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Commisaur
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:16 am
Posts: 269
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 5:15 am 
 

So I looked up Kam Lee on Google and began reading this interview:

https://www.metal-rules.com/2017/03/30/ ... th-mantas/

I was absolutely shocked and disgusted by the below paragraph from the interview of Kam Lee describing Monte Conner and Roadrunner's racism against Asians:

Quote:
Kam Lee: It was a combination of events that happened [that led to Massacre's first breakup]. Just before all that in ‘87 we did a self financed east coast tour. We went from Florida all the way up to NY. The whole point of doing that tour was to get up to NYC to talk to Roadrunner Records. We even played some shows with Whipash in NY. We met with Monte Connor and another guy whose name I can’t remember, all I know is he pissed me off! The very first thing this guy says to me is, “What are you? I’m like, “What?” He then follows it up with, ”What nationality are you?” I said, I am Filipino, Hawaiian, Chinese and British. He looks at me and says, “You should tell people you are Hispanic.” I’m like WTF why? He says, “We just signed Sepultura, they’re from Brazil, and they are gonna be great. You should tell people you are Hispanic. Because no one is gonna follow a band with an Asian singer backed up by 4 white dudes.” We leave and hang out with Monte and get some NY pizza for the first time and I am pissed but I’ve got to hold it all in. So I find out later that the whole time I was talking to that guy in a room by myself, the rest of the band was in another room talking to somebody else from Roadrunner who was telling them to get rid of me.


Why did Monte Conner, Road Runner and eventually the members of Massacre themselves (after being convinced by the suits) have such an aversion towards an Asian American fronting a death metal band? Monte was so rudely fixated on Kam's ethnicity. Did he have market research to back up his racism and was he therefore just merely looking out for Roadrunner's profits? Or is he racist plain and simple? Did the label and Monte ever consider that in all likelihood everyone would just consider Kam's Asianness irrelevant?

Oddly I don't recall any label execs complaining about Kirk Hammet and Eddie Van Halen being partially Asian. Maybe its because they weren't the frontmen? Aside from these examples I can't think of a single classic rock, thrash, black, death, grind metal band in America/the West that had an Asian American member before the 21st century. In contrast, if I'm not mistaken, Asian Americans were instead readily accepted in classical music, punk and alternative

Some anecdotal evidence:

I recall hearing that there was a racist backlash/uproar against the band Journey hiring a man from the Philippines to be their new frontman/lead singer.

I also saw a video of Morbid Angel rehearsing at a storage space. The video was filmed in about 1991. The video was filmed by two Japanese extreme metal musicians who were visiting America. They interviewed Pete Sandoval and talked to the other band members briefly. Several of the comments on the YouTUbe video mocked the Asian guys and compared them unfavorably "image" wise, in an incredibly racist way, to Pete Sandoval and the others. Is it sentiments like this that led Monte Conner to try to get Kam Lee to deny his Asian heritage and adopt a Hispanic heritage?

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MalignantTyrant
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:27 pm
Posts: 1648
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 5:47 am 
 

I've never heard of such a sentiment specifically against Asian-Ameriacns in metal myself, at least not regarding OSDM. Now, of course, doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but I have never heard of such a thing. We can talk about other metal scenes/genres all fucking day, though...

Unfortunately, a ton of people are racist as shit. ̶A̶ ̶l̶o̶t̶ many of those individuals go on to start metal bands and still hold their prejudices. Doesn't say anything in particular about the OSDM scene. Also, keep in mind, this was the 80s and 90s, where people were arguably a lot more unabashed about their prejudices
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MetlaNZ
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Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:45 pm
Posts: 2697
Location: Lost in Necropolis
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 6:04 am 
 

Ever heard of Death Angel?

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Frank Booth
Can Bench 450

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:29 pm
Posts: 1516
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 7:35 am 
 

Kam Lee is also an extremely unreliable narrator, but a lot of the death metal rednecks were racist as shit and I'm hardly surprised.

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wone21r
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:26 am
Posts: 170
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 7:45 am 
 

Is this an OSDM scene thing, or an America/that location in general thing?

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KaiKasparek
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:06 pm
Posts: 958
Location: Suomi Finland Bukkake
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 9:16 am 
 

Commisaur wrote:
Quote:
. So I find out later that the whole time I was talking to that guy in a room by myself, the rest of the band was in another room talking to somebody else from Roadrunner who was telling them to get rid of me.



Sounds to me like Monte was trying to say whatever it took to get the guy to leave. Racist? Maybe, but even if he isn't he's still an asshole. I'll never forgive them for taking the original Beneath The Remains album cover and giving it to Obituary. I like Obituary, but who the fuck gives someone elses artwork to another band?
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FrostOfTheBlack
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 12:37 am
Posts: 13
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 9:43 am 
 

Commisaur wrote:
Oddly I don't recall any label execs complaining about Kirk Hammet and Eddie Van Halen being partially Asian.


I don't know about label execs, but I would venture to guess that many people (casual fans) aren't aware that Kirk or Eddie have/had Asian heritage.

MetlaNZ wrote:
Ever heard of Death Angel?


Easily the best Asian American band that I can think of. The Bay Area has long had an Asian American population though, which I think probably allowed them to succeed.

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HighwayCorsair
Knows a guy

Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:40 pm
Posts: 700
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:42 pm 
 

https://www.decibelmagazine.com/2020/06 ... -in-metal/

The amount of anti-Asian sentiment and attacks Andrew got for writing an article about anti-Asian racism was pretty telling to me, personally.
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Twisted_Psychology
Metal freak

Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 8:22 pm
Posts: 6260
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:32 pm 
 

Metalheads will brag about how open and diverse the community is until you challenge the status quo or suggest ways to improve inclusivity, then it's "how dare you bring identity politics into it?" and slurs out the wazoo.
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~Guest 280883
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:34 pm
Posts: 556
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:44 pm 
 

.


Last edited by ~Guest 280883 on Tue Dec 20, 2022 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Lord_Of_Diamonds
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:23 pm
Posts: 1618
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:52 pm 
 

This would have been great material for the "random metal questions" thread.
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HighwayCorsair
Knows a guy

Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:40 pm
Posts: 700
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 5:29 pm 
 

Wahn_nhaW wrote:
The overall point still stands, a lot of the old-school "legends" have proven themselves to be bigoted manchildren over time. Ironically, that has always included Kam Lee, but on this issue he is 100% right.


I figure it's like 50/50 for any really old metal musician- in any subgenre- if they suck or not at this point. Sorta like all old people honestly.
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~Guest 280883
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:34 pm
Posts: 556
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 5:33 pm 
 

.


Last edited by ~Guest 280883 on Tue Dec 20, 2022 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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AxeCapitol
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:38 pm
Posts: 590
Location: NYC
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 5:34 pm 
 

Monte is fairly “woke” now. If he was “edgy” back in the day, I’m sure his views have evolved.

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yungstirjoey666
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:47 am
Posts: 639
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 5:51 pm 
 

I mean, racism has always been a problem in the United States

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tahu157
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:22 pm
Posts: 1008
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 7:48 pm 
 

MetlaNZ wrote:
Ever heard of Death Angel?

Incidentally I met an older metalhead in a record store that said he thought Death Angel never got a fair shake specifically because they were Filipino.

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Terri23
Veteran

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:53 am
Posts: 3177
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 8:39 pm 
 

San Francisco is and was always more progressive towards social values than anywhere else in America. This would explain why Death Angel were able to get a start in the US, but perhaps didn't get the same chance in broader America when compared to groups like Testament.

While Kam Lee is hardly the most reliable source on most matters, I do believe him with regards to his comments regarding racism.
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Rodman
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:15 am
Posts: 976
Location: Sydney, Australia
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:27 pm 
 

tahu157 wrote:
MetlaNZ wrote:
Ever heard of Death Angel?

Incidentally I met an older metalhead in a record store that said he thought Death Angel never got a fair shake specifically because they were Filipino.


This would be a more valid assertion had Death Angel released more than one worthy album in their prime.

I reckon the combination of the experimental nature of everything post-Ultra-Violence and the bus accident that took them off the Clash of the Titans are the primary reasons for their B-level status.

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Frank Booth
Can Bench 450

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:29 pm
Posts: 1516
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:38 pm 
 

I think Death Angel also just stopped being interested in thrash for the most part. If it wasn't for the bus crash, Mark probably would have left because he was the most metal dude in the band, they would have gotten a different singer, and they would have fully embraced the RHCP/Faith No More/Primus/Fishbone direction they were already moving towards, and very likely would have been an early proponent of nu metal because Korn 100% would have been something they would have eaten up. It could have gone either way, but they may have had a shot at larger success had they continued in that direction.

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ModusOperandi
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 12:52 am
Posts: 1553
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:40 pm 
 

Death Angel’s prime is right fucking now. Their run since they’ve been back is by far one of the most consistent in the entire genre.
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HeavenDuff
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 5161
Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:01 pm 
 

yungstirjoey666 wrote:
I mean, racism has always been a problem in the United States


That's something we have to take into consideration for sure. Not that this would explain everything, but it's not obvious that because some death metallers are racist to asians, that it's a thing that's specific to the scene.

We should always call out racists and try to make our scene more inclusive, though. That's for sure.

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CoffeeCat
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2022 9:09 am
Posts: 339
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:53 am 
 

.
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Last edited by CoffeeCat on Wed Jun 28, 2023 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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morbert
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:36 am
Posts: 1276
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:55 pm 
 

KaiKasparek wrote:
Commisaur wrote:
I'll never forgive them for taking the original Beneath The Remains album cover and giving it to Obituary. I like Obituary, but who the fuck gives someone elses artwork to another band?


That was a dick move..... BUT! I love the Nightmare in Red artwork whereas I never liked the 'Cause of Death' cover.
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morbert
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:36 am
Posts: 1276
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 2:05 pm 
 

tahu157 wrote:
MetlaNZ wrote:
Ever heard of Death Angel?

Incidentally I met an older metalhead in a record store that said he thought Death Angel never got a fair shake specifically because they were Filipino.

Over here in The Netherlands, we all thought Death Angel was bad ass. However it was the young age of the drummer which was what most talked about. And they headlined Dynamo in 1990 for a reason eh.
There were some Dutch band at the time which had people with Indonesian ancestry in it as well. Nobody cared, it was cool. What mattered were music and attitude.
Can't say much about the U.S.
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From_Wisdom_To_Mabt
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 4:04 am
Posts: 258
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 11:25 pm 
 

KaiKasparek wrote:
Commisaur wrote:
Quote:
. So I find out later that the whole time I was talking to that guy in a room by myself, the rest of the band was in another room talking to somebody else from Roadrunner who was telling them to get rid of me.



Sounds to me like Monte was trying to say whatever it took to get the guy to leave. Racist? Maybe, but even if he isn't he's still an asshole. I'll never forgive them for taking the original Beneath The Remains album cover and giving it to Obituary. I like Obituary, but who the fuck gives someone elses artwork to another band?


Worked out for the best. The cover for BTR just fits so much better.

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