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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 32361
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2022 10:34 am 
 

Usually it's the kind of thing I wouldn't even like, but Tobi always has a knack for a good melody.
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Subrick
Metal Strongman

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2022 10:37 am 
 

See, THAT is the kind of Avantasia I enjoy most. Tobias’s material is best when it leans into the inherent silliness of the music and is proudly over the top. Luckily for me, that’s the general direction Avantasia has been going for a while now, so I’ll accept having to listen to a couple shitty ballads each album if it leads me to songs like this.
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Benedict Donald
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:36 am
Posts: 1427
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2022 10:56 am 
 

Zelkiiro wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
...this is the kind of chorus that every genre of music needs way, way more of.


Indeed.

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By_Inheritance
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 8:38 am
Posts: 549
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2022 11:38 am 
 

Found the guest vocalists list on the recordstore.co.uk website when I was looking at pre-orders. Can't seem to find any official announcement but I assume it's correct anyway.


Welcome To The Shadows
The Wicked Rule The Night (feat Ralph Scheepers)
Kill The Pain Away (feat Floor Jansen)
The Inmost Light (feat Michael Kiske)
Misplaced Among The Angels (feat Floor Jansen)
I Tame The Storm (fear Jorn Lande)
Paper Plane (feat Ronnie Atkins)
The Moonflower Society (feat Bob Catley)
Rhyme And Reason (feat Eric Martin)
Scars (feat Geoff Tate)
Arabesque (feat Michael Kiske, Jorn Lande)

Excited to hear the Floor Jansen songs and the fact that she has two is awesome. I assume one will be a ballad because Tobias can't help himself but put women on ballads.

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yungstirjoey666
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:47 am
Posts: 340
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2022 1:05 pm 
 

By_Inheritance wrote:
Found the guest vocalists list on the recordstore.co.uk website when I was looking at pre-orders. Can't seem to find any official announcement but I assume it's correct anyway.


Welcome To The Shadows
The Wicked Rule The Night (feat Ralph Scheepers)
Kill The Pain Away (feat Floor Jansen)
The Inmost Light (feat Michael Kiske)
Misplaced Among The Angels (feat Floor Jansen)
I Tame The Storm (fear Jorn Lande)
Paper Plane (feat Ronnie Atkins)
The Moonflower Society (feat Bob Catley)
Rhyme And Reason (feat Eric Martin)
Scars (feat Geoff Tate)
Arabesque (feat Michael Kiske, Jorn Lande)

Excited to hear the Floor Jansen songs and the fact that she has two is awesome. I assume one will be a ballad because Tobias can't help himself but put women on ballads.


Mostly the same guests as usual, but I am really looking forward to those Floor Jansen tracks. Hopefully one day he'll be able to recruit Bruce Dickinson.

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tobi is an animal
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:29 pm
Posts: 58
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2022 2:11 pm 
 

lordcatfish wrote:
Another new song.


Another melodic gem from Tobi.


Last edited by tobi is an animal on Wed Jul 13, 2022 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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tobi is an animal
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:29 pm
Posts: 58
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2022 2:15 pm 
 

By_Inheritance wrote:
Found the guest vocalists list on the recordstore.co.uk website when I was looking at pre-orders. Can't seem to find any official announcement but I assume it's correct anyway.


Welcome To The Shadows
The Wicked Rule The Night (feat Ralph Scheepers)
Kill The Pain Away (feat Floor Jansen)
The Inmost Light (feat Michael Kiske)
Misplaced Among The Angels (feat Floor Jansen)
I Tame The Storm (fear Jorn Lande)
Paper Plane (feat Ronnie Atkins)
The Moonflower Society (feat Bob Catley)
Rhyme And Reason (feat Eric Martin)
Scars (feat Geoff Tate)
Arabesque (feat Michael Kiske, Jorn Lande)

Excited to hear the Floor Jansen songs and the fact that she has two is awesome. I assume one will be a ballad because Tobias can't help himself but put women on ballads.


I'm guessing the best two songs will be I Tame The Storm and the 10 minute opus Arabesque. I'm not a big Floor fan but I don't mind her. Of course Tobi had to sneak tate in there, at least it's only 4 minutes and Tobi is likely to take care of at least 50% of the vocals.

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InsaneSniper
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:18 pm
Posts: 133
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2022 2:44 pm 
 

Man, I was hoping Tobi would bring back Herbie Langhans :(

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CoconutBackwards
Bullet Centrist

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:02 pm
Posts: 1513
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2022 8:17 am 
 

What a chorus! Holy shit.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 32361
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2022 5:05 pm 
 

Man this new song really is one of these genius moments that keeps me coming back to his work all the time... that chorus is great because it's so vibrant and bouncy but it isn't just relying on an overload of choirs like some other bands - a genuinely cool addictive hook.
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tobi is an animal
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:29 pm
Posts: 58
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2022 11:24 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Man this new song really is one of these genius moments that keeps me coming back to his work all the time... that chorus is great because it's so vibrant and bouncy but it isn't just relying on an overload of choirs like some other bands - a genuinely cool addictive hook.


Well said.

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Spiner202
Veteran

Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 3:32 pm
Posts: 2523
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2022 12:12 pm 
 

I really like this song as well. It feels a bit more familiar in terms of the main melody, but still great.

I'm a bit let down on the guests. I feel like when Avantasia re-launched, they'd keep trying to bring in big new names. I guess there are a couple this time (Ralf and Floor), but it does feel like Tobi just re-uses the best people. Other than Jorn and Kiske, I don't think any of the guests need to be on more than 1 or 2 albums.

Also, I think he used to combine multiple singers into one song, whereas it looks like that is only happening on the last track. I wonder if this is because it's easier to manage in a live setting.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 32361
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 9:56 am 
 

^ Well this is my problem with them now; every album seems to have the same basic template and guests, etc. There usually ends up being enough good songs to be worthwhile, but I do wish he'd change it up. That first single sounded like every heavy Edguy song he ever wrote.
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Benedict Donald
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:36 am
Posts: 1427
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 11:09 am 
 

Agreed -- he needs to ditch Scheepers. The song with him is totally ruined by his unbelievably ugly voice. He's a painful listening experience.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 32361
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 4:19 pm 
 

I didn't think he was too bad, just the song was overly familiar... not bad but not really anything we haven't heard and done better on "Mysteria," "Under the Moon," etc. It doesn't even go as hard as "Sabre & Torch."
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Chaosmonger
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:59 pm
Posts: 1317
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 4:45 pm 
 

a part of me wishes he'd just do a full album with just him and Kiske sharing vox and make it more power metal. The Kiske songs are usually the best ones...along with the Jorn ones. The more commercial pop songs and the more musical Meat Loaf-sounding songs are usually well-written enough but can be a bit cringy.

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yungstirjoey666
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:47 am
Posts: 340
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 5:16 pm 
 

I think Tobi uses most of the same singers nowadays because they're easier to recruit and they had better connection with him. But yeah, I was kinda disappointed with the guest lineup for the new album. At this rate we may as well consider Jorn Lande, Michael Kiske, and Bob Catley as permanent members of Avantasia rather than guest vocals.

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tobi is an animal
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:29 pm
Posts: 58
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:12 pm 
 

Yea Tobi could shake things up a little on the guest front. Sebastian Bach, Noora Louhimo, Yannis Papadopoulos, Elize Ryd etc.

Catley, Kiske, and Lande are going to be on there but after that it should be all new vocalists. I believe Catley and Kiske have been on every album; so in a tradition sense they should remain on there, and I have no issues with either vocalist.
Tobi left Lande off The Mystery Of Time and that didn't go over too well, so Tobi won't be making that mistake again. I don't mind Biff, but Lande in his spot would have been better.

An album with Tobi, Lande and Hansi doing all the vocals would probably be ideal for me.

Tobi usually has multiple singers on the epics but there's only one epic this time around.

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yungstirjoey666
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:47 am
Posts: 340
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:19 pm 
 

I think Tobi should also recruit more non-hard rock/metal singers in the future to mix things up. He had Candice Night in the last album.


Last edited by yungstirjoey666 on Mon Jul 18, 2022 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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lordcatfish
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:44 pm
Posts: 1191
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2022 2:42 pm 
 

Kiske is the only singer who has been on every album. Catley first appeared on The Metal Opera Pt.II. I'm sure I read something about Jorn being dropped for The Mystery of Time because he wasn't available to tour in support of it, but there were probably other singers on that album who couldn't tour either, so I might be misremembering.

I agree that the line ups are too predictable now, and I'm sure we all expected the usual suspects. I really wanted Noora Louhimo on there - she'd do an amazing job. Erik Gronwall would be a great shout too.

With regards to non rock / metal singers, I do recall Tobi once saying he'd got in contact with Yvonne Catterfeld, but nothing ever came of it.
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tobi is an animal
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:29 pm
Posts: 58
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:51 pm 
 

lordcatfish wrote:
Kiske is the only singer who has been on every album. Catley first appeared on The Metal Opera Pt.II. I'm sure I read something about Jorn being dropped for The Mystery of Time because he wasn't available to tour in support of it, but there were probably other singers on that album who couldn't tour either, so I might be misremembering.

I agree that the line ups are too predictable now, and I'm sure we all expected the usual suspects. I really wanted Noora Louhimo on there - she'd do an amazing job. Erik Gronwall would be a great shout too.

With regards to non rock / metal singers, I do recall Tobi once saying he'd got in contact with Yvonne Catterfeld, but nothing ever came of it.


Yea Catley didn't appear on the first album; but he was there from the start with Kiske in the sense, that I believe both albums were recorded around the same time.
And yea that touring excuse doesn't sound quite right considering a lot of his guests don't tour with him. I thought around that time I heard rumblings of Jorn being difficult to work with. Either way it seems to be all worked out now.
I'm not sure why Tobi doesn't ask Noora.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 32361
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:52 pm 
 

Urban breed, Tony Martin, Matthias Blad and Andy Franck might be cool to have on some Avantasia songs; different sorts of voices than usual.

Michele Luppi would be excellent too. And Edu Falaschi.
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Spiner202
Veteran

Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 3:32 pm
Posts: 2523
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:53 pm 
 

I hadn't even thought about Michele Luppi and now I'm thinking he might be the best possible guest.

I was glad to see Ralf because I want to see him burn through some of the classic power metal singers like Timo Kotipelto and Joacim Cans.

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lordcatfish
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:44 pm
Posts: 1191
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:15 pm 
 

tobi is an animal wrote:
Yea Catley didn't appear on the first album; but he was there from the start with Kiske in the sense, that I believe both albums were recorded around the same time.
And yea that touring excuse doesn't sound quite right considering a lot of his guests don't tour with him. I thought around that time I heard rumblings of Jorn being difficult to work with. Either way it seems to be all worked out now.

That's a fair point about the two albums being recorded around the same time - I hadn't considered that.

I did a little digging about Jorn and it looks like he actually turned down the chance to appear on The Mystery of Time because he was too busy.

https://myglobalmind.com/2013/03/23/exc ... sia-edguy/
"The thing is Jorn is a great vocalist, an amazing singer but he didn’t want to do it. I asked him but he was so busy having other things on his agenda. It wasn’t a decision of mine to bring in others. Of course the record is very diverse and we have some vocalists on there that you would not necessarily expect. I am really happy with “The mystery of Time” and how the album turned out to be. Of course for Jorn I would have found a slot, but he didn’t want to go on tour and he had other plans. It was entirely beyond my decision and power.”
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lordcatfish
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:44 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:05 am 
 

Another new song out. This one has Floor as a guest.

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metroplex
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:28 am
Posts: 1018
Location: Peru
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:49 am 
 

Just heard the new song with Floor from Nightwish, catchy af.

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Kaleva
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:41 pm
Posts: 58
Location: Spain
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:54 am 
 

And when I thought they couldn't released something duller than "The Moonflower Society", I get this complete waste of Floor's talent.

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By_Inheritance
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 8:38 am
Posts: 549
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:59 am 
 

It's a good song, don't get me wrong, but it has the same problems again: it sounds like everything he's ever done. The beginning of the chorus reminds me so much of a section in Journey to Arcadia where he's belting out about "dying for an angel." It's also like in The Moonflower Society, the chorus riff was taken from a section in The Great Mystery. He's either directly recycling moments or the songs sound familiar enough that, although they're not exactly the same, give you a sense of deja vu. I love Tobias but I just wish he'd do something new now.

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yungstirjoey666
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:47 am
Posts: 340
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:03 am 
 

Yeah, song's nice, but compared to the first two singles, this one doesn't really hit as well. Perhaps I kinda wish Floor had more in the song. Luckily we still have another song in the track with her.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 32361
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:06 pm 
 

By_Inheritance wrote:
It's a good song, don't get me wrong, but it has the same problems again: it sounds like everything he's ever done. The beginning of the chorus reminds me so much of a section in Journey to Arcadia where he's belting out about "dying for an angel." It's also like in The Moonflower Society, the chorus riff was taken from a section in The Great Mystery. He's either directly recycling moments or the songs sound familiar enough that, although they're not exactly the same, give you a sense of deja vu. I love Tobias but I just wish he'd do something new now.


He's definitely gotten to the point where he's in a comfortable rut of sound. Happens to most bands. It's just jarring from the guy who in the mid 00s was always talking about how he was zigging where everyone else was zagging, doing his own thing, etc - and every Edguy album different from the previous.

Song's pretty good. Very Disneyish but it's quality.
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tobi is an animal
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Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:29 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:26 pm 
 

Tobi gets back on track in the ballad category with a great one here. I thought Isle Of Evermore and Invincible were good but not great; and were the weaker points of those two amazing albums.

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pecanhamonstro
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2022 10:48 am
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2022 10:59 am 
 

Can't wait for the new album. My favourite part are the reviews where people keep whining about how the new album is so different from Metal Opera I and II.
Jokes aside, the three released tracks are awesome, Floor Jansen works perfectly with this atmosphere.

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yungstirjoey666
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:47 am
Posts: 340
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:02 am 
 

New song:




To be honest, this has never been a problem for previous Avantasia records, but even I find Tobi's vocals a bit off in this album. Too much vibrato or constraints in his vocals or something. I don't know; I think he should let his guests shine through more.

Based on what we've heard so far from this album, I don't think this will surpass Moonglow in my opinion. But hey, I'm still wondering what the rest sounds like. So far my favorite song is The Moonflower Society. Catley's vocals are heavenly, and I've been getting into Magnum lately. A very underrated 80s hard rock band.


Anyways this album does give me a sort of autumn feel. If I have to group the other albums into seasons, here's how I'd do it:

Metal Opera 1: spring
Metal Opera 2: summer
Scarecrow: autumn
Wicked Symphony: autumn
Angel of Babylon: winter
Mystery of Time: winter
Ghostlights: spring
Moonglow: summer
A Paranormal Evening with the Moonflower Society: autumn

Eh, it's funny how we're going through a full cycle twice.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 32361
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:21 am 
 

Sounds good - though a lot like every other song they've done together. I like Tobi's vocals fine though, he's getting older obviously but I couldn't imagine not having his voice there.
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lordcatfish
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:44 pm
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:16 am 
 

It's a power metal song with Kiske... has Tobi ever got one of those wrong? But yeah, whilst good, it's quite predictable. Once you hear the first line of the chorus, you know how the rest of the hook is gonna go.

I'm struggling to get too excited for this at the moment. All of the songs have been fine, but nothing great. I wasn't a big of Moonglow, and I fear this is shaping up the same way.
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By_Inheritance
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 8:38 am
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:56 am 
 

Again, it's still a solid song, but it's just another typical Kiske power metal song. It's getting a tad boring at this point.

And what's with Tobi singing about fingering pies? I know he said this was his most personal album, but okay mate. Leave that off the record.

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Twisted_Psychology
Metal freak

Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 8:22 pm
Posts: 5904
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:37 pm 
 

By_Inheritance wrote:
And what's with Tobi singing about fingering pies? I know he said this was his most personal album, but okay mate. Leave that off the record.


We'll just tell your mother that we ate the pie.
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