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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:40 pm 
 

I find these mad metal solos really entertaining. I don't mean super-advanced technical playing, adding Bach licks to songs or anything like that...I mean the wailing, keening, diving, tearing sounds pulled off by some metal guitarists who sound like they're utterly possessed as they make you wonder "what the hell is he doing to that poor guitar???!"

So I want to hear about examples from people of players who do weird and interesting things with their solos. While I'm not really looking for superior technique as such, I would certainly welcome the mention of advanced musicians who have a spark of madness and a bizarre approach to note choices or shredding. Since it's specifically a kind of unhinged wildness I'm looking for, I expect most cnotributions will belong to death or thrash metal, but other genres are of course fine too if you think the player fits the bill. Perhaps some analysis from guitarists who understand the instrument a little better than I do would also be warranted, since although I have some knowledge of theory my guitar expertise is basically nil.

So obviously I'm looking at guys like Trey Azagtoth as my model here. This guy just flies off into space with his solos, using all sorts of effects, wah, unexpected flurries of tapping, and probably some weird picking techniques as well. I think even the Hoffman brothers fit here...I know a lot of people dislike early Deicide solos but for some reason I've always really enjoyed them. I particularly love it when Eric makes that descending noise with the guitar that sounds like an artillery shell or something falling through the air. Sometimes they even add an echo effect to it to make it sound particularly demented.

Patrick Mamelli's leads on Pestilence's debut sound particularly insane to me. I have no idea what techniques he is using but he seems to be sliding all over the fretboard. The thing that sets his solos apart from other mad death/thrash lead players though is that you can hear every note very distinctly and precisely. I don't think he uses a lot of effects (though he certainly would later) and it sounds like a lot of it is running up and down scales really fast, but there's just unexpected bits of melody flying around in there that are intriguing to listen to. A part of it might be that the lead tone is magnificent, too.

The fellow who plays lead guitar in the Pervuian band Mortem obviously owes a lot to Trey, too, but he has his own, very memorable brand of insane death metal soloing that's always a joy to hear. Especially songs from the last couple of Mortem albums are just packed full of wild lead guitar acrobatics.
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AndySlayer
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Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:57 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:58 pm 
 

I figure you're probably familiar with Nocturnus being that you seem to be a big fan of Trey. I always liked how their leads were always pretty technical and somewhat precise (at least for their time) and how live they always seem to have pulled them off pretty close to how they are on The Key. They tightened up their whole approach for the next record, solos and all, but those batshit insane early Nocturnus guitar acrobatics totally one-upped Slayer in that department if you ask me.

I always found Mille's leads on the early Kreator records to be unbelievably horrid. It's almost like he was way too chaotic and unskilled even for playing in that slayeresque chaotic lead style, if that makes any sense. Honestly, I never really understood why people would attempt playing something they obviously can't, there's always a better solution. Rick Rozz was, in a general sense, most definitely a shitty soloist, but he was decent at trem-bar wankery, which totally worked for Massacre. Why people don't settle for that or say slower, more soulful pentatonics if they're beginners instead of going for broke and failing miserably is beyond me. And those were just two examples of what every guitar player can do and still sound good, there's loads of cheap and easy tricks for lead guitar that never fail.

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IanThrash
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:00 pm 
 

Well, Kirk Hammett's leads on Kill 'em All are fucking awesome, so juvenile and agressive. Same with early Dave Mustaine and Gary Holt (note that mr Hunolt also kicked major asses) but for lesser known guitar players...


Spoiler: show


Mike Scaccia's lead guitar work on Rigor Mortis was really intense, non stop shreding, just as blood pumping as the riffs.


Spoiler: show


Also, Mike Davis leads on Nocturnus were both technically impressive and wild at the same time, just like Trey. I love how the riffs are incredibly tight an then those uncontroled, semi improvissed licks come out of nowhere to kick ass.
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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:02 pm 
 

AndySlayer wrote:
I figure you're probably familiar with Nocturnus being that you seem to be a big fan of Trey. I always liked how their leads were always pretty technical and somewhat precise (at least for their time) and how live they always seem to have pulled them off pretty close to how they are on The Key. They tightened up their whole approach for the next record, solos and all, but those batshit insane early Nocturnus guitar acrobatics totally one-upped Slayer in that department if you ask me.

Yeah, definitely fits the bill. Those solos on The Key are just flyign at you left and right all over the place in every song! Never could really tell the two guitarists apart though...I should listen more carefully as every player does usually have his own very distinctive style (Sherman and Denner, etc)...

Quote:

I always found Mille's leads on the early Kreator records to be unbelievably horrid. It's almost like he was way too chaotic and unskilled even for playing in that slayeresque chaotic lead style, if that makes any sense. Honestly, I never really understood why people would attempt playing something they obviously can't, there's always a better solution. Rick Rozz was, in a general sense, most definitely a shitty soloist, but he was decent at trem-bar wankery, which totally worked for Massacre. Why people don't settle for that or say slower, more soulful pentatonics if they're beginners instead of going for broke and failing miserably is beyond me. And those were just two examples of what every guitar player can do and still sound good, there's loads of cheap and easy tricks for lead guitar that never fail.


Agreed, although I think the solos on say Pleasure to Kill have a real charm in their "I'll just play every note I possibly can on the high end of the fretboard and as fast as possible" sort of way. I like them more than Tom G. Warrior's solos, for instance...now there's an example of a really crappy soloist who never advanced his technique in the slightest.
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colin040
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:30 pm 
 

Sentenced's North from here, anyone? ''We have to play in a metal band so we have to SHRED!'' was probably the mentality of the lead guitarist on that one. It's definitely charming, though and I feel that it suits that chaotic, riff-oriented madness of the album anyway.

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Jasper92
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:04 pm 
 

I think Immolation solo's are quite interesting. Those solo's on Dawn of Possession are crazy a-tonal solo's but they just seem so right for the music. I guess it's Robert Vigna playing those solo's?
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Eerie Inhabitant
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:06 pm 
 

Quote:
Patrick Mamelli's leads on Pestilence's debut sound particularly insane to me. I have no idea what techniques he is using but he seems to be sliding all over the fretboard. The thing that sets his solos apart from other mad death/thrash lead players though is that you can hear every note very distinctly and precisely



Patrick Mameli is mainly using a Jazz-Fusion kind of Soloing what really sets it apart from other players.

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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:09 pm 
 

Eerie Inhabitant wrote:
Quote:
Patrick Mamelli's leads on Pestilence's debut sound particularly insane to me. I have no idea what techniques he is using but he seems to be sliding all over the fretboard. The thing that sets his solos apart from other mad death/thrash lead players though is that you can hear every note very distinctly and precisely



Patrick Mameli is mainly using a Jazz-Fusion kind of Soloing what really sets it apart from other players.



Later on, yeah, there was definitely a heavy jazz influence, but I'm not so sure about back in the late 80s...
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TheDefiniteArticle
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:09 pm 
 

A lot of bestial BM stuff, when it uses solos, will use the wild and crazy approach over a short space of time. I agree with the OP, structured solos in metal irritate me, whichever instrument they're played on.

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IanThrash
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:39 pm 
 

I think that Mike Sifringer deserves to be noted, early Destruction had the most evilish and restless riffs and solos of Germany, he always had that neoclasical kinda approach combined with the rawness and power of their early demos and first album, incredible.


Quote:
I like them more than Tom G. Warrior's solos, for instance...now there's an example of a really crappy soloist who never advanced his technique in the slightest.



Agreed. But he totally makes up for it with his top notch riffing :-D
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Ilwhyan
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:47 pm 
 

This might be a somewhat unexpected source for OP, and maybe not entirely what you're looking for, but this song's second solo sounds like he's treating the whammy bar with no little violence. The massive delay effect might contribute to the effect, though. Other than that, it's a calm if slightly somber song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3W-WYO8k4M

If you get bored, link here to skip to the chase:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3W-WYO8k4M&t=4m45s
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Eerie Inhabitant
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:57 pm 
 

Quote:
Patrick Mamelli's leads on Pestilence's debut sound particularly insane to me. I have no idea what techniques he is using but he seems to be sliding all over the fretboard. The thing that sets his solos apart from other mad death/thrash lead players though is that you can hear every note very distinctly and precisely



Patrick Mameli is mainly using a Jazz-Fusion kind of Soloing what really sets it apart from other players.



Quote:
Later on, yeah, there was definitely a heavy jazz influence, but I'm not so sure about back in the late 80s...



Got a point there, i was more focussing on the later period in their carreer. If you like the style of Trey Azagthoth you should check out Leon Macey of the mighty 'Mithras'. His playing is heavily influenced by Trey (especially the solo's). Really spaced out notes come flying by and make you think you're in another galaxy.
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Diamhea
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:01 pm 
 

I always thought the main solo of Overkill's Horrorscope would fit this bill. Totally insane, in the music video he is like punching the guitar to get the weird distortion sounds but I'm not sure if that is really how he did it in studio. It starts at ~3:25.

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dragmire
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:26 pm 
 

The whole solo is worth listening to but the part at 4:18 in particular is insane. Not even sure how he's doing some of that.

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Tron_79
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:55 pm 
 

dragmire wrote:
The whole solo is worth listening to but the part at 4:18 in particular is insane. Not even sure how he's doing some of that.



I always found it was interesting that it wasn't Christian Muenzner who did this solo but Morean (vocalist from Dark Fortress) who did that solo..
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AndySlayer
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:38 pm 
 

Quote:
Agreed, although I think the solos on say Pleasure to Kill have a real charm in their "I'll just play every note I possibly can on the high end of the fretboard and as fast as possible" sort of way. I like them more than Tom G. Warrior's solos, for instance...now there's an example of a really crappy soloist who never advanced his technique in the slightest.


Funny, you brought up an example of a wild-ass soloist I enjoy a lot - Tom G. Warrior! He is definitely not a lead player but his constant abuse of wah and tapping adds a certain percussive quality to his soloing that I enjoy immensely. It's a lot harder to flub notes when you're tapping in contrast to picking, even more so if you've got some heavy-ass wah-wah going on. The lead on Dethroned Emperor, on the other hand, is quite structured, neatly short, performed decently and all around fucking awesome.

I also like Dark Angel's trade-offs a lot. They mastered the art of the thrash metal solo call and response on Darkness Descends.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:10 pm 
 

I kinda wanna vote for Brian Robertson's solo in Motorhead's 'Back at the Funny Farm'. He just goes totally crazy with the wah, delay and - most importantly - his own vibrato. It's one of my absolute favourite guitar solos. I mean, atonal Slayer-esque thrash solos are wild in a way we expect - so hearing a bluesy hard rock player go absolutely crazy is different.

PS, Tom G Warrior's soloing rules. Fuck you!
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Abominatrix
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:16 pm 
 

Hahaha....almost every Tom Warrior solo just sounds like "WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH WAROW WAROW WARRROOW WAAAAAAH!"
That 'Dethroned Emperor" solo is indeed a little different, and I agree that it's melodicism is quite appropriate.

Ian mentioned Kirk on Kill em All and that reminded me of another album full of wild solos that are favourites...Vulcano's Bloody Vengeance. Just listen to the "pentatonics on way too much coke" approach...the tone is even quite similar to Kirk's, I think.

Oh, another one..Piggy on Voivod's War and Pain! It's nuts! Almost every other riff seems to transition with some kind of raunchy solo; they're flying at you all the time and it rules! Someone said in a review here that it was like he ad-libbed half the album and I laughed because it sounds true, only somehow they make it sound good!
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Kveldulfr
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:47 pm 
 

Andreas Kisser used to be a great solóist, doing very wild stuff combined with more structured leads, at least until Arise you can find great solos. Chaos and Roots are more into the wah abuse, probably Territory was his last good solo within the chaotic style.

Trey always plays this long ass solo section for Blasphemy (of the Holy Ghost) which is awesome live.

From Trey's disciplés, I prefer to Oorthuis from Centurian. That guy not only plays demented and weird leads but his riffs are totally mindbending speed and atónality Choronzonic Chaos Gods is a másterpiece, a spiritual successor to Fórmulas.
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Wrldeatr
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:51 pm 
 

No shortage of wild and technical solos on Children of Bodom albums. The one that impressed me recently was the final solo in the series of solos on "If You Want Peace... Prepare for War"

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Flugeldufel
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:55 pm 
 

Probably not wild or wrong enough for this thread, but I fucking love Temis Osmond's guitar playing. There are so many songs where you're thinking yeah, that's badass, and then he keeps throwing on several more phrases that are crazier than the last.

More on topic, old Beherit has some tasty solos, always placed at the perfect moment after some blasting, evil shit, where the only thing that can increase the musical violence is some nasty ass soloing. Early Darkthrone has this too - on A Blaze in the Northern Sky and Under a Funeral Moon, there are some deliciously evil solos right when you need them. Some of the early-mid Drudkh albums have solos too which are surprisingly uplifting considering their themes.

I'm a shitty guitarist so I can't usually tell when someone fucks up unless they really botch it.

Edit: Onward to Golgotha has the same perfect solo placement I'm talking about. Immortal Cessation has a wonderful section that trades off between quick solos and heavy riffs.

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CF_Mono
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:04 pm 
 

I used to be very into that thing when I was into metal, but as I began to realize that a lot of it was whammy bar stuff I stopped paying attention to them (especially because... I have no whammy bar lol) and learned to appreciate extremely fast and accurate alternate picking more.

To contribute though, listen to the second Incubus record. Actually there's a pretty good mix of both in the soloing there, they're insanely fast and talented.
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~Guest 214846
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:22 pm 
 

TheDefiniteArticle wrote:
A lot of bestial BM stuff, when it uses solos, will use the wild and crazy approach over a short space of time.


Oh yeah, definitely. It especially rules in bands that are usually very bass heavy and low-end like Proclamation or Antediluvian. I love when those high-pitch notes ring out, sounds like they're crawling out of some primordial abyss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLChhLsnbdM
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CrustyMusty
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:52 pm 
 

Not metal but crazy and intense, enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41XCb55jRI8

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Liquid_Braino
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:10 pm 
 

Abominatrix wrote:
Oh, another one..Piggy on Voivod's War and Pain! It's nuts! Almost every other riff seems to transition with some kind of raunchy solo; they're flying at you all the time and it rules! Someone said in a review here that it was like he ad-libbed half the album and I laughed because it sounds true, only somehow they make it sound good!


This is what I thought of while reading the first post. "Suck Your Bone", in particular, is chock full of nutty bluesy soloing intermingling with the riffs.

For something else, off the top of my head I would say Michael Carlino from Fear Of God was pretty intense and had this "bluesman gone bonkers" thing going on regarding that Within The Veil album. Wonder what happened to the dude...

Solo at 3:53
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u7GqO7w ... sb&index=2

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HamburgerBoy
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:20 pm 
 

I don't know if these kinds of leads were Sifringer's or Wilken's contributions, but Cracked Brain has some really weird soloing going on, kind of jazzy and dissonant with a spacey tone that I absolutely love.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p444rqVXaD0#t=3m3s

Napalm Death experimented with these kinds of leads as well around the time of Harmony Corruption.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrU6fAjUkj0#t=3m42s

Actually, the Turkish Pentagram did as well. Does anyone more knowledgeable about guitar playing know what kind of techniques are in common between these examples, if I'm not just imagining it? Or maybe what kind of non-metal influence they're taking after? I think there are some similar leads on Allan Holdsworth's Metal Fatigue as well, for a possible jazz fusion point of origin. I really adore whatever it is that provides this kind of sound.

EDIT: For a non-metal reference, the heavy closing section to Ozric Tentacle's Feng Shui has some similarly twisted guitar leads as well.

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MARSDUDE
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:46 pm 
 

Tony Iommi's most evil guitar solo ('Shock Wave') http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFxj5mybMCo

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PvtNinjer
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:13 pm 
 

I love the wild, sloppy and out of control solos on Bathory's Under the Sign of The Black Mark. And you can't argue with that tone, either.

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lost_wanderer
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:19 pm 
 

I maybe have misread but I'm surprised that no one had mention SLAYER

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themicrulah
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:37 pm 
 

When I do solos I tend to do it in the Azagthothian vein. I don't have his effects pedals but I have a reverb knob and an effects knob on my amp that I turn on when recording solos. The technique is really just controlled chaos, you have to be able to go from quick and intricate tremolo picking patterns, to hammer ons and pulls offs, to chaotic but controlled tapping that has a path very quickly without much space between each of those. It's about mixing up the order of these, really, and trying to do different stuff with each one when you switch the pattern around.
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Awblaster
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:43 pm 
 

Dave Chandler of Saint Vitus. The man is utterly insane, and it's brilliant. Playing the guitar above his head, abusing feedback, trem bars, and wah pedals, playing with his teeth...

http://youtu.be/NHIPLVTY17Y?t=6m16s
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WaywardSon
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:54 pm 
 

I always thought that Criss Oliva had a fairly unique style. He liked throwing little mini solos during the heavier songs.

http://youtu.be/-Byc-YmiZX4?t=3m24s
http://youtu.be/F2fw136qNo8?t=3m6s

He came from the same kind of Eddie Van Halen school Trey did albeit not nearly as inventive or out there.
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themicrulah
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:01 pm 
 

Awblaster wrote:
Dave Chandler of Saint Vitus. The man is utterly insane, and it's brilliant. Playing the guitar above his head, abusing feedback, trem bars, and wah pedals, playing with his teeth...

http://youtu.be/NHIPLVTY17Y?t=6m16s

You DO know who Jimi Hendrix is, correct??

That video reminds me of a scene out of Cheech & Chong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH9_y91ihTo
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HamburgerBoy
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:23 pm 
 

Just remembered Anacrusis' My Soul's Affliction; I don't know many songs where both guitarists play separate leads simultaneously, and how it shifts into this weird dancy Latin part in the second half is especially unexpected.

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Body_Hammer
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:18 am 
 

Tracy G's guitar solos on Dio's Strange Highways are completely bonkers - they were crazy back in 1993 and they're crazy now. I recall reading an interview with Ronnie J in some metal magazine back in the day where he went on at some length about how he "couldn't believe the sounds that guy could get out of his guitar".
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Body_Hammer
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:19 am 
 

Obligatory:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRrTiDfb5Io
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:46 am 
 

Dave Mustaine is simply crazy when he decides to do leads. He's my favorite soloist from Megadeth (slightly beating out Poland). For example, his solo in Holy Wars is simply perfect for this topic, and actually made me wish Marty Friedman never appeared on the record (but that's a different topic).
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Dudemanguy
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:19 pm
Posts: 2449
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:51 am 
 

I find the bluegrass solo very amusing in the middle of this Gargoyle song. I burst out laughing the first time I heard it. It blends in so seamlessly; it's great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_z3evWEjsc

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uzilover
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:28 pm
Posts: 243
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:28 am 
 

Great idea for a thread!

Here's a few more that no one's mentioned yet:

Shrapnel (formerly of Destroyer 666) always seemed to bridge the gap between playing very melodically and chaotically, his tone's absolutely great too: lots of reverb, wah and delay used to good effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfkYkhTDQIc This song kicks in with a good example.

Wino's stuff always has a lot of wild guitar solos, there's something very reckless and soulful about his style:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1sHV3-y7f0 Solo starts at about 1:50 for those who can't be bothered to listen to the whole thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzBbrXFiwNE Ross the Boss is lord (Solo starts at 4:10)

Another good example is Chuck Keller's stuff with Order From Chaos. Most of his solos seem to be composed of tap slides!

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doomster999
Keeper of the Dreary Realm

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:58 am
Posts: 991
Location: India
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:53 am 
 

Kim Thayil's solo on "Beyond the Wheel" is the very definition of sheer insanity. I mean the entire song is such a menace, downtuned heavy as fuck Sabbathy riffs, Cornell's wall shattering banshee wails and that wild solo in the end is the icing on the cake.


Iommi's solo on "Heaven and Hell" is one of the most profound I've ever heard. Nifty use of delay and wah-wah.



Another wah-wah oriented wicked solo is Gregor Mackintosh's on "Embers Fire".

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