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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:33 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
I don't know where this idea that people who speak many languages don't speak them as well as if they were unilingual comes, but it's not true.


I don't want to wade through the rest of the muck in the last page or two, but I think this is a challenging question, and probably varies case by case. I don't have quite enough multi-lingual experience to say for sure (took a few years of Latin and a tiny bit of Spanish, but I'm far from fluent in either), but I can speak from a musical perspective. Time spent practicing one instrument is time not spent practicing a different one. Someone who plays drums six hours a day is most likely going to be a more skilled drummer than someone who only plays for one hour a day and spends the other five on other instruments.

There is a question of musicality, in that learning other instruments gives a framework that can help you understand your primary instrument better, especially as to how they relate to each other. I know enough about commonalities between languages to know that similar principles can be at play. But still, there is a reason there is so much specialization, because being deep into one particular thing (a language, an instrument) yields certain types of knowledge that are difficult to attain for someone who is spread more thin. Some people are better able to parlay information gained in one endeavor into another different but related one. But there are reasons to believe that hyper-focus on a particular field is likely to result in particular advantages over someone who has to split their time and resources among several.

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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:47 pm 
 

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
HeavenDuff wrote:
I don't know where this idea that people who speak many languages don't speak them as well as if they were unilingual comes, but it's not true.


I don't want to wade through the rest of the muck in the last page or two, but I think this is a challenging question, and probably varies case by case. I don't have quite enough multi-lingual experience to say for sure (took a few years of Latin and a tiny bit of Spanish, but I'm far from fluent in either), but I can speak from a musical perspective. Time spent practicing one instrument is time not spent practicing a different one. Someone who plays drums six hours a day is most likely going to be a more skilled drummer than someone who only plays for one hour a day and spends the other five on other instruments.

There is a question of musicality, in that learning other instruments gives a framework that can help you understand your primary instrument better, especially as to how they relate to each other. I know enough about commonalities between languages to know that similar principles can be at play. But still, there is a reason there is so much specialization, because being deep into one particular thing (a language, an instrument) yields certain types of knowledge that are difficult to attain for someone who is spread more thin. Some people are better able to parlay information gained in one endeavor into another different but related one. But there are reasons to believe that hyper-focus on a particular field is likely to result in particular advantages over someone who has to split their time and resources among several.


This is an interesting discussion to have for sure, and one I'm definitely willing to have if you're interested, but in this context we are not talking about mastering a language, which could translate into being a skilled writer, poet, litterature specialist or linguist, we are talking about being a competent speaker of one or multiple languages. The musical equivalent to this would a guy like Austin Lunn from Panopticon, who is a multi-instrumentalist and plays each instrument well-enough to be able to release more then competent black metal, while not being a virtuoso of any of his instruments.

There are quite a few examples of multi-instrumentalists playing quality music, just like there are a lot of people who are bilingual, trilingual or else. If I was to learn a third language, I would probably not get any worse in French or English, which are both languages I speak fluently and every day. If anything, learning another language would most likely just help me improve in both French and English, as a new language could give me another perspective, another point of view and tools to understand the other languages I already speak.

For instance, learning to speak Spanish, for someone who speaks French is the linguistic equivalent of a guitarist learning to play bass. There are so many common things between the two. And learning Spanish would definitely not make me any less good in French.

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Gravetemplar
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 5:31 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
HeavenDuff wrote:
I don't know where this idea that people who speak many languages don't speak them as well as if they were unilingual comes, but it's not true.


I don't want to wade through the rest of the muck in the last page or two, but I think this is a challenging question, and probably varies case by case. I don't have quite enough multi-lingual experience to say for sure (took a few years of Latin and a tiny bit of Spanish, but I'm far from fluent in either), but I can speak from a musical perspective. Time spent practicing one instrument is time not spent practicing a different one. Someone who plays drums six hours a day is most likely going to be a more skilled drummer than someone who only plays for one hour a day and spends the other five on other instruments.

There is a question of musicality, in that learning other instruments gives a framework that can help you understand your primary instrument better, especially as to how they relate to each other. I know enough about commonalities between languages to know that similar principles can be at play. But still, there is a reason there is so much specialization, because being deep into one particular thing (a language, an instrument) yields certain types of knowledge that are difficult to attain for someone who is spread more thin. Some people are better able to parlay information gained in one endeavor into another different but related one. But there are reasons to believe that hyper-focus on a particular field is likely to result in particular advantages over someone who has to split their time and resources among several.


This is an interesting discussion to have for sure, and one I'm definitely willing to have if you're interested, but in this context we are not talking about mastering a language, which could translate into being a skilled writer, poet, litterature specialist or linguist, we are talking about being a competent speaker of one or multiple languages. The musical equivalent to this would a guy like Austin Lunn from Panopticon, who is a multi-instrumentalist and plays each instrument well-enough to be able to release more then competent black metal, while not being a virtuoso of any of his instruments.

There are quite a few examples of multi-instrumentalists playing quality music, just like there are a lot of people who are bilingual, trilingual or else. If I was to learn a third language, I would probably not get any worse in French or English, which are both languages I speak fluently and every day. If anything, learning another language would most likely just help me improve in both French and English, as a new language could give me another perspective, another point of view and tools to understand the other languages I already speak.

For instance, learning to speak Spanish, for someone who speaks French is the linguistic equivalent of a guitarist learning to play bass. There are so many common things between the two. And learning Spanish would definitely not make me any less good in French.

I agree with most of what you said. Besides, there's a point where no matter how much you speak a certain language, you aren't getting any better. No matter how much I speak my native tongue, it won't improve unless I invest some serious time and study it in depth. To reach that level of knowledge in my mother tongue I haven't invested my whole life, so it's only logical that other people can be fluent in it and also be fluent in other languages.

Attaining and maintaining the basic level on proficiency in two languages shouldn't be difficult for someone who has learned and studied them since he or she was a child. A lot of people I know actually can, since my country has six official languages and most of my friends that speak two or more them are as proficient in my mother tongue as I am. Sure, it has some advantages and some disadvantages but as you said, being fluent in a language isn't the same as being a virtuoso. I'm pretty sure most people you meet on the street aren't secretly Foster Wallace.

I completely disagree on the French part, sorry. For me it was a million times easier to learn English than learning French and I'm fluent in Spanish. French is a bitch.

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Krist4Lyne
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 5:55 pm 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
I completely disagree on the French part, sorry. For me it was a million times easier to learn English than learning French and I'm fluent in Spanish. French is a bitch.

That's really surprising.
What's your native tongue ?
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Ace_Rimmer
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 9:35 am 
 

Groove is a good thing in metal. Maybe a lot of the "groove" metal bands were crappy nu-metally stuff, but a killer groove you can lock onto is a great thing. Especially live. Decapitated got better as they got more groovy man.

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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:07 am 
 

Ace_Rimmer wrote:
Groove is a good thing in metal. Maybe a lot of the "groove" metal bands were crappy nu-metally stuff, but a killer groove you can lock onto is a great thing. Especially live. Decapitated got better as they got more groovy man.


I disagree with the example of Decapitated. Their first three records are their best, hands down. But having groove in your music can be a good thing indeed. A lot of metalheads, sadly, associate groove with nu-metal and draw stupid conclusions whenever a band has groove metal elements in their sound. I mean, I've seen people call bands like Blood Red Throne nu-metal, ffs. And the fact that there are still folks doing mental gymnastics to associate Gojira to nu-metal is another example of how deeply rooted this idea is that groove = nu-metal, even if it's not always the case.

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Benedict Donald
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:21 am 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
Ace_Rimmer wrote:
Groove is a good thing in metal. Maybe a lot of the "groove" metal bands were crappy nu-metally stuff, but a killer groove you can lock onto is a great thing. Especially live. Decapitated got better as they got more groovy man.


I disagree with the example of Decapitated. Their first three records are their best, hands down. But having groove in your music can be a good thing indeed. A lot of metalheads, sadly, associate groove with nu-metal and draw stupid conclusions whenever a band has groove metal elements in their sound. I mean, I've seen people call bands like Blood Red Throne nu-metal, ffs. And the fact that there are still folks doing mental gymnastics to associate Gojira to nu-metal is another example of how deeply rooted this idea is that groove = nu-metal, even if it's not always the case.


Good points. I'd argue that classic 70s Sabbath is rife with groove....it was a huge component of their sound. I'm not a musician and might be misspeaking here, but that's how it "feels" to me.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:23 am 
 

If groove means like old Budgie, Hendrix or Sabbath, or 80s bands like Siouxsie or something, then I'm all for that in metal.
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DoomMetalAlchemist
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:23 am 
 

Benedict Donald wrote:

Good points. I'd argue that classic 70s Sabbath is rife with groove....it was a huge component of their sound.


The best example I can think of this is the main riff of Lord of this World.

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Ace_Rimmer
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:38 am 
 

I was just listening to stuff like Immolation Close to a World Below and its so disjointed and atonal and I have a hard time finding something to latch onto. Some good riffing in there but the songs seem to be built around not moving to them.

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Twisted_Psychology
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:38 am 
 

I can't remember if I said it in another thread or earlier in this one, but I still maintain that stoner metal is the real "groove metal." Pantera doesn't make me want to dance for shit but I'll vibe along to Kyuss anytime. What we call groove metal is more like post-thrash.
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DoomMetalAlchemist
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:43 am 
 

Twisted_Psychology wrote:
I can't remember if I said it in another thread or earlier in this one, but I still maintain that stoner metal is the real "groove metal." Pantera doesn't make me want to dance for shit but I'll vibe along to Kyuss anytime. What we call groove metal is more like post-thrash.


I think Pantera-core(TM) got labeled groove metal because of stuff like the main riff of Walk. Not much to it, the sole purpose of the riff is to just settle into a simple groove.

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Benedict Donald
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:54 am 
 

DoomMetalAlchemist wrote:
Benedict Donald wrote:

Good points. I'd argue that classic 70s Sabbath is rife with groove....it was a huge component of their sound.


The best example I can think of this is the main riff of Lord of this World.


Indeed! "Sabbra Cadabra" and "Behind the Wall of Sleep" also come to mind.

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Ace_Rimmer
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:59 am 
 

Bolt Thrower has some massive grooves that make you want to do full body headbanging and run over shit. Of coruse I like music that is less groovy but I think it gets too much heat in metal. And yes Sabbath has some massive grooves going on.

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DoomMetalAlchemist
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:26 am 
 

Benedict Donald wrote:
DoomMetalAlchemist wrote:
Benedict Donald wrote:

Good points. I'd argue that classic 70s Sabbath is rife with groove....it was a huge component of their sound.


The best example I can think of this is the main riff of Lord of this World.


Indeed! "Sabbra Cadabra" and "Behind the Wall of Sleep" also come to mind.


Your mention of Sabbra Cadabra made me realize I forgot about A National Acrobat.

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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:41 pm 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
HeavenDuff wrote:
This is an interesting discussion to have for sure, and one I'm definitely willing to have if you're interested, but in this context we are not talking about mastering a language, which could translate into being a skilled writer, poet, litterature specialist or linguist, we are talking about being a competent speaker of one or multiple languages. The musical equivalent to this would a guy like Austin Lunn from Panopticon, who is a multi-instrumentalist and plays each instrument well-enough to be able to release more then competent black metal, while not being a virtuoso of any of his instruments.

There are quite a few examples of multi-instrumentalists playing quality music, just like there are a lot of people who are bilingual, trilingual or else. If I was to learn a third language, I would probably not get any worse in French or English, which are both languages I speak fluently and every day. If anything, learning another language would most likely just help me improve in both French and English, as a new language could give me another perspective, another point of view and tools to understand the other languages I already speak.

For instance, learning to speak Spanish, for someone who speaks French is the linguistic equivalent of a guitarist learning to play bass. There are so many common things between the two. And learning Spanish would definitely not make me any less good in French.

I agree with most of what you said. Besides, there's a point where no matter how much you speak a certain language, you aren't getting any better. No matter how much I speak my native tongue, it won't improve unless I invest some serious time and study it in depth. To reach that level of knowledge in my mother tongue I haven't invested my whole life, so it's only logical that other people can be fluent in it and also be fluent in other languages.

Attaining and maintaining the basic level on proficiency in two languages shouldn't be difficult for someone who has learned and studied them since he or she was a child. A lot of people I know actually can, since my country has six official languages and most of my friends that speak two or more them are as proficient in my mother tongue as I am. Sure, it has some advantages and some disadvantages but as you said, being fluent in a language isn't the same as being a virtuoso. I'm pretty sure most people you meet on the street aren't secretly Foster Wallace.


I think the three of us mostly agree, just maybe differing on some subtleties. In terms of practical everyday conversation, a low level of competence is all that is needed. The extreme of dedicated study is where I think the difference is though. Part of retaining fluency is that you're actively engaged in the language on a regular basis. If you suddenly completely stopped speaking and writing in your second language, and exclusively began to study say, Chinese, your skills in that second language would atrophy over time. You would gain some connections and have some epiphanies about the relation between them, but at some point you would be worse at that second language than you were before overall in spite of occasionally adding other related bits of knowledge.

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Lee Harrison
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:57 pm 
 

Ace_Rimmer wrote:
I was just listening to stuff like Immolation Close to a World Below and its so disjointed and atonal and I have a hard time finding something to latch onto. Some good riffing in there but the songs seem to be built around not moving to them.

Try with headphones before sleeping and repeat until you came at conclusion that is one of best song ever..

If don’t work I’ll feel sorry for you…

You’ll miss a milestone
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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 1:06 pm 
 

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
I think the three of us mostly agree, just maybe differing on some subtleties. In terms of practical everyday conversation, a low level of competence is all that is needed. The extreme of dedicated study is where I think the difference is though. Part of retaining fluency is that you're actively engaged in the language on a regular basis. If you suddenly completely stopped speaking and writing in your second language, and exclusively began to study say, Chinese, your skills in that second language would atrophy over time. You would gain some connections and have some epiphanies about the relation between them, but at some point you would be worse at that second language than you were before overall in spite of occasionally adding other related bits of knowledge.


But we are not talking about not using your second language for an extended period of time. We were initally talking about this idea, that if people speak many languages, they will in general, be less fluent/less proficient then if they only spoke one. Which is not true. Speaking more then one language actually helps you improve your other languages as they offer different perspectives on languages in general. The fact that I speak English on a regular basis has absolutely no negative impact whatsoever on the quality of my French, which is my first language that I've spoken since I spoke my very first word, and have studied continuously in school from age 4 to age 20, and that I've been evaluated on even after that through college and grad school.

Of course, now, to learn a third language, it would have to be a language I would practice on a regular basis, ideally in day-to-day life, but that's completely different then saying that bilingual people would somehow be less proficient in both language then people who are unilingual in the sole language they speak.

Edit: And to keep this discussion connected to music, being a competent/fluent speaker of 2 or more languages is the equivalent of playing different instruments, like many of your favorite musicians do, well enough to be able to play in professional and renowned bands without anyone questionning their ability to play said instrument. So unless you're trying to be Ron Jarzombek (Blotted Science, Spastic Ink) or Michael Romeo (Symphony X), you really don't need to play just one instrument. You can be an Austin Lunn (Panopticon, Dämmerfarben, Seidr), a Gabriele Gramaglia (Cosmic Putrefaction, Vertebra Atlantis, The Clearing Path) or Isaac Faulk (Stormkeep, Abysmal Dimensions, Blood Incantation, Lykotonon).

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des91
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Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:51 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:38 pm 
 

Lee Harrison wrote:
Ace_Rimmer wrote:
I was just listening to stuff like Immolation Close to a World Below and its so disjointed and atonal and I have a hard time finding something to latch onto. Some good riffing in there but the songs seem to be built around not moving to them.

Try with headphones before sleeping and repeat until you came at conclusion that is one of best song ever..

If don’t work I’ll feel sorry for you…

You’ll miss a milestone


I tried on that album as well and it really is pretty hard for me to listen to. Which is weird because I LOVE Obscura. But Immolation just never clicked with me, though I do respect them tremendously.

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Ace_Rimmer
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 4:25 pm 
 

des91 wrote:
Lee Harrison wrote:
Ace_Rimmer wrote:
I was just listening to stuff like Immolation Close to a World Below and its so disjointed and atonal and I have a hard time finding something to latch onto. Some good riffing in there but the songs seem to be built around not moving to them.

Try with headphones before sleeping and repeat until you came at conclusion that is one of best song ever..

If don’t work I’ll feel sorry for you…

You’ll miss a milestone


I tried on that album as well and it really is pretty hard for me to listen to. Which is weird because I LOVE Obscura. But Immolation just never clicked with me, though I do respect them tremendously.


Yeah, there isn't a lot of flow to this. Maybe that is what some people like.

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Gemini 7 Rising
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 5:52 pm 
 

des91 wrote:
Lee Harrison wrote:
Ace_Rimmer wrote:
I was just listening to stuff like Immolation Close to a World Below and its so disjointed and atonal and I have a hard time finding something to latch onto. Some good riffing in there but the songs seem to be built around not moving to them.

Try with headphones before sleeping and repeat until you came at conclusion that is one of best song ever..

If don’t work I’ll feel sorry for you…

You’ll miss a milestone


I tried on that album as well and it really is pretty hard for me to listen to. Which is weird because I LOVE Obscura. But Immolation just never clicked with me, though I do respect them tremendously.


I think the very foundation of a band like Immolation, what it's fundamentally built upon, is the idea of NOT giving you anything to really hold onto. Not allowing you the comfort of hooks, patterns, familiarity, melody, etc. Therefore it is very jarring and disorienting to listen to, but that's a very extreme metal concept so it really fits the overall philosophy of death metal, which is facing death, the horrific, the unknown, the transgressive, and so on- all of those things which the average person would rather put out of their minds and not think about. So the music is reflecting that (I realize I'm stating the somewhat obvious here).

Immolation was a big hurdle for me too until the day they finally clicked. But before that, I just knew they were a classic DM band that I was "supposed" to like, so I kept trying. Now I think they're great, a good go-to when you want a break from the more straightforward approach of bands like Nile, Cannibal Corpse, Hate Eternal, etc. And yeah, Gorguts' 'Obscura' or even a band like Deeds of Flesh are similar in that they really don't give you much to hold onto but rather go for that disorienting 'wtf' formula. It's a challenge to "break through" but very rewarding when you do.
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Zerberus
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 4:18 am 
 

Ace_Rimmer wrote:
Groove is a good thing in metal. Maybe a lot of the "groove" metal bands were crappy nu-metally stuff, but a killer groove you can lock onto is a great thing. Especially live. Decapitated got better as they got more groovy man.


Absolutely - As an example, I love grindcore, but I specifically prefer grindcore with an underlying groove. But groove metal as a genre... No.
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Lee Harrison
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:22 am 
 

Immolation are very hard listening for someone,I don’t like at beginning but I don’t give up I have tried and tried again until they are became my fav band.

So I understand your point of view…
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snarg
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:09 pm 
 

Since the inception of this thread that I've been meaning to post this but didn't because I knew I was going to get a lot of shit for it, but today I had a crap day at work and my masochist self is up for more punishment so here goes nothing:

Metal this past 7 years (2015 and up) has been the best it ever was, vastly surpassing what was done back "in the old days" like many like to praise.

There, shoot me.

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Hexenmacht46290
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:40 pm 
 

I think what you said is reasonable. There are a lot of good newer bands, good new albums, and good shows.
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Lee Harrison
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:10 pm 
 

snarg wrote:
Since the inception of this thread that I've been meaning to post this but didn't because I knew I was going to get a lot of shit for it, but today I had a crap day at work and my masochist self is up for more punishment so here goes nothing:

Metal this past 7 years (2015 and up) has been the best it ever was, vastly surpassing what was done back "in the old days" like many like to praise.

There, shoot me.

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LilTito
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:15 pm 
 

snarg wrote:
Since the inception of this thread that I've been meaning to post this but didn't because I knew I was going to get a lot of shit for it, but today I had a crap day at work and my masochist self is up for more punishment so here goes nothing:

Metal this past 7 years (2015 and up) has been the best it ever was, vastly surpassing what was done back "in the old days" like many like to praise.

There, shoot me.

I would agree when it comes to extreme metal, i.e. death and black metal. My favorite releases have all been from the last two decades

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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:59 pm 
 

snarg wrote:
Since the inception of this thread that I've been meaning to post this but didn't because I knew I was going to get a lot of shit for it, but today I had a crap day at work and my masochist self is up for more punishment so here goes nothing:

Metal this past 7 years (2015 and up) has been the best it ever was, vastly surpassing what was done back "in the old days" like many like to praise.


Well, it's kind of hard to compare 45 years of music (1970 to 2015) to 7 years of music (2015 to now), not only because of the time frame difference, but also because there can be a bunch of criteria involved in evaluating this, and the body of work is extremely vast. One could make the annoying, but still valid, argument that metal wouldn't be the same without the foundations given by the classics, and that everything made in the last 7 years, relies heavily on the quality work that was done prior to that.

But if we put this aside for the moment, there is a good argument to be made in favor of metal from the last seven years or so. I'm also extremely happy with what has been released over the last seven years. Some of my favorite music comes from that time period, and metal showns absolutely no sign of slowing down. One would think that older metal subgenres would be losing speed over time, but doom and heavy metal are still going strong, and the genres born of the late 80's and 90's, such as death and black metal have been producing some of their best material in recent years. And that's saying a lot considering the strenght of the founders of both genres.

So I can't say, without a doubt, that what was made since 2015 up to now is definitely the best metal has ever produced, but I can definitely understand why someone would think that.

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Lee Harrison
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 8:48 am 
 

Turbo is a decent album
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 12:17 pm 
 

There's been a lot of really excellent stuff in recent years, though I wouldn't say it necessarily beats the older stuff.

I mostly just object to the idea that this new wave of trad bands is superior to a Manilla Road or Fates Warning. Just not a thing I'm on board with.
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Twisted_Psychology
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 11:22 pm 
 

I don’t think metal from the last seven years has been superior to everything that came before but I have run into a multitude of albums that are equal in quality to the best of the best from yesteryear, which feels like a hot take in itself at this point.
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rarezuzuh
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Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:33 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 11:31 pm 
 

What are a few of those albums, if you don't mind sharing?

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Cosmic_Equilibrium
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:03 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:07 am 
 

There has been some discussion on Youthanasia recently so here's why I consider it to be possibly Megadeth's best album.

Firstly, it's musically very consistent in a way many of their previous albums weren't. Genuinely great song writing with lots of hooks and a nice heavy production too.

Secondly, this is the darkest album of the band's career. It should be noted that Mustaine was really at the end of his tether at this point. Aside from having to deal with the changing commercial directions of the 90s and the record label pressure that resulted, around this time his drug habits took a bleak turn in direction. Firstly, he apparently began injecting heroin regularly (as opposed to previous years when it hadn't been his main method of taking the drug). Secondly, his mentor on the rehab programme that he'd been on had a relapse and overdosed (Addicted to Chaos is basically about this).

These events led to a very bleak period for Mustaine where for the first time he felt that he couldn't win the battle against his addictions. Youthanasia is as a result an album made by a man who saw the grave opening before him, and consequently it's the darkest and bleakest album ever penned by not just Megadeth but maybe the entire Big 4. So many of the lyrics and Mustaine's delivery of them have a desperate and at times resigned feel, the sound of a person who believes they may essentially be writing their last record. Many of them also have a tone of regret, as if Mustaine was looking back on his life and the choices he'd made to get to where he was at that point.

Mustaine recovered eventually, and got his life back on track, but the context of how he was feeling and what he was doing at the time of Youthanasia's writing and recording gives the album a real emotional depth and heft that isn't really found elsewhere in Megadeth's discography to quite the same extent.

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Lagartija
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:27 am
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:46 am 
 

Hexenmacht46290 wrote:
High Command is a crossover band, that sounds like Power Trip, not typical sword wielding music. But their vocalist brandishes a sword onstage. They’ve only been around a few years, but they’re more convincingly barbaric than modern Manowar.

I love High Command. Doesn't Eternal Champion do the same with the sword? They could be described as a more down-to-Earth, DIY Manowar.

Re previous post about Megadeth, wow, I didn't know any of that. I thought Dave cleaned up long before 'Youthanasia'...
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Gravetemplar
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:22 am 
 

I also agree the last decade has given us some of the best metal ever recorded. Some of that stuff I'm talking about is as good as most of the classics.

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RedMisanthrope
Poet Laureate of the Old Ones

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:55 am 
 

Enslaved's "Frost" is a good album, not a great one.
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kovner1972
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:33 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:10 am 
 

I also dig Gorguts' Obscura but for the life of me I cannot stand Immolation's music.
I have been trying since its debut so many years ago to get into that band, but their music is so boring for me I just gave up.
I tried them again some years ago, I think it was 'Here In After', only to push the stop button in disgust after a couple of songs. Couldn't stand them then and still can't stand them now and I don't give a flying fuck how 'sacred' this band is in the eyes of the masses.

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Gravetemplar
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:50 am 
 

kovner1972 wrote:
I also dig Gorguts' Obscura but for the life of me I cannot stand Immolation's music.
I have been trying since its debut so many years ago to get into that band, but their music is so boring for me I just gave up.
I tried them again some years ago, I think it was 'Here In After', only to push the stop button in disgust after a couple of songs. Couldn't stand them then and still can't stand them now and I don't give a flying fuck how 'sacred' this band is in the eyes of the masses.

The last one is pretty cool, I recommend it to anyone trying to get into the bad.


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kovner1972
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:33 pm
Posts: 99
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:24 am 
 

It's not that I don't like dissonant, atonal, quirky, unorthodox music -- I dig many an avant-garde musical endeavors, from Gorguts' Obscura, Atrocity's Hallucinations, Korova's A Kiss In The Charnel Fields, to Diamanda Galas, French zeuhl band Shub Niggurath, Jon Zorn, O.L.D.'s Lo Flux Tube etc etc ad nauseam -- it's just that Immolation's music bores me to tears.

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Demon Fang
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:42 am
Posts: 323
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:52 am 
 

^ me with Immolation past Unholy Cult, at any rate. Early Immolation is based.

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