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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:21 pm 
 

I'm not a big fan of King Diamond myself, but it feels weird and wrong to say that he's a bad vocalist. Dude has skills and clearly found his niche of over-the-top theatrical metal. I'm glad Mercyful Fate exists the way it does, and I like seeing how passionate King Diamond's fans are about his work. Sure it's cheesy and campy, but who cares. It's all in good fun.

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LongHairIsSoFuckingCool
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Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:22 am
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:24 pm 
 

Messiah is an amazing fucking singer.

"My fingers they dance upon the strings like fire. Weaving a spell of my burning.. ...DESIRE!"

This line alone and how he sings it is all the proof you need of that.
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The Bard with Bright Eyes
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:31 pm 
 

Benedict Donald wrote:
The Bard with Bright Eyes wrote:

Another unpopular opinion (and I'm pretty sure I'm the only person who holds this stance): there is nothing wrong whatsoever with the interludes on Nightfall in Middle-Earth.


Nothing inherently "wrong" with them, they're just dumb and 'in the way'.


It's this very stance that I disagree with. To me, they are a perfect bridge between the songs. Take The Minstrel, for instance. A beautiful acoustic piece in it's own right, but it also works well both as an outro to Nightfall, as well as an intro to The Curse of Feanor.

LongHairIsSoFuckingCool wrote:
The Bard with Bright Eyes wrote:
Another unpopular opinion (and I'm pretty sure I'm the only person who holds this stance): there is nothing wrong whatsoever with the interludes on Nightfall in Middle-Earth.

Another unpopular opinion (and I'm pretty sure I'm the only person who holds this stance): The Lord of the Rings is a pernicious confirmation of the values of a declining nation with a morally bankrupt class whose cowardly self-protection is primarily responsible for the problems England answered with the ruthless logic of Thatcherism. Humanity was derided and marginalised. Sentimentality became the acceptable subsitute. So few people seem to be able to tell the difference.


That's an... um... interesting take. I'd probably have a better idea of what you speak if I had more knowledge regarding British politics.

King_of_Arnor wrote:
^^ how does that have anything to do with the music? And the interludes are fine, you can just skip over if you don't like them.


This. Personally, I never feel the need to skip them (not even the spoken interludes; cheesy as it may be, I love the voice acting), but if one doesn't wish to go through them, they can just skip them. They're not the same track as the songs, unlike, say, Testament's The New Order or Riot's The Privilege of Power.
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Now I understand that we aren’t more capable of read a book or listen a cd more than 30 min but came on really we deserve that,are we reduced to amoebas?

I hope not

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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:43 pm 
 

LongHairIsSoFuckingCool wrote:
Messiah is an amazing fucking singer.

"My fingers they dance upon the strings like fire. Weaving a spell of my burning.. ...DESIRE!"

This line alone and how he sings it is all the proof you need of that.


Dude invented the Doom Dance. He's a legend!

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Gravetemplar
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:48 pm 
 

The Bard with Bright Eyes wrote:
Benedict Donald wrote:
The Bard with Bright Eyes wrote:

Another unpopular opinion (and I'm pretty sure I'm the only person who holds this stance): there is nothing wrong whatsoever with the interludes on Nightfall in Middle-Earth.


Nothing inherently "wrong" with them, they're just dumb and 'in the way'.


It's this very stance that I disagree with. To me, they are a perfect bridge between the songs. Take The Minstrel, for instance. A beautiful acoustic piece in it's own right, but it also works well both as an outro to Nightfall, as well as an intro to The Curse of Feanor.

LongHairIsSoFuckingCool wrote:
The Bard with Bright Eyes wrote:
Another unpopular opinion (and I'm pretty sure I'm the only person who holds this stance): there is nothing wrong whatsoever with the interludes on Nightfall in Middle-Earth.

Another unpopular opinion (and I'm pretty sure I'm the only person who holds this stance): The Lord of the Rings is a pernicious confirmation of the values of a declining nation with a morally bankrupt class whose cowardly self-protection is primarily responsible for the problems England answered with the ruthless logic of Thatcherism. Humanity was derided and marginalised. Sentimentality became the acceptable subsitute. So few people seem to be able to tell the difference.


That's an... um... interesting take. I'd probably have a better idea of what you speak if I had more knowledge regarding British politics.

King_of_Arnor wrote:
^^ how does that have anything to do with the music? And the interludes are fine, you can just skip over if you don't like them.


This. Personally, I never feel the need to skip them (not even the spoken interludes; cheesy as it may be, I love the voice acting), but if one doesn't wish to go through them, they can just skip them. They're not the same track as the songs, unlike, say, Testament's The New Order or Riot's The Privilege of Power.

"You can just skip them" is a really poor argument. Imagine using that same argument with any other cultural media. Is this book boring? No! Just skip the bad chapters!

That being said, the official version without the interludes is just a million light years better.

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LongHairIsSoFuckingCool
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Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:22 am
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:56 pm 
 

The Bard with Bright Eyes wrote:
LongHairIsSoFuckingCool wrote:
Another unpopular opinion (and I'm pretty sure I'm the only person who holds this stance): The Lord of the Rings is a pernicious confirmation of the values of a declining nation with a morally bankrupt class whose cowardly self-protection is primarily responsible for the problems England answered with the ruthless logic of Thatcherism. Humanity was derided and marginalised. Sentimentality became the acceptable subsitute. So few people seem to be able to tell the difference.


That's an... um... interesting take. I'd probably have a better idea of what you speak if I had more knowledge regarding British politics.

I actually took that take from this essay about Lord of the Rings. It's really good and why I won't check out that series.

https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/arts/english/ ... c_pooh.pdf
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:18 pm 
 

God it's amazing how stupid it is to have that strong of an opinion on something you never actually read. Just say you don't really have an interest, that's all that's needed.
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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:25 pm 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
"You can just skip them" is a really poor argument. Imagine using that same argument with any other cultural media. Is this book boring? No! Just skip the bad chapters!

That being said, the official version without the interludes is just a million light years better.


They are very short skits and absolutely not essential for the album to hold together. Unlike chapters of a book, which are essential to understanding the story.

Still, I personnally like the skits when I listen to the album in full, but when I want to listen to just a few tracks, I skip the skits.

They don't ruin the album in anyway though.

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Ace_Rimmer
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:43 pm 
 

The interludes on NIME are part of the concept album and its flow and story. I never skip them.


Hot take, Messiah is probably 4th on the list of best Candlemas vocalists. His doom dance is lame as fuck.

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interstellar_medium
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:49 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
Speaking more then one language actually helps you improve your other languages as they offer different perspectives on languages in general. The fact that I speak English on a regular basis has absolutely no negative impact whatsoever on the quality of my French, which is my first language that I've spoken since I spoke my very first word, and have studied continuously in school from age 4 to age 20, and that I've been evaluated on even after that through college and grad school.


There's that thing called "negative transfer", though? It's most evident with set expressions, and it can affect your L1 as well. Maybe it's less evident with relatively close language pairs like French and English, but with Russian speakers you can often notice that if a person uses English professionally day in day out, literal translations of English expressions that have no Russian counterparts tend to creep into their Russian, especially if the person is stressed out. Speaking from experience LOL

Ace_Rimmer wrote:
The interludes on NIME are part of the concept album and its flow and story. I never skip them.


Same!

Ace_Rimmer wrote:
Hot take, Messiah is probably 4th on the list of best Candlemas vocalists. His doom dance is lame as fuck.


Want a hotter take? I could never get into Candlemass at all XD Give me Solitude Aeternus over them any day... even Lowe couldn't make me enjoy Candlemass, though gods, I tried...

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LongHairIsSoFuckingCool
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:25 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
God it's amazing how stupid it is to have that strong of an opinion on something you never actually read. Just say you don't really have an interest, that's all that's needed.

But I'd rather be a dick also A Wild Sheep Chase is probably better.
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Lee Harrison
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:24 pm 
 

LongHairIsSoFuckingCool wrote:
The Bard with Bright Eyes wrote:
Another unpopular opinion (and I'm pretty sure I'm the only person who holds this stance): there is nothing wrong whatsoever with the interludes on Nightfall in Middle-Earth.

Another unpopular opinion (and I'm pretty sure I'm the only person who holds this stance): The Lord of the Rings is a pernicious confirmation of the values of a declining nation with a morally bankrupt class whose cowardly self-protection is primarily responsible for the problems England answered with the ruthless logic of Thatcherism. Humanity was derided and marginalised. Sentimentality became the acceptable subsitute. So few people seem to be able to tell the difference.

No is more an erotic novel with a political subtext of fight vs inaqualities with orwellian influence…
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Lord_Of_Diamonds
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:01 pm 
 

That's too good of a combination of broken English and hilarious interpretation for me to not make it my signature.
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The Bard with Bright Eyes
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:28 am 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
"You can just skip them" is a really poor argument. Imagine using that same argument with any other cultural media. Is this book boring? No! Just skip the bad chapters!

That being said, the official version without the interludes is just a million light years better.


You cannot compare a 30 second interlude to a (comparatively longer) chapter of a book or an episode of a TV show which doesn't advance the plot in any way. For one thing, when you encounter a filler while reading a book, chances are that the next few chapters are also filler, so you may resort to using Internet or asking an acquaintance to see where the book gets back on track. On NiME, it's just one press of a button (two in the final case of Out on the Water and The Steadfast that are between When Sorrow Sang and The Dark Passage) and you're good to go.

The interludes are more redolent of the half-a-page summaries of the following/preceding chapter that some books use. Nice to read them, but if you don't wish to, just turn the page.

LongHairIsSoFuckingCool wrote:
The Bard with Bright Eyes wrote:
LongHairIsSoFuckingCool wrote:
Another unpopular opinion (and I'm pretty sure I'm the only person who holds this stance): The Lord of the Rings is a pernicious confirmation of the values of a declining nation with a morally bankrupt class whose cowardly self-protection is primarily responsible for the problems England answered with the ruthless logic of Thatcherism. Humanity was derided and marginalised. Sentimentality became the acceptable subsitute. So few people seem to be able to tell the difference.


That's an... um... interesting take. I'd probably have a better idea of what you speak if I had more knowledge regarding British politics.

I actually took that take from this essay about Lord of the Rings. It's really good and why I won't check out that series.

https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/arts/english/ ... c_pooh.pdf


Seeing "By Michael Moorcock" was enough for me to know that the analysis would be no good. I like him a lot as a writer (I'm currently reading The Chronicles of Castle Brass series), but his criticisms of Tolkien make me want to gouge my eyes out. This critique in particular boils down to "OMG, Tolkien is an anti-urbanite, how dares he", and is just as bad as the "LotR is racist" analyses I've seen.

Ace_Rimmer wrote:
The interludes on NIME are part of the concept album and its flow and story. I never skip them.


Despite everyone saying contrary, NiME is not a concept album. Sure, the album deals with The Silmarillion, but a concept album narrates a story chronologically. NiME doesn't do that, nor does it attempt to. It doesn't start with the beginning of the story (else the album would begin either with the creation of Arda or the creation of the Silmarils), it doesn't conclude with the ending of the story (else it would close with either the downfall of Morgoth or the loss of the final two Silmarils) and it doesn't even tell the story chronologically (else Thorn would go either before Time Stands Still or after The Dark Passage). Not to mention that nobody who hasn't read The Silmarillion will understand what the lyrics are about specifically (although they are still very much enjoyable, it's just that reading the book makes them even more enjoyable). What NiME really is is a tribute to The Silmarillion. A musical fanfiction, and amazing one at that.
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Lee Harrison wrote:
Now I understand that we aren’t more capable of read a book or listen a cd more than 30 min but came on really we deserve that,are we reduced to amoebas?

I hope not

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joppek
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:48 am 
 

The Bard with Bright Eyes wrote:
Despite everyone saying contrary, NiME is not a concept album. Sure, the album deals with The Silmarillion, but a concept album narrates a story chronologically. NiME doesn't do that, nor does it attempt to. It doesn't start with the beginning of the story (else the album would begin either with the creation of Arda or the creation of the Silmarils), it doesn't conclude with the ending of the story (else it would close with either the downfall of Morgoth or the loss of the final two Silmarils) and it doesn't even tell the story chronologically (else Thorn would go either before Time Stands Still or after The Dark Passage). Not to mention that nobody who hasn't read The Silmarillion will understand what the lyrics are about specifically (although they are still very much enjoyable, it's just that reading the book makes them even more enjoyable). What NiME really is is a tribute to The Silmarillion. A musical fanfiction, and amazing one at that.


i don't hink you need to tell a story chronologically to have a concept album - out of order story telling is pretty common, and i see no reason why you couldn't apply it to a concept album, just as well as you would to a book, or a movie (whether it adds or detracts from the experience is a matter of opinion of course)
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Lee Harrison
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:00 am 
 

The interlude of Nightfall( intro excluded, war of wrath )are 5 minutes and 22 sec on a total length of 1h 5 m.
Now I understand that we aren’t more capable of read a book or listen a cd more than 30 min but came on really we deserve that,are we reduced to amoebas?

I hope not
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The Bard with Bright Eyes
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:24 am 
 

joppek wrote:
The Bard with Bright Eyes wrote:
Despite everyone saying contrary, NiME is not a concept album. Sure, the album deals with The Silmarillion, but a concept album narrates a story chronologically. NiME doesn't do that, nor does it attempt to. It doesn't start with the beginning of the story (else the album would begin either with the creation of Arda or the creation of the Silmarils), it doesn't conclude with the ending of the story (else it would close with either the downfall of Morgoth or the loss of the final two Silmarils) and it doesn't even tell the story chronologically (else Thorn would go either before Time Stands Still or after The Dark Passage). Not to mention that nobody who hasn't read The Silmarillion will understand what the lyrics are about specifically (although they are still very much enjoyable, it's just that reading the book makes them even more enjoyable). What NiME really is is a tribute to The Silmarillion. A musical fanfiction, and amazing one at that.


i don't hink you need to tell a story chronologically to have a concept album - out of order story telling is pretty common, and i see no reason why you couldn't apply it to a concept album, just as well as you would to a book, or a movie (whether it adds or detracts from the experience is a matter of opinion of course)


I understand you, but you're missing my point. NiME doesn't attempt to retell the story of The Silmarillion at all. It's only after you've read The Silmarillion that you can return to NiME and experience mindfucks left and right.

Lee Harrison wrote:
The interlude of Nightfall( intro excluded, war of wrath )are 5 minutes and 22 sec on a total length of 1h 5 m.
Now I understand that we aren’t more capable of read a book or listen a cd more than 30 min but came on really we deserve that,are we reduced to amoebas?

I hope not


I'll go down the same route Lord of Diamonds had. Brilliant.
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Lee Harrison wrote:
Now I understand that we aren’t more capable of read a book or listen a cd more than 30 min but came on really we deserve that,are we reduced to amoebas?

I hope not

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Ace_Rimmer
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:06 am 
 

I've read the Silmarillion and I put NIME in the concept album category. Its telling a fairly chronological version of key events of that book. Yes if you haven't read it you will not pick up on everything, and yes much will go right over your head, but I don't see how its not a concept album. Unless it needs a song detailing who exactly Feanor is, and stuff like that.

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Gravetemplar
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:14 pm 
 

The Bard with Bright Eyes wrote:
Gravetemplar wrote:
"You can just skip them" is a really poor argument. Imagine using that same argument with any other cultural media. Is this book boring? No! Just skip the bad chapters!

That being said, the official version without the interludes is just a million light years better.


You cannot compare a 30 second interlude to a (comparatively longer) chapter of a book or an episode of a TV show which doesn't advance the plot in any way. For one thing, when you encounter a filler while reading a book, chances are that the next few chapters are also filler, so you may resort to using Internet or asking an acquaintance to see where the book gets back on track. On NiME, it's just one press of a button (two in the final case of Out on the Water and The Steadfast that are between When Sorrow Sang and The Dark Passage) and you're good to go.

The interludes are more redolent of the half-a-page summaries of the following/preceding chapter that some books use. Nice to read them, but if you don't wish to, just turn the page.

So I have to be there pressing a button to skip them and what I get in return from my effort is listening to an album with skipped parts that ruin the atmosphere and the continuity of the music, constant stops, gaps, etc. That's what I call a flawless experience indeed!

Art is about a complete experience for me, nothing less. Skip the interludes, ignore the lyrics, don't look at the awful cover, the production isn't that important, skip the songs you don't like... I don't know, maybe listen to a better album? Which was my part from the beginning, I don't have the time to lose on some band that put 11 pointless interludes when I could be listening to better stuff. Thank god they released an abridged version with the interludes. At least Necros Christos add to the atmosphere even though I completely understand those who are annoyed by their interludes too.

All in all, most interludes are a cancer that should be eradicated from metal. Most of them are pointless and detract from the actual music.

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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:26 pm 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
So I have to be there pressing a button to skip them and what I get in return is listening to an album with skipped parts that ruin the atmosphere and the continuity of the music, constant stops, gaps, etc. That's what I call a flawless experience indeed!


Or remove the skits from your playlist entirely... it's not hard. And if you don't want the gaps, then don't skip them. Also not hard. This is such a minor inconvenience, a minor detail for an album that's very good. We are talking about 5 minutes of time, scattered over an album that's 65 minutes long. "Guys, I love the Two Towers movie, but I can't stand that Grima Wormtongue guy. He ruins the movie for me! HE RUINS IT!"

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:29 pm 
 

I'm a purist about this stuff, if I have to cut out songs or rearrange them or speed it up or slow it down, then it's obviously just not that good in my estimation. I like playing stuff how it's intended. Also Virgin Steele's Atreus I did the interlude thing much better than NIME. Flows way better.
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Benedict Donald
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:52 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
Gravetemplar wrote:
So I have to be there pressing a button to skip them and what I get in return is listening to an album with skipped parts that ruin the atmosphere and the continuity of the music, constant stops, gaps, etc. That's what I call a flawless experience indeed!


Or remove the skits from your playlist entirely... it's not hard. And if you don't want the gaps, then don't skip them. Also not hard.


Blind Guardian actually released a version of 'Nightfall' which excludes all interludes. It's available in the massive box set they released about a decade ago. I wonder if criticism of said interludes is what prompted it.

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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:27 pm 
 

Benedict Donald wrote:
Blind Guardian actually released a version of 'Nightfall' which excludes all interludes. It's available in the massive box set they released about a decade ago. I wonder if criticism of said interludes is what prompted it.


So there even is a version of the same album without the interludes. So it's a moot point and people are just complaining for the sake of it now.

Maybe they did this because of complaints, although I doubt it. The probably wanted to offer the option for people who don't like skits. Which is totally fine and actually quite commendable.

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Zelkiiro
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:49 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
I'm a purist about this stuff, if I have to cut out songs or rearrange them or speed it up or slow it down, then it's obviously just not that good in my estimation.

The newest Running Wild and Iron Maiden albums are an excellent example.

Except I'm not above slapping the 1.25x speed on them. If it can be used to make a song better, it should be used.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:54 pm 
 

Well the new Maiden is amazing the way it is. That was what I meant anyway.

Personally speeding stuff up is just gross to me honestly. No judgment on anyone else but I can't stand that idea.
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Gravetemplar
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:02 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
I'm a purist about this stuff, if I have to cut out songs or rearrange them or speed it up or slow it down, then it's obviously just not that good in my estimation.

This is a good sum up. If I have to change it to enjoy it, it's not that good.

HeavenDuff wrote:
Benedict Donald wrote:
Blind Guardian actually released a version of 'Nightfall' which excludes all interludes. It's available in the massive box set they released about a decade ago. I wonder if criticism of said interludes is what prompted it.


So there even is a version of the same album without the interludes. So it's a moot point and people are just complaining for the sake of it now.

Maybe they did this because of complaints, although I doubt it. The probably wanted to offer the option for people who don't like skits. Which is totally fine and actually quite commendable.

Which was my point from the beginning. The interludes make the album worse and I'm thankful they actually released a better version to fix it. But that doesn't change the fact that the original version still exists and could be better. Like sure, they released versions of Death Magnetic that doesn't sound as awful, but that doesn't mean the original one wasn't a huge fuck up.

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The Bard with Bright Eyes
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:11 pm 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
Skip the interludes, ignore the lyrics, don't look at the awful cover, the production isn't that important, skip the songs you don't like...


Slippery slope

HeavenDuff wrote:
Gravetemplar wrote:
So I have to be there pressing a button to skip them and what I get in return is listening to an album with skipped parts that ruin the atmosphere and the continuity of the music, constant stops, gaps, etc. That's what I call a flawless experience indeed!


Or remove the skits from your playlist entirely... it's not hard. And if you don't want the gaps, then don't skip them. Also not hard. This is such a minor inconvenience, a minor detail for an album that's very good. We are talking about 5 minutes of time, scattered over an album that's 65 minutes long. "Guys, I love the Two Towers movie, but I can't stand that Grima Wormtongue guy. He ruins the movie for me! HE RUINS IT!"


Hahahaha, you're saying it all for me.

Empyreal wrote:
Also Virgin Steele's Atreus I did the interlude thing much better than NIME. Flows way better.


The Atreus albums are also masterpieces (the second one a bit less so, but still). Both albums have implemented interludes excellently, only in two different ways.
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thrashinbatman
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:31 pm
Posts: 1455
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:09 pm 
 

Zelkiiro wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
I'm a purist about this stuff, if I have to cut out songs or rearrange them or speed it up or slow it down, then it's obviously just not that good in my estimation.

The newest Running Wild and Iron Maiden albums are an excellent example.

Except I'm not above slapping the 1.25x speed on them. If it can be used to make a song better, it should be used.

this is arguably worse than a song just being bad. a song having the potential to be good but just missing the mark is so much more disappointing.

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HeavenDuff
Veteran

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 3639
Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:10 pm 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
Which was my point from the beginning. The interludes make the album worse and I'm thankful they actually released a better version to fix it. But that doesn't change the fact that the original version still exists and could be better. Like sure, they released versions of Death Magnetic that doesn't sound as awful, but that doesn't mean the original one wasn't a huge fuck up.


This is such a self-centered way to approach art. They didn't "fix" the release, as the skits were objectively a creative decision that the guys made because they are fans of Tolkien and Middle-Earth, and that is very defendable. A lot of fans of Blind Guardian and Tolkien enjoy the interludes and feel that they add something to the experience. This has nothing to do with the garbage production and mixing of Death Magnetic which was just the result of Rubin having no clue how to mix a metal record and compressing the hell out of it. And before anyone tells me that the production on Death Magnetic is a creative decision, no it's not, it's just part of a dumb trend called the loudness war that plagued (and still plagues, to a certain extent) metal at the time.

And the version without the interludes exists. You guys are just going on long ass rants for such a needlessly critical reason.

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entzauberung
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:49 am
Posts: 29
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:14 pm 
 

Ace_Rimmer wrote:
The interludes on NIME are part of the concept album and its flow and story. I never skip them.


Hot take, Messiah is probably 4th on the list of best Candlemas vocalists. His doom dance is lame as fuck.


I agree with this hot take. May even be my least favourite, but I never heard the Vikström album.

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Chaosmonger
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:59 pm
Posts: 1317
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:55 pm 
 

there's people that don't like the interludes on Nightfall? They're all super short and listenable.

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Zerberus
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:29 pm
Posts: 2080
Location: Silkeborg, Denmark
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:55 am 
 

Chaosmonger wrote:
there's people that don't like the interludes on Nightfall? They're all super short and listenable.


I know right? Nightfall is one of my favourite albums, I barely even notice the interludes because they take up such little space.
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LilTito
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 3:10 pm
Posts: 260
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:48 am 
 

Well, been some time since i posted an unpopular opinion, here you go:

Overly fast metal can't be heavy, i.e. grindcore, black metal etc.

Prove me wrong

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The Bard with Bright Eyes
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:48 am
Posts: 94
Location: Bosnia and Herzegovina
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:18 am 
 

LilTito wrote:
Well, been some time since i posted an unpopular opinion, here you go:

Overly fast metal can't be heavy, i.e. grindcore, black metal etc.

Prove me wrong


Three words: Pleasure to Kill
Another three words: Epidemic of Violence

I do agree with grindcore and black metal not being all that heavy, though.
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I hope not

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kovner1972
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:33 pm
Posts: 99
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:49 am 
 

LilTito wrote:
Well, been some time since i posted an unpopular opinion, here you go:

Overly fast metal can't be heavy, i.e. grindcore, black metal etc.

Prove me wrong


Proven wrong easily: Bolt Thrower's Realm Of Chaos. May not be pure grindcore, but holy shit. The closest grindcore could ever touch death metal.
Another example: Blood's Impulse To Destroy. The heaviest grindcore in the universe.
On a philosophical note, what is heavy anyways?

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Xymosys
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:19 am
Posts: 868
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:14 am 
 

LilTito wrote:
Well, been some time since i posted an unpopular opinion, here you go:

Overly fast metal can't be heavy, i.e. grindcore, black metal etc.

Prove me wrong


Vader's Litany
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CreepingDeath16
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2021 12:49 am
Posts: 387
Location: Hyperborea
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:19 am 
 

LilTito wrote:
Well, been some time since i posted an unpopular opinion, here you go:

Overly fast metal can't be heavy, i.e. grindcore, black metal etc.

Prove me wrong

Well, that depends on entirely what you mean by "heavy". If you define it for example as crushing, doomy slowness, then your opinion is entirely valid. I most likely agree to some degree, since in my opinion not all that is heavy is metal, and in fact not all metal is heavy.
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Hexenmacht46290
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:30 pm
Posts: 606
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:28 pm 
 

The fact, that most of this forum agrees, when “no motherfucking hootie and the blowfish” shows up, in some thread about bad lyrics, is fucking depressing. That’s what you call a good lyric.

Most of this forum is ashamed to admit that they like heavy metal, and would rather listen to something else, that normies like, or that university professors and music critics like. There was a post, a few posts back, about how metal is “thespian,” and doesn’t have authentic emotion. This is like thinking that all science fiction and fantasy is “lowbrow,” and inferior to “literary fiction.” Well guess what? 90% of everything is crap. Most of “the classics,” of literature, are only rated highly, because few people could read or write back then, or because some king, or religion, told people to read them, and because school teachers tell people that it’s good, so people just repeat what they’re told. Fictional stories aren’t “better,” if they’re set in the real world, rather than a fictional world. And a lot of “real” art, is inauthentic, packaged garbage.

Metal isn’t some inferior form of art. It’s not lesser art, just because it uses guitars, because it’s rock and roll, because it’s not mainstream, because it expresses anger(the same people who are against this, claim that they want authentic emotion, in art), or because it’s mostly played by men. Maybe, those music critics, who warn against “gatekeeping,” should take their own advice. The vast majority of underground metal is made by people who don’t have a hope of getting rich and famous off of the music, but want to have fun, and give a positive experience to the fans. That makes it more authentic, than something, where the producer wrote the instrumentals, and the vocals are all processed, and the music is approved by label marketing committees, if it will make profit for the shareholders.

Metal is a legitimate form of art, even if university professors and music critics hate it, or ignore it. No slave ship, no worship, no motherfucking hootie and the blowfish!(unless you like hootie and the blowfish, it’s your life, and these are all just opinions and personal preferences anyways).
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HeavenDuff
Veteran

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 3639
Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:17 pm 
 

I agree with Hexenmacht46290 here. It's become all too common here for people to leave very negative comments about metal in general. Not only is it odd for me, as this is a website dedicated to metal music. So unless we are somehow being invaded by very decidated trolls, we are indeed dealing with metalheads who are either ashamed of their interests and/or metalheads who have internalized the anti-metal rhetoric of various detractors of the genre, whoever they are.

Our music doesn't have deep, all encompassing flaws that plague the genre all across the board, regardless of subgenre. Metal as a genre, is one of the most creativity and artistry driven genre in modern music, for the reasons Hexen has stated. Most of metal music is not driven by capitalistic motivations of turning a huge profit for labels, businesses, shareholders and whatnot. It is, by it's very essence one of the most genuine, authentic and honest form of artistic expression.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 32358
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:30 pm 
 

I'm not at all ashamed to like metal, I just have my own standards for what is considered to be good metal and bad metal, which might seem different from others'.
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