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Torbald
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:07 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:50 am 
 

It certainly can happen when a band gets a new singer, but what are some examples of a band getting a new drummer, guitarist, or bass player and it genuinely gives the band a big kick in the ass? I often read reviews where they mention it happening, but my ears are not always convinced.

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BastardHead
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:54 am 
 

My go-to example for this is Suffocation. Terrence and Derek handled three key members all stepping away or retiring right around the same time by hiring a bunch of kids who weren't even born yet when Effigy came out and wound up releasing their best album in decades. The level of energy and creativity on that one is the kind of thing that only really happens when genuine youth is involved. I don't think they ever got bad but they were doubtlessly better when they were all in their 20s, and it turns out that hiring a bunch of dudes in their 20s is an excellent way to sound fresh and exciting again.

Another great example, though not a metal band obviously, is when Brian Robinson joined A Wilhelm Scream. I don't think I've ever heard a bassist completely alter the trajectory of a band to the extent that he did. Mute Print and Ruiner are fine albums, a little too heavy on the emo/post hardcore side of things for my taste but fine albums nonetheless. But Career Suicide and Partycrasher are fucking miles ahead of 99% of the punk scene. The band compares his arrival to Travis Barker joining Blink 182 but I'd argue it's closer to Cliff Burton joining Metallica. He is such a golden x factor that the rest of the band all admit that they committed themselves to extreme technical improvement just to keep up with him, and their style of solo-leaden melodic punk played at an average BPM hovering around six billion that has since become their trademark was only possible in the first place because he showed up and started shredding bass solos in the middle of things. Like holy fuck listen to this shit:

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Paka01
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:06 am 
 

Voivod are reliving their best years since Daniel Mongrain joined.
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Cosmic_Equilibrium
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Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:03 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:17 am 
 

TONS of examples of this.

My go-to for this question is Janick Gers for Maiden. Some people really don't seem to like him, but he absolutely reinvigorated the band when he joined. Apart from providing an interesting new angle in terms of his songwriting contributions, Maiden's live show got a huge kick up the arse from 1990 onwards. Ever since the Powerslave tour the band's live form had been on the decline, but the NPFTD and especially the FOTD tour (the first leg at least) were way tighter and more energetic than any Maiden shows had been for years. Compare Donington 1988 to Donington 1992, the 88 show is IMO the worst performance of Maiden's career, the 92 show is much much better and more on it, one of the great Donington performances.

Other examples of this with respect to guitarists: Phil Campbell and Wurzel in Motorhead, Doug Scarratt in Saxon, Ritchie Faulkner in Priest, etc. etc. There are others.

Outside of guitarists the other two obvious examples of new blood revitalising a band are Dio joining Sabbath and Newsted joining Metallica (not that Burton was lacking as a writer and performer but Metallica's live sound became a lot more brutal and heavy when Jason joined and hasn't been the same since he left). Newsted's stint in Voivod worked out pretty well too. Rob Lowe in Candlemass and Henry Vasquez in Saint Vitus are some examples from the doom scene.

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Demon Fang
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:42 am
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:38 am 
 

Gonna second Campbell and Wurzel, and will add Mickey Dee when it comes to Motorhead. Also, Dio did add some life back to Black Sabbath where those last couple of Ozzy albums had tried to drain the band of.

Christian Munzner originally joining Paradox turned them from a solid reliable band post-reunion to a fuckin' massive force. I do dig their first few reunion albums, but Tales of the Weird was on a whole 'nother level. Got Charly and the rest playing to a point that they nearly hit the same level Paradox hit back in Heresy.

Speaking of him but not because of him, Iuri Sanson definitely got Eternity's End going strong. Embers of War is a great album but even the first one he was a part of was a noticeable improvement over their debut.

I'd add in Pat O'Brien but simply because Gallery of Suicide is a noticeable improvement on Vile. Then there's Bloodthirst, which became the sorta archetypal album for the band going forward.

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HighwayCorsair
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:40 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:42 am 
 

It's easy to point to a lot of classic stuff, so I'll take a look at a more recent one. Eternal Champion- Arthur Rizk is not a founding member, and him joining turned them from really good into a juggernaut. He writes most of their music at this point and plays both guitar and drums on record.
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ChineseDownhill
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:41 pm 
 

In 2012 Cradle of Filth released their final album with Paul on guitar. I don't think The Manticore and Other Horrors is terrible, but I do rank it last among the albums they've made with Martin on drums. The high points are there (Succumb to This is great), it's just not as consistent as their best work.

Then the band added Rich and Ashok on guitars and Lindsay on keys / vocals and 2015's Hammer of the Witches was their best since Midian. Some people complained there were too many guitar solos on that one but I disagree. Two more excellent albums followed in Cryptoriana and (although Lindsay had left) Existence Is Futile. Now there's another new guitarist and keyboardist so I hope they take their time before releasing a followup to EIF.
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Nocturnal_Evil
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:33 pm 
 

Bernemann wasn't the original Sodom guitarist, yet he wrote some of their best riffs, and, in my opinion, the band has gone downhill since his departure.
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Bahana
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:00 am
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:34 pm 
 

John Bush made me want to buy an Anthrax album in the 90s.

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narsilianshard
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Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:22 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:47 pm 
 

HighwayCorsair wrote:
It's easy to point to a lot of classic stuff, so I'll take a look at a more recent one. Eternal Champion- Arthur Rizk is not a founding member, and him joining turned them from really good into a juggernaut. He writes most of their music at this point and plays both guitar and drums on record.

Great example. Armor of Ire was excellent, but Arthur's contributions made Ravening Iron a masterpiece.

For my money, Enslaved's years with Cato on drums were their best. He really added to their progressive approach in a way that Trym or Dirge weren't able to.
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King_of_Arnor
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Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:35 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:54 pm 
 

Tommy T. Baron joining Coroner (their original guitarist was Oliver Amberg, whose only major credit is playing on Cold Lake). His skills massively upped the band's technical ability, allowing them to make five classic albums in a row.

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HeavenDuff
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
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Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:26 pm 
 

Paka01 wrote:
Voivod are reliving their best years since Daniel Mongrain joined.


Great example! Mongrain was in an amazing death metal band called Martyr prior to joining Voivod, and more importantly, he was a huge fan of Voivod and actually played covers of their songs before he joined them. He puts his composition and playing skills to the service of a sound that he seems to really understand well. He has contributed to the best material of the band in decades, IMHO.

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Lane
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:31 pm 
 

All the respect to Mike, but Destruction really got their guitar department in order with great leads when he stepped away. I love his stuff, but he wasn't a very technical lead guitar player, now was he?

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CoffeeCat
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:32 pm 
 

Kiko joining Megadeth was pretty huge. It gave them a massive boost in thrashiness, and the solos are the best since the Friedman days. I don't think the two albums he's been on have been incredible, but they are a massive improvement over the bunch that preceded him in the 00s.
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blackdiamond74
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:22 pm 
 

Priest going from Dave Holland to Scott Travis was a pretty big positive and improvement to my ears. The change in drummers and the material that was Painkiller made it feel like a completely different band.

Justin Chancellor taking over for Paul D'Amour in Tool. D'Amour left of his own volition but Tool, in my shitty opinion, became 'Tool' when Chancellor came on board.

Oh, and Zakk Wylde will assuredly kill it for Pantera!

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narsilianshard
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:59 pm 
 

blackdiamond74 wrote:
Priest going from Dave Holland to Scott Travis was a pretty big positive and improvement to my ears. The change in drummers and the material that was Painkiller made it feel like a completely different band.

I also feel this way about Sin After Sin. Simon Phillips was one of the first drummers to do double bass and it completely changed Priest, and arguably metal, forever.
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lordcatfish
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 4:31 pm 
 

Matias Kupiainen joining Stratovarius. From what I gather, their 2005 self titled album is seen as their career low point, and relationships within the band were strained. Timo Tolkki left, Matias joined (and does the bulk of the writing I believe), and they've put out five great albums in a row.
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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 4:47 pm 
 

The recent drummers that Paradise Lost had ever since the past 15 years or so each added their own (drum) kick to their sound; making the drums a lot more enjoyable to hear than on the band's early records.

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Lane
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 11:54 am
Posts: 780
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 4:59 pm 
 

colin040 wrote:
The recent drummers that Paradise Lost had ever since the past 15 years or so each added their own (drum) kick to their sound; making the drums a lot more enjoyable to hear than on the band's early records.

True. Matthew Archer was lethargic. I still love those albums, though. It was a phase. History.

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RapeTheDead
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 5:13 pm 
 

HighwayCorsair wrote:
It's easy to point to a lot of classic stuff, so I'll take a look at a more recent one. Eternal Champion- Arthur Rizk is not a founding member, and him joining turned them from really good into a juggernaut. He writes most of their music at this point and plays both guitar and drums on record.


I'm sure the fact that he's a renowned sound engineer as well didn't hurt his case when he joined. Man, talk about a lineup addition that filled all their missing pieces.

Beneath the Massacre is a good one. They got a young guy on drums and his work on Fearmonger is mind-boggling. I have no idea why, but that album sticks with me easily while most of their back catalogue kinda just whizzes past without having a lot of impact.

It happens a lot with drummers, actually, especially for bands that play faster music with a lot of blasting. After a while the old guys just can't keep up with the tempos and you need a more spirited sprite to hold it down. Hate's most recent album was one of the best I've heard from them in a while with the new guy.

and of course, who can forget the legendary "Kiddie" Kearns, who put some master skinwork on what was arguably Bolt Thrower's best album.
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Frank Booth
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 6:43 pm 
 

While he's not a studio member, Charlie Koryn's current role as Incantation's de facto live drummer is a big part of their recent resurgence without a doubt. He's another young guy with all the speed, precision, and technical ability in the world, but more importantly, he has that animalistic old-school fury and barbaric pounding that a band like Incantation needs. He makes them pop and John knows what he's got and will do pretty much anything to keep him.

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Subrick
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 6:46 pm 
 

ChineseDownhill wrote:
In 2012 Cradle of Filth released their final album with Paul on guitar. I don't think The Manticore and Other Horrors is terrible, but I do rank it last among the albums they've made with Martin on drums. The high points are there (Succumb to This is great), it's just not as consistent as their best work.

Then the band added Rich and Ashok on guitars and Lindsay on keys / vocals and 2015's Hammer of the Witches was their best since Midian. Some people complained there were too many guitar solos on that one but I disagree. Two more excellent albums followed in Cryptoriana and (although Lindsay had left) Existence Is Futile. Now there's another new guitarist and keyboardist so I hope they take their time before releasing a followup to EIF.


Seconded in every way. In terms of those albums having a bunch of guitar solos, I actually quite liked it. Cradle had always been an atmosphere first sort of band, and while they had crazy riff work across much of their discography, solos were pretty infrequent for the most part. Having solos become a major feature of their more recent work has added a new dimension to their sound, and it helped that both Richard and Ashok were crazy shredders who wrote great solos.
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Ivan Drago
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:10 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 6:48 pm 
 

Another drummer to add, Eloy Casagrande joining Sepultura. I'm a fan of most of their post Max stuff and really liked the two Dolabella albums, but Eloy has absolutely kicked them up a notch and he's fucking insane to watch live

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twistedknife
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Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 2:01 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:36 pm 
 

Ralph Santolla joining Deicide for The Stench of Redemption immediately comes to mind. The Hoffmans were great, but when Ralph joined, it gave the band a new sense of direction.

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oldmetalhead
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:48 pm 
 

Roy Z, with both Dickinson and Halford , definitely upped their music. Playing , producing and giving direction.

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aaronmb666
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:20 pm 
 

twistedknife wrote:
Ralph Santolla joining Deicide for The Stench of Redemption immediately comes to mind. The Hoffmans were great, but when Ralph joined, it gave the band a new sense of direction.


Was about to say this too. Wouldve been really awesome if Dave Suzuki became a permanent member.

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Demon Fang
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:23 am 
 

CoffeeCat wrote:
Kiko joining Megadeth was pretty huge. It gave them a massive boost in thrashiness, and the solos are the best since the Friedman days. I don't think the two albums he's been on have been incredible, but they are a massive improvement over the bunch that preceded him in the 00s.

Can't believe I didn't list this one. Although I'd also hazard a guess that Chris Adler's addition (if only temporary) assisted quite well in that.

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CreepingDeath16
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:39 am 
 

oldmetalhead wrote:
Roy Z, with both Dickinson and Halford , definitely upped their music. Playing , producing and giving direction.

Oh, definitely this. I'm glad that Bruce's solo material is so well-appreciated at least these days, but Resurrection and Crucible are still criminally underrated.
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Cosmic_Equilibrium
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:05 am 
 

oldmetalhead wrote:
Roy Z, with both Dickinson and Halford , definitely upped their music. Playing , producing and giving direction.


100% this. Especially in the production department. AoB has the perfect production job for a metal album IMO. Maiden really should have hired him as producer when Bruce and Adrian rejoined.

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Benedict Donald
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:28 am 
 

Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
Rob Lowe in Candlemass.


Absolutely. I seriously believe the Lowe era may in fact be stronger than their classic 80s output.

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Spiner202
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:03 am 
 

lordcatfish wrote:
Matias Kupiainen joining Stratovarius. From what I gather, their 2005 self titled album is seen as their career low point, and relationships within the band were strained. Timo Tolkki left, Matias joined (and does the bulk of the writing I believe), and they've put out five great albums in a row.

This is exactly who came to mind for me too. He basically rebuilt Stratovarius in a way that is true to their original sound, but still feels like it isn't simply copying their past. Every album they've released since he's been there has been very good (Polaris) or absolutely incredible (everything else).

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Benedict Donald
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:27 am 
 

Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
oldmetalhead wrote:
Roy Z, with both Dickinson and Halford , definitely upped their music. Playing , producing and giving direction.


100% this. Especially in the production department. AoB has the perfect production job for a metal album IMO. Maiden really should have hired him as producer when Bruce and Adrian rejoined.


Agreed. As much as I love the reunion era, the production values have been its weakest component. Shirley is great for hard rock and has done solid work with Black Country Communion, Joe Bonamassa, etc., but is less than ideal for metal. With that said, I thank the gods every day that Andy Sneap hasn't produced these albums.

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HighwayCorsair
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Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:40 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:47 am 
 

Frank Booth wrote:
While he's not a studio member, Charlie Koryn's current role as Incantation's de facto live drummer is a big part of their recent resurgence without a doubt. He's another young guy with all the speed, precision, and technical ability in the world, but more importantly, he has that animalistic old-school fury and barbaric pounding that a band like Incantation needs. He makes them pop and John knows what he's got and will do pretty much anything to keep him.


Don't agree with this one. Charlie is a cool dude and an amazing drummer no doubt but they were starting to get momentum again before he could get into a bar, were playing big sold out venues and tours again around when Charlie's career was really starting to kick off, and he only even did a couple tours with them before the pandemic shutdowns. He absolutely is a great move for them live, though.
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Rodman
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:36 pm 
 

Not metal, but when Bad Religion added then-wunderkind drummer Brooks Wackerman in 2001 it totally changed the trajectory of the band. They were really in the toilet after 2 sorry albums following the departure of Brett Gurewitz, but the first album with Wackerman - 2002's The Process of Belief - is an absolute tour de force.
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Waltz_of_Ghouls
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:44 pm 
 

Gotta agree with the 2 Cradle of Filth mentions higher in the thread. Paul ran out of steam and his exit was much needed. Richard and Ashok really did give the band a big boost creatively. And I gotta also add that Martin replacing Adrian on drums was also a nice change. The guy is a beast behind the kit. Nic Barker remains my favorite CoF drummer, but Martin is solid. Never liked Adrian's drumming much. His blast beats always sounded weird to me.
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Terri23
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:31 pm 
 

Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
Doug Scarratt in Saxon


Doug doesn't get enough credit for this. Saxon were utterly fucking lost in the mid 90s, and really had been directionless for at least 12 years before that. Pretty much each album beginning with Power and the Glory had the occasional banger lost in a shit sandwich of forgettable rock tracks. They fell into the trap of chasing trends, and as a result, their discography from 1983 until Scarratt joined is so disjointed, and so mediocre, that only true Saxon diehards can really listen to it today. Scarratt joining the band coinicided with Saxon going back to the classic metal sound that they still pursue today, and for the last 25 years now, they really have been one of the consistent bands in metal today. This run is overlooked, as it's not part of the so called classic era. I would argue though, that they've released their strongest material in the time that Scarratt has been in the band.
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BastardHead
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 6:38 am 
 

Rodman wrote:
Not metal, but when Bad Religion added then-wunderkind drummer Brooks Wackerman in 2001 it totally changed the trajectory of the band. They were really in the toilet after 2 sorry albums following the departure of Brett Gurewitz, but the first album with Wackerman - 2002's The Process of Belief - is an absolute tour de force.


I agree that Brooks was a phenomenal addition and gave them a big kick in the pants (none of the previous drummers would've kept up with him on New Maps of Hell) but it was a situation where they kinda Lushered* it since Brett also rejoined before Process of Belief came out. He made the drumming better without a doubt but I don't know how much he can be credited for the songs in general just getting way better after New America. I'm not a Brett purist (The Gray Race stacks up with anything preceeding it) but he's an undeniably huge part of the band.

* - I don't know if there's a real word for this so I just use my own lingo. I used to work with a guy who's last name was Lusher and he was notorious for solving every maintenance issue by replacing six parts at once. The machines always came back up and running, but we never knew which part was actually broken. If there's an actual term for this approach please tell me because I'm tired of having to constantly refer to this one dickhead I worked with over a decade ago :lol:
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Rodman
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:04 am 
 

BastardHead wrote:
Rodman wrote:
Not metal, but when Bad Religion added then-wunderkind drummer Brooks Wackerman in 2001 it totally changed the trajectory of the band. They were really in the toilet after 2 sorry albums following the departure of Brett Gurewitz, but the first album with Wackerman - 2002's The Process of Belief - is an absolute tour de force.


I agree that Brooks was a phenomenal addition and gave them a big kick in the pants (none of the previous drummers would've kept up with him on New Maps of Hell) but it was a situation where they kinda Lushered* it since Brett also rejoined before Process of Belief came out. He made the drumming better without a doubt but I don't know how much he can be credited for the songs in general just getting way better after New America. I'm not a Brett purist (The Gray Race stacks up with anything preceeding it) but he's an undeniably huge part of the band.

* - I don't know if there's a real word for this so I just use my own lingo. I used to work with a guy who's last name was Lusher and he was notorious for solving every maintenance issue by replacing six parts at once. The machines always came back up and running, but we never knew which part was actually broken. If there's an actual term for this approach please tell me because I'm tired of having to constantly refer to this one dickhead I worked with over a decade ago :lol:


The Gray Race is indeed stellar, but the two albums that followed are do fucking lifeless that it felt like the band was breathing its final breath. But you are probably right that the revitalisation of the band had as much to do with Gurewitz's return as it did Wackerman's arrival.
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Lagartija
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Location: Catalunya
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:39 pm 
 

Marduk seem to get through drummers every five years or so, and they're always younger than the rest of the band. Not surprising, those guys are always on tour, and just watching what the drummer does every night is exhausting, let alone playing it.
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conquer__all wrote:
Sounds like a bunch of wank-off hipster shit to me.

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Frank Booth
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Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:29 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:32 pm 
 

Lagartija wrote:
Marduk seem to get through drummers every five years or so, and they're always younger than the rest of the band. Not surprising, those guys are always on tour, and just watching what the drummer does every night is exhausting, let alone playing it.

They really hit the jackpot with Simon. Lars was a monster but Simon is one of those ridiculous super-drummers like Lord Marco or Kevin Paradis who really doesn't seem to have any limits.

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