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Ace_Rimmer
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:30 am
Posts: 3199
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:56 am 
 

LilTito wrote:
CreepingDeath16 wrote:
My unpopular opinion: way too much Megadeth in this fucking thread.

90% of this thread is just boomers discussing their favorite legacy bands


Is any one posting here actually a boomer?

Or is that just the standard insult that kids throw at people who are older?

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HeavenDuff
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Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
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Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:07 am 
 

Slam_Grinder wrote:
In Flames make better Alternative Metal than they have made Melodic Death Metal.


I have a hard time even pinpointing what you mean when talking about In Flames and alternative metal. Not only because fans of the band and melodic death metal have been debatting what was actually melodeath among their pre-Come Clarity material, but because the band has since strayed so far away even from what I'd consider to be alternative metal and turned into a weird blob that is distinctively still very much In Flames, but also a flaming pile of garbage.

I've personnally always had a soft spot for Colony and Clayman, and I know that some people on MA are very vocal about their hatred for Clayman, which they already consider to be nu-metal/alternative metal, although I still think of it as a melodic death metal record, or at least a kind of hybrid. So if you're arguing that these "mid-era" In Flames are their best, I might not agree entirely, but it's defendable. I've even heard people making a pretty good case for Reroute to Remain and Soundtrack to Your Escape. I don't really like them, but I can understand someone enjoying them.

Still, I think their early days melodic death metal is the best, not only because they are good records, but because they crafted a subgenre and had a vast legacy.

If you're saying that the best In Flames is Come Clarity and after, then I can't do anything for you. Come Clarity and A Sense Of Purpose, while they were weaker albums, still had a few goods ideas here and there. But In Flames run post A Sense Of Purpose, is one of the all time worst in metal. It's unredeemable trash and this should be obvious to anyone who has ears.

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EvergreenSherbert
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:48 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:22 am 
 

Ace_Rimmer wrote:
LilTito wrote:
CreepingDeath16 wrote:
My unpopular opinion: way too much Megadeth in this fucking thread.

90% of this thread is just boomers discussing their favorite legacy bands


Is any one posting here actually a boomer?

Or is that just the standard insult that kids throw at people who are older?

The latter. "Boomers" are just old people now. Take "old" to mean whatever you want.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:40 am 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
But In Flames run post A Sense Of Purpose, is one of the all time worst in metal. It's unredeemable trash and this should be obvious to anyone who has ears.


As someone who thinks the band as a whole is one of the worst in metal (even the old stuff) how do you qualify this? "Obvious to anyone with ears" - how is it not just subjective? Odd phrasing.
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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:50 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:
HeavenDuff wrote:
But In Flames run post A Sense Of Purpose, is one of the all time worst in metal. It's unredeemable trash and this should be obvious to anyone who has ears.


As someone who thinks the band as a whole is one of the worst in metal (even the old stuff) how do you qualify this? "Obvious to anyone with ears" - how is it not just subjective? Odd phrasing.


It's a figure of speech, meaning they are extra garbage. Of course, people are allowed to think In Flames last few records aren't shit. Although I may have follow-up questions regarding this, cause it's hard to believe.

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I Am the Law
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2003 1:46 pm
Posts: 587
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 12:21 pm 
 

Ace_Rimmer wrote:
LilTito wrote:
CreepingDeath16 wrote:
My unpopular opinion: way too much Megadeth in this fucking thread.

90% of this thread is just boomers discussing their favorite legacy bands


Is any one posting here actually a boomer?

Or is that just the standard insult that kids throw at people who are older?


Nowadays "boomer" means "anyone over the age of 27" or "person who disagrees with me". I have no idea how this came about but that seems to be how the word is used.

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Slam_Grinder
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:33 am
Posts: 12
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 12:38 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
Slam_Grinder wrote:
In Flames make better Alternative Metal than they have made Melodic Death Metal.


I have a hard time even pinpointing what you mean when talking about In Flames and alternative metal. Not only because fans of the band and melodic death metal have been debatting what was actually melodeath among their pre-Come Clarity material, but because the band has since strayed so far away even from what I'd consider to be alternative metal and turned into a weird blob that is distinctively still very much In Flames, but also a flaming pile of garbage.

I've personnally always had a soft spot for Colony and Clayman, and I know that some people on MA are very vocal about their hatred for Clayman, which they already consider to be nu-metal/alternative metal, although I still think of it as a melodic death metal record, or at least a kind of hybrid. So if you're arguing that these "mid-era" In Flames are their best, I might not agree entirely, but it's defendable. I've even heard people making a pretty good case for Reroute to Remain and Soundtrack to Your Escape. I don't really like them, but I can understand someone enjoying them.

Still, I think their early days melodic death metal is the best, not only because they are good records, but because they crafted a subgenre and had a vast legacy.

If you're saying that the best In Flames is Come Clarity and after, then I can't do anything for you. Come Clarity and A Sense Of Purpose, while they were weaker albums, still had a few goods ideas here and there. But In Flames run post A Sense Of Purpose, is one of the all time worst in metal. It's unredeemable trash and this should be obvious to anyone who has ears.


I think everything after their Melodic Death Metal era is better than their Melodic Death Metal era. I've already explained my point:

Slam_Grinder wrote:
I can think about 10 other melodic death metal bands I'd rather listen to than 90s In Flames, but when it comes to their newer stuff I don't know many bands from that genre who make as good or better music than them.

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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 12:51 pm 
 

I liked it when better when #okboomer was used as an answer to tell patronizing old farts to stop trying to school millenials and Gen X on how they had it harder in their time. It has since drifted to exactly what previous posters have described, just a random insult thrown at anyone who is perceived as being "old" by the person using the word. It's not like there are a lot of actual boomers on the MA forums, and calling someone a boomer solely because they like Black Sabbath, Megadeth or Metallica seems like such a an absurd thing to do. I mean, if someone was going around saying that only bands formed prior to 1979 are good, then yeah sure, call them boomers all you like, but in the scenario at hand here? It's just absurd.

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Hexenmacht46290
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:30 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:59 pm 
 

I want to(in real life) jumpdafuckup.
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Cosmic_Equilibrium
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:03 pm
Posts: 725
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:07 pm 
 

I rate Metallica's instrumentals very highly. In fact I think they should have made an instrumental album in the 80s. It would have been pretty good I think.

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CreepingDeath16
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2021 12:49 am
Posts: 502
Location: Hyperborea
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:21 pm 
 

Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
I rate Metallica's instrumentals very highly. In fact I think they should have made an instrumental album in the 80s. It would have been pretty good I think.

That's like saying that because Fade to Black is a good track, Metallica should have made an album of power ballads in the 80s.
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Cosmic_Equilibrium
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:03 pm
Posts: 725
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:28 pm 
 

I don't understand what you're getting at there at all.

Metallica's instrumentals are a cut above most other bands; therefore they would have been able to pull off an instrumental album in the 80s and keep it interesting in a way most bands wouldn't have.

Not sure what you mean by saying "yeah but all their ballads are good so they should have made an album of those." An album full of power ballads doesn't work; an instrumental album is a totally different matter as instrumentals can vary a lot in tempo, length, speed, texture, dynamics, structure, etc. So an instrumental Metallica album in the 80s could have been a pretty interesting thing to hear.


Last edited by Cosmic_Equilibrium on Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Zelkiiro
Pounding the world with a fish of steel

Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:30 pm
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Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:29 pm 
 

CreepingDeath16 wrote:
Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
I rate Metallica's instrumentals very highly. In fact I think they should have made an instrumental album in the 80s. It would have been pretty good I think.

That's like saying that because Fade to Black is a good track, Metallica should have made an album of power ballads in the 80s.

I mean...if they were game for it...
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CreepingDeath16
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2021 12:49 am
Posts: 502
Location: Hyperborea
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:42 pm 
 

Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
I don't understand what you're getting at there at all.

Metallica's instrumentals are a cut above most other bands; therefore they would have been able to pull off an instrumental album in the 80s and keep it interesting in a way most bands wouldn't have.

Not sure what you mean by saying "yeah but all their ballads are good so they should have made an album of those." An album full of power ballads doesn't work; an instrumental album is a totally different matter as instrumentals can vary a lot in tempo, length, speed, texture, dynamics, structure, etc. So an instrumental Metallica album in the 80s could have been a pretty interesting thing to hear.

The instrumentals have their place on their respective albums' arc and flow (like Fade to Black as a power ballad), they are great as individual songs but what elevates them is their placement on the otherwise non-instrumental albums. Making a full album of those would be an immensely difficult task. Can you name an instrumental thrash metal album, let alone one that is actually great?
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Last edited by CreepingDeath16 on Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cosmic_Equilibrium
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:03 pm
Posts: 725
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:46 pm 
 

Yeah, that's the thing. Metallica had a lot more dynamics when it came to stuff like that. And Burton's classical leanings are another plus point. I couldn't imagine another thrash metal band making an instrumental album, but Metallica in the 80s could have pulled it off.

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CreepingDeath16
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Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2021 12:49 am
Posts: 502
Location: Hyperborea
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:48 pm 
 

I love Metallica as much as any other boomer, but my optimism has its limits.
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HeavenDuff
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Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
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Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:52 pm 
 

Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
Yeah, that's the thing. Metallica had a lot more dynamics when it came to stuff like that. And Burton's classical leanings are another plus point. I couldn't imagine another thrash metal band making an instrumental album, but Metallica in the 80s could have pulled it off.


Even if they could have done it. I don't see why they should have done it. Instrumentals, especially in metal, are written very differently then tracks with vocals. Metallica made their name not only on good riffing and instrumentation, but also on James vocals, his charisma, and choruses. Even if Metallica's instrumentals are quite good, they fit better when they are surrounded by tracks with vocals. Like they are an interesting change of pace, or they bring a breath of fresh air, but I can't really imagine a full instrumental album by Metallica to really work that well. Metallica's music really just isn't written in a way that would make this work in my opinion.

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Durag
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:51 pm
Posts: 193
Location: Republic Of Ireland
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 8:58 pm 
 

CannibalCorpse wrote:
The boomer tag is way overused these days. Should we rather talk about why most post-black metal bands sound so samey or what's the latest fad I've been missing?


On that note, I hate the 'black metal with post rock elements' being called 'post black metal', same with other forms of extreme metal being called post metal just because they added in some post rock parts to their songs. Using post as a descriptor should mean the next iteration of said genre, not said genre mixed with post rock.

The first time I heard post black metal being used was the last 90s with all the industrial stuff creeping in, although that didn't last too long. That to me was a more natural continuation. Post metal original meant the atmospheric sludge stuff of neurosis and Isis which to me fitted way better than what people consider post metal to be at the moment. Obviously it's just semantics and I've no idea if it's a popular opinion or not.

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Xymosys
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:19 am
Posts: 895
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:37 am 
 

Well, given the natural aggression and power, I think that metal music in general should be more social engaging, instead of being completely submerged into fictional concepts.
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Benedict Donald
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Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:36 am
Posts: 1692
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:27 am 
 

Ace_Rimmer wrote:
LilTito wrote:
CreepingDeath16 wrote:
My unpopular opinion: way too much Megadeth in this fucking thread.

90% of this thread is just boomers discussing their favorite legacy bands


Is any one posting here actually a boomer?

Or is that just the standard insult that kids throw at people who are older?


Me. I think.
I'll be 51 in a few weeks, so I suppose I qualify.

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Lee Harrison
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon May 30, 2022 6:28 am
Posts: 314
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:40 am 
 

The problem is the quality of modern releases and with exceptions of Black metal and few death metal bands,heavy metal was ten times better in the eighties and at beginning of nineties.
The past music was better.

Or I’m just me that don’t understand Hardwired or last Dimmu Borgir album
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Ace_Rimmer
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:30 am
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 1:11 pm 
 

Benedict Donald wrote:

Me. I think.
I'll be 51 in a few weeks, so I suppose I qualify.


Nah you are part of the ultimate generation, Gex X.

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HeavenDuff
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Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 3863
Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 1:36 pm 
 

Lee Harrison wrote:
The past music was better.


Please grandpa, tell us about the good ol'days again. I wanna know all about how every single musician from the 70's were better then every single musician from now.

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RestlessChild
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:10 pm
Posts: 51
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:40 pm 
 

Ozzy Osbourne still rules.

Cry about it.

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SlavicBes
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2021 4:35 am
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 4:22 pm 
 

Slipknot is real metal.

Their album All Hope is Gone is groove metal, just like the latest The End, So Far, so I really cannot see any problem why the band should not be here listed.

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LilTito
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 3:10 pm
Posts: 338
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 4:25 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Thinking liking older music = you're a boomer is the dumbest shit ever and we should just quit paying attention to their posts. So silly.

That's not what i said but whatever lol.

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des91
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:51 pm
Posts: 318
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:25 pm 
 

Ace_Rimmer wrote:
Benedict Donald wrote:

Me. I think.
I'll be 51 in a few weeks, so I suppose I qualify.


Nah you are part of the ultimate generation, Gex X.


Most of the musicians who made the classics from the 80s/90s were Gen Xers. Same with a lot of my favorite Punk albums. That generation knew how to write some badass angry music.

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LongHairIsSoFuckingCool
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Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:22 am
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:31 pm 
 

RestlessChild wrote:
Ozzy Osbourne still rules.

Cry about it.

The band or person?
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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:57 pm 
 

LongHairIsSoFuckingCool wrote:
RestlessChild wrote:
Ozzy Osbourne still rules.

Cry about it.

The band or person?


With Ozzy having released an album this year, I guess he's talking about him as a vocalist and his band.

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Gemini 7 Rising
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:08 am
Posts: 598
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:37 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
Lee Harrison wrote:
The past music was better.


Please grandpa, tell us about the good ol'days again. I wanna know all about how every single musician from the 70's were better then every single musician from now.


:lol:
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EvergreenSherbert
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:48 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:47 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
Lee Harrison wrote:
The past music was better.


Please grandpa, tell us about the good ol'days again. I wanna know all about how every single musician from the 70's were better then every single musician from now.

To be fair... the 70's had some amazing progressive rock.
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ArugulaLime
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:13 pm
Posts: 9
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:11 pm 
 

Waltz_of_Ghouls wrote:
I don't know if it's really an unpopular opinion, but I have zero interest in demos and/or splits. If a band only has a few demos out, I don't even bother. I prefer waiting for a full-length. 99% the demo will sound like ass anyway. And yes I like black metal and I am used to the lo-fi aspect of the genre but even then, once it gets into the really raw stuff, I lose interest.


I'm typically the same way unless I hear positive recommendations of a demo or I love a band and want to hear everything they've made. Ne obliviscaris' demo was incredible and to me the versions on the demo are better than those on Portal of I.

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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:14 pm 
 

EvergreenSherbert wrote:
HeavenDuff wrote:
Lee Harrison wrote:
The past music was better.


Please grandpa, tell us about the good ol'days again. I wanna know all about how every single musician from the 70's were better then every single musician from now.

To be fair... the 70's had some amazing progressive rock.


I'm not arguing otherwise. I love King Crimson, Pink Floyd, Yes and Gentle Giant.

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EvergreenSherbert
Metalhead

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Location: Directly behind you
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:16 pm 
 

Yes are my favorite so far, I haven't tried must of the rest. I'll probably get around to it though, Fragile was amazing.
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Lee Harrison
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon May 30, 2022 6:28 am
Posts: 314
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:40 am 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
Lee Harrison wrote:
The past music was better.


Please grandpa, tell us about the good ol'days again. I wanna know all about how every single musician from the 70's were better then every single musician from now.

Touché
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Benedict Donald
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:36 am
Posts: 1692
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 8:30 am 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
EvergreenSherbert wrote:
HeavenDuff wrote:
To be fair... the 70's had some amazing progressive rock.


I'm not arguing otherwise. I love King Crimson, Pink Floyd, Yes and Gentle Giant.


I also strongly recommend Genesis, Camel, Jethro Tull, Nektar, and Kansas (yes, Kansas !).

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King_of_Arnor
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:35 pm
Posts: 521
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:57 am 
 

Benedict Donald wrote:
I also strongly recommend Genesis, Camel, Jethro Tull, Nektar, and Kansas (yes, Kansas !).

I suggest Van der Graaf Generator as well, they're a treasure for metalheads. They made some of the heaviest and darkest music of the 70s, without any guitars. And Peter Hammill was a big influence on metal singers like Bruce Dickinson.

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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:02 pm 
 

Both Kansas and Genesis are extra cheesy, but they have great moments. Leftoverture is Kansas best record, IMHO. As for Genesis, their 71 to 74 run is fantastic. Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, Selling England By The Pound, and The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway are all amazing. SEBTP is my favorite out of the four of them.

If someone wants to get into King Crimson, I highly recommand starting with their debut In The Court Of The Crimson King. As for Gentle Giant, their record The Power & The Glory is the one I consider to be their best, although their debut and Octopus are also amazing.

Oh, and if some of you have not listened to Lemmy Kilmister's work with Hawkwind, the album Warrior At The Edge Of Time, is truly fantastic!!

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Slam_Grinder
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:33 am
Posts: 12
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:42 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
Both Kansas and Genesis are extra cheesy, but they have great moments. Leftoverture is Kansas best record, IMHO. As for Genesis, their 71 to 74 run is fantastic. Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, Selling England By The Pound, and The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway are all amazing. SEBTP is my favorite out of the four of them.

If someone wants to get into King Crimson, I highly recommand starting with their debut In The Court Of The Crimson King. As for Gentle Giant, their record The Power & The Glory is the one I consider to be their best, although their debut and Octopus are also amazing.

Oh, and if some of you have not listened to Lemmy Kilmister's work with Hawkwind, the album Warrior At The Edge Of Time, is truly fantastic!!


We really need a page like metal archives for other genres too.

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HeavenDuff
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Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 3863
Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 1:05 pm 
 

Metal-Archives is quite unique in that regard. There is no database, dedicated to a genre of music that is as detailed and in-depth as Metal-Archives. Rate Your Music is interesting too, and what I gravitate to for non-metal genres, but it's not the same as MA.

It's great to be a part of this community and to contribute in whatever way we can (be it on the forums, by adding info to bands and musicians pages, writting reviews, etc.)

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