Uhhh... it's a knife. You have no way of knowing that it's a Hitler Youth knife, specifically. You're reaching pretty hard here.

I still listen to the old Absu stuff from time to time... but I can't bring myself to listen to Prescription McGovernment and his new, ridiculously contrivedly named band after learning how much of a douchebag he can be. Like, you wouldn't think a dude so flamboyant as him would turn out to be a transphobe, but here we are.

Wishing you the best with your current transition!

Cartman of South Park

Let’s play down

Give me a break, look at the shape of it

It's shaped like a knife. Truly a mind blowing investigative revelation.

Yeah. Also, even if it was a HJ dagger, would it really discredit them repeatedly speaking against NSBM in interviews?

Even if it was and Hitler Youth dagger, would that necessarly mean they support the Nazi ideology?

It's a very strange thing to own to be honest, and especially to take with you to your band photo shoot.

You can drop the lame defensiveness by the way, I wasn't planning on gaping your asshole for liking 'sketch' bands or whatever.


>It's shaped like a knife. Truly a mind blowing investigative revelation


You can tell fairly well what kind of knife or sword or most melee weapons by their profile alone, if you're knowledgeable enough about the subject (which I am almost sure that I know more about than you do).


And anyway, dude being a think-tank guy is more of an indicator of fascism than anything for me, really.

this one btw:

ICED EARTH and Demons & Wizards
I didn't own much but I threw what I had in the trash bin. Didn't even bother to bring it to a thrift shop or sell it. Because for obvious reasons. I even had some promos which probably were worth something on discogs but anything with Schaffer is worth less than nothing now to me.
TO, THE, TRASHBIN

You have to understand that Katharsis always used heavy fascist imagery to mock the NSBM scene so I think that knife is actually in line with what was revealed later. They kind of infiltrated the scene (them being German, etc) and cleverly mocked them all. It was actually pretty shocking (for some people at least) when the NSBM scene found out what it was all about and they are one of the most hated bands on pro-NSBM forums like the now defunct NWN and ROD. They've always been openly anti-NSBM but for some reason right wing skinheads always though Katharsis "were one of their own". A certain well known individual who loves to get pepper sprayed never loses an opportunity to get super salty about Katharsis every single time they are mentioned.

Their second demo cassette stated that “Katharsis strongly disdains any form of so-called ‘sophisticated’ or ‘political’ Black Metal. Misanthropy towards everyone !”, and Drakh expressed the view that “everybody who really believes in those stupid ‘14 words’ meaning, belongs into the oven, too”; the original statement by white nationalist David Lane, “We must secure the existence of our people and a future for White children”, was altered by the band and printed on several of their releases, either as “We must secure total annihilation of humanity and end all life on this planet” or “We must secure the depravation of the children and ruin the whole fucking world”.

Here's an article by Drakh:
https://www.euractiv.com/section/justic ... ys-expert/

Not saying they weren't super edgy back in the day. They were. That was kind of the point I think, over the top satanic black metal that mocked the sheep mentality of NSBM tropes, they were as anti-politics and nihilistic as you get.

Damn, what a fucking load of crap, hahahaha! Jesus, I asked a legitimate question, and you entirely lost your shit. Damn, it's crazy you don't see the irony of calling others reactions "defensive".

And man, you're new around here, stop acting so mighty and tough. You have no fucking clue who any of us are, what we stand for and the knowledge we have. If you had any kind of clue who I was whatsoever you would not presume that I listen to sketchy bands.

The kid just stopped wearing diapers and he tries to give us lessons on antifacism. Sit down, you're making an ass of yourself.

If that's what kind of knife it is, it's still in poor taste. Like incorporating Nazi imagery in general just for "shock value" even if you don't support Nazism.

Sure, but that's a different debate. It's an interresting one, really. But bands like Katharsis, Slayer, Motorhead and a whole bunch of other ones using Nazi imagery for shock value, or aesthetic reasons, cannot be equated, in good faith, with supporting fascism/nazism.

With all the information provided in this thread so far about Katharsis, it seems very obvious that they are not supporting fascism, and that they are actually firmly opposing it.

There's an obvious difference between a band like Kathasis and say Grand Belial's Key.

It's an interesting debate tho the part about people who own memorabilia and shit, I personally don't really see a problem in the sense of historical importance, you can't just selectively ignore history because it's not pretty, but at least for me people who have tons of military type stuff tend to be people I probably wouldn't find myself getting along with in general, there'd be a clear personality conflict

Im not sure if it makes them Nazis per se but I wouldn't want them to show up when I need a babysitter

Part about shock value I completely see no problem with using that imagery, i really kinda liken it to making really dark jokes constantly, it's a form of pissing people off and getting under their skin, which is something Im certainly guilty of doing from time to time just to be an asshole, but also mass genocide is such a fucking perfect subject for a metal song like are you kidding, it's just so impossibly brutal and horrific that people actually do this to one another, fits right into metals tendency to explore the darker side of life.

Idk I try to look at it like people are allowed to have any completely disgusting sick impulse or interest or thoughts but some shit in life you're not supposed to actually do.

I'm not sure I have an actual point but it's certainly an interesting conversation to have

Roger Waters

https://rockcelebrities.net/david-gilmo ... er-waters/

I want to die

As an add-on, look up "ww1 combat knife germany" on Google. You're going to find a few knives that look the same (not to mention predating the existence of the Hitler Youth).

Like this:

Are you doing what I think you're doing right now lol

Yeah, this is a recent one for me too. Huge, huge, huge bummer.

I'd probably be able to enjoy Obituary if it weren't for John Tardy and his asthmatic vocals.

I dont really care about some guitarists wife opinion tbh
Roger Waters might be a jerk sometimes, but over all way more intelligent than the majority of online-karmapoint-scoring keyboard warriors.
I am anti-Putin btw but also very much anti-Israeli expansionism which borders on lebensraumism as well.

Agreed

And I agree with HeavenDuff, going through a bands photos looking for a knife where we have no idea if the band themselves knew what kind of knife it was, and even if they did, whether it was just coz it looked cool or for shock value or what is over the top. I dont buy from music from anyone who is an actual nazi and/or has that shite in their music but ill give the benefit of the doubt to bands who were young and stupid and trying to be edgy. I admit, sometimes its hard to know, but I imagine a lot are on the shock side rather than being part of some neo nazi group. Having that shite in your music is an absolute no go though.

Metal gets a bad name for this stuff but I actually think metal fans are way more conscious about what they listen to and making a decision on what and what not to listen to based on their beliefs. I dont see any concerted effort really in other forms of music to boycott / blacklist artists in the same way. I don't recall much talk about people not listening to Travis Scott after all those people died at his concert. Lots of really over the top homophobia and misogamy in hip-hop yet I don't remember anyone refusing to listen to Big L or Jedi Mind Tricks. That was a good 20 years ago at this stage though so things may have changed.

Roger Waters is the worst. It doesn't kill my enjoyment of classic Pink Floyd albums though. He's also a terrible musician too. The more creative input he had over Pink Floyd music, the worst the albums got, specially once the resto of the members couldn't control Roger's ego. The Wall was already mediocre compared to previous stuff and The Final Cut was the lowest point of their career. It's not like the Gilmour albums are the best thing ever but at least they are decent albums.

Sadly are some tweets by Waters himself

More inquietant is that Ukraine is full of nazi and Putin did good to invade them

In truth Iced Earth died for me decades ago, but I get you. I probably have some of his music laying around. Not sure it's even worth digging for it to throw it out.

Come on, that's simply not true.
Okay, I somewhat agree on Final Cut, but Roger Waters alone wrote music for some of the Pink Floyd's best songs. Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun, If, The Nile Song, Money, Brain Damage, Have a Cigar, Welcome to the Machine... FFS almost whole Animals is practically his solo effort and that album is easily in the top 3 Pink Floyd albums altogether.

As someone that wears glasses and loves dank-ass raw black metal, the first page of this thread hurts my feelings.

My point was that he needs to be supervised and creatively supported by other people during his process for it not to turn awful. When the rest of the band decided not to participate actively on the composing process (even though it was mostly based on Waters ideas) the band imploded. He hasn't released a single good thing ever since, unlike Gilmour who still releases decent stuff (a bit too generic but still decent).

Unless someone is actively promoting nazi ideology or paedophilia in their lyrics, or does something that actively affects me or someone I care about, I couldn't care less.

*I don't wear glasses, but I just want to support you in some way* I guess some people just tend to stereotype/to generalize everything and everyone, and there doesn't seem to be anything that can be done about it. I remember there were some people who complained about an Icelandic band Zhrine that "why are they dressed in peacoats/jackets on their band photos?" - Well, I think the absolute majority of their fans just do not care about it at all. And the band's music and vocals are quite dark and extreme to me.
Can't think of any raw black metal band (I think when it comes to a "studio only" band that only have photos and do not play live, there is a probability that some of their members wear glasses in their daily lives, but they just might take off the glasses before taking photos of the band), but I tried to remember a more extreme black metal-related bands in general where "Half of the band's members wear glasses" and the first one that came to mind was Anaal Nathrakh - and they are "Industrial Black Metal/Grindcore" (although this might be considered a "cheating" because this project has only two members).

Don't worry.

As a massive fan of classic Megadeth, I just can't really bring myself to listen to any of their newer albums. I realise some of them are pretty stale, but Mustaine has just gone off the rails these recent years. Same thing with Tom Araya of Slayer, but then Slayer aren't really doing anything these days.

I don't particularly like Pantera's style of music, but Phil Anselmo seems like such a dipshit to me that I just can't be bothered to make an effort to listen to them.

I also never bothered checking out Akercocke because they did some band photos dressed in fancy clothes and I thought that looked lame as hell.

I did the same, but caught them at a festival a few years ago though and thought they were fantastic

Regretfully, Neurosis. That Scott Kelly news was a crusher. With Kelly being one of the founders of the group and an integral part of their songwriting, it's lost its luster for me and that really sucks. For fuck sake I have the cover of Times of Grace tattooed on my left shoulder. I have a tiny bit of sympathy for the guy due to his troubled upbringing, past alcohol/drug abuse, and severe mental health issues but what he put his family through is unforgiveable.

Maybe I'll feel different and come back to their music again, unlike Inquisition who are now persona non grata.

Yeah, I understand what you mean. These things can taint the music we like. At least when it comes to Neurosis, the other guys reacted quickly, kicked him out of the band and condemned his actions. Kelly, at least seems to aknowledge the issues with his behavior, even though he did terrible things to his family, and it's also possible that he is just pretending to be sorry because his behavior was made public.

But Dagon and Inquisition... The guy won't even aknowledge that what he did is wrong. He even refuses to recognize that he did anything to behin with, at least publicly. He's played it extra safe and just used cold emotionless legal statements to protect his own pedophile ass. The other guys in the band are just as bad for harboring this piece of shit and letting him off the hook and still working with him. Inquisition is shit listed for me as well. Unless Dagon actually comes clean, apologizes and shows that he's doing an effort to improve as a person. But I don't see this happening ever. Plus he's a neo-nazi piece of shit. Not redeeming quality whatsoever. The guy is literal waste.

That Wintersun thread is certainly reminding me of why I barely ever listen to them anymore, including their first album. Like... that debut is still pretty good imo, but it's a lot harder for me to connect with the music with Jari constantly embarrassing himself and revealing himself to be a con artist. Their last couple albums were boring as hell, and Jari's shitty personality just makes them worse.

Yeah, I definitely get that. While what he is doing is nothing like physically or psychologically abusing people, or being outwardly racist, sexist or hateful in general, he is a kind of abuser, in the sense that he is lying to people, manipulating them and beneffiting of their credulity.

He's a con artist. Not only that, but when people confront him, he tries to gaslight them and turn their words against them.

I sometimes revisit the first Wintersun album, as it was quite formative for my musical tastes and I have good memories associated with it. I sometimes revisit the first Ensiferum album as well. However, just like you, I'm very much done caring about anything new Jari will put out (if he ever does).

Bring Me the Horizon mainly because of Oliver Sykes. Oliver Sykes urinated on a fan because she refused to suck his cock after she was invited on the band bus, super asshole and nasty. Indeed, he was even detained for a few days. All this happened in the UK. After Oliver Sykes, to all the other members of the band for normalizing and supporting this shit.

Oli Sykes is such a shitty excuse of a human

I stop listening to pretty much any band that I find out has shitty views on race, politics, gender, etc. I don't care if it's the entire band, just the band leader or one person the others are covering for, etc. Harbor toxic and bad people in your group and I will not listen if I find out, period.

There's also people who have just straight up been convicted of awful and reprehensible crimes. I don't want my money or attention going to a murderer, rapist, etc. Even if the person is dead, I still don't want record labels and families profiting off of their work.

These artists are on my shit list. I will never listen to these artists again, and I will take every opportunity to dump on them and encourage others to not support them.

- Malevolent Creation
- Jon Schaffer/Iced Earth
- Varg/Burzum
- Proscriptor/Absu
- Gaahl/Gorgoroth
- Nokturnal Mortum
- Inquisition
- Destroyer 666
- Dissection

There's some bands like Vektor and Neurosis that I'm a bit more torn on. In those cases it seems like the rest of the band was unaware of one specific member's actions. In both cases, they basically split up over it, and in the case of Dave DiSanto, he seems pretty remorseful about what he did and how he situation played out. I'm not unsympathetic to someone who made a mistake and has shown genuine effort to change, but it's definitely a case by case thing for me as to how much of a second chance I'll give them.

---

This might also be controversial, but I absolutely will judge a person who continues to listen to artists with racist, sexist, alt-right, etc. views even after discovering it. I understand the concept of separating the art from the artist, but when that artist is still active, alive, and profiting from your support, you send a clear message that society tolerates their views and that you want to reward them for it.

It's the same as people who say "I don't like Chik-Fil-A's political actions, but really love the sandwiches", or "I don't agree with JK Rowling, but I'm picking up that new Hogwarts game". The message you are sending is that you value the life and rights of me and my entire community less than your stupid fucking $5 sandwich, or the $70 you spent on a videogame for a dozen hours of entertainment.

If you can't take a moral stand against bad people, especially if it barely impacts your life to do so, then you are part of the problem, and not an ally.

I love Carnivore's music but they're a little tough to listen to, especially Retaliation, because of how big of a piece of shit Peter Steel is.
Race War has some truly despicable lyrics and of course the Agnostic Front song Public Assistance which Peter wrote is disgusting. I think he even designed the Pro-Reagan Public Assistance shirt for AF. Reagan doesn't get crapped on enough for putting a smiley face on fascism and making it palatable for so many Americans.

Oh yeah, and that stupid crypto-fascist symbol they put in album sleeves.