It didn’t prove shit actually. All it proved was how poorly you understand individual vs. structural actions even as many people described the differences to you.

Your response actually just proves my point that you have no values or morals. You continue to buy music even though the production of it requires exploited workers and ruins the environment. To use your poison the well ethos that defines all of your judgments, you join unions despite some unions being corrupt and therefore, by your logic, all unions must be corrupt and forfeit. You are complicit in forms of exploitation and you care only about what gives you pleasure and makes you feel cool and smart and supported so you’re a hypocrite who should not be listened to nor taken seriously.

And yeah, I’m mad. You literally accused me of being ok with child slavery and colonial exploitation because I own a laptop and then said that my anti-fascist beliefs are hollow and insincere because of that, despite numerous posts in this thread where I explain why I don’t buy Nazi music and don’t want Nazi metal bands around, but think other things are better handled on a global and structural level. So fuck you man. You have shown again and again you don’t care about shit but are more than happy to talk shit because you actually don’t have any skin or emotional investment in the conversation. The biggest mistake I made was engaging with you at all and once you showed how vacuous of a person you were, I realized I should have remembered Sartre’s comments about the danger of interacting with anti-Semites as though they believed anything and disengaged.

So is it okay for a band to allow profits from their record sales to go to NS organizations as long as the lyrics and message are leftist? Should we listen to bands that do this or not?

Jesus Christ man. You’re the annoying dude I met in high school that I thought was cool because he “questioned everything” but now realize is just a sad adult that never matured past being 17.

I guess we live in a society?

You’re the joke in that meme! You’re the one who is being made fun of!

This is such a stupid take that I actually had to get out of lurking and respond to this.

We live in a free capitalist society (well, most of us anyway). Anybody can buy someone else's product and then resell it. If a Nazi owned store buys a bands albums to sell, how on earth is that on the band? Why should anybody stop listening to a band because of that? There is nothing the band could do about that. The only thing we as consumers can do is choose where to buy those albums from, so maybe we should buy them from a store not owned by a Nazi.

What did you expect would happen? Are you new to the Internet? These discussions have been around for a long time (I remember some dating more than 20 years) and always end up the same.

I like decaf latte.
I make my kids do chores, for no money AND I like Weird Al Yankovich too.

So there.

Perkele!

If your band signs to HHB or you sign to a label that has a distro deal with HHB you are saying it's okay for profits of your band to be given to Nazis. HHB is huge and has distro deals with labels. It's not like they are just running around scouring record stores for records. They make large wholesale.purchases from labels. They used to have a whole page of the affiliated labels they had contracts with, but I assume they took it down after people started getting angry about them distributing for NS labels. They didn't even used to try to keep it a secret. Their festival featured Satanic Warmaster and was headlined by GBK. I think MetalSucks or one of thenother click bait metal sites wrote an article bringing attention to it a few years back, so they started being less blatant about it. No one is accidentally packing up huge orders which probably cost hundreds of dollars to ship and weigh a ton, writing HHB on the box, and taking it to the post office without knowing what they are doing. As for not buying these records from a place that distros for Nazis, that's literally what I said when I said it doesn't matter what you buy, only where you buy it from and was met with opposition.

So again, buying a Discharge record from HHB does more to support NS organizations than buying a Dark Fury record from a rando on ebay or second hand in a record store. It doesn't matter what the lyrics are about. The lyrics aren't determining where the money goes. Actions speak louder than words and just like NSBM, a lot of RABM bands are just gimmick and their beliefs stop at the lyrics and art. It is perfectly possible for a band to be DIY and not affiliate with these businesses, but they choose to anyway mainly because playing rockstar takes a priority over the political beliefs they sing about, and they don't really care where the money is going as long as their label will fly them to Europe and book them shows or whatever.

Paska, can someone explain and help me understand why someone is being threatened with BAN for this comment??

Yeah it's pretty crazy I get threatened with a ban while another person is just allowed to hurl endless personal insults at me, but it's not surprising. I am stating things that a lot of people who like to argue about this don't really want to get into. No one wants to hear things like profits of Old Nick records going into the pockets of Nazis via Phantom Lure buying wholesale ASRAR records and stuff like that. They just want to buy their Old Nick records and feel like they are a better person than the guy who bought a Grand Belial's Key record.

Can someone explain what the exact issue is with Drudkh?
I only have one album, somewhere, probably their first or second which I remember liking but haven't heard in ages.

I only found this on some website
"“Blood In Our Wells”, which is an album that was dedicated by the project to Stepan Bandera – a polarizing Ukrainian Nationalist and politician who at one point considered working with his Nazi counterparts, but was ironically arrested by the Gestapo and eventually, years later, assassinated by the KGB. One album resulting in accusations that have – in all honesty – only made the project more alluring. Common sense should make the difference between historical lyric writing and actually supporting National Socialism starkly obvious."

It's literally a side project of Roman Saenko of Hate Forest. I mean they have a song called Sunwheel and another about the Ukrainian Insurgent Army. Drudkh are pretty open about their beliefs.

I think this is an intelligent observation about a topic that comes up constantly with strangers on the internet, but never comes up in real life.

In "real life" I would never imagine a conversation in which I have to explain I'm wearing a shirt from a Nazi murderer but I'm not supporting him. I'd probably get fired on the spot and some of my friends wouldn't want to associate with me. Yet on the Internet everyone is making mental pirouettes to justify wearing that short of stuff.

I can at least respect someone who says he actually supports Burzum or whatever other sketchy band instead of people trying to play with weird mental boundaries of what is morally reprehensive and what isn't. I feel like you guys are trying to portrait a very white and black topic with too many greys.

You can support the band that is Burzum without supporting or caring about Varg as a person. Believe it or not, some people listen to metal because they are interested in music. Do you research every member of every band you listen to? Do you like music or just see it as a tool for propaganda?

Yes, I tend to research every member of every band I listen to. And no, you can't "support the band that is Burzum without supporting or caring about Varg as a person". Buruzm = Varg. It really is pretty simple.

So. Tool of propaganda is the answer. Also, you must have no life or listen to a very small amount of music.

Now what do you think about leftist bands funneling money into NS organizations via their labels and distro deals like I was saying before you derailed everything and brought the discussion back to the first page? Please read the thread before making comments that ignore literally everything that has been said. You are posturing.

But Burzum is obrigatory to listen from second wave of black metal because of its relevancy,wanting or not (Sorry my english).

Whatever makes you sleep at night. At least have the balls to defend your ideals. You guys want to listen to problematic music without any of the problems it carries. Talk about "posturing"!

Tell me you haven't read any posts in the thread without telling me you haven't read any posts in the thread.

I don't drink coffee. Maybe that'll make you feel better.

Because you are avoiding the question I am going to assume you are fine with supporting leftist bands that funnel money into NS organizations.

I can at least respect someone who says he actually supports leftist gimmick bands who don't care where their album sales go or whatever rather than trying to play with weird mental boundaries of what is morally reprehensive and what isn't.

Bro, you've failed to provide any examples of this actually happening. Some irrelevant link to some Discharge records sold on HHR is not the band "funneling money" into a label that distributes Goatmoon albums. That's not how music distribution works. It's the other way around. The distro pays the label for stock for them to resell.

If you're wondering why we went half this thread without anyone taking you seriously, it's because you made it obvious that you don't know what you're talking about.

Listening to Burzum, and Supporting Burzum are two different things, in my opinion. Like, if you download his music, or buy second-hand records and listen to them on your own, you aren't supporting Varg, as you are not giving him money.

Sure.But Gravetemplar doesn't agree.But ok.I mean,i don't blame someone who hates him (Maybe everybody hates him).

I'm not reading this entire thread, because I'm lazy.

I think avoiding NSBM is fairly easy. It's a subset of a genre that is already largely underground, you have to really dig to find stuff like Aryan Terrorism or Der Stürmer, and they're not really hiding their ideology, so they're not tricking you into supporting sketchy stuff.

The borderline cases is where you have to do it case by case. Do you want to support a band that tours with NS acts? Do you want to support a band whose vocalist has a sketchy side project? Or someone who supports a hateful ideology but doesn't use it in the musci? In our current Capitalist system we can only strive be informed consumers, so the responsibility is ultimately on the individual to decide how to spend their money and attention. People saying "there is no ethical consumption under Capitalism" are just appropriating Marxist lingo to justify being hypocrites. That's not me saying you have to be morally perfect in your purchases, but you have the tools to be informed, especially when it comes to metal.

I don't think buying Burzum albums make you a bad person. But you have to know who is benefiting from your money and attention. That is your responsibility. Separating art from the artist is bullshit. Varg Vikernes is not hiding who he is, and you have to own that fact when you listen to it.

TL;DR Fuck Nazis, don't support them.

What do you mean he doesn't agree? I may have missed the post where he said that, but did he say he had something against listening to Burzum's music or just about actually supporting Varg?

So. Tool of propaganda is the answer. Also, you must have no life or listen to a very small amount of music.

Now what do you think about leftist bands funneling money into NS organizations via their labels and distro deals like I was saying before you derailed everything and brought the discussion back to the first page? Please read the thread before making comments that ignore literally everything that has been said. You are posturing.[/quote]

I have no life and listen to a small amount of music......considering, literally, how much music exists.

I don't drink coffee. Maybe that'll make you feel better.[/quote]

That might be because you've never had a decaf latte! They're delicious!

It's like you can't read. HHB buys Discharge records from Havoc. HHB makes profit. HHB uses the profit to buy Goatmoon records from Werewolf. Obviously this goes both ways but also Discharge is gonna be putting more money into that pool than Aryan Pride 1488 or whatever so you could also say they have more responsibility

Oh so the exact same thing I said.

Posturing. You admittedly won't take the time to read the posts in which this is addressed but took the time to type out a response that brings the thread back to the first page. Hope you get the pat on the back you want.

Well, if you want to discuss any of the points I made I am open to do so. If my question was answered in the first page, then please quote it. It looked like a giant waste of time, with people responding to obvious bait instead of the OP.

I'm not summarizing the whole thread for you because you are lazy (but apparently not lazy enough to not respond) If you want to contribute, figure out what we are talking about. Otherwise it's safe to say you just came in here looking for internet points.

I'm gonna phrase this in a way that's easy for you all the understand. If AryanAdolf1488.com sold Dawn Ray'd records, it would still be bad to buy them regardless of the bands politics. Now replace AryanAdolf1488 with HHB or Phantom Lure or any other distro selling NSBM.

Agree.

This sounds like a situation where a nazi shop is funneling money into leftist bands for some weird reason, and not the other way round as you are trying to make us believe.

I thought I specifically warned about continuing to troll? Oh well. The rest of us can carry on.