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EvergreenSherbert
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:48 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 3:39 pm 
 

I got a question that's been bugging me for a while. Why is (old) Opeth referred to as death metal? Even for early albums like Orchid, I've always thought of their music as progressive metal.
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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:11 pm 
 

It's a hybrid of death metal and progressive metal (plus doom metal, black metal, folk music, a bit of melodeath, etc.) I wouldn't call it death metal without affixing "progressive" to it, but their earlier albums especially have a lot of growls, and some death metal riffs here and there (Mike is a big Morbid Angel fan in particular, and it sometimes shows).

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TheUnhinged
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:28 pm
Posts: 417
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:03 am 
 

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
EvergreenSherbert wrote:
I got a question that's been bugging me for a while. Why is (old) Opeth referred to as death metal? Even for early albums like Orchid, I've always thought of their music as progressive metal.

It's a hybrid of death metal and progressive metal (plus doom metal, black metal, folk music, a bit of melodeath, etc.) I wouldn't call it death metal without affixing "progressive" to it, but their earlier albums especially have a lot of growls, and some death metal riffs here and there (Mike is a big Morbid Angel fan in particular, and it sometimes shows).



Right on the money. It's original descriptor 'extreme progressive metal' wasn't exactly wrong as the band did pull from a decent bit of varying influences, but I would say that a lot of the riff-work and vocals of the early albums bore striking resemblance to some of the death/doom and melodeath that was becoming prevalent at the time.
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EvergreenSherbert wrote:
I like the idea of a bunch of dudes recording a funeral doom album among the penguins.


I actually heard their albums are just field recordings of penguin colonies slowed down 99%

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~Guest 334273
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:34 am 
 

I'd go as far as saying that their first two albums could be classified as progressive melodic black metal, but i know i'm going to die on that hill alone :lol:

There are some death metal elements (the MA influence is there for sure) but those would become far more accentuated from Still Life onwards: From that point on prog death is perfect to describe their music.
Their earlier efforts remind me more of bands like their contemporaries Thy Serpent, but more complex, with more outside influences and with not-so-brutal growls that could either be at home on a death or a black metal album... i know that i'm totally splitting hairs here, Opeth was a unique band from the very beginning :lol:

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Nocturnal_Evil
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:00 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 5:06 pm 
 

Are black gaze and post-black metal the same thing? If not, what are the differences between them?
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Auch
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 2:12 pm 
 

It’s basically what they’re drawing more outside influence from, either post-rock/metal or shoegaze. But many bands grab influence from both of those genres so it can get a little hair-splitting.

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LongHairIsSoFuckingCool
Edgy Metal Noob Catchphrase Dispenser

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:22 am
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 2:03 am 
 

Is "trap metal" a real thing or just zoomer mallcore?
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MutantClannfear
Blank Czech

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 1:03 pm 
 

LongHairIsSoFuckingCool wrote:
Is "trap metal" a real thing or just zoomer mallcore?

As far as I understand, it's a real thing, but it doesn't really have anything to do with metal, nor does it claim to. It's basically trap music but with more distortion and aggression - it doesn't even necessarily have guitars. This page has a good description.
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LongHairIsSoFuckingCool
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 3:29 pm 
 

Sigh

Yet another fake "metal" genre.
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recyclage wrote:
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MutantClannfear
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 12:31 pm 
 

Oh no, the genre has the word "metal" in it but it's not actually metal! The horror! The AUDACITY!
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Hexenmacht46290
Has a GED in Gamercide

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:10 pm 
 

If it’s not metal, then it shouldn’t be called metal. This is pretty reasonable.

Nu metal’s name makes sense. Some of those bands actually are metal.
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Lane
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Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 11:54 am
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2022 6:51 pm 
 

I want some gnu metal!
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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2022 7:01 pm 
 

It's not quite as good as newt metal.

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Auch
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Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:40 pm
Posts: 589
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:41 pm 
 

MutantClannfear wrote:
LongHairIsSoFuckingCool wrote:
Is "trap metal" a real thing or just zoomer mallcore?

As far as I understand, it's a real thing, but it doesn't really have anything to do with metal, nor does it claim to. It's basically trap music but with more distortion and aggression - it doesn't even necessarily have guitars. This page has a good description.


Yeah it makes more sense that it’s hardcore trap or industrial trap. But it was probably called “trap metal” by someone who doesn’t know hardcore or industrial so just uses metal as a synonym for aggressive music. And no one is actually going to say “metallic trap” so it became “trap metal.”

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EvergreenSherbert
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Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:48 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 6:10 pm 
 

Neofolk has me confused. Two things:

1. I've read that it's related to industrial music. What does that mean? The only neofolk I've heard is gentle acoustic guitar music, I don't know how that could be related to anything "industrial".

2. What is martial? I've seen the term used with neofolk. For example, there's the "Neofolk & Martial help thread" over in Recommendation Central.
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~Guest 334273
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 12:31 am 
 

EvergreenSherbert wrote:
Neofolk has me confused. Two things:

1. I've read that it's related to industrial music. What does that mean? The only neofolk I've heard is gentle acoustic guitar music, I don't know how that could be related to anything "industrial".

2. What is martial? I've seen the term used with neofolk. For example, there's the "Neofolk & Martial help thread" over in Recommendation Central.


The original Neofolk bands like Current 93 and Death in June were influenced by early industrial bands like Throbbing Gristle and Einstürzende Neubaten and overall kept close ties with the scene (see bands like Nurse With a Wound)

Martial refers to Martial Industrial, a subgenre derived from industrial music, neoclassical darkwave and neofolk. It’s quite an umbrella term because i’ve seen it applied to bands like Puissance, Der Blutharsch, Von Thronstahl, Parzival... The common elements are usually marching rhythms, samples and obsession with war, uniforms and sketchy political ideas (Evola and friends)

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EvergreenSherbert
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:48 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:02 pm 
 

Explain bestial black metal. Is it its own thing, or just a synonym for war metal?
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tomcat_ha
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Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:07 pm 
 

its both, the term arose before everybody started calling it war metal but some people still prefer that term for the more black metal side of war metal.

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LongHairIsSoFuckingCool
Edgy Metal Noob Catchphrase Dispenser

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:22 am
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:32 am 
 

How is "progressive groove" a thing? Isn't groove defined by very simple, radio friendly riffs?
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~Guest 334273
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:23 am 
 

LongHairIsSoFuckingCool wrote:
How is "progressive groove" a thing? Isn't groove defined by very simple, radio friendly riffs?


imagine riffs like the ones that start from 5:40 of this song: groovy, catchy but not really intuitive and a bitch to play

Spoiler: show

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AJManiac666
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:18 pm
Posts: 125
Location: Costa Rica
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:45 am 
 

Is "Blues Rock" metal or it's the root of metal?

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tomcat_ha
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:51 pm 
 

blues rock is one of the genres out of which metal grew but its not metal itself.

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LongHairIsSoFuckingCool
Edgy Metal Noob Catchphrase Dispenser

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 547
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:46 pm 
 

I always thought it was weird that the first metal bands took influence from prog in regards to lyrical themes though! :-P
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recyclage wrote:
When a labeling of music gets stucked in the past, than germans are still nazi

recyclage wrote:
Anyone who writes "The Deftones" isn't trustworthy.

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LongHairIsSoFuckingCool
Edgy Metal Noob Catchphrase Dispenser

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 547
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:49 am 
 

What does "pop metal" mean? I see used as a synonym for glam, but I've also seen Amaranthe described as such on here.
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recyclage wrote:
When a labeling of music gets stucked in the past, than germans are still nazi

recyclage wrote:
Anyone who writes "The Deftones" isn't trustworthy.

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Kalimata
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:29 am
Posts: 525
Location: France
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 5:15 pm 
 

LeMiserable wrote:
Why are Schizophrenia/BtR/Arise called Death Metal albums? I can't help but hear mainly Thrash Metal in them? :ugh:


Because in late 1980's, death metal was emerging, not well defined and still deeply rooted in the thrash metal genre. Because of the more growled voice and the heavier sound, some started to call these albums. death metal. But when death metal evolved and departed from thrash, those albums came to be called thrash/death or simply thrash. I remember that around 1993-1994, they were still mainly called thrash/death, especially Schizophrenia and Beneath the remains while Arise was considered a straighter move towards pure thrash. Some reviews even noted there were still traces of death metal in Chaos AD.
As for Schizophrenia, Beneath the remains and to a lesser extent Arise, that's why a bunch of old school metalheads still classify them death metal anyway!

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Kalimata
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Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:29 am
Posts: 525
Location: France
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 12:29 pm 
 

LongHairIsSoFuckingCool wrote:
What does "pop metal" mean? I see used as a synonym for glam, but I've also seen Amaranthe described as such on here.


The term "pop" is something difficult to define. Is it a genre? A descriptor? A way of producing music? I mean is there something musically common between The Beatles and Rihanna?
In the 1960's, pop was something more defined, a subgenre showing the more commercial, produced and melodic side of rock. But it has few things in common with what is called pop today, because pop isn't necessarily related to rock anymore. And even if you listen to 1960's-70's bands, it may be hard to distinguish what is rock and what is pop...

So as "pop" itself seems to be a vague term, I'm not sure "pop metal" could be an accurate subgenre or descriptor. It may describe a metal song with neat arrangements and catchy melodies and chorus? Or a pop song with heavy guitars? One should have to define what is pop first.

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Son of Nun
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Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 3:48 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2022 4:18 am 
 

What (sub)genre is Amorphis - Tales From the Thousand Lakes? Is it Death/Doom, Melodic Death Metal, or something else (if you had to place it in one established category? MA has "Progressive/Death/Doom" and RYM has "Melodic Death Metal."

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Kalimata
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Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:29 am
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Location: France
PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 10:01 am 
 

AJManiac666 wrote:
Is "Blues Rock" metal or it's the root of metal?


Is this question an attempt at trolling or a serious one?

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Tulcakelume
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:09 pm
Posts: 112
PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 10:38 am 
 

Kalimata wrote:
AJManiac666 wrote:
Is "Blues Rock" metal or it's the root of metal?


Is this question an attempt at trolling or a serious one?

Is this the real life or is this just fantasy?

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Son of Nun
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Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 3:48 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 4:01 pm 
 

Son of Nun wrote:
What (sub)genre is Amorphis - Tales From the Thousand Lakes? Is it Death/Doom, Melodic Death Metal, or something else (if you had to place it in one established category? MA has "Progressive/Death/Doom" and RYM has "Melodic Death Metal."


I'm glad no one else knows either.

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interstellar_medium
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Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:41 am
Posts: 926
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 6:43 pm 
 

Son of Nun wrote:
Son of Nun wrote:
What (sub)genre is Amorphis - Tales From the Thousand Lakes? Is it Death/Doom, Melodic Death Metal, or something else (if you had to place it in one established category? MA has "Progressive/Death/Doom" and RYM has "Melodic Death Metal."


I'm glad no one else knows either.


It's been a subject of one too many a flamewar :) Same as basically trying to define the genre of any of their records. A prophetic name, theirs.

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Son of Nun
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:00 am 
 

interstellar_medium wrote:
Son of Nun wrote:
Son of Nun wrote:
What (sub)genre is Amorphis - Tales From the Thousand Lakes? Is it Death/Doom, Melodic Death Metal, or something else (if you had to place it in one established category? MA has "Progressive/Death/Doom" and RYM has "Melodic Death Metal."


I'm glad no one else knows either.


It's been a subject of one too many a flamewar :) Same as basically trying to define the genre of any of their records. A prophetic name, theirs.


Good point. I don't really care enough to debate it with anyone. I was mostly interested in seeing if there was a general consensus for the purposes of making lists of my top albums by (sub)genre, etc.

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Tulcakelume
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:09 pm
Posts: 112
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 5:07 am 
 

Son of Nun wrote:
What (sub)genre is Amorphis - Tales From the Thousand Lakes? Is it Death/Doom, Melodic Death Metal, or something else (if you had to place it in one established category? MA has "Progressive/Death/Doom" and RYM has "Melodic Death Metal."

If you want to be pedantic, you can go for "Progressive/Melodic Death/Doom Metal with Folk influences". That's quite a mouthful, so you're better off making your own categorization. It's all subjective in the end, right?

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Son of Nun
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 3:48 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 8:44 pm 
 

Tulcakelume wrote:
Son of Nun wrote:
What (sub)genre is Amorphis - Tales From the Thousand Lakes? Is it Death/Doom, Melodic Death Metal, or something else (if you had to place it in one established category? MA has "Progressive/Death/Doom" and RYM has "Melodic Death Metal."

If you want to be pedantic, you can go for "Progressive/Melodic Death/Doom Metal with Folk influences". That's quite a mouthful, so you're better off making your own categorization. It's all subjective in the end, right?


I don't. I lean towards Death/Doom. I was just wondering where others stand.

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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:36 pm 
 

What genre is Opeth's Morningrise? Celtic Frost's Monotheist? Devin Townsend's Empath? Ram-Zet's Escape? Mr. Bungle's self-titled? Some bands just have too many different influences going on for any one particular label to properly capture what they do.

LongHairIsSoFuckingCool wrote:
What does "pop metal" mean? I see used as a synonym for glam, but I've also seen Amaranthe described as such on here.


As far as I can tell it's just a pejorative people use for accessible metal they don't like. It's pretty nebulous, so it could mean it's too catchy, too many clean vocals, too soft, too generically-structured, just too mainstream and possibly radio-friendly. I like metal, I like pop, and I like combinations of the two, but when I see it employed it's usually an attempted killshot to deride it by people who are metal purists.

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LongHairIsSoFuckingCool
Edgy Metal Noob Catchphrase Dispenser

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 547
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:53 pm 
 

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
As far as I can tell it's just a pejorative people use for accessible metal they don't like. It's pretty nebulous, so it could mean it's too catchy, too many clean vocals, too soft, too generically-structured, just too mainstream and possibly radio-friendly. I like metal, I like pop, and I like combinations of the two, but when I see it employed it's usually an attempted killshot to deride it by people who are metal purists.

What combinations of pop and metal would you personally recommend?
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When a labeling of music gets stucked in the past, than germans are still nazi

recyclage wrote:
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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 12:48 am 
 

In varying degrees of poppiness and from various subgenres, stuff like Deadlock, Delain, Within Temptation, Solution .45, Ad Infinitum, Celldweller, TesseracT, Skyharbor, Spiritbox, Sybreed, Soilwork, Scar Symmetry, Engel, Anubis Gate, to name a few.

I think the term started in the 80s to differentiate trad and thrash from glam metal, but it's stuck around to be used against any successive fusions as well.

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interstellar_medium
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:41 am
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Location: Russia
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 3:22 pm 
 

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
As far as I can tell it's just a pejorative people use for accessible metal they don't like.


I use it for metal I like, too :) And wider than just metal with outright pop influences.

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narsilianshard
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:17 pm 
 

The term "Pagan Death Metal" has started appearing recently: https://www.metal-archives.com/search/a ... ame=#bands

Unsurprisingly, all the bands sound like Amon Amarth clones. It's really silly and it's pretty clear this is not an actual genre.
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Megatokyo
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2022 2:58 pm 
 

EvergreenSherbert wrote:
Explain bestial black metal. Is it its own thing, or just a synonym for war metal?

From what I can tell it's the same thing. I think war metal sounds cooler though.
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