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motorsport
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Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 10:48 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:18 am 
 

Anthony Pwl wrote:
asmfc wrote:
What was the final verdict in the story?

To my knowledge there is none.
And that is a problem. DiSanto hasn't been judged (again, correct me if im wrong). No trial took place, no verdict delivered.
The only fact we got since 3 years, is seeing him in a 10 seconds video where he pushes his wife on a bed, throws a pillow at her and yells "leave me alone!". This is not a thing to do with one's partner, but this kind of situation can pop in the middle of a bad argument where both sides go off the rails.
That is the investigators' freaking job to know if the domestic abuse was mutual or not, if there were actual hits (with hands, feet, or dangerous items) or not. This is not ours.

asmfc wrote:
Either way I see no reason to be happy that a band was cancelled due to this

People want blood and tears, and feel powerful over someone. They want to be the judge and the jury. No official sentence, therefore some internet vigilantes and mob justice supporters go berserk on their keyboards to prevent DiSanto to sell his music again. They won with Century Media, so no doubt they will try another music label pantsing in the future.
Schadenfreude as well. Tabloids sell big time when there is a story with a fall from stardom. Vektor really was one of the "next big things" in underground metal last decade, so at their scale, they were pretty famous. It makes some happy (we read it here, word for word) to see this falling apart, and falling again after trying to stand up again.

And the cherry on the cake : they can publicly blame those who don't take sides, accuse them of domestic abuse apologists (?? :roll: ) and repeat the circle jerk over and over.

What bothers me is those people are often fervent defenders of human rights, justice and righteousness, and love to lecture the whole world about it.
But DiSanto hasn't been judged yet? Let's judge him ourselves :annoyed: over a 10 seconds video where he snapped with a pillow (and a voice of a teenager having a tantrum), and create real consequences on his life, although we don't have a single clue of what was going on with these two. This is not how justice is supposed to work in our western countries.


What an awful take. Are you saying we need a judge's opinion in order to vote with our wallet and voice our opinions? Or that since we don't, we're just a silly mob of leftist cancel culture dweebs? GOH.

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Anthony Pwl
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:40 am 
 

elvenefrisian wrote:
the police aren't exactly known for handling domestic abuse claims effectively.

But you are?

elvenefrisian wrote:
If you're just prepared to dismiss his ex-partner's claims entirely
Framing the people who are taking her at her word as nothing more than some 'hysterical woke mob' is very telling about you lot.

Nobody said that. Please read without twisting words. And this is not the point, so it is telling nothing about anyone.

Empyreal wrote:
If there's ever any evidence that things didn't go down like we think, I don't see any reason why we wouldn't reverse and change our opinions in any of these stories.

I would like to make something clear : people think what they want to, but this has gone further than thinking. I just wanted to stress the will of some people to substitute for actual police & justice, by launching internet raids to destroy the guy. And there will be more of them for the reasons i detailed above. This is not justice, this is an outlet.
I would get it if he had been found guilty ; there was this case in France in 2003, when a very famous rockstar here (Bertrand Cantat) killed his GF with his fists in Lituania. He has been sentenced to jail in a court. 7 years later (SEVEN!) he was free. He tried to go back on his singer career (i was like WTF is he thinking) but found a strong opposition within a large part of the population. I get that, and i took part in.
In the end if DiSanto is found guilty of domestic abuse, i won't be indignant about what happens on facebook about his career.

motorsport wrote:
What an awful take. Are you saying we need a judge's opinion in order to vote with our wallet and voice our opinions? Or that since we don't, we're just a silly mob of leftist cancel culture dweebs? GOH.

Yes you need a judge's opinion because thats how it works. Sometimes there are flaws, especially with very powerful and influent people who go through the net, but DiSanto is not one of them. And if you don't need a regular trial to act and take the law into your own hands, you are not necessarily [what you said], but you support mob justice, plain and simple. I don't think it's ok but you have the right to feel that way. Just don't ask for the regular one if one day it backfires on you.
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motorsport
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Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 10:48 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2022 12:16 pm 
 

Anthony Pwl wrote:
motorsport wrote:
What an awful take. Are you saying we need a judge's opinion in order to vote with our wallet and voice our opinions? Or that since we don't, we're just a silly mob of leftist cancel culture dweebs? GOH.

Yes you need a judge's opinion because thats how it works. Sometimes there are flaws, especially with very powerful and influent people who go through the net, but DiSanto is not one of them. And if you don't need a regular trial to act and take the law into your own hands, you are not necessarily [what you said], but you support mob justice, plain and simple. I don't think it's ok but you have the right to feel that way. Just don't ask for the regular one if one day it backfires on you.

Electing not to purchase music is mob justice now. Okay then. I think we're done.

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Ex El Ex El Ex
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2022 12:24 pm 
 

Well, obviously Anthony Pwl believes that a musician is entitled to people buying their music and fuck you if you wouldn't do so for any reason. Go broke buying ALL the music, fuck life!
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Dungeon_Vic
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2022 12:25 pm 
 

I don't want to get into this story again (I am the poster who has spoken to the guys in the band, not only me though - to me this is an Amber Heard case) but I do have to point out that the argument about the free market and choosing where to give your money would be true if you simply chose not to buy any Vektor albums, when they were released. To actively bombard the record company to ditch a band is not the free market in action nor is it "electing not to purchase music". It's not censorship either of course but I don't think "cancelling" means a law-enforced ban...
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Anthony Pwl
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2022 12:50 pm 
 

motorsport wrote:
Electing not to purchase music is mob justice now. Okay then. I think we're done.

No, we're done because you're rephrasing and twisting my words. I made it clear -several times- that i was speaking about the facebook raids leading to a company breaking a deal with someone who hasnt been properly judged. Think what you want, buy what you want.
I was expecting a rain of strawmen, you didnt disappoint. Now ive said everything i wanted to say.
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firelord_
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2022 1:38 pm 
 

Anthony Pwl wrote:
Spoiler: show
asmfc wrote:
What was the final verdict in the story?

To my knowledge there is none.
And that is a problem. DiSanto hasn't been judged (again, correct me if im wrong). No trial took place, no verdict delivered.
The only fact we got since 3 years, is seeing him in a 10 seconds video where he pushes his wife on a bed, throws a pillow at her and yells "leave me alone!". This is not a thing to do with one's partner, but this kind of situation can pop in the middle of a bad argument where both sides go off the rails.
That is the investigators' freaking job to know if the domestic abuse was mutual or not, if there were actual hits (with hands, feet, or dangerous items) or not. This is not ours.

asmfc wrote:
Either way I see no reason to be happy that a band was cancelled due to this

People want blood and tears, and feel powerful over someone. They want to be the judge and the jury. No official sentence, therefore some internet vigilantes and mob justice supporters go berserk on their keyboards to prevent DiSanto to sell his music again. They won with Century Media, so no doubt they will try another music label pantsing in the future.
Schadenfreude as well. Tabloids sell big time when there is a story with a fall from stardom. Vektor really was one of the "next big things" in underground metal last decade, so at their scale, they were pretty famous. It makes some happy (we read it here, word for word) to see this falling apart, and falling again after trying to stand up again.

And the cherry on the cake : they can publicly blame those who don't take sides, accuse them of domestic abuse apologists (?? :roll: ) and repeat the circle jerk over and over.

What bothers me is those people are often fervent defenders of human rights, justice and righteousness, and love to lecture the whole world about it.
But DiSanto hasn't been judged yet? Let's judge him ourselves :annoyed: over a 10 seconds video where he snapped with a pillow (and a voice of a teenager having a tantrum), and create real consequences on his life, although we don't have a single clue of what was going on with these two. This is not how justice is supposed to work in our western countries.



Domestic abuse jurisprudence is difficult precisely because tons of people have differing notions of what's considered normal in a relationship, like in your case where roughing up a partner is understandable so long as the argument was heated enough. Ultimately fans are shopping with their conscience, and it seems most of us draw the line earlier than you do. Even if there hasn't been an official verdict, DiSanto's reluctance to salvage the situation by at least making some sort of apology post or whatever speaks for itself. I'm sure even the worst court-mandated NDA wouldn't stop you from telling your fans to hang in there and that things aren't what they seem like, but alas.

No idea what facebook raids you're talking about, but if Vektor's dropping is indeed mob justice, blame CM for yielding to it rather than the individuals expressing their opinions? Wanting to distance yourself from something you perceive as disgusting, guilty or not, is perfectly fine, especially on such a sensitive issue as domestic abuse. The way I see it, DiSanto has made his bed and is now laying in it.
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Durag
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2022 5:32 pm 
 

^ That's it really. I hate the internet and its dogpiling on people and utter assumption that once an accusation is made that its instantly true without any evidence whatsoever, and that someone's career can be destroyed over it. The Depp Heard trial I had hoped would maybe make people less susceptible to that but I guess not. However, DiSanto's press release didn't really say anything, he hasn't explained anything, denied anything or given any other alternative to any of the accusations made against him. He's had a number of years to try and sort this mess out now

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2022 5:40 pm 
 

The tendency toward internet mobs can lead to toxic things, but so can this idea that we have to completely ignore every unsavory part of a story and just side with the accused all of the time as if we're in a court hearing is very silly too. Like the above poster said, if there's any evidence that the whole thing was fake or whatever then we haven't seen it.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2022 5:56 pm 
 

"It only counts if a judge/court says so" is the same garbage excuse supporters of Kyle Rittenhouse make to justify his crimes. Fuck the fuck off with that shit.
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Anthony Pwl
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Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:12 am
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:44 pm 
 

firelord_ wrote:
DiSanto's reluctance to salvage the situation by at least making some sort of apology post or whatever speaks for itself.

Durag wrote:
DiSanto's press release didn't really say anything, he hasn't explained anything, denied anything or given any other alternative to any of the accusations made against him. He's had a number of years to try and sort this mess out now

There is always a way to look at things with a negative point of view. If he doesnt apologize its a silent confession ; if he does, then it's damage control and/or a straight confession. If i remember well, he tried to say stuff back then on Vektor's facebook page, and got so roasted in the comments that he ragequit. Whatever he says "can be used against him", according to the established expression.

firelord_ wrote:
blame CM for yielding to it rather than the individuals expressing their opinions?

I don't want to twist your words and do what i blamed others for doing, so i am asking this as a non-rhetorical question :
Don't you think it would be like blaming a door not to be solid enough when it's being hit multiple times with a battering ram? Century Media is a lambda company, a regular door, its not supposed to be a safe box (like a law firm, a press agency, a political party). No wonder why they yielded to the pressure ; what's surprising is them signing Vektor in the first place because like some said previously, they should have anticipated the tornado coming at them. Their behavior was strange. If you sign Vektor be prepared to stand your ground, or don't go there. This ultra-fast backpedaling was a farce and made them look like total amateurs.
As for the pressure itself, yes i do blame it and i explained why.

firelord_ wrote:
people have differing notions of what's considered normal in a relationship, like in your case where roughing up a partner is understandable so long as the argument was heated enough.

What i said was "This is not a thing to do with one's partner, but this kind of situation can pop in the middle of a bad argument where both sides go off the rails." I insist on the both sides.
We are sliding slowly to what i myself consider "normal" in a relationship, like "roughing up a partner" when one become heated enough. I said it happens sometimes (in general)... so this turns into maybe i can understand that, and maybe i could do it myself, why not. If i continue to post on this topic, next page some guy will say maybe i actually did, and in 2 pages im going to read that i said a jab/cross to my GF from time to time is no big deal. So no surprise i defend this DiSanto scum.

Empyreal wrote:
The tendency toward internet mobs can lead to toxic things, but so can this idea that we have to completely ignore every unsavory part of a story and just side with the accused all of the time as if we're in a court hearing is very silly too. Like the above poster said, if there's any evidence that the whole thing was fake or whatever then we haven't seen it.

I don't think i do. Criticizing internet mob's behavior on CM's FB page doesn't make me "side with the accused all the time". Again, in the end if DiSanto is found guilty of domestic abuse, i won't be indignant about what happens on facebook about his career.
And i don't think the whole thing is fake. Maybe like Dungeon_Vic said, it is an Amber Heard case. Maybe DiSanto is the complete fuckhead some depict here, I just don't know. This is guesswork leading to a discussion on a message board.
The internet vigilantes who spammed CM don't know either, and this is guesswork leading to real consequences.

Subrick wrote:
"It only counts if a judge/court says so" is the same garbage excuse supporters of Kyle Rittenhouse make to justify his crimes. Fuck the fuck off with that shit.

I respect your opinion but don't ever ask for regular justice for yourself if the shit hits the fan.
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77hjrttfred
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Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:15 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:21 pm 
 

Anthony Pwl wrote:
I don't think i do. Criticizing internet mob's behavior on CM's FB page doesn't make me "side with the accused all the time". Again, in the end if DiSanto is found guilty of domestic abuse, i won't be indignant about what happens on facebook about his career.
And i don't think the whole thing is fake. Maybe like Dungeon_Vic said, it is an Amber Heard case. Maybe DiSanto is the complete fuckhead some depict here, I just don't know. This is guesswork leading to a discussion on a message board.
The internet vigilantes who spammed CM don't know either, and this is guesswork leading to real consequences.


I want to thank you for your contributions in this thread. You make a lot of sense to me.

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CreepingDeath16
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:42 am 
 

Anthony Pwl wrote:
Criticizing internet mob's behavior on CM's FB page doesn't make me "side with the accused all the time". Again, in the end if DiSanto is found guilty of domestic abuse, i won't be indignant about what happens on facebook about his career.
And i don't think the whole thing is fake. Maybe like Dungeon_Vic said, it is an Amber Heard case. Maybe DiSanto is the complete fuckhead some depict here, I just don't know. This is guesswork leading to a discussion on a message board.
The internet vigilantes who spammed CM don't know either, and this is guesswork leading to real consequences.

You have somewhat of a point, albeit a very theoretical and debate club-esque one, but the most tangible problem I have with your posts is that, your possible intentions notwithstanding, you make people messaging on a corporate Facebook page sound like something akin to storming the Capitol.
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firelord_
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:17 am 
 

Anthony Pwl wrote:
What i said was "This is not a thing to do with one's partner, but this kind of situation can pop in the middle of a bad argument where both sides go off the rails." I insist on the both sides.
We are sliding slowly to what i myself consider "normal" in a relationship, like "roughing up a partner" when one become heated enough. I said it happens sometimes (in general)... so this turns into maybe i can understand that, and maybe i could do it myself, why not. If i continue to post on this topic, next page some guy will say maybe i actually did, and in 2 pages im going to read that i said a jab/cross to my GF from time to time is no big deal. So no surprise i defend this DiSanto scum.


I have a hard time reading your original post as anything but an attempt to trivialise what DiSanto did for the sake of your argument. You're right that we don't know the full picture, but to me and a lot of other Vektor fans, having anything whatsoever to do with throwing your wife around like that is the red line. Short of a life and death self-defence situation I don't think anything warrants the kind of relationship manhandling shown in that clip, and that's my basis for dropping them. It's fine if you don't agree, as I said we're drawing the line at different points here. But domestic abuse is a contentious issue for good reason.

And corporations will surely act with their own self-benefit in mind at all times, but to accept that and shift blame onto consumers isn't the way. I do agree CM should never have signed Vektor in the first place without at least forcing DiSanto to clean house first, which he didn't, and the backlash was indeed expected. But you sound like you're demanding some sort of "logical" rationale behind people's motivations, which is rarely how it works when it comes to ones personal relationship with an artist and their music, at least in my experience. I was disgusted enough with what I saw in that clip to hold Vektor off permanently, only reconsidering in light of some thorough explanation or apology perhaps (because the music is indeed STELLAR), but the longer it goes without any sort of public amends made by DiSanto the less willing I am to give him the benefit of doubt, and the more I conflate his brand with unapologetic domestic abuse. Tough luck.
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Ivan Drago
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:40 pm 
 

https://youtu.be/OS66FIG2WSI

He's come out with a statement

Quote:
Hello, this is David DiSanto of Vektor. I just want to take a couple minutes to set the record straight about the rumors surrounding me. I had hoped the allegations against me would eventually go away, but due to the band recently losing a record deal with Century Media because of the misperceptions about me, it’s time I addressed everything clearly for everyone. I apologize for my initial response in 2019 and my silence that followed. It was too much for me to handle at the time. So, now I want to clarify to our fans what’s actually going on in that dark, horrible video swirling around the internet.
This little guy (my dog, Sprinkles) set off a chain of events that I never could’ve imagined. In early 2019 he was still being potty trained, and he left a little poo on the stairs in the middle of the night after I had gone to bed. It was around midnight when I was woken up by my wife standing next to the bed repeatedly slapping my head, pulling my hair, and digging into my chest with her nails, screaming and yelling at me to pick up his poop immediately. I kept telling her to “leave me alone”, “it can wait until the morning”, but she wouldn’t stop after what seemed like 30 minutes. I finally stood up and was cornered against the wall between the bed and my dresser. I asked her to move so I could do the thing she was asking, but she wouldn’t budge and kept instigating and escalating the situation. So, I picked her up and moved her onto the bed, out of my way, so I could get by. I then threw a pillow and reiterated to her, “leave me alone”.
That is the truth and reality of what took place before and during that video. Some people might not think that’s a very big deal, but I want to make perfectly clear that I am truly sorry and embarrassed for how I reacted to that situation. Having my personal life being exposed to complete strangers has been a big opportunity for me to learn and grow. These past few years have humbled me to my core. Like so many others, I was caught in a toxic relationship and felt like I was trapped and couldn’t get out. I hope all the people that go through that find the power to heal themselves and move forward with their lives. That’s what I’m trying to do.
As for other rumors getting passed around online, there are no continued legal battles going on between my ex and myself. Our divorce was finalized in 2021 and it was very standard as far as divorces are concerned. We divvied up our assets and went our separate ways. I don’t have any kind of criminal record. I certainly have never been charged with any type of domestic violence. The mugshot that people are passing around is from a completely unrelated event from 2013 where I splashed beer on a Christian protester who was antagonizing the crowd at Scion Metal Fest in Memphis. I wasn’t charged for anything regarding that either.
Hopefully, people will eventually be able to judge us on our music and not our personal lives: my personal life. I’m continuing to better myself every day in all aspects of my life. It’s a shame that we lost a record deal because of lies and slander, but we’ll keep doing our best, continue to grow, and rise above the challenges.
I appreciate you taking the time to listen to my side of the story and how these events truly unfolded. On behalf of myself and Vektor, we look forward to your continued support and understanding about this matter. Thank you.


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narsilianshard
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:55 pm 
 

Really nothing new here, just the same "I'm actually the victim, not the abuser." But the only evidence that exists is of the opposite, so I'm not sure what this does to prove his case.
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Thexhumed
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:56 pm 
 

narsilianshard wrote:
Really nothing new here, just the same "I'm actually the victim, not the abuser."


Did you get that before or after reading his statement?
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henkkjelle
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 5:49 pm 
 

narsilianshard wrote:
Really nothing new here, just the same "I'm actually the victim, not the abuser." But the only evidence that exists is of the opposite, so I'm not sure what this does to prove his case.


It doesn't "prove" anything. It's just his version of events. His ex-wife has her version of events and a video showing DiSanto being abusive. And considering there aren't any legal procedures going on anymore, that's all we're gonna get. Maybe DiSanto fabricated 95% of his statement to paint him in a more sympathetic and understandable light or maybe it's muddier than that.

He seemed to be quite a shitty person or still is if he's talking out of his ass. Time will tell I guess.

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Durag
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:59 pm 
 

narsilianshard wrote:
Really nothing new here, just the same "I'm actually the victim, not the abuser." But the only evidence that exists is of the opposite, so I'm not sure what this does to prove his case.


It isn't really evidence though, its a very short video with zero context provided and we don't know what happened before or after. This is his version of events. She made a lot of accusations against him at the time that very well could be true but since there is no domestic abuse cases or charges at this stage its he said she said really.

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des91
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:19 pm 
 

The bottom line is that there is a video of him pushing his wife and throwing a pillow at her. That’s all we should be looking at because it’s the only evidence we have. Nothing else matters, at least to the public unless there were witnesses to other things happening.

But nobody should be laying hands on another like that so we have every right to say that was very shitty behavior and he needs to get help and show remorse for that event.

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DeadKid
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:55 pm 
 

Opus wrote:
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For the millionth time: Jon Nödtveidt didn't murder anyone!

Sure, but seems he was a willing perpetrator in the event and supplied the weapons. On that basis if I'd bought any Dissection albums I'd probably regret it. But it doesn't really work trying to compare views of metal kids in 2006 to now.
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EpicSceptic
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:32 am 
 

des91 wrote:
The bottom line is that there is a video of him pushing his wife and throwing a pillow at her. That’s all we should be looking at because it’s the only evidence we have. Nothing else matters, at least to the public unless there were witnesses to other things happening.

But nobody should be laying hands on another like that so we have every right to say that was very shitty behavior and he needs to get help and show remorse for that event.


I don't disagree with anything you say here, but if you're only going by the evidence submitted, do you think a reasonable response to that shitty behaviour is for him to never be able to be signed to any label again? Asking sincerely.

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des91
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:04 pm 
 

EpicSceptic wrote:
I don't disagree with anything you say here, but if you're only going by the evidence submitted, do you think a reasonable response to that shitty behaviour is for him to never be able to be signed to any label again? Asking sincerely.


He shouldn’t be able to until he shows remorse and until he goes to therapy. After it’s proven that he did both those things, then yes, I believe someone can sign him.

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Ivan Drago
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:52 pm 
 

des91 wrote:
EpicSceptic wrote:
I don't disagree with anything you say here, but if you're only going by the evidence submitted, do you think a reasonable response to that shitty behaviour is for him to never be able to be signed to any label again? Asking sincerely.


He shouldn’t be able to until he shows remorse and until he goes to therapy. After it’s proven that he did both those things, then yes, I believe someone can sign him.

And if what he says is the truth and he hasn't done anything wrong?

It's very easy for people to not support him if they don't want to, he shouldn't have his livelihood taken away

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Twisted_Psychology
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:57 pm 
 

How much money is even in Vektor at this point, especially in the last five years? There are plenty of musicians with non-sketchy circumstances working day jobs, he'll live either way.
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des91
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Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:51 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:34 pm 
 

Ivan Drago wrote:
des91 wrote:
EpicSceptic wrote:
I don't disagree with anything you say here, but if you're only going by the evidence submitted, do you think a reasonable response to that shitty behaviour is for him to never be able to be signed to any label again? Asking sincerely.


He shouldn’t be able to until he shows remorse and until he goes to therapy. After it’s proven that he did both those things, then yes, I believe someone can sign him.

And if what he says is the truth and he hasn't done anything wrong?

It's very easy for people to not support him if they don't want to, he shouldn't have his livelihood taken away


Like I said, nobody knows what happened other than the video. And based on that video, he committed assault. Everything I said is just based on that.

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Terri23
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 10:55 pm 
 

Ivan Drago wrote:
des91 wrote:
EpicSceptic wrote:
I don't disagree with anything you say here, but if you're only going by the evidence submitted, do you think a reasonable response to that shitty behaviour is for him to never be able to be signed to any label again? Asking sincerely.


He shouldn’t be able to until he shows remorse and until he goes to therapy. After it’s proven that he did both those things, then yes, I believe someone can sign him.

And if what he says is the truth and he hasn't done anything wrong?

It's very easy for people to not support him if they don't want to, he shouldn't have his livelihood taken away


I think there's a few different schools of thought on that. Everyone deserves to make a living, regardless of who they are, and I don't think anyone will disagree with that. However, Vektor are a very public band, among the leaders in the thrash movement today. It's a position of privilege, and very few bands get to the level that Vektor are at. People today have a problem with abusers (whether found guilty in a court of law or not) being in highly public positions of privilege, and social media has given the public the platform to call them out. Public perception has never been as important to businesses as it is today, and businesses will make decisions based on perceived public perception, as Century did in dropping Vektor. David seems like he's from a comfortable family background, and I'm sure he can go back to the family business, away from the public spotlight that is Vektor.
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KrigareTjovane
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:13 am 
 

Yeah Terri nailed it. Playing in a popular band that makes money is a privilege and DiSanto is owed ZERO from anybody. He is not entitled to have a career as a musician and believing otherwise is foolish.

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Kaleva
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Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:41 pm
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Location: Stranger in a Strange Land
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:53 am 
 

des91 wrote:
EpicSceptic wrote:
I don't disagree with anything you say here, but if you're only going by the evidence submitted, do you think a reasonable response to that shitty behaviour is for him to never be able to be signed to any label again? Asking sincerely.


He shouldn’t be able to until he shows remorse and until he goes to therapy. After it’s proven that he did both those things, then yes, I believe someone can sign him.


And what's this?
David DiSanto wrote:
but I want to make perfectly clear that I am truly sorry and embarrassed for how I reacted to that situation.

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EpicSceptic
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Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:26 am
Posts: 694
Location: South Africa
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 5:34 am 
 

Twisted_Psychology wrote:
How much money is even in Vektor at this point, especially in the last five years? There are plenty of musicians with non-sketchy circumstances working day jobs, he'll live either way.


That's a hilarious argument that you definitely aren't capable of applying across the board. If you get a hard-on for revenge porn and think retributive justice at judicial levels is effective and at societal levels should be encouraged, then have at it, but I hope you're consistent then and also hand wave the struggles of ex-convicts (regardless of desert) who can't get jobs or integrate back into society.

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EpicSceptic
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 5:44 am 
 

Terri23 wrote:
I think there's a few different schools of thought on that. Everyone deserves to make a living, regardless of who they are, and I don't think anyone will disagree with that. However, Vektor are a very public band, among the leaders in the thrash movement today. It's a position of privilege, and very few bands get to the level that Vektor are at. People today have a problem with abusers (whether found guilty in a court of law or not) being in highly public positions of privilege, and social media has given the public the platform to call them out. Public perception has never been as important to businesses as it is today, and businesses will make decisions based on perceived public perception, as Century did in dropping Vektor. David seems like he's from a comfortable family background, and I'm sure he can go back to the family business, away from the public spotlight that is Vektor.


This perfectly sums up the dynamics at play, and I think people who look at the situation and scream "cancel culture" are pretty silly and just don't understand that this is literally how human societies have managed themselves for thousands of years.

My question is just to test the pull of our intuitions. I understand that people pile on with the help of social media, but I still find it hard to believe anyone reflecting on it for a bit can rationalise that it ought to be this way and that the response is proportionate to the evidence presented.

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Lythronax
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Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:54 pm
Posts: 77
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 5:45 am 
 

Kalaratri wrote:
CM hasn't exactly been shy about dropping bands/musicians that do scummy things before (Iced Earth after John Schaffer stormed the Capitol, Nachtmystium for Blake Judd's scamming, making sure Lorna Shore's previous vocalist wouldn't see a cent of the band's royalties after he got tagged with allegations of sexual abuse etc.)


I guess the most controversial CM band who hasn't been dropped yet would be Marduk?

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des91
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Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:51 pm
Posts: 318
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:03 am 
 

Kaleva wrote:
des91 wrote:
EpicSceptic wrote:
I don't disagree with anything you say here, but if you're only going by the evidence submitted, do you think a reasonable response to that shitty behaviour is for him to never be able to be signed to any label again? Asking sincerely.


He shouldn’t be able to until he shows remorse and until he goes to therapy. After it’s proven that he did both those things, then yes, I believe someone can sign him.


And what's this?
David DiSanto wrote:
but I want to make perfectly clear that I am truly sorry and embarrassed for how I reacted to that situation.


I did miss that. That’s my fault.

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CoffeeCat
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Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2022 9:09 am
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:24 am 
 

I feel really bad about the whole situation. I'll preface this by saying know literally nothing about DiSanto other than that he's the frontman of Vektor, an insanely good songwriter, guitarist, and vocalist, and that he was accused of domestic abuse. I didn't follow the band super closely, or the updates from them after the initial reports.

Most of me wants to always believe accusers. Most people stay quiet about incidents of domestic abuse (as well as other related stuff) because they do not want to disrupt their lives, or invite the shame, scrutiny, and other consequences that doing so will bring. There is nearly never any advantage to doing so unless the person is in serious danger. We owe it both as compassionate people and as a society, because those people are vulnerable and have it so hard without that support.

The flip side, though, is that nobody should be condemned for a crime they didn't commit, or even for one they did but have clearly shown remorse and growth since then. Whether this was a one-off incident or a continuing pattern of abuse, kind of doesn't matter. I don't think it's fair to destroy someone's life or career over a mistake that they have clearly learned from and regret, and doubly so when they're someone who has a lot to contribute to society. But even so, it's also impossible to fully erase that stain - all you can do is accept it and make a judgment call whether you feel that person has atoned enough.

So yeah. For me personally, I don't know how comfortable I feel about the whole situation, and I don't blame Century Media for dropping Vektor. Clearly the issue is still raw. But despite that, I really hope that some day DiSanto can find a way to bring Vektor back, or contribute musically to the world in some other way.
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Durag
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Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:51 pm
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Location: Republic Of Ireland
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:19 am 
 

CoffeeCat wrote:
I feel really bad about the whole situation. I'll preface this by saying know literally nothing about DiSanto other than that he's the frontman of Vektor, an insanely good songwriter, guitarist, and vocalist, and that he was accused of domestic abuse. I didn't follow the band super closely, or the updates from them after the initial reports.

Most of me wants to always believe accusers. Most people stay quiet about incidents of domestic abuse (as well as other related stuff) because they do not want to disrupt their lives, or invite the shame, scrutiny, and other consequences that doing so will bring. There is nearly never any advantage to doing so unless the person is in serious danger. We owe it both as compassionate people and as a society, because those people are vulnerable and have it so hard without that support.

The flip side, though, is that nobody should be condemned for a crime they didn't commit, or even for one they did but have clearly shown remorse and growth since then. Whether this was a one-off incident or a continuing pattern of abuse, kind of doesn't matter. I don't think it's fair to destroy someone's life or career over a mistake that they have clearly learned from and regret, and doubly so when they're someone who has a lot to contribute to society. But even so, it's also impossible to fully erase that stain - all you can do is accept it and make a judgment call whether you feel that person has atoned enough.

So yeah. For me personally, I don't know how comfortable I feel about the whole situation, and I don't blame Century Media for dropping Vektor. Clearly the issue is still raw. But despite that, I really hope that some day DiSanto can find a way to bring Vektor back, or contribute musically to the world in some other way.


Yeah, agree.

I've had a family member and a friend who were in toxic relationships like this one, both were afraid to leave due to threats of self harm and suicide and there was a never ending cycle of arguing and fighting from both people in the relationship. If anyone was to have picked up a camera and record a 10 second video in the middle of one of these arguments and post online, the person who was the aggressor at the time (screaming or shouting) would appear to be an abuser and the other the victim, but it was not that way at all. It was a toxic relationship, both sides were as bad as each other and the relationships should have ended years before. Thankfully they both did end.

DiSanto should have clarified this situation years ago tbh but going by his statement he and his ex-wife are separated and they've both moved on. People are well in their rights not to support Vektor, or buy their products as they are any band, but dogpiling the record label and effectively making the decision for other people, all based on a 10 second video with zero context or background is a bit much in my opinion.

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HeavenDuff
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Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
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Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:14 pm 
 

Like others in this thread, I'm uncomfortable around the whole Vektor and DiSanto situation, because it's not very clear what actually happened. It's not like Dagon from Inquisition who was most definitely sharing and downloading child pornography and made no kind of effort whatsoever to recognize he did something wrong or shown any kind of remorse.

Domestic abusers are terrible, of course, but to me the DiSanto situation has always been a difficult one to assess, because some of it felt more like a toxic relationship then outright domestic abuse. My first teenage relationship was a very toxic one, and I can say, like Durag said in the post just above mine, that if someone was to record a ten seconds video of our fights, at some points I would have come up as an aggressor, and in other situations, it's my ex who would have come off as the aggressor. We were codependant, and highly toxic to each other. We were both terrible.

I can't really bring myself to reject the possibility that this is what was going on with DiSanto.

Regardless, people are making their own opinion and clearly taking position here. Without addressing if it's a good thing or not, I'm surprised to see that so much people are still taking such a firm stance against DiSanto, years after the original events.

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Oddeye
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Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:24 pm
Posts: 2259
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:41 pm 
 

I have a friend who's girlfriend accused him of being an abuser, pedophile and an all around psycho. A lot of people backed her up until the case went to court and her lies became more and more apparent. The person most harmed by this whole ordeal is of course their little kid.

I'm not saying DiSanto is innocent, all I'm saying is that things are seldom just black and white. People in toxic relationships lie all the time and it doesn't matter what gender you are.

It seems like a lot of people already made up their mind about this based on a video (that I admittedly have not seen) and some posts on social media. Again I am not saying anyone is lying or that anyone is innocent but it kind of rubs me the wrong way that so many people seems to have taken a side in this even though it's a very murky case.

It kind of reminds me of a case of #metoo here in Sweden where a tv-personality got accused of sexually harrasing an employee. At first glance some text messages seemed to collaborate her story. However it soon turned out they had an affair and she got pissed off when she was dumped. The guy, who eventually got his job backed after being dropped, however was an asshole for starting a relationship with someone who you could argue was kind of depentent of him (since he was a seniour). I guess both of them did wrong. I don't think this is representative of the #metoo-movement but still, these things (rarely) does happen.

I think that women or men lying about this kind of stuff is really, really rare. But once in a while they do.

Oh and I can't really stress enough that I don't want to defend DiSanto since I have no idea what actually happened. I just think that the discussion is pretty interesting. Greyscales man.


Last edited by Oddeye on Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ace_Rimmer
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:30 am
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:52 pm 
 

Ivan Drago wrote:
Hopefully this won't delay the new album too much


Honestly, as I sit here today listening to music made by arsonists, murderers, and other degrees of violent felons...I can't say I'm opposed to a new Vektor album.

If it comes out and its anywhere near the last two I'm all over it as I doubt the lyrics will be about domestic violence and abuse.

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