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Autumn_colors
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:59 am
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Location: Israel
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:20 pm 
 

I see a very clear difference between:

Urban-Black Metal Vs Nature-Black Metal

Think it should be a thing

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LithoJazzoSphere
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:11 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:24 pm 
 

Annable Courts wrote:
Eh. First album there's a definite grindcore signature, they were open about incorporating a Napalm Death component to the sound, yet the closest death metal elements were the very occasional blast-beatish but not quite blast beat and some dark tremolo picking, the barks of course. Then after that, it would be impossible to use the term death metal to describe them, even a little. Until they added blast beats around Mechanize when they got Hoglan on drums. Still a stretch to call it extreme metal.


I'm not saying they're a full death metal band, I'm just saying that's a component of their sound. Songs like these are significantly more extreme than your groove metal bands like Pantera, Prong, White Zombie, Lamb of God and such, and purely lumping them in that category is misleading. And they had blastbeats before Mechanize, just listen to 1:48 of "Cyberwaste".

Spoiler: show


Spoiler: show

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Annable Courts
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:25 pm
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Location: Cheese
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:00 pm 
 

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
Annable Courts wrote:
Eh. First album there's a definite grindcore signature, they were open about incorporating a Napalm Death component to the sound, yet the closest death metal elements were the very occasional blast-beatish but not quite blast beat and some dark tremolo picking, the barks of course. Then after that, it would be impossible to use the term death metal to describe them, even a little. Until they added blast beats around Mechanize when they got Hoglan on drums. Still a stretch to call it extreme metal.


I'm not saying they're a full death metal band, I'm just saying that's a component of their sound. Songs like these are significantly more extreme than your groove metal bands like Pantera, Prong, White Zombie, Lamb of God and such, and purely lumping them in that category is misleading. And they had blastbeats before Mechanize, just listen to 1:48 of "Cyberwaste".

Spoiler: show


Spoiler: show

wow man, shit, Fear Factory blast beats !
I wasn't aware they had blast beats on this record (I'm not familiar at all with non-Dino FF, and VERY familiar with Dino-in-the-lineup FF). Are there many more tracks with blasts on Archetype ? And fuck yeah, Messiah, and I see your point. There is a certain extreme element to their sound that for e.g. LoG don't have.
I know it's been contested earlier, but I'll stick to my label of "sci-fi blockbuster metal" then and drop the term 'groove'. The term 'sci-fi' contains the extremeness, as sci-fi can somtimes be very violent or brutal. Can't think of a more accurately descriptive expression in two words or less.

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MorbidEngel
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:37 pm
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Location: New Jersey
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:15 pm 
 

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
Annable Courts wrote:
And they had blastbeats before Mechanize, just listen to 1:48 of "Cyberwaste".


H-K had them on Demanufacture as far back as 1995, and multiple songs in their death metal days had them.
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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:59 pm 
 

Annable Courts wrote:
Are there many more tracks with blasts on Archetype?


I'll have to listen to the album again to be sure, because if there are many more they'd be scattered in short intense bits, but I know that "Corporate Cloning" has some somewhat slower ones.

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Annable Courts
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:25 pm
Posts: 119
Location: Cheese
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:11 pm 
 

MorbidEngel wrote:
LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
Annable Courts wrote:
And they had blastbeats before Mechanize, just listen to 1:48 of "Cyberwaste".


H-K had them on Demanufacture as far back as 1995, and multiple songs in their death metal days had them.

Oh I guess yeah, good call. That part to me somehow didn't come across as "blast beating" per se, in a death metal sense, more like one of their hardcorish parts (although I realize core genres have blasts). But yeah technically that's a blast.

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
Annable Courts wrote:
Are there many more tracks with blasts on Archetype?


I'll have to listen to the album again to be sure, because if there are many more they'd be scattered in short intense bits, but I know that "Corporate Cloning" has some somewhat slower ones.


Right yeah that's blasting. And that's a nice chorus too btw. Huh. I'm just now realizing that I might enjoy this album. I'm going to give it a full listen. For years I considered that Wolbers guy to be purely a Euro hustler/hipster type who could barely handle the bass, and simplified the FF sound tenfold.

It's interesting how we'll just remember a certain aspect from a sound (and block out other aspects). In my mind death metal and Fear Factory were totally distinct, because I've loved both a lot but never thought of the two in the same world. I guess when you break it down and tell me there are elements of extreme metal there, even after 'Soul', I'd have to agree. Like I was watching Wolbers play the Cyberwaste riffs the other day on YT and he mentioned "they're a mixture of groove, hardcore and GRINDCORE" and I was thinking shh'yeah right wth is he talking about grindcore, but if you think about it it's actually correct technically.

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LithoJazzoSphere
Metalhead

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Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:27 pm 
 

Annable Courts wrote:
Oh I guess yeah, good call. That part to me somehow didn't come across as "blast beating" per se, in a death metal sense, more like one of their hardcorish parts (although I realize core genres have blasts).


Even more than that, while blast beats have become more associated with death and black metal, they came out of the hardcore scene from groups like D.R.I. long before extreme metal.

Annable Courts wrote:
And that's a nice chorus too btw. Huh. I'm just now realizing that I might enjoy this album. I'm going to give it a full listen. For years I considered that Wolbers guy to be purely a Euro hustler/hipster type who could barely handle the bass, and simplified the FF sound tenfold.


He's an inferior guitarist to Dino and has a less impressive and consistent body of work, but Archetype is a pretty solid album. Transgression is much weaker, but it has its moments.

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Annable Courts
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:39 am 
 

OK next band. This must've been done before surely but Opeth. I mean like, Opeth Opeth, so before they went prog rock, because then they're just... prog rock.

"Progressive death metal" always sounded totally misleading to me. I'd think of death metal, so blast beats and evil tremolo picking with growls, that's just more technical and avant-garde with its riffing. "Progressive" isn't supposed to mean "switches from clean to heavy on every song".
In that sense I'd think a term like "folk" would much better translate the acoustic guitar/soft drums/clean singing aspect. So to make this the shortest possible term: "folk doom-death" ?

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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:55 am 
 

"Progressive" doesn't necessarily imply technicality though. In their case it has more to do with Mikael's influences from the 70s prog rock scene, which results in long, complex, meandering songs in unconventional structures with unusual chords, melodies and harmonies, and with many mood changes (more than just clean to heavy), odd time signatures, incorporation of instruments like Mellotron, doing concept albums, etc. Doom is certainly a component of their sound at times, but it's not prominent enough to be in their primary subgenre tag to me. Folk influences are also certainly a strong facet of their sound, so while in the abstract I can grok the argument, they execute that aspect in a different way than what we typically call "folk metal", so that would make things even more confusing to put it as a primary tag.

Honestly they're something more like prog/death/melodic/black/doom/folk, but that gets pretty unwieldy. In practice "progressive" tends to be a catch-all category that captures the vibe of having a lot of disparate elements like that fused together. And in actuality, what they were doing was more literally "progressive" at the time as well, there really weren't many bands doing what they were when they came out.

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Annable Courts
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:15 am 
 

Damn, missed again !
I guess you're right. I just think the term prog gets thrown around a bit too lightly. Opeth, "Prog death metal" ? I dunno about that. I think the problem is just the death metal part. I don't think they've come up with a genre description that fits their style of heaviness. You can use growls for vocals, but be groovy with the instrumental, like there's very little if any at all actual 'death metal' on Deliverance, and it's widely labeled "progressive death metal". Even the production isn't death metal-y, it's more prog rock applied to heavier metal music with growls, it's very organic and has that natural reverb to each instrument, if anything it's closer in my mind to perhaps gothic or doom.

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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:30 am 
 

It probably does, but I don't think Opeth is one where it's misapplied. There's some sloppiness in categories that become a dumping ground for bands that don't fit better anywhere else, and this is particularly true for progressive, avant-garde, and alternative metal, in my experience, possibly a few others as well. Gothic metal used to be that way as well, though it seems that subgenre understanding has been democratized a little more since then and symphonic metal bands are labeled in their own grouping most of the time.

I've been batting around a thread idea for awhile because we keep running into this issue in thread after thread with what constitutes aspects of "death metal", and how far outside of it you can go and still be associated with it. I think I might just start it. The simple answer is that because it's "progressive" death metal, it's a hybrid of death metal and other genres, which dilutes the purity of the death metal portion, but I don't think it completely removes it any way you look at it.

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Annable Courts
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:46 pm 
 

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
It probably does, but I don't think Opeth is one where it's misapplied. There's some sloppiness in categories that become a dumping ground for bands that don't fit better anywhere else, and this is particularly true for progressive, avant-garde, and alternative metal, in my experience, possibly a few others as well. Gothic metal used to be that way as well, though it seems that subgenre understanding has been democratized a little more since then and symphonic metal bands are labeled in their own grouping most of the time.

I've been batting around a thread idea for awhile because we keep running into this issue in thread after thread with what constitutes aspects of "death metal", and how far outside of it you can go and still be associated with it. I think I might just start it. The simple answer is that because it's "progressive" death metal, it's a hybrid of death metal and other genres, which dilutes the purity of the death metal portion, but I don't think it completely removes it any way you look at it.

Indeed. The best example of this would be the genre name "industrial metal". It can mean so many totally different things all at the same time. Originally industrial metal means the Godflesh sound, a grindy bass, electronic drums, repetitive vocal patterns. Ministry were also mixing elements of actual industrial, the independent genre, with a bit of metal. Then a band like Fear Factory came around and 'industrial metal' could now mean metal that incorporated elements like synths or played in the modern metal mold (syncopated gtrs locked in with the drum kicks). Then certain bands mixed metal with actual techno elements, even a band as mainstream as Rammstein is labeled as 'industrial metal'. So that term can mean a dark, smothering musical style that sounds raw and dirty (Godflesh) that would be categorized likely under 'extreme metal', as it can mean poppy shiny techno sounding music that would barely make it in 'metal' at all.

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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:26 pm 
 

Right, because even before it was imported into metal, the term "industrial" was a contentious term. Some rivetheads insist that it only applies to the early noisy projects like Throbbing Gristle, Whitehouse, SPK, Einsturzende Neubauten and the like, but it came to be used to describe a lot of what is just essentially dark electronic music you could hear in a club, with sometimes tenuous connections to the goth or punk scenes. It doesn't help that some of the earlier more extreme practitioners went on to experiment with it themselves. It's the same sort of divide you get like with metal purists where an argument arises whenever poppier elements come into play.

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Annable Courts
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:49 am 
 

Well like is Rob Zombie 'industrial metal' (to the metal purist or otherwise) ?
What if I literally took a techno song, pulsating beat and heavy bass with sparkly overhead samples and everything, and threw in a few distortion gtr power chords for the whole song, is that now industrial metal ? Is something like Static X, say on a track like 'Cold', that could be played in night clubs, "industrial metal" ? Justin Broadrick would surely take exception to that, but, it isn't clear.

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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:51 am 
 

Well it's in that grey area where it's not accepted here, but it's clearly darker and heavier than most rock bands, so a loose tag of "industrial metal" doesn't especially bother me. Neither the metal nor the industrial purists are going to accept it though, because it's in the Nine Inch Nails vein of aggressive, noisy, spooky but catchy songs. "Cold" slightly less so, since it's basically a half-ballad.

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Annable Courts
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:36 pm 
 

Yeah. I'd say it doesn't matter what purists say in any case, industrial or anything else, because they stick to the technical definition so much they might miss other more important aspects.

It's interesting too that the 'industrial' component in some of those more commercial bands has created a bridge between the underground area that is metal and the broader public. You might think in theory metal is anti-mainstream in itself, but industrial metal would be even more inaccessible, but it's often the other way around. Most people obviously would find early Godflesh terrifying, but those same people would likely have more tolerance for Static X or perhaps even Fear Factory than regular metal, because the synth/electronic feel makes that connection betw. metal and mainstream music.

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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:14 pm 
 

It really came out at the right time. After a decade of light synthpop and fluffy glam metal, industrial rock and grunge cranked up the darkness and angst and prepared people for it. I almost wonder if it's possible for a modern revival of it at this point due to another decade of sugary electronic pop recently on the charts which is probably in its twilight years. Except that rock and metal is virtually nowhere to be found in the mainstream, and the scenes are so fragmented now.

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Annable Courts
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:55 pm 
 

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
It really came out at the right time. After a decade of light synthpop and fluffy glam metal, industrial rock and grunge cranked up the darkness and angst and prepared people for it. I almost wonder if it's possible for a modern revival of it at this point due to another decade of sugary electronic pop recently on the charts which is probably in its twilight years. Except that rock and metal is virtually nowhere to be found in the mainstream, and the scenes are so fragmented now.

Right yeah that's interesting what you bring up: have there been darker decades, even in mainstream music, or has radio music always been at the same level of sunny cheerfulness ? I guess the 80s and 90s were the darkest decades. A band like Depeche Mode, as commercially successful as they were, were quite dark for a major radio band, and a lot of the commercial synth music had songs with relatively dark atmospheres, like Sweet Dreams say, while the 90s did push even grunge into the mainstream so I'd say the 90s were the decade with the biggest heavy music presence at surface level, the dirtiest at least, perhaps with the early 2000s (Linkin Park or KoRn or anything associated with super commercial nu-metal) but no later than that.

Like I'm not sure you could have screaming and heavy power chords casually in a widely broadcasted song today the way the early 2000s had LP, or the 90s had Nirvana. Like heavy music was so big in the 90s even Metallica (Black Album) could be played at major events or at parties and ppl wouldn't freak out. I don't think bands like Black Sabbath benefited from such freedom during their time and I don't think metal is accepted that way today anymore.

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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:50 pm 
 

I don't know though, it seems most non-extreme metal and rock is being labeled into the "classic rock" category now. I've heard songs like "Sad But True" or Green Day's "Basket Case" in casual restaurants, so apparently the public deems them inoffensive enough. Deicide and Dark Funeral are probably pretty safe from becoming relegated to supermarket music. I guess quantifying decades as a whole is quite a difficult task, because there was plenty of dark art in the 70s too, especially in cinema. The 00s are surprisingly difficult to assess for me, because even though I quite consciously lived through them, I was so tuned into increasingly underground music that much of the time I lost site of the overall picture of what culture at large was into. And everything was splintering then anyway with the rise of digital media.

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Annable Courts
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:18 am 
 

I'd say the 2000s started out heavy, with the nu-metal scene in particular being so mainstream. Linkin Park's Hybrid Theory was actually the no.1 selling album to start the millennium off. People from older generations must've thought the world was going mad seeing Mudvayne and Slipknot with their crazy makeup and screaming on TV. Then it got quieter pretty quick, the regular commercial RnB ish crap, but I wouldn't be able to answer why. I think the mainstream "hip" scene is still plenty nasty but not as heavy. It's mostly rappers with 99% of their body surface covered in tattoos now from what I can tell.

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Oheao
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:54 pm 
 

Improv metal? I assume that there are albums of just improvised metal, not sure if it's considered to be its own subgenre though.

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Gameofmetal
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:57 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:35 am 
 

Oheao wrote:
Improv metal? I assume that there are albums of just improvised metal, not sure if it's considered to be its own subgenre though.

I think Pyrrhon did an EP once that was improv material or something.

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droneriot
cisgender

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:44 am 
 

Annable Courts wrote:
Right yeah that's interesting what you bring up: have there been darker decades, even in mainstream music, or has radio music always been at the same level of sunny cheerfulness ? I guess the 80s and 90s were the darkest decades. A band like Depeche Mode, as commercially successful as they were, were quite dark for a major radio band, and a lot of the commercial synth music had songs with relatively dark atmospheres, like Sweet Dreams say, while the 90s did push even grunge into the mainstream so I'd say the 90s were the decade with the biggest heavy music presence at surface level, the dirtiest at least, perhaps with the early 2000s (Linkin Park or KoRn or anything associated with super commercial nu-metal) but no later than that.

Like I'm not sure you could have screaming and heavy power chords casually in a widely broadcasted song today the way the early 2000s had LP, or the 90s had Nirvana. Like heavy music was so big in the 90s even Metallica (Black Album) could be played at major events or at parties and ppl wouldn't freak out. I don't think bands like Black Sabbath benefited from such freedom during their time and I don't think metal is accepted that way today anymore.

Maybe for Americans the 90s were a darker decade. For me obviously eurodance is the least dark music ever made, even disco is darker in comparison.
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pickup
Mallcore Kid

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:40 am 
 

Hithere

I am doing some research on metal genres, and I am wondering:
Is there a specific list of 'approved' metal genres and subgenres that is used as a reference/filter to add to releases on this site?
Or can a user create any genre name he seems fit for that music?

If there is a list, is there a link to it?

T.i.a.!

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Smalley
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:33 pm 
 

pickup wrote:
Hithere

I am doing some research on metal genres, and I am wondering:
Is there a specific list of 'approved' metal genres and subgenres that is used as a reference/filter to add to releases on this site?
Or can a user create any genre name he seems fit for that music?

If there is a list, is there a link to it?

T.i.a.!
Here you go: https://www.metal-archives.com/browse/genre
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pickup
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:38 am 
 

Smalley wrote:
pickup wrote:
Hithere
Here you go: https://www.metal-archives.com/browse/genre


Thanks, but those are genre categories and not the genres themselves.

I have come to suspect this website does not have something like a curated or 'approved' genre list?
Anything can be entered (symphonic avant-garde uplifting funeral melodic disco-doom metal) and will be accepted until 'the community' corrects it?

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vindfukk
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:49 pm 
 

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
I think the vast majority of the time "extreme" means that it contains a substantial dose of harsh vocals. You have bands that are mostly straight power metal, but because of the vocals they get classified as melodic death metal, and other bands that write songs that instrumentally would be called technical death metal, but because the vocals aren't harsh they end up as progressive or power metal.


gimme this shit already, i wanna hear it

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Auch
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:51 pm 
 

vindfukk wrote:
LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
I think the vast majority of the time "extreme" means that it contains a substantial dose of harsh vocals. You have bands that are mostly straight power metal, but because of the vocals they get classified as melodic death metal, and other bands that write songs that instrumentally would be called technical death metal, but because the vocals aren't harsh they end up as progressive or power metal.


gimme this shit already, i wanna hear it


https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/ch ... f_bodom/22

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Lord_Of_Diamonds
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:47 pm 
 

pickup wrote:
Thanks, but those are genre categories and not the genres themselves.

I have come to suspect this website does not have something like a curated or 'approved' genre list?
Anything can be entered (symphonic avant-garde uplifting funeral melodic disco-doom metal) and will be accepted until 'the community' corrects it?

You're pretty much right, I think. For the most part, if the genre tag matches the music, it doesn't matter if it shows up when you put it in Wikipedia or not or something.

I mean, of course there are genres that this site doesn't recognize. There are genres that the site considers to not be distinct enough to be classified as different genres. Like, alternative metal, although it's a rare term in the band genre field, gets changed to alternative rock because all "alternative metal' is is just heavy alternative rock. There's also "pornogrind", which the site doesn't recognize because it's just groovy goregrind.

And genres that are mostly image-related/lyrical theme-related and not music-related tend to get changed.

I'm no moderator, but that's just what I've observed while using the site.
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~Guest 282118
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:53 pm 
 

Those are sharp observations. Simply put, I believe that happens because none of those styles really comply with the unspoken "metal riffs first and foremost" rule that holds great power over the vetting process.

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blackmantram
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:51 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:14 pm 
 

vindfukk wrote:
LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
I think the vast majority of the time "extreme" means that it contains a substantial dose of harsh vocals. You have bands that are mostly straight power metal, but because of the vocals they get classified as melodic death metal, and other bands that write songs that instrumentally would be called technical death metal, but because the vocals aren't harsh they end up as progressive or power metal.


gimme this shit already, i wanna hear it


https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Brimstone/747

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blackmantram
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:22 pm 
 

Lord_Of_Diamonds wrote:
pickup wrote:
And genres that are mostly image-related/lyrical theme-related and not music-related tend to get changed.


And that makes me think, how nice would to have a way to add tags based on certain features that are not directly related to the band's music and can't be addressed in the lyrics either.
ie. Gargoyle and Versailles play completely different musical styles but they can be both tagged as "visual kei".

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narsilianshard
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:57 pm 
 

I've found myself pretty unhappy with the extremely loose definitions people use for Death/Doom. For me Death/Doom is the claustrophobic, heavy-as-hell, tempo-shift-on-a-dime style started by Disembowelment and Rippikoulu and re-popularized recently by Spectral Voice and Mortiferum. In my mind stark tempo changes are required for the sound, because without them it's just slow death metal, which I've started calling SlowDeath.

Death/Doom:
https://rippikoulu.bandcamp.com/track/kadonneet-jumalat
https://spectralvoice.bandcamp.com/track/peeled-veins

SlowDeath:
https://konvent666.bandcamp.com/track/puritan-masochism
https://listen.20buckspin.com/track/the-watcher

Essentially, you need (slow) pieces of the song that are Doom and (fast) pieces of the song that are Death in order to be Death/Doom. Being influenced by doom or just playing slower death metal doesn't make you a Death/Doom band. It's similar to the difference between Black/Death and Blackened Death. Maybe it's just a language deficiency because Deathened Doom or Doomed Death sounds weird.

And of course, this all very different than what Death/Doom was according to the Peaceville Three in the 90s, but anyone who still calls those gothic metal records Death/Doom is Dead/Wrong.

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funeralravens
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:08 am 
 

narsilianshard wrote:
And of course, this all very different than what Death/Doom was according to the Peaceville Three in the 90s, but anyone who still calls those gothic metal records Death/Doom is Dead/Wrong.

Well, if you can't hear death and doom in their sound, you should try harder. And you probably don't know what gothic metal is.

Honestly you come across as an elitist. It's like if I said that only Ildjarn is true black metal, while bands like Emperor are "gothic metal".

Albums like "Lost Paradise", "Gothic" or "As the Flower Withers" are definitely doom/death to me and most listeners.

According to this interview disembowelment were influenced by Paradise Lost anyway. You have to accept that "Peaceville Three" were the start of real doom/death.

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narsilianshard
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:17 pm 
 

Right, because doom/death is different than death/doom so we're pretty much in agreement there. I'm just saying that calling both Paradise Lost and Spectral Voice death/doom makes no sense, because their sounds are worlds apart.

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funeralravens
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:26 pm 
 

narsilianshard wrote:
Right, because doom/death is different than death/doom so we're pretty much in agreement there. I'm just saying that calling both Paradise Lost and Spectral Voice death/doom makes no sense, because their sounds are worlds apart.

If it's just about the proportion of doom vs death, then I agree that say Disembowelment is way more death metal influenced than My Dying Bride. But early Paradise Lost for example are often closer to death than to doom and not that different from disembowelment (haven't heard Spectral Voice).

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tomcat_ha
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:31 am 
 

Distinguishing between doom/death and death/doom is pointless and silly. A band can literally play straight candlemass riffs but just tremolo pick em(Asphyx) and people it slow death or whatever. Doom and death metal are so close to each other in many ways that while a part of a riff might appear to be straight death metal but might actually be only 1 step removed from being doom. A good example of this is Into the Grave by Grave and put that next to Black Sabbaths title song.

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narsilianshard
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:32 am 
 

I get that it's nitpicky, but specifying doom/death vs death/doom is way easier than saying "death-influenced doom" or "doom-influenced death". To say that all of these bands fall into the exact same subgenre feels like an insane oversimplification, but I guess if it works for you then that's cool. I spend a ton of time listening to this stuff so it just makes sense to me to break these off into their own groupings.

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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:31 pm 
 

Adding tags like "melodic" or "gothic" seems to help distinguish scenes, because there is definitely a significant difference in feeling between some of these bands. Daylight Dies and Swallow the Sun fit the former, Raving Season and When Nothing Remains the latter, and there is certainly a distinct vibe compared to death metal bands that have some doomier parts like Autopsy or Dead Congregation, or full-on death/doom like Hooded Menace or Urza. Not to mention the other variants from stoner, sludge and others.

vindfukk wrote:
LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
I think the vast majority of the time "extreme" means that it contains a substantial dose of harsh vocals. You have bands that are mostly straight power metal, but because of the vocals they get classified as melodic death metal, and other bands that write songs that instrumentally would be called technical death metal, but because the vocals aren't harsh they end up as progressive or power metal.


gimme this shit already, i wanna hear it


I haven't peeked back into this thread for months, but if you're still around, by the former I mainly mean the scene centered around Children of Bodom, with different variations from Norther, Kalmah, Skyfire, Wintersun, Eternal Tears of Sorrow and such. By the latter I mean artists like Desultor, Spiral Architect, and Sleep Terror (early material is instrumental).

Lord_Of_Diamonds wrote:
I mean, of course there are genres that this site doesn't recognize. There are genres that the site considers to not be distinct enough to be classified as different genres. Like, alternative metal, although it's a rare term in the band genre field, gets changed to alternative rock because all "alternative metal' is is just heavy alternative rock.


Yeah, that's one that sounds so monumentally different that just calling it all "rock" feels disingenuous. Having System of a Down and Sevendust as the same genre as R.E.M. and the Pixies feels fundamentally wrong.

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Opus
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:47 pm 
 

How about just calling it "alternative music". It's not very alternative if it's still metal.
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