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Karnarium
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:09 pm
Posts: 49
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:50 pm 
 

I have been given an album called Woe of Tyrants - Kingdom of Might. Obviously a Progressive Metalcore/Deathcore band (to me........). On Metal-Archives it's labeled Death/Thrash. On RYM they label it Melodic Death Metal & Technical Death Metal. Anyone have time, check it out and proove me right, pleeeease
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MetallicaMegadethIronMaiden
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:35 pm
Posts: 16
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:24 pm 
 

This might sound stupid, but what is the difference between black metal and extreme metal? I know both originate in Norway (don't they all) and both have similar lyrical ideas. I really don't listen to either because I try to stay away from, er, shall I say, glorification of Satanism. :???:

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TheUnhinged
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:28 pm
Posts: 293
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:38 pm 
 

MetallicaMegadethIronMaiden wrote:
This might sound stupid, but what is the difference between black metal and extreme metal? I know both originate in Norway (don't they all) and both have similar lyrical ideas. I really don't listen to either because I try to stay away from, er, shall I say, glorification of Satanism. :???:


Extreme metal is really just a blanket term to cover black, thrash, and death bands rather than an actual defined sub-genre. In terms of it being used as a descriptor (aka "extreme gothic metal" or "extreme progressive metal"), it's essentially just saying that the band utilizes elements borrowed from black/death/thrash metal (faster tempos, harsh vocals, etc).

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Gameofmetal
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:57 pm
Posts: 15
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:08 am 
 

You can use it to blanket more than that even, basically I think of it as covering anything beyond trad, power, mostly the clean singing based kinds of metal.

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thrasher_jtd
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:02 am
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:16 am 
 

Any opinions on TANK metal?

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Opus
Veteran

Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:06 am
Posts: 3037
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:35 pm 
 

Is that supposed to be an acronym?
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Kalimata
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:29 am
Posts: 131
Location: France
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:08 am 
 

thrasher_jtd wrote:
Any opinions on TANK metal?


A more compact and metallic subgenre of war metal?
Just trolling as you do!
Seriously... tank metal...

Just take any object you see around you or think of and add metal. You get so many subgenres.

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Kalimata
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:29 am
Posts: 131
Location: France
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:21 am 
 

MetallicaMegadethIronMaiden wrote:
This might sound stupid, but what is the difference between black metal and extreme metal? I know both originate in Norway (don't they all) and both have similar lyrical ideas. I really don't listen to either because I try to stay away from, er, shall I say, glorification of Satanism. :???:


As some said, extreme metal is not a subgenre but a general term to describe everything that is more extreme than traditional metal. As such, black metal is one subgenre which falls under extreme metal, just like thrash, death metal and others...
Lyrical matters don't make a subgenre, even less "glorification of satanism" which is not even exclusive within the black metal movement, and not exclusive to black metal.

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MetallicaMegadethIronMaiden
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:35 pm
Posts: 16
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:53 pm 
 

Is Drone Metal a real genre? I've heard that it's like a minimalist doom metal genre where only like 3 or 4 power chords are used throughout a whole song and the guitars have hella distortion and are tuned down often and songs have ultra slow tempo. Would you classify Sleep as drone metal?

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MetallicaMegadethIronMaiden
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:35 pm
Posts: 16
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:02 pm 
 

Kalimata wrote:
As some said, extreme metal is not a subgenre but a general term to describe everything that is more extreme than traditional metal. As such, black metal is one subgenre which falls under extreme metal, just like thrash, death metal and others...
Lyrical matters don't make a subgenre, even less "glorification of satanism" which is not even exclusive within the black metal movement, and not exclusive to black metal.


I thought lyrical matters do make up a genre, or stereotype one, like I can't name a black metal band that doesn't wear face paint and sing about Satanic themes and misanthropy and has a pentagram as their symbol (that's an overtstatement) like Mayhem, Rotting Christ and the like.

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interstellar_medium
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:41 am
Posts: 124
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:36 pm 
 

MetallicaMegadethIronMaiden wrote:
I can't name a black metal band that doesn't wear face paint and sing about Satanic themes and misanthropy and has a pentagram as their symbol


Ajattara - no face paint, no pentagrams in the logo, though a good load of misanthropy and "Satanic" symbolism (not the literal "devil worshipping" stuff, the mastermind is an atheist) in the lyrics. The lyrics are in Finnish anyway, though.

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Kalimata
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:29 am
Posts: 131
Location: France
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:44 pm 
 

MetallicaMegadethIronMaiden wrote:
Kalimata wrote:
As some said, extreme metal is not a subgenre but a general term to describe everything that is more extreme than traditional metal. As such, black metal is one subgenre which falls under extreme metal, just like thrash, death metal and others...
Lyrical matters don't make a subgenre, even less "glorification of satanism" which is not even exclusive within the black metal movement, and not exclusive to black metal.


I thought lyrical matters do make up a genre, or stereotype one, like I can't name a black metal band that doesn't wear face paint and sing about Satanic themes and misanthropy and has a pentagram as their symbol (that's an overtstatement) like Mayhem, Rotting Christ and the like.


No, lyrical matters don't make a genre. Enough has been said about that... One could say it gives a colour to a genre, but it doesn't make it. If a band makes a cover of Bob Marley about smoking weed which is musically pure black metal, this doesn't make it reaggae-weed black metal. It's just a black metal cover of Bob Marley dealing about weed...
Many black metal bands, even among the Norwegian pioneers, do not deal with satanic themes (to name a few, winter landscapes, mysticism, paganism, nature, mythology, nationalism, science-fiction, human nature...). And I can find hundreds of black metal bands not using pentagram as a symbol. On the contrary, plenty of bands don't play black metal, have satanic lyrics and do use pentagrams as a symbol.

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TheUnhinged
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:28 pm
Posts: 293
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:34 pm 
 

MetallicaMegadethIronMaiden wrote:
Is Drone Metal a real genre? I've heard that it's like a minimalist doom metal genre where only like 3 or 4 power chords are used throughout a whole song and the guitars have hella distortion and are tuned down often and songs have ultra slow tempo. Would you classify Sleep as drone metal?


Sleep definitely have major drone influences on their Jerusalem and Dopesmoker albums, but Earth, Boris, and Sunn O))) are really the household names when it comes to drone metal. Drone music was already its own thing; it was solely a style of instruments holding out sustained notes and repetitions for extended periods for the sake of creating a minimalist, hypnotic, or trance-like ambiance. Drone metal essentially just took this approach and made it heavy, with extremely down-tuned guitars and massive amps to give it a huge, all-encompassing sound. It's pretty common for stoner/doom bands like Sleep, Bongripper, Conan, etc to utilize lengthy drone metal passages, though they still have a good bit more going on in the mix as the aforementioned bands I listed, who will use little to no drumming and focus essentially on repeating one long-drawn out riff for the course of a full track.

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Auch
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:40 pm
Posts: 370
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:51 pm 
 

MetallicaMegadethIronMaiden wrote:
Kalimata wrote:
As some said, extreme metal is not a subgenre but a general term to describe everything that is more extreme than traditional metal. As such, black metal is one subgenre which falls under extreme metal, just like thrash, death metal and others...
Lyrical matters don't make a subgenre, even less "glorification of satanism" which is not even exclusive within the black metal movement, and not exclusive to black metal.


I thought lyrical matters do make up a genre, or stereotype one, like I can't name a black metal band that doesn't wear face paint and sing about Satanic themes and misanthropy and has a pentagram as their symbol (that's an overtstatement) like Mayhem, Rotting Christ and the like.


You need to listen to a lot more black metal then.

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Kalimata
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:29 am
Posts: 131
Location: France
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:50 pm 
 

Auch wrote:
MetallicaMegadethIronMaiden wrote:
Kalimata wrote:
As some said, extreme metal is not a subgenre but a general term to describe everything that is more extreme than traditional metal. As such, black metal is one subgenre which falls under extreme metal, just like thrash, death metal and others...
Lyrical matters don't make a subgenre, even less "glorification of satanism" which is not even exclusive within the black metal movement, and not exclusive to black metal.


I thought lyrical matters do make up a genre, or stereotype one, like I can't name a black metal band that doesn't wear face paint and sing about Satanic themes and misanthropy and has a pentagram as their symbol (that's an overtstatement) like Mayhem, Rotting Christ and the like.


You need to listen to a lot more black metal then.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Cudnoredje
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat May 20, 2017 10:33 am
Posts: 50
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:53 pm 
 

haloween core? (Dance Club Massacre)

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Kalimata
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:29 am
Posts: 131
Location: France
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:36 pm 
 

According to their lyrical topics, they would be more sexuality/humor/sarcasm/alcohol crossover, which may be a subgenre of halloween core, indeed.

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DexRezz
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:13 pm
Posts: 1
Location: Peru
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:10 pm 
 

Anyone forgot about "Hollywood Metal"? Was an invention from Rhapsody.

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NECRONAUT
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:48 pm
Posts: 117
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:03 am 
 

TheUnhinged wrote:
MetallicaMegadethIronMaiden wrote:
Is Drone Metal a real genre? I've heard that it's like a minimalist doom metal genre where only like 3 or 4 power chords are used throughout a whole song and the guitars have hella distortion and are tuned down often and songs have ultra slow tempo. Would you classify Sleep as drone metal?


Sleep definitely have major drone influences on their Jerusalem and Dopesmoker albums, but Earth, Boris, and Sunn O))) are really the household names when it comes to drone metal. Drone music was already its own thing; it was solely a style of instruments holding out sustained notes and repetitions for extended periods for the sake of creating a minimalist, hypnotic, or trance-like ambiance. Drone metal essentially just took this approach and made it heavy, with extremely down-tuned guitars and massive amps to give it a huge, all-encompassing sound. It's pretty common for stoner/doom bands like Sleep, Bongripper, Conan, etc to utilize lengthy drone metal passages, though they still have a good bit more going on in the mix as the aforementioned bands I listed, who will use little to no drumming and focus essentially on repeating one long-drawn out riff for the course of a full track.[Quote]

Drone already finds it's origin in the early seventies. Some project hold records like playing experimental non-stop drone sounds for weeks in a row. La Monte Young and Marian Zazeela are good examples. La Monte Young already made an drone record in 1969.
Lou Reed actually is one of the first really known drone artists, also a pioneer in Industrial/power electronic music. Lou Reed's "Metal Machine Music" already is an album from 1975! Even to extreme for most 'metal heads' nowadays.
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HOT_DOG_DAY_89
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 11:52 am
Posts: 157
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:38 am 
 

DexRezz wrote:
Anyone forgot about "Hollywood Metal"? Was an invention from Rhapsody.


Think they changed it to cinematic metal later.

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MetallicaMegadethIronMaiden
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:35 pm
Posts: 16
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:56 pm 
 

Is this a genre?: Symphonic Black Metal but with non-screeched and growled lyrics
Thanks :)

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Opus
Veteran

Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:06 am
Posts: 3037
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:19 pm 
 

No. That would be corset metal.
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Kommanderhooyah
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:56 pm
Posts: 120
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:30 pm 
 

It is still symphonic black metal regardless of the vocals if it is instrumentally symphonic black metal. Purely instrumental symphonic black metal exists, which by definition would have no harsh vocals.
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Kalimata
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:29 am
Posts: 131
Location: France
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:49 am 
 

This thread has definitely become nonsensical.

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blackmantram
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:51 pm
Posts: 773
Location: Colombia
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 4:55 pm 
 

Hey! MetallicaMegadethIronMaiden is myself 20 years ago!!!

Everytime I listen to A forest of stars I'm more convinced it's just plain wrong to tag them as simply "Psychedelic Black Metal". I know they have some psychedelic rock influences but it's far from being the basis of their sound, perhaps avant-garde or even progressive would suit them better. Either that or I have no idea what "Psychedelic Black Metal" is supposed to be.

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tomcat_ha
Minister of Boiling Water

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
Posts: 5013
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 2:31 pm 
 

they are indeed a pretty unique band. They are to me gothic in a way like the gothic novels were but not gothic like the gothic metal/rock etc bands we know.

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Undynethedead
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:58 pm
Posts: 7
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2020 4:01 pm 
 

does doom metal count as "extreme metal"? I've heard varying opinions on the matter, but I'd only really count hybrid subgenres (death/doom, blackened doom, funeral, gothic, drone)

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interstellar_medium
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:41 am
Posts: 124
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2020 6:26 pm 
 

Oldschool "epic doom" probably not. I can imagine a classic rock fan enjoying Solitude Aeturnus but not Shape of Despair. Might be due to the vocals - can there exist extreme metal with cleans only?

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LithoJazzoSphere
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:11 pm
Posts: 352
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2020 6:37 pm 
 

I think the vast majority of the time "extreme" means that it contains a substantial dose of harsh vocals. You have bands that are mostly straight power metal, but because of the vocals they get classified as melodic death metal, and other bands that write songs that instrumentally would be called technical death metal, but because the vocals aren't harsh they end up as progressive or power metal.

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interstellar_medium
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:41 am
Posts: 124
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2020 6:45 pm 
 

Yeah, makes sense. I totally hear the instrumental parts of Nightmare (the Magali Luyten record) and Unleash the Archers (specifically Apex) to be very much melodeath, but everyone says it's power metal, so I kinda concur.
On the other hand, early Aephanemer is IMO not just power, but flower instrumentally, yet they are generally believed to be melodeath - apparently due to harsh vocals.

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blackmantram
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:51 pm
Posts: 773
Location: Colombia
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 12:04 am 
 

interstellar_medium wrote:
can there exist extreme metal with cleans only?


Yes, although is not very common:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y13UcAPPHXw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0YMTc05vFg

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LithoJazzoSphere
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:11 pm
Posts: 352
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 1:42 pm 
 

blackmantram wrote:
interstellar_medium wrote:
can there exist extreme metal with cleans only?


Yes, although is not very common:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y13UcAPPHXw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0YMTc05vFg


There are definitely some harsh vocals in that first example.

In a similar vein Desultor is a band that is essentially tech death with clean vocals, without much that's truly harsh, but they get a little rough in a shouty thrash screaming sense at times.

Spoiler: show


And then you have instrumental death metal songs like this one.

Spoiler: show


Or instrumental tech/progressive metal.

Spoiler: show

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tomcat_ha
Minister of Boiling Water

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
Posts: 5013
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 3:59 pm 
 

there is some black metal with mostly clean vocals too

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blackmantram
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:51 pm
Posts: 773
Location: Colombia
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 1:06 pm 
 

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
blackmantram wrote:
interstellar_medium wrote:
can there exist extreme metal with cleans only?


Yes, although is not very common:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y13UcAPPHXw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0YMTc05vFg


There are definitely some harsh vocals in that first example.



Yeah, like 10 secs in total. Still a valid example as the "extreme" characteristic is conveyed through the music, not the vocals, also there are other tracks on the same album (and other albums of the same band as well) with all clean vocals. If you're not familiar with the band they are better known for their 80's debut release regarded by many as one the most "extreme" traditional heavy metal albums at the time.

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