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Zurbum
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:42 am
Posts: 32
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 10:05 am 
 

I'd like to start a topic about what you think are the heaviest, hardest and most "extreme" heavy metal albums or bands (or songs!)...not thrash, speed or any other evolution, only the hardest hitting bands or albums of the "classic" heavy metal sound.
The ones i can think of right now are:

Judas Priest - Painkiller, Ram It Down
Metal Church (even though they have thrash elements)
Vicious Rumors
Maybe Venom if you consider them classic heavy metal

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BlackFlag
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:30 pm
Posts: 271
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 10:21 am 
 

Well, it's sort of difficult if you set boundaries between subgenres. At some point, the four bands you mention have been tagged as something else other than classic heavy metal. Don't know, I'd go with Running Wild first two albums, classic Motörhead and early Mercyful Fate...

And here's some rare stuff I'm in love with:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mZ_aOV9-Fo

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Osmiumthemetal
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 10:30 pm
Posts: 203
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 11:19 am 
 

I think a better way to present the topic would be to ask "how extreme can heavy metal get before it's not heavy metal anymore?", which I think is an interesting question. If I had to answer, I'd probably go with something like GISM's "Man" album which is pretty intense by normal heavy metal standards.


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BrutalizerUtilizerOfTheShadows
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:59 am
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Location: In the Cold Winds of Nowhere
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 11:35 am 
 

My first thoughts were Demon Bitch, Satan, and Mercyful Fate.

Demon Bitch has that wild, chaotic feel that the aforementioned bands possess, while still maintaining the classical, melodic aspects of heavy metal riffing. They really reach some otherworldly atmospheres at times, and have some really cool songwriting. Their demo reminds me a lot of what the OP describes, but all their releases have it to some degree.

https://demonbitch.bandcamp.com/
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 11:40 am 
 

Herman Frank's debut was always so ruthlessly over the top for its classic/power metal stylings:



Morgana Lefay could get pretty damn heavy:

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eldakar666
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:03 pm
Posts: 23
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 11:40 am 
 

I think you might like this:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z7oKmMcaBWA

Albo this is pretty amazing :
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1RfKPyb0ZJ8&t=763s


Last edited by eldakar666 on Thu May 07, 2020 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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LithoJazzoSphere
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:11 pm
Posts: 2038
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 11:54 am 
 

This track always struck me as unusually heavy. It's going to be very difficult to find one of these that isn't somewhere considered speed, power, progressive, or thrash or something of the like though.


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Zurbum
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:42 am
Posts: 32
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 2:37 pm 
 

Very good suggestions...also these




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abyss696
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:50 pm
Posts: 85
Location: Spain
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 3:08 pm 
 

Iced Earth released pretty agressive thrashing heavy metal tunes more than once, songs like Night of the Stormrider or Violate are fucking heavy.
Blind Guardian in their early days, specially Follow the Blind album: listen to Damned for All Time, it's almost thrash metal.

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LithoJazzoSphere
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:11 pm
Posts: 2038
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 3:14 pm 
 

Iced Earth is definitely not just a "classic" "heavy metal" band though, songs like those are full-out thrash.

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alexo666
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:53 am
Posts: 427
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 4:18 pm 
 

I don't consider Children Of Bodom to be melodeath so I'm throwing them in the mix.
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Gravetemplar
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 4:32 pm 
 

3 Inches of Blood?



Also, Slaegt are pretty much a heavy metal band with black metal vocals nowadays.


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Unorthodox
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:08 pm
Posts: 2242
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 4:44 pm 
 

That 3 Inches of Blood song takes me back to my THUG 2 days, scoring 1,000,000+ combos while manualing 50% of the time ;)
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doomicus
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 5:58 am
Posts: 680
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 5:53 pm 
 

Would have gone for Satan's Host, but since someone else has already named it I'm going to choose some different picks. So I'd probably go with something like this:


or this:


also always found these next two pretty damn heavy as well:

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jimbies
Noose Springsteen

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:52 pm
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Location: Ontario, Canada
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 9:40 am 
 

Yeah, 3 Inches Of Blood was a good one. Other great songs besides Deadly Sinners are: God Of The Cold White Silence, Look Out, Men Of Fortune, Night Marauders, My Sword Will Not Sleep. I'm still completely bummed out that they broke up, they seemed to only be getting better to me.

This will probably get shit on (and it 75% deserves it), but I'll nominate Pantera. I know they ended up breeding an entire plethora of shitty clone bands and butt-rock metal. (yes, I know them themselves were a clone of Exhorder, but the general population didn't know Exhorder when Pantera was blowing up in the 90's). Maybe I'm showing my age, I hadn't really delved into much more extreme stuff than Slayer in the late 90's when I heard Far Beyond Driven and The Great Southern Trendkill for the first time. I was blown away by the opening tracks on both those records.

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KomaOvTrollz
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:04 am
Posts: 20
Location: Serbia
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 7:58 pm 
 

Maybe Grave Digger? Especially the late 90s-early 00s stuff. They always had pretty savage guitar tones.

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Ill-Starred Son
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
Posts: 822
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 9:08 pm 
 

Osmiumthemetal wrote:
I think a better way to present the topic would be to ask "how extreme can heavy metal get before it's not heavy metal anymore?", which I think is an interesting question. If I had to answer, I'd probably go with something like GISM's "Man" album which is pretty intense by normal heavy metal standards.



I don't know quite what style i'd call this, or G.I.S.M. but I wouldn't call it traditional heavy metal.

We have black metal type vocals, thrash, punk and hardcore influences, etc.

I'd call this a combo of black-thrash and hardcore punk more likely.

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sonero9
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:05 am
Posts: 61
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2020 12:11 pm 
 

Accelerated heavy metal


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Temple Of Blood
Old Man Yells at Cloud

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:16 am
Posts: 3118
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2020 12:32 pm 
 

Painkiller was definitely influenced by thrash/speed, so …
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Gravetemplar
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2020 2:02 pm 
 

Ill-Starred Son wrote:
Osmiumthemetal wrote:
I think a better way to present the topic would be to ask "how extreme can heavy metal get before it's not heavy metal anymore?", which I think is an interesting question. If I had to answer, I'd probably go with something like GISM's "Man" album which is pretty intense by normal heavy metal standards.



I don't know quite what style i'd call this, or G.I.S.M. but I wouldn't call it traditional heavy metal.

We have black metal type vocals, thrash, punk and hardcore influences, etc.

I'd call this a combo of black-thrash and hardcore punk more likely.

Yeah, thy're definetely crust + speed meta/thrash.

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Osmiumthemetal
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 10:30 pm
Posts: 203
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2020 3:07 pm 
 

Um, has anyone here actually listened to Man? It’s mostly straight heavy metal, just very raw and with Sakevi’s harsh vocals. How is the song posted crust or thrash metal in any way? There’s punk undertones, but that doesn’t make it not heavy metal. Do you think heavy metal just exists in a vacuum removed from the rest of the world?

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Zodijackyl
63 Axe Handles High

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2020 3:48 pm 
 

Not "extreme" in that sense, but the heaviest heavy metal of the 80s was Candlemass. They made a song about being kind to people sound like the world was ending in dramatic fashion.

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Acrobat
Eric Olthwaite

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:53 am
Posts: 8581
Location: York, North Yorkshire
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2020 5:31 pm 
 

I'm not really sure why a fluffy, nicey-nicey album like Ram it Down is being mentioned here.

How about Griffin's Protectors of the Lair? Fucking savage album.
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Ill-Starred Son
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
Posts: 822
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2020 7:45 pm 
 

Osmiumthemetal wrote:
Um, has anyone here actually listened to Man? It’s mostly straight heavy metal, just very raw and with Sakevi’s harsh vocals. How is the song posted crust or thrash metal in any way? There’s punk undertones, but that doesn’t make it not heavy metal. Do you think heavy metal just exists in a vacuum removed from the rest of the world?


I have can see how you'd think M.A.N. sounds like a heavy metal album with harsher vocals but their previous album doesn't sound as much like that and overall G.I.S.M. is not a traditional heavy metal band like judas priest or iron Maiden.

They have very large amounts of crust punk and hardcore influence as well as thrash, speed metal and proto-black metal.

They have far too many influences from different styles, but I guess I can kind of see where you are coming from on that album alone.

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CrippledLucifer
Metalhead

Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 5:08 am
Posts: 665
Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 8:01 am 
 

Yeah Detestation is a straight up hardcore record but I don't see how GISM's previous output affect this. M.A.N is harsh vocals over straight 80s heavy metal riffage, so it totally fits the bill.
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Gravetemplar
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Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 8:27 am 
 

Osmiumthemetal wrote:
Um, has anyone here actually listened to Man? It’s mostly straight heavy metal, just very raw and with Sakevi’s harsh vocals. How is the song posted crust or thrash metal in any way? There’s punk undertones, but that doesn’t make it not heavy metal. Do you think heavy metal just exists in a vacuum removed from the rest of the world?

The only thing I would describe about that song as heavy metal are the solos. And yes, I've listened to that album several times and I've even seen them live.

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Zurbum
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:42 am
Posts: 32
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 3:14 pm 
 

Acrobat wrote:
I'm not really sure why a fluffy, nicey-nicey album like Ram it Down is being mentioned here.


Title track and Hard as Iron are fast and heavy, much more than the standard classic metal

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Acrobat
Eric Olthwaite

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:53 am
Posts: 8581
Location: York, North Yorkshire
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 5:41 am 
 

Zurbum wrote:
Acrobat wrote:
I'm not really sure why a fluffy, nicey-nicey album like Ram it Down is being mentioned here.


Title track and Hard as Iron are fast and heavy, much more than the standard classic metal


I see them as the "80's work out montage" versions of, say, 'Screaming for Vengeance' or 'Electric Eye'. Priest did heavier stuff early on. And the song writing choices on those two songs are still "cute" and "fluffy". That 'shout it out! We are together now!" middle 8? Nah, man. You can hear that they were starting to forge the Painkiller sound there, but it's the PG-13 version.
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MawBTS
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:16 am
Posts: 928
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 8:09 pm 
 

Zurbum wrote:
Acrobat wrote:
I'm not really sure why a fluffy, nicey-nicey album like Ram it Down is being mentioned here.


Title track and Hard as Iron are fast and heavy, much more than the standard classic metal


I enjoy that album but the only "heavy" parts of those songs are the super-loud fake drums.

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idunnosomename
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:47 pm
Posts: 483
Location: England
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 8:45 pm 
 

Acrobat wrote:
Zurbum wrote:
Acrobat wrote:
I'm not really sure why a fluffy, nicey-nicey album like Ram it Down is being mentioned here.


Title track and Hard as Iron are fast and heavy, much more than the standard classic metal


I see them as the "80's work out montage" versions of, say, 'Screaming for Vengeance' or 'Electric Eye'. Priest did heavier stuff early on. And the song writing choices on those two songs are still "cute" and "fluffy". That 'shout it out! We are together now!" middle 8? Nah, man. You can hear that they were starting to forge the Painkiller sound there, but it's the PG-13 version.
yes Ram It Down's bridge is weird but the rest of the song is fuckin brutal.

comparable of course is Riot's Thundersteel

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TheCloudMinder
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 9:16 pm
Posts: 14
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2020 9:11 pm 
 

Death Dealer - Warmaster

https://www.metal-archives.com/albums/D ... ter/378925

It is basically the album that could have followed Painkiller.

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eViLbOrIs
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:15 am
Posts: 310
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:50 am 
 

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
This track always struck me as unusually heavy. It's going to be very difficult to find one of these that isn't somewhere considered speed, power, progressive, or thrash or something of the like though.



I'm curious why you selected Taunting Cobras as an example of Savatage's heaviness, instead of one of the heavier cuts from Sirens or Hall of the Mountain King. Both the music and the vocals on each of those albums could probably be described as objectively more extreme than anything on Handful of Rain (which is a great album in its own right!).

If Nevermore falls within the narrow parameters of this thread, then Dreaming Neon Black wins hands down.
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LithoJazzoSphere
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:11 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:25 pm 
 

I think a large issue with this thread and others like it is that we all have different criteria for what we consider as constituting "heavy", so we end up arguing past each other because we're not even really talking about the same things. To me "heaviness" is often a result of production, a resultant combination of the way the guitar tone was captured and tracked (often with doubling and such), the drums (particularly the kick and sometimes the floor toms), the bass, the riffing style, the mixing and processing, and how everything interacts to create sonic impact and force that feels like it's pummeling and crushing me aurally, a figurative representation of actual, physical weight.

I picked "Taunting Cobas" because to me it's an example of a song that isn't in any overt other subgenre of metal, but has most of the characteristics I consider heavy. Most of their other work, including HotMK and Sirens, just feels lighter and more traditional early metal sounding in approach (obviously HotMK has some progressive tendencies, and the latter is also one of the pioneers of USPM). Despite the "heavy" in "heavy metal," I don't find a lot of it actually all that particularly heavy in terms of what I'm looking for. I understand if others hear it differently. I just sampled the first 10 seconds or so of each track on those two albums to refresh my memory and nothing caught my attention as rivaling "Taunting Cobras", but if there's a particular selection you want to highlight, let me know. Another component is that Jon has a higher, shriekier voice, which for me lessens the heaviness compared to Zak. Now in terms of extremity, maybe there's an argument there in terms of speed, blood-curdling vocals or something to that effect, but you'd have to identity a specific example.

Nevermore has far too many thrash influences (and progressive metal for that matter) to ever just count as a plain heavy metal band to me.

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wizard_of_bore
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 4:17 pm
Posts: 654
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:01 pm 
 

I would say Released Upon the Earth by Vengeance Rising. Roger Martinez called the album "grindcore." I don't consider it to be grindcore, but it is much heavier than any of VR's previous material. It's more along the lines of Death Metal.
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eViLbOrIs
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:15 am
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:25 pm 
 

Man, it's so interesting how people hear things differently.

Yeah, Jon Oliva's singing and some of the riffing from the early days of Savatage definitely calls to mind that airier and swingier sound of early heavy metal, at times grazing the boundary of hair metal. But when Jon goes into shriek mode, I think his voice sounds oodles 'heavier' -for what that word is worth- than Zach Stevens. I adore Stevens' vocals, but he is too refined and classical for me to think of as heavy. Even in his more wild moments, I hear a mild man going wild. With Jon, in his more mild moments, I hear a wild man trying to be mild.

As for the music, although Criss's riffs would often lead into sections that were reminiscent of the fluffier side of long hair electric guitar driven music, there was, on HotMK and Sirens at least, *always* a more sinister edge to those sections. And for much of the rest of the time he was straight up downright heavy, at least to my ears.

I'm sure you've heard all these many times already, but I think these are all pretty heavy slabs of US heavy metal: 24 Hours (maybe not that heavy, but hey, it's an excuse to relisten to a great great song), Beyond the Doors of the Dark (classic!), Total Devastation, Hall of the Mountain King, Sirens.
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Zelkiiro
Pounding the world with a fish of steel

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:48 pm 
 

Gentlemen, gentlemen! There's a solution here you're not seeing:

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LithoJazzoSphere
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:11 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:31 pm 
 

eViLbOrIs wrote:
Man, it's so interesting how people hear things differently.

Yeah, Jon Oliva's singing and some of the riffing from the early days of Savatage definitely calls to mind that airier and swingier sound of early heavy metal, at times grazing the boundary of hair metal. But when Jon goes into shriek mode, I think his voice sounds oodles 'heavier' -for what that word is worth- than Zach Stevens. I adore Stevens' vocals, but he is too refined and classical for me to think of as heavy. Even in his more wild moments, I hear a mild man going wild. With Jon, in his more mild moments, I hear a wild man trying to be mild.


I know what's you're saying, but I'd call that aggressive, unrestrained, feral, or something like that rather than "heavy", but that's me.

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