Taake has actually played multiple shows in Germany since that incident so that's kind of a bad example to use, but ultimately I agree with you that's it's up to the festival organizers/venues as to whether or not they want Pantera to perform or not. Phil is just going to have to live with it as he's not entitled to have any venue host him.

Sorry he got caught, not sorry he did it.

And then someone will call metallica hypocrites and dig up the Lars/James Seig Heil photo...

That link I posted last page (in response to a post from MOTA) of them performing in 2001 (how the fuck he thought he could get away with that we'll never know) shows clear as day that he's been up to this shit for a long time, it's all catching up with him now.
I saw them for the 3rd and final time on that tour and it was clear Phil was losing the plot. Booze, drugs, whatever it was, it brought out the worst in him. Spent half the show ranting and raving about bullshit, when they coulda been playing, I'm sure the rest of the band were thinking "Shut the fuck up Phil, let's get on with it!"

yes and no. He has a point regarding the Hitler salute and shouting WP. But I cannot unsee that is a dude from Metalsucks. If there's one site at the bottom of the food chain, it's them, being active making a hetze about anything scoring online karmapoints even before Erykah Badu made the Woke term mainstream. My point is, it's not only what is being said but who said it as well. He even tried to make a point of Phil wearing a Carnivore shirt without even being able to recognise a Carnivore shirt.

Yeah, Carnivore.
In germany

Difference is, Peter Steele isn't doesn't go on racsist rants and is alot more articulate than Anselmo.

You're being a little generous. Peter Steele was articulate, but the racist shit in his lyrics that people got mad at him about were braindead proto-4chan type screeing yelling about reverse racism and minorities getting welfare checks.

The big difference is that Peter Steele was writing those things in the 90s and is dead, whereas phil anselmo was still saying that shit and running around with a confederate flag like five or six years ago

Listen, I personally have zero feelings towards symbols. And my main issue was with that karmapointscoring Metalsucks hyopcrite who doesn't even know Carnivore!
I never cared about Carnivore using the Afrikaner Weerstandsbeweging symbol for simple shock value. I grew up in the eighties, when shocking the mainstream and shocking any idiot with a 'holier than thou' attitude was way more important than being bloody PC the whole time. So, I am just messing around a bit here and I admit to enjoy annoying PC kids. But what you seem to imply is: Using racist symbolism is okay if you're 'articulate'. Well. isn't that interesting So it isn't using a symbol but it's the person doing it then? Peter used the Afrikaner Weerstandsbeweging on shirts and patches. If he did that now, he would have been banned in Germany? Why didn't he get banned in 2006 then? Did Germany change all of a sudden? Most of the 45+ people among us here DO remember the shitstorms surrounding Carnivore and the first Type-O album however.

Don't get me wrong, I loved how Carnivore insulted many people and used shockvalue. And I am all for Carnivore having played Germany as well and I still play my two Carnivore albums regularly.
But Anselmo is just a dumb fuck. He contradicted himself on stage soooo many times. There are also many (even more) stage rants from him about all colours and cultures enjoying metal.
I blame it on a combination of lack of any intelligence and alcohol/drugs personally.
Still, no excuse. He's an asshole. And he crossed 'my' line as well. But it is all starting to feel like a witchhunt within the scene.
I know, I tend to contradict myself as well in the eyes of some here as I personally have severe issues with misogynists in the metal scene and assholes getting away with using girls while touring and beating up their partners at home. We all have different issues, borders and mores I guess. As most here don't care about mine, the feeling is entirely mutual. Anyway. This Pantera reunion is a cashgrab and I hope it will fizzle out soon enough

p.s.


Anyone being isulted now by an image of Sid in the seventies? Good.
Sid was far from 'articulate'

[quote="morbert"[/quote]


Carnivore wasn't articulate, it was the musical equivalent of sending your friend goatse using tinyurl. Big loud stupid shock value. Peter himself could be articulate in interviews but it hardly matters at all when you're looking at the music itself.

The reason I have an easier time swallowing Peter as a person (other than the fact that Pantera is boring as fuck whereas Carnivore and TON are really fun) is because it was ideologically vacuous shock rock stuff, and it was done in a time where acting like a shithead still had some degree of charm to it because you were coming off of stuff like the PMRC and the satanic panic. As cliche as it is to say, it was a different time. It was still fucked up, but it was fucked up in a stupid way that I think he ultimately grew out of at the end of his life.

If he did it now? Yeah, I and I think most people would probably shit on him, because it's not that era anymore. It's not that people are more "PC", it's that they are largely a lot more aware of racial issues in the first world and the effects of them on people. Wearing nazi regalia isn't making politicians powdered wigs and monocles fly off anymore, they're more happy that you're swinging downward than up at them if anything.

The stuff Pantera got in hot water with Germany over was not a different time, it was 2016, and Phil Anselmo was close to his 50s at the time. A 50 year old man waving a racist flag and ranting about the degredation of the white race isn't cool, or shocking, or whatever. It's just a sad old guy being a bigot in between songs.

Fair point, but would you rather he didn't?

I've stated repeatedly in this thread how the Pantera "reunion" is a travesty, and if this is what kills it, better than nothing I guess.

And fuck Metalsucks with AIDS. Those cunts are dramawhores who would and should have been run out of the scene.

Apologies are worth nothing if they're not meant. If you're sorry for gross bigoted things you've said, you better be held to the highest standards to make sure you don't say them again. 5 years down the road, you can't be caught complaining about the advancement of social justice in the world or saying slurs, 'cause that shows you didn't learn your lesson. Phil had been a scumbag for far too long at that point for me to easily believe that an apology from him is sincere.


Did you... seriously just use "AIDS" as an insult in the year of our lord 2023?

No, fuck Phil.

No one owes him anything. No one took his apology seriously. His racist rants are well documented, you fucking apologists.

Do you mean he has less of a point just because he works for a shitty web publication?


Don't expect too much from people who have "bukkake" in their location.

Same thing can be said about Rock Am Ring and Rock Im Park organizers/promoters. They 100% knew Phil is an idiot, but somehow hoped nobody would say anything against Pantera performing.

Is there some kind of list of all the shitty racists, misogynists and homophobes in metal I can refer to so I know who to stop supporting? Asking for a friend.

More like, who can keep track these days?

But there's the lesser talked about Malevolent Creation assholes and their song "They Breed".

At least with Malevolent Creation they eventually kicked their vocalist out of the band for using that slur (and other racist behavior, IIRC he actually got beaten up by one of them for it), refuse to ever play that song live and have apologized for it many, many times throughout the years (including as recently as last year when they did their first US tour in ages) more forcefully than Anselmo has. I believe they even supported the BLM protests after George Floyd's murder happened. Of course it's not up to anyone to forgive them or anything, but I think Phil has shown way less remorse or willingness to change.

Ironically, when they put out a statement last year it was in response to Jason Blachowitz (the vocalist on They Breed and the guy responsible for dropping the n-word) trying to get their shows cancelled. Alex Marquez called him out for it in a now deleted Instagram video.

Phil kissed dUg Pinnick on the lips....so how racist can he be? It's no excuse, but many people of varying ethnic groups struggle with different prejudices. How many people have a poor opinion of Metal fans? People used to assume I smoked cigarettes and weed just because I had long hair.

LIES!!!!!!

First of all, the song was written by Phil Fasciana who is a founding member of Malevolent Creation and has played on every single record. He also had this to say in a 2007 interview with Grimoire of Exalted Deeds;



...and this...



and this...



and this



Phil is just the guitarist in the band by the way and the vocalist on the album with "They Breed" which came out in 1995 is called Jason Blachowicz and he didn't leave Malevolent Creation until 2015.

There's also no record of Malevolent Creation supporting BLM lol (as if that would absolve them of anything), so what the hell are you talking about???

Fuck all the racist dipshits and their apologists.



like this guy

Get a clue dude. J Edgar Hoover was as homophobic as they come, and enforced a lot of horrible shit, whilst still being, sources claim, gay himself. Candace Owens is an actual black person who spews anti-black rhetoric on the daily. Phil Anselmo can kiss Doug Pinnick as much as he likes and still go on stage and talk about how blacks and their rap music get on his nerves. Get it yet?

Lmao, no need to edit your comment, Phil Fasciana (and not Jason Blachowitz) wrote the lyrics to "They Breed" in the first place and is a known blowhard and all round shithead who's also known for beating his female partners. Stop apologizing for racists.

Phil said he doesn't like Hip Hop. So what? You might not like Polka.

Lol...where's the clown emoji when you need one.

You don't have to like hip hop. But it's the way it's phrased that makes it racist if you start complaining about it while making racial stereotypes and other derogatory language. You know, like Phil did.

What I remember reading in previous interviews is that Phil wrote the lyrics but didn't include the n-word, that was thrown in by Jason as they, being utter morons to say the least, decided to keep it. The lyrics are still pretty messed up even without it though so I'm not going to split hairs. This was mentioned in an old interview with Chronicles of Chaos IIRC, and Phil didn't come off well in that one at all so I'm by no means defending him for that, the guy did say some pretty ignorant, fucked up shit. I believe that was also the same interview where he mentioned Jason got beat up (by him I believe) for wearing a KKK shirt. Blachowitz has actually been in and out of the band, he got fired after getting beaten up in 1997, came back in 2005, left in 2007 and then came back one last time from 2010-2015. Why anyone would let that guy in the band in the first place baffles me.

I believe the band actually threatened legal action over those Grimoire of Exalted Deeds interviews saying they were fabricated, but of course Phil trying to cover his ass would be a logical explanation for that. Obviously the excerpts you posted are racist as hell, I'm not disagreeing with you on that at all. I wasn't aware of any spousal abuse either (the only other really significant incident about Fasciana I'm aware of is when he claimed he shot a bunch of people who were trying to rob him a few years ago) but if that's the case then he's a piece of shit for sure.

Have you ever encountered someone who hated Metal and had stereotypical views about it? Phil also said Limp Biscuit sucks too. It's taste.

What he said about hip hop didn't seem to be very focused on his opinion of the music itself, dude

Yeah is KaiKasperov holding a mod's cat at gunpoint or something? They seem to spew awful, unintelligent garbage on the regular and the mods just ignore it like they're waiting for them to go away on their own lol.

Seriously. The guy has used the R slur multiple times and also called things "gay" and "AIDS".


Yeah, exactly.

Bruh

Phil isn't hating the music, he is hating the ideologies that (some) of the rap/hip-hop artist back then spoke about.

He straight up suggested that any issue with African-American hardships has nothing to do with him because of when he was born, he doesn't believe in racial oppression.

He may not be a deep rooted racist, but he is blatantly an ignorant bigot.

That aside, still can't work out why he still feels the need to talk about how much he dislikes rap music. At a metal show...where a majority of the crowed probably aren't rap fans anyway. Is he like that fragile he needs massive crowd support to back him?

I did watch the "white pride" speech he did from stage in the 90s. Other than the dimebash druken antics, he rarely brings up race from stage. There's no need to hold things against people indefinitely.

Nah. He deserves all the scorn and cancelations he's getting. Phil Anselmo's thing has always been to talk shit and say incendiary crap and then sober up and ask for sympathy. It's pathetic, he's a big baby. He's also alarmingly stupid. He said and did unforgivable stuff to his bandmates (the same band he's now reforming).

I also believe he's bigoted and would be one of those people who'd say asinine shit like "...but I have black friends" or "some of the more respectable blacks who don't partake in crime are fine". He obviously has said truly racist and Nazi-sympathetic shit in private and happened to slip up that one time on stage.

It's time for a vulgar display of consequences.

It's happening boy...die mad!

I don't think anyone should really feel sympathetic towards Phil, the guy probably made enough money in the 90s to live a decently comfortable life so if the Pantera reunion is dead and buried after this he's not going to be out on the street. I guess this backlash could also spread to his other bands, but it is what it is. If he wasn't expecting this to happen he shouldn't have said or done the shit he did. If he spends the rest of his life not being able to play live he's got no one to blame but himself.

No bucket in Austria? Or no show? Because a show without a bucket isn't a show. Maybe they should just cancel the bucket and let the whole thing fall to shit.

This is the bucket at Chula Vista. [I call it Chula Vista because that's where is it, and they've changed the name of the place so many times nobody knows what it is anymore.]

Anyway, this is the traditional Chula Vista bucket for the metal shows.



Bucket in zoom:




That's a nice big bucket. You can stretch out and romp in that bucket.

Look at what they've done to the bucket for the Fake Pantera show!



Bucket in zoom:



This:



To this!



[Please: You'll need to imagine that's the same venue using different colors and being presented upside down because that's exactly what it is.]

They've split the bucket! At a Fake Pantera show! They put in a bunch of orchs (right orch, center orch, left orch), making the front bucket 20% the size it should be and what is has been for other metal shows!

Who wants to sit at a Fake Pantera show? Why do we need the regular bucket chopped up and shrunken down into a bunch of orchs?! Are people too fat to bucket? They need a seat? They take a seat for Fake Pantera?

Is that the deal?

I want the bucket. Like in Chile. One giant fucking bucket.

But no. They've mutilated it.

What's the deal?

It's clearly not a one time slip. Skip to 6:21 and you'll hear him say white power and see him give a nazi salute. The video is from Massachusetts 2001.03.15 and recorded by WAAF 107.3 for Real Rock TV.

That's a nice bucket!

Why didn't you use the youtube "start at" function to set it to 6:21 instead of asking us to go there?

EDIT: I'm talking to MetlaNZ, DemonFilth2001, and Bahana.

Exactly. There's tons of shit he's spewed through the years. No wonder Vinnie Paul wanted absolutely nothing to do with him until the very end of his life, he really sank Pantera; first by spreading himself thin with a million other projects and then talking shit about his ex-bandmates. It's chickens coming home to roost.



Fuck off, no one was talking to you.

I was talking to MetlaNZ, DemonFilth2001, and Bahana.

Not you.

^Is that you ZarathustraHead?

Y'all defending Phil are coming across a bit desperate. He's actually just a racist asshole that everyone is getting tired of.

its bizarre because its so obvious. sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and sometimes the angry old guy from louisiana who keeps getting caught yelling about racist shit is just racist