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Nocturnal_Evil
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:58 pm 
 

This one's simple: list off genres you enjoy and then, if you can, pair them with one (1) album which you feel absolutely epitomizes the genre's sound. I'll start.

Folk metal - Equilibrium, Sagas; This album is quite possibly the best one the genre has to offer. It has everything for which the genre has gained so many fans: triumphant melodies, interesting songwriting, great use of traditional instrumentation and a killer metal ensemble to boot. Definitely recommended.

Power metal - Pathfinder, The Fifth Element; In a genre already saturated with cheesiness, might as well go all the way. That's what Pathfinder did on this record, but they managed to integrate some absolutely infectious melodies, amazing musicianship, and some great orchestration into the mix as they did so.

Outside of those two, I really am stuck when it comes to singling out one record to represent death metal, black, thrash, or any of the others I enjoy. Maybe you all can help me there.
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Metal_Jaw
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 1:48 pm 
 

For me, the epitome of traditional metal is Priest's Painkiller. Everything that makes metal music metal is taken to the Nth degree here. It has everything you need: powerful vocals, badass riffs, technical, screaming solos, and cornball but highly descriptive and passionate lyrics.

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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 1:55 pm 
 

Nocturnal_Evil wrote:
Folk metal - Equilibrium, Sagas; This album is quite possibly the best one the genre has to offer. It has everything for which the genre has gained so many fans: triumphant melodies, interesting songwriting, great use of traditional instrumentation and a killer metal ensemble to boot. Definitely recommended.


When it comes to folk metal, I tend to draw a hard line between epic folk and other folk metal as they feel so very different from one another. I think it's hard to compare more traditionnal folk metal and/or black/folk metal with epic stuff like Equlibrium. However, Sagas by Equilibrium is a good pick for epic folk. I love that record!

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HighwayCorsair
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Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:40 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 2:33 pm 
 

Is this even possible given how much variety a genre has once you step past a tiny, tiny niche? My favorite heavy metal albums- stuff like Powerslave, Melissa, Ample Destruction, The Deluge, etc- I like for very different reasons and moods. I love Blod-Draum for different reasons than Altars of Madnes. Ritual sounds nothing like All the Witches Dance like Triarchy of the Lost Lovers like Under a Funeral Moon.
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EvergreenSherbert
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 2:36 pm 
 

I'd challenge everyone to think of something for death metal, that's kinda a hard one for me. Closest thing I can think of is Suffocation, I don't know what album though.
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ThrashTilDeath530
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Joined: Fri May 13, 2022 1:17 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 2:46 pm 
 

I'll bite.
Vomitory - Blood Rapture. Brutal, unrelenting, gory, and surprisingly catchy without being "melodic" DM.

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robotiq
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:08 am
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 2:53 pm 
 

EvergreenSherbert wrote:
I'd challenge everyone to think of something for death metal


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Bishop_Drugsalot
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 3:52 pm 
 

EvergreenSherbert wrote:
I'd challenge everyone to think of something for death metal, that's kinda a hard one for me. Closest thing I can think of is Suffocation, I don't know what album though.

I think it's obvious and it's called Left Hand Path

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Nocturnal_Evil
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:00 am
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Location: The Summerlands
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 4:12 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
Nocturnal_Evil wrote:
Folk metal - Equilibrium, Sagas; This album is quite possibly the best one the genre has to offer. It has everything for which the genre has gained so many fans: triumphant melodies, interesting songwriting, great use of traditional instrumentation and a killer metal ensemble to boot. Definitely recommended.


When it comes to folk metal, I tend to draw a hard line between epic folk and other folk metal as they feel so very different from one another. I think it's hard to compare more traditionnal folk metal and/or black/folk metal with epic stuff like Equlibrium. However, Sagas by Equilibrium is a good pick for epic folk. I love that record!


You have a point there. Now I'm back to square one for pure folk metal...
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Gravetemplar
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Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 4:15 pm 
 

Black metal is clearly De mysteriis dom Sathanas. You may enjoy other black metal albums more but that album epitomizes (and summarizes) all previous and following black metal records.

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Forever Underground
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Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:35 am
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 4:47 pm 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
Black metal is clearly De mysteriis dom Sathanas. You may enjoy other black metal albums more but that album epitomizes (and summarizes) all previous and following black metal records.

I disagree, for me an epitome album in a genre is the one that takes to the highest level in every way what a genre can offer, so I don't think you can say that an album that was made at the dawn of that genre can be the one that exploits all the musical virtues of the genre because it has barely evolved. Besides, De mysteriis dom Sathanas is less influential than albums like Transilvanian Hunger or Filosofem.

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ThrashTilDeath530
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:25 pm 
 

There will be many correct answers for every genre. It's tempting to try and pick the original genre codifier or the "best" example, but that's not really necessary. It should just be a straight up example with nothing else mixed in. DMDS and Transylvanian Hunger are both great examples. Darkthrone has probably been more influential overall though.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:25 pm 
 

Just to counteract the mention of Pathfinder, I'd say power metal is pretty well represented by pretty much any Dungeon or Lord album. Just right in the middle of all the best traits of the genre. Melodic, super catchy, got some crunchy guitars and wild solos. Just no bullshit.

Or for US melodic metal, Jag Panzer's Ample Destruction - muscular, galloping thunder. Still fucking awesome.
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pressingtoplead13
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:41 pm 
 

I would say “Effigy of the Forgotten” by Suffocation pretty much encapsulates everything death metal is about.

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Gravetemplar
Metal freak

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:58 pm 
 

Forever Underground wrote:
Gravetemplar wrote:
Black metal is clearly De mysteriis dom Sathanas. You may enjoy other black metal albums more but that album epitomizes (and summarizes) all previous and following black metal records.

I disagree, for me an epitome album in a genre is the one that takes to the highest level in every way what a genre can offer, so I don't think you can say that an album that was made at the dawn of that genre can be the one that exploits all the musical virtues of the genre because it has barely evolved. Besides, De mysteriis dom Sathanas is less influential than albums like Transilvanian Hunger or Filosofem.

That's just your "favorite album of x genre" and I think contradicts what this thread is meant for. De mysteriis isn't even my favorite black metal album but denying it's the most representative black metal album ever recorded is preposterous. Those two albums ere heavily influenced by everything Mayhem did and wouldn't exist as we know them without De mysteriis dom Sathanas. And by De mysteriis dom Sathanas I don't just mean the final product but everything that lead up to it. It wasn't just an album but a cultural cultural event that defined a whole genre of music. Sure, there are a ton more shitty Burzum clones nowadays but that doesn't make Burzum more influential, just easier to copy.


Last edited by Gravetemplar on Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Forever Underground
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Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:35 am
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:03 pm 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
Forever Underground wrote:
Gravetemplar wrote:
Black metal is clearly De mysteriis dom Sathanas. You may enjoy other black metal albums more but that album epitomizes (and summarizes) all previous and following black metal records.

I disagree, for me an epitome album in a genre is the one that takes to the highest level in every way what a genre can offer, so I don't think you can say that an album that was made at the dawn of that genre can be the one that exploits all the musical virtues of the genre because it has barely evolved. Besides, De mysteriis dom Sathanas is less influential than albums like Transilvanian Hunger or Filosofem.

That's just your favorite album and I think contradicts what this thread is meant for. De mysteriis isn't even my favorite black metal album.

De mysteriis dom Sathanas being less influential than Transilvanian Hunger and Filosofem is just bonkers though. Those two albums ere heavily influenced by everything Mayhem did.

I think this is the second time we've touched on this topic but I think you're missing the point, the fact that Darkthrone and Burzum were influenced by Mayhem doesn't make their work a reflection of Mayhem's music. Blind Guardian are also influenced by bands like Queen and Uriah Heep but I don't think musicians who formed a power metal band because they loved Blind Guardian are going to tell you that they were influenced by the other bands mentioned.

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yungstirjoey666
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Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:47 am
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:21 pm 
 

Many people have different opinions on what feels most representive to each genre, but clearly the epitome of all metal is Painkiller by Judas Priest.


Traditional heavy metal: While Painkiller is most metal-defining, that one is more speed metal in my opinion. I'd say The Trooper by Maiden is more trad metal-defining.

Thrash metal: Kind of stuck between Ride the Lightning and Reign in Blood.

Groove metal: Pantera is obviously the best choice, but I'd also go with some songs from Metallica's Black album, which I consider groove metal (and you can't change my mind on that). Sad But True and Enter Sandman are some of the most mainstream "true metal" songs.

Power metal: Some will say Through the Fire and Flames or Emerald Sword, but here I'll go with Metal Opera era Avantasia; a perfect balance between the more melodic and the more aggressive side of power metal (though I prefer their later discography, but they are very theatrical and sometimes less metal for some). Hellfire Club Edguy is also a nice choice.

Metalcore: Hard to say because this genre has changed so much, but I'm looking for a good balance between metallic hardcore (the original metal + hardcore fusion) and melodic metalcore (which is practically melodeath or trad heavy metal infused alt rock/pop punk) for this. Maybe My Last Serenade by KSE?


Last edited by yungstirjoey666 on Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Gravetemplar
Metal freak

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:23 pm 
 

Forever Underground wrote:
I think this is the second time we've touched on this topic but I think you're missing the point, the fact that Darkthrone and Burzum were influenced by Mayhem doesn't make their work a reflection of Mayhem's music. Blind Guardian are also influenced by bands like Queen and Uriah Heep but I don't think musicians who formed a power metal band because they loved Blind Guardian are going to tell you that they were influenced by the other bands mentioned.

I edited my previous comment but my point still stands. What you say makes no sense, of course bands like Queen and Uriah Heep are way more influential than Blind Guardian in the grand scheme of things. The difference is those aren't power metal bands and have no reason to be brought up when deciding which is the canonically epitome of the genre.

Mayhem is a black metal band that recorded an album that changed and reshaped the whole black metal scene as it was recorded. Everything that made black metal what it is, from lyrical themes or appearance to riffs can be traced back to The mysteriis dom Sathanas and its recording process. You can even trace most of the Norwegian bands being formed in shows were Mayhem were already playing Freezing Moon.

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cultofkraken
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:30 pm 
 

Bishop_Drugsalot wrote:
EvergreenSherbert wrote:
I'd challenge everyone to think of something for death metal, that's kinda a hard one for me. Closest thing I can think of is Suffocation, I don't know what album though.

I think it's obvious and it's called Left Hand Path


Agreed.
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Thexhumed
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:15 pm 
 

Both these albums are the top S+ tier albums of each of their genres.

Heavy Metal: Seventh Son of a Seventh Son

Death Metal: Symbolic.

My musical and English knowledge won't let me elaborate on why I consider these 2 to be the absolute best, but they were the first albums that came to mind when I read the thread title.
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jgarci12
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:03 am 
 

The death metal answer to this question has always been, for me, Consuming Impulse

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Gas_Snake
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 5:58 am 
 

There is no way in Hell I can realistically make any statement like this. HighwayCorsair already said something similar, but basically metal in all its forms is so multifaceted that the very idea of coming up with a definitive album for a whole-ass subgenre or even sub-subgenre of metal is laughable.

Okay, I should demonstrate. Let's say I wanna try this for FUUUUCKIIIIINGGGG THRAAASSHHHH, 'cause it's seen as comparatively one-dimensional and 'cause I have a decent idea of the extents to which it can be taken. I'd have to consider things like intensity, songwriting, riff quality, riff density, songwriting, melodic hooks, songwriting, attitude, vocal technique, SONGWRITING, and a billion other ephemeral things that could come from a specific band's performance, they could be a matter of personal preference, they could even be perceived in a different way from nostalgia factor. Because of what I just listed, this is already basically impossible, people like different albums for different things and different bands are better at said different things.

And even when and if I consider all that, I still have to decide what to focus on, what I perceive to be most important. Do I pick Kill Em' All or Master of Puppets for historical significance? Reign In Blood for intensity? Feel the Fire for attitude, Darkness Descends for evil, Eternal Nightmare for DEM RIFFS, Time Does Not Heal for DEM NUMBERS OF RIFFS, Deception Ignored for how utterly fucking mental it is and because I sold my soul to it some years back? And on another note, even if I restrict myself to a specific subset, like tech-thrash or death-thrash or power-thrash or whatever else, there's still so much stuff to consider and so many different things that an album can do as a whole that it's just... no.

What a dumb thread.

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Forever Underground
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 7:16 am 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
Forever Underground wrote:
I think this is the second time we've touched on this topic but I think you're missing the point, the fact that Darkthrone and Burzum were influenced by Mayhem doesn't make their work a reflection of Mayhem's music. Blind Guardian are also influenced by bands like Queen and Uriah Heep but I don't think musicians who formed a power metal band because they loved Blind Guardian are going to tell you that they were influenced by the other bands mentioned.

I edited my previous comment but my point still stands. What you say makes no sense, of course bands like Queen and Uriah Heep are way more influential than Blind Guardian in the grand scheme of things. The difference is those aren't power metal bands and have no reason to be brought up when deciding which is the canonically epitome of the genre.

Mayhem is a black metal band that recorded an album that changed and reshaped the whole black metal scene as it was recorded. Everything that made black metal what it is, from lyrical themes or appearance to riffs can be traced back to The mysteriis dom Sathanas and its recording process. You can even trace most of the Norwegian bands being formed in shows were Mayhem were already playing Freezing Moon.

I agree with what you say about Mayhem's influence on the cultural environment and more specifically its vital importance for the development of Norwegian bands, but even if Burzum, Darkthrone, Emperor, Enslaved etc were influenced by Mayhem these bands had their own style and their own characteristics, and when I talk about albums like Transilvanian Hunger or Filosofem being more influential I mean this from a musical point of view as there are many more bands that are clearly inspired by these albums than by De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas sound.

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SladeCraven
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 1:51 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:42 am 
 

Forever Underground wrote:
Gravetemplar wrote:
Forever Underground wrote:
I think this is the second time we've touched on this topic but I think you're missing the point, the fact that Darkthrone and Burzum were influenced by Mayhem doesn't make their work a reflection of Mayhem's music. Blind Guardian are also influenced by bands like Queen and Uriah Heep but I don't think musicians who formed a power metal band because they loved Blind Guardian are going to tell you that they were influenced by the other bands mentioned.

I edited my previous comment but my point still stands. What you say makes no sense, of course bands like Queen and Uriah Heep are way more influential than Blind Guardian in the grand scheme of things. The difference is those aren't power metal bands and have no reason to be brought up when deciding which is the canonically epitome of the genre.

Mayhem is a black metal band that recorded an album that changed and reshaped the whole black metal scene as it was recorded. Everything that made black metal what it is, from lyrical themes or appearance to riffs can be traced back to The mysteriis dom Sathanas and its recording process. You can even trace most of the Norwegian bands being formed in shows were Mayhem were already playing Freezing Moon.

I agree with what you say about Mayhem's influence on the cultural environment and more specifically its vital importance for the development of Norwegian bands, but even if Burzum, Darkthrone, Emperor, Enslaved etc were influenced by Mayhem these bands had their own style and their own characteristics, and when I talk about albums like Transilvanian Hunger or Filosofem being more influential I mean this from a musical point of view as there are many more bands that are clearly inspired by these albums than by De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas sound.


This raises an interesting point. I've always thought Darkthrone to be the most influential black metal band in terms of the music itself simply because if I were to go pull 10 random bands out of the ether, they're more likely to sound like Darkthrone (especially vocally) as opposed to Emperor or Mayhem. Having said that, Mayhem (and DMDS in particular) are infamous even outside of the extreme metal world to an extent that I would say they are the quintessential black metal band, overall. I'd heard the story of how this crazy band called Mayhem wore necklaces made from the bones of one of their dead members, how one murdered the other, how one shot himself, etc. long before I'd ever actually heard their music or fully understood what black metal even was. I heard those stories as a preteen when I was still listening to bands like Korn and Slipknot exclusively.

Obviously this is going to be a purely hypothetical question, but if Mayhem released DMDS without all of other other sensational factors (no murder, no suicide, no church burnings) do you think that album would still be regarded by many as the quintessential black metal album based solely on the music itself? Granted, if Dead had still been around we wouldn't have Attila on the final recording, which would've changed the dynamic of the album completely. I realize he's a very divisive vocalist, but he clearly left an indelible mark on black metal with that album and I daresay it wouldn't have the same haunting mystique without him. Not in the same way, at least.
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Nocturnal_Evil
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Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:00 am
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:13 pm 
 

ThrashTilDeath530 wrote:
There will be many correct answers for every genre. It's tempting to try and pick the original genre codifier or the "best" example, but that's not really necessary. It should just be a straight up example with nothing else mixed in. DMDS and Transylvanian Hunger are both great examples. Darkthrone has probably been more influential overall though.


Well of course. We're not creating some all binding directory of "correct" representations of genres, just putting in our 2 cents for which represents the genre for us. It's just fun to see other peoples' picks and discuss them.

jgarci12 wrote:
The death metal answer to this question has always been, for me, Consuming Impulse


I always considered Consvmind Impvulse to be a death thrash record as opposed to a purely death metal record, but that's just me. Speaking of which, when it comes to death thrash, if you picked anything outside of INRI, your choice is incorrect.

Melodic death metal can pretty much be summarized with Twilight of the Thunder God. For me, that one has all the traits of the genre which keep me coming back to it.

If we're gonna dice black metal into first and second waves, I'd say Bathory's debut takes care of the first wave, while I'll add a +1 for Mysteriis... with the second.
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King_of_Arnor
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 1:39 pm 
 

For Thrash, I think Exodus' Bonded By Blood is the most representative album. It has everything you could want out of a thrash album; heavy riffs, fast tempos, ripping vocals, gang shouts, and badass lyrics. It doesn't cover all the bases of thrash but it gets the most basic ones down and set a template for many later bands to follow. BTW I didn't just want to pick some generic example since I wanted my pick to represent some of the best that the genre is capable of.

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steve1234
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 7:14 pm 
 

King_of_Arnor wrote:
For Thrash, I think Exodus' Bonded By Blood is the most representative album. It has everything you could want out of a thrash album; heavy riffs, fast tempos, ripping vocals, gang shouts, and badass lyrics. It doesn't cover all the bases of thrash but it gets the most basic ones down and set a template for many later bands to follow. BTW I didn't just want to pick some generic example since I wanted my pick to represent some of the best that the genre is capable of.


I think I would have to agree with this. I originally thought it should be Master of Puppets for sort of representing everything you can do in thrash or Reign In Blood for being so intense. But Bonded by Blood is just pretty much the album you could give to somebody to explain what thrash is because not all thrash is as extreme as RIB or as expansive as MOP. Bonded shows just enough of everything. Extreme Aggression by Kreator might work here too.

For death metal I think you could go with Human by Death, it's technical without being wankery, it's harsh without being BRUTAL, it still has an old school sound.

And to the people saying this is dumb of course you can't distil wide ranging genres to one album but it is kind of fun to try. I mean even my reasons for picking the albums I did were purely arbitrary.

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