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Amber Gray
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Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:30 am
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:03 am 
 

There's legions of beloved bands that hit the scene with a classic debut, and went on to outdo themselves time and time again, but what about the bands that couldn't? Throughout their career never managing to recapture the flame of that first album.

Some of my choices

Kvelertak - The s/t was a fun and energetic, and also original display of music, but their last two just lack the soul and come out watered down.

Flotsam and Jetsam - Definitely a debatable choice, seeing as No Place for Disgrace is by all accounts an immensely awesome album in its own right, I still prefer Doomsday myself. They tightened up on the next but Doomsday and Newsted's (Newstead?) radical bass molestation have my heart. After NPfD though, they had far from a consistent or stellar output.

Agalloch - Another bold opinion on my part, but Pale Folklore is perfect in my eyes, and has all that I love to hear in atmospheric black metal in abundance. It actually was tough since the Mantle is amazing too, but the in their progression they decreased the elements that I feel make PF such a sick album.

At the Gates - the first AtG album is some of the most twisted death metal I've heard. The style is kinda hard to describe, but it's original, inventive, sinister, atmospheric, and to make a long story short, it just rules very hard
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lordgooseking
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Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:49 am
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:38 am 
 

Arsis immediately comes to mind. Some of their following albums were decent, but nothing comes even close to A Celebration of Guilt.

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The Red Snifit
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:31 pm
Posts: 374
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:10 am 
 

Godflesh. Streetcleaner is a classic, but everything else falls somewhere between "Pretty good" and "Awful."
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Thy Shrine
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:45 am 
 

Not metal, but i've been relistening to Weezer's debut alot, and the more i listen, i think it is better than Pinkerton.
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into_the_pit
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:53 am 
 

definitely mayhem. even though all post-DMDS releases have ranged between good and excellent in quality, the debut album still stands on its own as the arguably best BM release of all time, a monster of an album.
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Electric Death
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Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 4:38 pm
Posts: 144
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:20 am 
 

Amber Gray wrote:
Kvelertak - The s/t was a fun and energetic, and also original display of music, but their last two just lack the soul and come out watered down.


A few songs off their second album was pretty good but most are fillers. Their last album had good songwriting but it left me wondering what the fuck they were thinking with that production and tone. The guitars sounded like bad wet farts.

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Zelkiiro
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:23 am 
 

Battle Beast fall into this category. I've wrestled for a while whether I liked the debut or Unholy Savior more, but the debut won out in the end. There's just more great songs to enjoy than on any of their other albums.

Sonata Arctica also, I believe, had their debut as their strongest work--they may have gotten more complex as time went on, but none of the other albums had the same exuberance as Ecliptica.
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Church13
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Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:26 am
Posts: 395
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:35 am 
 

I guess I'm not much of a metal purist because I am having an incredibly hard time thinking of one, especially in the older generations. Fleshgod Apocalypse is the main one for me, the debut was legendary and everything after ehh

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Intraum
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Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:11 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:41 am 
 

Testament - The Legacy, Exodus - Bonded By Blood, Vio-lence - Eternal Nightmare and Death Angel - The Ultra-Violence are the ones that popped in my mind. i don't think either of these bands have come close to topping the youthful energy found on these albums. it's like every good idea they had came to reality then they just went on rehashing themselves, becoming irrelevant in the process.

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lordcatfish
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Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:44 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:20 am 
 

Zelkiiro wrote:
Battle Beast fall into this category. I've wrestled for a while whether I liked the debut or Unholy Savior more, but the debut won out in the end. There's just more great songs to enjoy than on any of their other albums.

I reckon the self titled is the best they've done. Was making a playlist of their songs the other day and I put almost every one from it on there. Really consistent, high quality album, whereas the others are a bit more patchy in my mind.

The obvious ones for me are:

Dismember - Like an Ever Flowing Stream
Probably my favourite ever death metal album. Perfect mix of heaviness and melody, with some riffs and a buzzsaw guitar tone to die for. Don't think they ever put out a bad album, but this one was ridiculously good.

Decapitated - Winds of Creation
An absolute riff-fest. Still get blown away by how good this is whenever I revisit it. They got gradually worse with each album after sadly.

Masterplan - Masterplan
Loads of great hooks and memorable choruses. Never quite managed to recreate the magic present here.

I'm torn on Blizzard of Ozz and Bark at the Moon. Bark has been my favourite Ozzy album for years, but Blizzard seems to gradually be creeping up to usurp it. One of those albums where it all just came together perfectly (much like Appetite for Destruction, which I'll also mention as Gn'R always get a nod here and there on these boards).
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ModusOperandi
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:39 am 
 

For me, it has to be "Let Us Pray" by Vital Remains. Granted, the two albums that followed also encapsulate the totality of their classic era and best material as a whole, but their debut in particular got so much right on the first go. My appreciation for it has continued to grow with each listen over the years, and sits comfortably alongside Immolation's "Dawn of Possession" and Gorguts's "Considered Dead" as debuts which are all very similar to each other in style and songwriting, yet also stand on their own because of how different each band would become with what's followed since.

Of course, Immolation and Gorguts would both produce their best works later on, but you get what I mean in regards to the parallels.
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Morn Of Solace
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:55 am 
 

Four big ones immediately come to mind:

Taake: Despite "their" consistency, i think that Hoest has yet to surpass the debut. The riffs and the very interesting bass/drum work are glorious on that one

Helloween refined, changed and modernized their sound a lot, but i feel that the raw energy of Walls of Jericho is still unbeatable.. you can really feel where the term "power metal" was born! :)

Katatonia is another big one: i've liked a lot some of their later Porcupine Treeish albums, but the debut has melodies and an atmoshere to die for.. the levels of intensity of an "In silence enshrined" or a "without god" are not here anymore, but they managed to go on quite well :)

And then Morbid angel needs no comments at all :lol:

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BasqueStorm
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:17 am 
 

into_the_pit wrote:
definitely mayhem. even though all post-DMDS releases have ranged between good and excellent in quality, the debut album still stands on its own as the arguably best BM release of all time, a monster of an album.

+1. And Machine Head.

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Ilwhyan
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:06 am 
 

Todtgelichter, quite obviousy. Their debut is high-intensity black metal with depressive touches, and with some brilliant melodies. The second album as a more streamlined record with more rock influences, but it still has some of the passion of the debut. The following three albums have been increasingly rock-influenced, with hints of post-hardcore, metalcore and pop. In every album till the last one, Rooms, there was something that maybe reminded you that it was once a brilliant band, but it was getting scarcer with each release.

Quote:
At the Gates - the first AtG album is some of the most twisted death metal I've heard. The style is kinda hard to describe, but it's original, inventive, sinister, atmospheric, and to make a long story short, it just rules very hard

It's a great album, but I disagree. My favourite is With Fear I Kiss the Burning Darkness, and has been so for a long time. It's very similar but more melodic, and it has quite a different atmosphere, possibly due to the meatier production as well. I guess it trades the insane intensity of Red for a more sophisticated sense of melody and harmony. Both albums are, at best, absolutely brilliant, but both are also slightly inconsistent, and the song structures are insanely jumbled even in songs that are under 3 minutes long. I love those two albums, though.
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droneriot
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:16 am 
 

Mortal Throne of Nazarene came close, but Incantation never topped their debut. Godflesh definitely, by a comfortable margin. Morbid Angel I agree, too. Nocturnus' later stuff is rather unpopular but I think it's great stuff, but obviously never even close in quality to the debut. Celtic Frost stands out as one of those bands who only released godawful worthless garbage after their debut.

Also, most of the Brazilian thrash bands completely lost it after their debuts. Holocausto and Vulcano definitely, Mutilator I think too, Sarcófago stayed okay-ish for a while but dropped in quality nonetheless, even Sepultura you could hear losing it a bit with each album (though Schizophrenia was still great stuff).
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Bishop_Drugsalot
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:44 am 
 

I can think of tons imo.

Death - Scream Bloody Gore. Leprosy was a slightly watered-down version of it and the rest aren't up to its standard at all.

Emperor - In the Nightside Eclipse. Don't know if this even requires an explanation. Sure, Anthems was a great album as well but head-to-head it's ItNE all day.

Behemoth - Sventevith. I count From the Pagan Vastlands... as a demo so this'd be their debut. An underrated album full of atmospheric black metal with a distinctive feel to it. Grom was a nice effort with its black/thrash riffs and their latest isn't bad at all but...

Borknagar - S/T. One might argue Olden Domain over this one and I'm almost okay with that but for me this is the crown jewel.

I'm not really saying anything on my explanations so I'll just list the few others:

Deströyer 666 - Unchain the Wolves
Entombed - Left Hand Path
Grave - Into the Grave
Helheim - Jormundgand
King Crimson - In the Court of the Crimson King
Celtic Frost - To Mega Therion
Vomitor - Bleeding the Priest
Taake - Nattestid

And so on...

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Terri23
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Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:53 am
Posts: 2497
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:55 am 
 

You could probably make this argument for well over 80% of the entire output of thrash metal debuts. Very few of them actually improved on their debut. Virtually everything in the so called second tier falls into this category. Below that, it's a case of whether they actually put out a second record. Exodus, Testament, Overkill (be cool Diamhea), Death Angel, Mortal Sin, Flotsam, Hobbs', and the like all peaked with the debut.

This might actually be true of most genres of metal actually. I just don't know enough on the others to make the same assumption.
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Red_Death
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:03 am 
 

The "closest" one for me that would fall into this category is Morbid Angel. They got really close with Formulas Fatal to the Flesh but that album is simply too personal for me to judge it without heavy (positive) bias.

Tribulation is another case. The Formulas of Death was quite good and interesting, but an overall step down when compared to the sheer intensity and brilliance of the debut. Their last one is utter shit.

Terri23 wrote:
You could probably make this argument for well over 80% of the entire output of thrash metal debuts...
Overkill (be cool Diamhea)

Whoa, didn't see something this ridiculous coming :lol:

But yeah, opinions and stuff.
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Diamhea
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:40 am 
 

Feel the Fire while a stone cold classic, is irrefutably flawed. Past Rotten to the Core, Hammerhead, the title track and the band's eponymous cut, the remaining songs are nowhere near on the same level. Then you have Carl Canedy rushing the production and Bobby G. didn't have time to get the guitar sound he wanted... Taking Over feels twice as heavy, both compositionally and sonically.
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volutetheswarth
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:52 am 
 

Eh, only the demo was real - the thread.

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Bishop_Drugsalot
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:19 am 
 

volutetheswarth wrote:
Eh, only the demo was real - the thread.

No, it's not. This is about debut albums.

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Tanuki
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Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:36 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:39 am 
 

Terri23 wrote:
You could probably make this argument for well over 80% of the entire output of thrash metal debuts.

Yup.

So I guess I'll be the one to mention Annihilator and Sacred Reich. I'm more willing to defend Annihilator albums than most people - I actually liked King of the Kill a lot - but I wouldn't pick any over Alice in Hell in a million years. Sacred Reich is a little more clear-cut, i.e, everything post-Ignorance was excrement. I was also gonna bring up Whiplash, but eh. I think Power and Pain is their best album, but I wouldn't say there was a definitive drop in quality after that, so probably not worth mentioning.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:47 am 
 

Jag Panzer. They had good stuff here and there, but Ample Destruction was just too fucking good to beat. I appreciate that they tried new things later and didn't just fall into being a throwback band, but I don't think their experiments ever were fully realized.
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e_ddi_e
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:50 am 
 

Yeah - I would be the one mentioning Metal Church then.
Don't get me wrong, I think that The Dark, Blessing in Disguise and The Human Factor are fantastic albums. But the debut is insanely good.

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GoatBoat
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:50 am 
 

Forced Entry's first album tops every other thing they've done, as does Evil Dead. It's the case with a lot of thrash bands, I find.

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Bloody Nine
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Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:51 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:02 am 
 

e_ddi_e wrote:
Yeah - I would be the one mentioning Metal Church then.
Don't get me wrong, I think that The Dark, Blessing in Disguise and The Human Factor are fantastic albums. But the debut is insanely good.


I like all of those albums, but Hanging in the Balance has to be my favorite. Almost every song on that album is gold.

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e_ddi_e
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Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:11 am 
 

Bloody Nine wrote:
e_ddi_e wrote:
Yeah - I would be the one mentioning Metal Church then.
Don't get me wrong, I think that The Dark, Blessing in Disguise and The Human Factor are fantastic albums. But the debut is insanely good.


I like all of those albums, but Hanging in the Balance has to be my favorite. Almost every song on that album is gold.


I actually never got into it at the time. Perhaps I'll give it another go now.

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jimbies
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:35 am 
 

I may get crucified for this, but for me it's Slayer.

Show No Mercy is my favorite Slayer record. Reign In Blood is a close second, but I still take the debut over all.

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Cosmic_Equilibrium
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:44 am 
 

Not metal, but Pearl Jam are the obvious choice for this topic. Guns n Roses also.

In terms of metal bands, I'm tempted to go for Megadeth.

Many people will suggest Candlemass, but I think Nightfall is just as good as Epicus.

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TrooperEd
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:01 am 
 

I could have sworn we did this thread about a month ago and thought it was going to be locked. But since it apparently isn't....


-Deicide: s/t The sound is the most demonic and the songs were never catchier than they are here.

-Dio: Holy Diver The song writing was never as consistently strong as it was here (though Dream Evil came pretty close).

-Rotting Christ: Thy Mighty Contract Not too short, not too long, just awesome Sabbath like riffing but Black Metal. Exiled Archangels is the best break since Angel of Death.

-Cannibal Corpse: Eaten Back To Life The death/thrash style worked best for them. While they created some iconic songs after this, their overall sound got a little too chunky and percussive for my taste.

Also, +1 Scream Bloody Gore
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Electric Death
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:22 am 
 

Bishop_Drugsalot wrote:
Death - Scream Bloody Gore. Leprosy was a slightly watered-down version of it and the rest aren't up to its standard at all.


Mind explaining why? Symbolic, and Individual Thought Patterns and the Sound of Perseverance are some of my favorite albums of all time. They're the perfect blend of proggy tendencies and death metal. It's what I go for when I want something melodic-ish but not in the mood to listen to regular melodeath. I think I enjoy them more than Scream Bloody Gore.

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fourrobert13
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:38 am 
 

I can't believe no one has mentioned Massacre. Nothing they did after From Beyond was worth a shit.
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Sepulchrave
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:18 am 
 

Bishop_Drugsalot wrote:
King Crimson - In the Court of the Crimson King


Ha ha

Wrong

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Morn Of Solace
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:39 am 
 

^^^
You two are both right. The quality of those albums defies the aristotelic logic :lol:

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CorpseFister
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:56 am 
 

TrooperEd wrote:
-Deicide: s/t The sound is the most demonic and the songs were never catchier than they are here.

Yeah, a lot of people rate Legion higher but I'd have to agree with this. So damn catchy and evil!

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stainedclass2112
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:00 pm 
 

fourrobert13 wrote:
I can't believe no one has mentioned Massacre. Nothing they did after From Beyond was worth a shit.


Not even From Beyond is worth anything. Just a terrible debut from a terrible band, and the stuff after it was somehow worse.
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Norrmania
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:10 pm 
 

I think most of the ones that came to mind are pretty non-controversial.

Agree with those who have mentioned Death Angel's The Ultra-Violence and Exodus Bonded By Blood. Death Angel tanked almost immediately and Exodus just never was able to put out something that vicious again. To those thrash acts I'd definitely add Sadus' Illusions.

I saw someone mention Show No Mercy. Honestly SNM is my favourite Slayer album hands down, but I think its too different from subsequent albums for me to call it definitively the best Slayer album. As I said, SNM is my favourite personally, but I can easily appreciate how that would be Hell Awaits or RiB for other folks.

Hate Forest's The Most Ancient Ones, definitely the best thing Roman Saenko ever managed to do with that band, and probably the most vicious music he's written for any of his bands.

I would definitely include Omen's Battle Cry too. None of the followup albums really held a candle to that one, and didn't have the same energy.

Also agree with Decapitated Winds of Creation mention too. Decapitated just never came close to Winds ever again. Nihility was good though honestly can't remember The Negation of Organic Hallucinosis very much. Its been ages since I heard them, but definitely never recaptured the level they were at with Winds. Anything I heard after Organic was pretty uninteresting.

One that I'm kind of undecided on in my mind is Ereb Altor's By Honour. I also really love Fire Meets Ice, but despite that the albums have slightly different vibes because of the growing more mid-paced black metal in Fire Meets Ice I'm still tempted to say By Honour. Though honestly says nothing about the rest of their albums, because I do like all of them a lot.

Morbid Angel is another one where in a way I agree Altars of Madness is their best, but I think that Gateways to Annihilation and Covenant are also really fucking great albums.

stainedclass2112 wrote:
Not even From Beyond is worth anything.


:nono:

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Subrick
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:40 pm 
 

Immediately thought of Annihilator. You could make a cast for Never, Neverland, I guess, but nothing they've done as an overall package is as good as Alice in Hell. It's the most interesting, best written, and, not surprisingly, most successful & most fondly remembered of all their albums.
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brainbomb
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:48 pm 
 

Venom.

Black Metal is great as well, but for me, Welcome to Hell is Venom in all its speed trash glory.

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droneriot
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:51 pm 
 

stainedclass2112 wrote:
Not even From Beyond is worth anything. Just a terrible debut from a terrible band, and the stuff after it was somehow worse.

Sure, guy who loves shred for System of a Down fans, educate us on quality death metal. :)

I can't really agree on the mentions of Scream Bloody Gore, they're one of the few bands where I prefer the more "fluffy" later material, the first two records are just a chore with their playing each simple part a trillion times into the ground.
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