kings...

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elvenefrisian
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:38 am
Posts: 45
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 11:56 am 
 

I, Monarch, Phoenix Amongst the Ashes, Infernus and Upon Desolate Sands are all pretty solid albums. really like their brand of bombastic death metal. can be a bit much on the ears. but very enjoyable in doses

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Gemini 7 Rising
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:08 am
Posts: 729
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 3:50 pm 
 

FirebathDan wrote:
So when I’m wrong, I’m wrong. No shame in admitting so. Hate Eternal is pretty much elite death metal.

I spent the last seven weeks with their discography, one album per week, one play per day on decent noise canceling headphones. This is pretty much top tier death metal.

I based my whole complaint on Rutan’s production style on one Hate Eternal album, Fury And Flames (as well as Vital Remains’ Icons Of Evil, roughly produced by him around the same time), and I stand by that record being something of a incomprehensible mess. It was around this time that I checked out of this band as an active listener.

Even then, with a little digging, the songs and riffcraft on that album are outstanding, and Alex Webster absolutely slays on this one.

But all albums before and after that one have powerful, clear, and defined production.

Phoenix, Infernus, and Desolate Sands blew me the fuck away! Rutan has such a unique riff style, surely borrowing from his days in MA, but puts a lot of his own spins in there as well.

I didn’t care much for Simonetto’s drumming, essentially after Roddy’s masterclass performance on I, Monarch, but Grossmann and especially Westmoreland put on incredible drum performances (a bit expected from Grossmann). If Longstreth truly is this band’s new drummer, then the next record is gonna be insane. That’s a murderer’s row of drummers Rutan has worked with.

All in all, I’m glad I gave this band a serious shot, and am glad to have been wrong with my preconceived notions.

I’d rank the albums as such:

I, Monarch
Conquering The Throne
Infernus
Upon Desolate Sands
Phoenix Amongst The Ashes
King Of All Kings
Fury And Flames


Love that, it's always great when you have a break through with a band which you previously had a difficult time getting into but then, with persistence, one day you discover that all of the elements and the craft are indeed there.
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markhebb
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:32 am
Posts: 248
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:47 am 
 

Ok- I always thought these guys were a twiddling wankfest. But it looks like I should give them another go. Where should I start- do they have a definitive ‘best album’?

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lennonlikesmetal
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:25 am
Posts: 4640
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2022 4:01 am 
 

markhebb wrote:
Ok- I always thought these guys were a twiddling wankfest. But it looks like I should give them another go. Where should I start- do they have a definitive ‘best album’?


Conquering. Pretty much a classic of the style that is enhanced by Doug Cerrito writing part of it.

Then do Upon Desolate Sands. It fuses in melody really well.

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markhebb
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:32 am
Posts: 248
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2022 6:38 am 
 

lennonlikesmetal wrote:
markhebb wrote:
Ok- I always thought these guys were a twiddling wankfest. But it looks like I should give them another go. Where should I start- do they have a definitive ‘best album’?


Conquering. Pretty much a classic of the style that is enhanced by Doug Cerrito writing part of it.

Then do Upon Desolate Sands. It fuses in melody really well.


Cheers- will do

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Gemini 7 Rising
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:08 am
Posts: 729
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2022 4:24 pm 
 

markhebb wrote:
Ok- I always thought these guys were a twiddling wankfest. But it looks like I should give them another go. Where should I start- do they have a definitive ‘best album’?


I agree Conquering the Throne is a great place to start, especially if you're the type that likes to start at the beginning (Conquering or I, Monarch are both fantastic, though King of All Kings is too). If you prefer to start with a more modern production and work your way back, then any of the last 3 will do, they're all badass.
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