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Napalm_Satan
One-Trick Pony

Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:27 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:50 pm 
 

'Spokane County drops rape charges against all members of Polish death metal band Decapitated'


From their Facebook page:


Decapitated wrote:
All charges against Decapitated have formally been dropped. Arrested September 8 in Santa Ana whilst on tour, the members of the band were jailed until December where they were released on their own recognizance.

New evidence arose that helped show that the band was innocent. While a trial would have given the band the opportunity to have all this evidence heard, the band welcome the decision and are excited to return back to their homes in Poland.

The members of Decapitated – Wacław, Rafal, Michał and Hubert - send a sincere and heartfelt thanks to all who supported them during this difficult time, including fans, friends, and family.



There isn't much that can be said about this really, it speaks for itself. I am interested to know what the new evidence was, though.
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Required Fields
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Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:32 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:56 pm 
 

I heard something about people saying they saw the alleged victim self harming herself during the show, possibly to make it look like she was going to set them up.

Either way, it's a real relief to find out they're not guilty. I remember when they were charged, most of the board seemed to want them to be guilty. I wonder why that was.
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Diamhea
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:05 pm 
 

No kidding. Hope they can recover from this, then.
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~Guest 226319
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Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:20 pm 
 

I am surprised and pleased by this development!

Required Fields wrote:
I remember when they were charged, most of the board seemed to want them to be guilty.

Most didn't want them to be guilty, it just looked very bad for the band based on the info that was public.

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GTog
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Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:35 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:25 pm 
 

Probably we'll never know what the "new evidence" could have been. But, isn't is significant that the lawyer cites "new evidence" at all? Not lack of evidence, not some kind of testimony, but in fact something new that was learned? Must have been something substantial, for the DA to give up on multiple felonies on all four of them.
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HamburgerBoy
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:33 pm 
 

Knowing the ability of people on the internet to assume the guilt of the accused right up until the end, I am sure that any actual rape victims nervous about coming forward will certainly do so now.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:36 pm 
 

John_Sunlight wrote:
I am surprised and pleased by this development!

Required Fields wrote:
I remember when they were charged, most of the board seemed to want them to be guilty.

Most didn't want them to be guilty, it just looked very bad for the band based on the info that was public.


I don't think it's about "wanting" anything really. I don't think that enters into it.

Surprising development really... well I hope justice was done here and things can go back to normal.
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Warty_basaloid
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:32 am
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:14 pm 
 

There you go. Hopefully it's all settled now.

Check the original thread to see which members may have a slight tendency to join a lynch mob before a trial :-p

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putrenista
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:17 pm 
 

Wow, interesting development. Probably going to be shocking to a large number of people on here. Still that sucks that someone tried to falsely pin this kinda shit on them, it's definitely going to go into tarnishing their reputation amongst fans/listeners for a long time. And of course, this all assumes they really were innocent and that justice was served of course, who knows really.

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henkkjelle
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:18 pm 
 

I would be lying if I said I saw this coming, but I've always had a weird feeling about this case for multiple reasons. I know, hindsight is 20/20 and you can't go with your gut feeling in cases like this, whatever you think is true. I hope the band bounces back from this without any serious lasting effects.

Still, it's good to believe the possible victim in cases like this and you can do that without vilifying the accused. I'm just incredibly curious about that new evidence.....

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FasterDisaster
Metal Pounder

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:08 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:25 pm 
 

I'm glad this has been settled. It's better to wait for something official (evidence, stories, etc.) than to jerry-rig non-existent scenarios in the brain to fill in the gaps that haven't been explained yet, which is what many posters in the original thread were doing. All the article mentions was "bodily harm consistent with moshing" was explained in the article, but I would like to know what else had them turn over the case.

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MrMcThrasher II
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Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:01 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:38 pm 
 

I had a feeling foreigners wouldn't just come over seas to rape our women.

What's that new evidence though?
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true_death
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Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:47 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:53 pm 
 

MrMcThrasher II wrote:
I had a feeling foreigners wouldn't just come over seas to rape our women.

What's that new evidence though?


This obviously isn't the "new evidence" they are referring to but it's definitely stuff that hadn't been revealed to the public before now (at least as far as I know):

Quote:
Andy Marsh, a member of THY ART IS MURDER, provided testimony for the defense, saying he saw the woman violently dancing in the mosh pit in front of the stage. "She was smashing her hands, arms and body against the metal barricade between the audience and the stage," he said in the court documents.


Quote:
Defense attorneys questioned the credibility of the accuser, who in 2014 admitted to lying to police about injuries she sustained during an assault, when her boyfriend was accused of stabbing three people. It was later determined that she was actually injured by her boyfriend during a previous argument.
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MikeyC
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:27 pm 
 

Honestly, I thought the band was going to jail for sure, just from the evidence early on and their conflicting stories about who she was and how she got those bruises/marks on her. I'm super happy for this outcome and hope Decapitated can recover back home.

It might be a while before they tour again, and they may never go back to America.
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idunnosomename
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:31 pm 
 

Well what can you say other than that justice has been done and let's move on? It seems very odd to me the entire band would be complicit in forcing themselves on someone. While it's not a casual or everyday thing to wrongfully accuse men of rape, it does happen.

Might put them off touring the US ever again though. It could have ruined their lives, never mind their careers.

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Rasha_yad
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:36 pm 
 

The previous threads about this are now extremely hilarious.

But seriously you guys, rape victims are horribly mistreated in this evil patriarchal rape culture because no one ever believes them.

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Banach
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:41 pm 
 

Not completely surprising. My guess is that the victim has a history of mental instability/self-harm and that the prosecution don't believe a trial will lead to a conviction (and that their lawyers will nix any plea bargain). I've seen that before in cases where the victim has a history of mental issues. So was it one of those "made-up rape cases" then? We have no idea. We only know that the charges were dropped and the accused should be considered legally cleared. I do find the circumstances rather bad though. The guys in the band should know better than to be involved in a situation like this. I mean, come on, several guys taking turns with a woman who most likely were behaving a bit off, and also doing this on foreign soil? Too weird for my taste.

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Pichushkin
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Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:41 am
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:50 pm 
 

Yeah I kinda had a feeling this would happen.

Now I can listen to The Negation without feeling awkward. That’s the real good news . (At least for me)
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Rasha_yad
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Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:46 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:53 pm 
 

Banach wrote:
My guess is that the victim

Who?

The prosecutor did the same thing: assuming she had been victimized, and calling her a victim. Pretty damn weird. Should the attorneys refer to their clients as "the innocently accused"?

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Banach
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:57 pm 
 

Rasha_yad wrote:
Banach wrote:
My guess is that the victim

Who?

The prosecutor did the same thing: assuming she had been victimized, and calling her a victim. Pretty damn weird. Should the attorneys refer to their clients as "the innocently accused"?


My bad, I guess "suspected victim" would have been appropriate. Or if you want to interpret victim in a wider sense (as in a victim of the circumstances). But then again, that would victimize people in a way that's weird as well. The language is difficult and very loaded in cases like this.

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DoomMetalAlchemist
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Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:10 am
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:59 pm 
 

Banach wrote:
Rasha_yad wrote:
Who?

The prosecutor did the same thing: assuming she had been victimized, and calling her a victim. Pretty damn weird. Should the attorneys refer to their clients as "the innocently accused"?


My bad, I guess "suspected victim" would have been appropriate. Or if you want to interpret victim in a wider sense (as in a victim of the circumstances). But then again, that would victimize people in a way that's weird as well. The language is difficult and very loaded in cases like this.


I believe "alleged victim" would be the proper term.
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miskatonic79
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Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:57 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:03 pm 
 

Required Fields wrote:
I heard something about people saying they saw the alleged victim self harming herself during the show, possibly to make it look like she was going to set them up.

Either way, it's a real relief to find out they're not guilty. I remember when they were charged, most of the board seemed to want them to be guilty. I wonder why that was.



Yeah, I was thinking about that and basically, my opinion is that this board is mostly liberal minded people, and liberals tend to "be victims" of something, so I see this tying in. That and the current anti-masculinity social trend we have going on.
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Last edited by miskatonic79 on Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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miskatonic79
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:04 pm 
 

Warty_basaloid wrote:
There you go. Hopefully it's all settled now.

Check the original thread to see which members may have a slight tendency to join a lynch mob before a trial :-p


Yes, very good point to bring up.
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Banach
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:09 pm 
 

DoomMetalAlchemist wrote:
I believe "alleged victim" would be the proper term.


Absolutely, legally that's the correct term. However, in my mind it comes with a negative spin (from the alleged victims standpoint). Although I guess "suspected" might have a positive spin instead so either way the language is difficult. I'll concede that this might just be in my head though, and that English is not my native tongue.

As others have stated, the whole victimization that's been going on lately on a larger scale is disturbing. There's just something about these cases that gets to me since I've known people where the legal system just basically states that you're too fucked up/no one's going to believe you anyway, and drops the charges.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:11 pm 
 

Rasha_yad wrote:
The previous threads about this are now extremely hilarious.

But seriously you guys, rape victims are horribly mistreated in this evil patriarchal rape culture because no one ever believes them.


What you said is true in spite of your shitty smarmy tone about it. This case turned out this way, but rape still happens all the time and isn't just a joke for mouth-breathers like you to make.

"Alleged victim" is a court term, as is "innocent until proven guilty," and all that type of stuff - it doesn't have to be a hard rule for people to say that in everyday conversation, so it doesn't exactly prove any point. There was no lynch mob. Nobody said the band should be strung up and murdered immediately. However it's just weird if you hear about a case like this and automatically go "yeah, the woman might be lying" with no other evidence. It turned out that way here, but easily couldn't've. Shit happens out there, is all. Have compassion and shit.
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demonomania
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:14 pm 
 

The public sphere of madness.
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DrummingEdge133
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:15 pm 
 

I'm glad they were cleared and are able to go home now. I was hoping this didn't occur, and it seems that's the case. People in the previous thread were too quick to judge I felt on this particular case. It seemed there were a lot of unknowns, like basically the entire defense's side.

Still, rape is obviously a difficult and unique problem in our modern society and we are clearly still trying to learn how best to deal with it.
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Required Fields
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:38 pm 
 

Pichushkin wrote:
Yeah I kinda had a feeling this would happen.

Now I can listen to The Negation without feeling awkward. That’s the real good news . (At least for me)


Same here, although I slightly prefer Winds of Creation. Both awesome albums, and while I didn't stop listening to them (I've spun each of the first few albums a couple of times since the charges were laid), it would have been heartbreaking if they were in fact guilty.

But since they aren't, things are back to normal again. I wonder what the people critical towards me for my YouTube video on the matter would have to say in retrospect.
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Turner
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:49 pm 
 

Required Fields wrote:
I wonder what the people critical towards me for my YouTube video on the matter would have to say in retrospect.


Oh I think everyone is now totally on board with you dude. Here we were thinking the world at large had no interest in heavy metal - how wrong we were! The mainstream conspiracy against heavy metal is real! Metalheads are society's real pariahs! This oppression must end!

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Everflowingstream
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:14 pm 
 

A query in respect to rape in general - what are the consequences, if any, for someone who is proven to have falsely accused a party of rape? Can really ruin someone's life and the smear seems to last more often than not. I guess its hard to get to that position as for charges to be laid you'd imagine in most circumstances there has been intercourse. Then a lot of the time it is verbal evidence. Just a shit sandwich all round.

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cultofkraken
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:04 pm 
 

Everflowingstream wrote:
A query in respect to rape in general - what are the consequences, if any, for someone who is proven to have falsely accused a party of rape? Can really ruin someone's life and the smear seems to last more often than not. I guess its hard to get to that position as for charges to be laid you'd imagine in most circumstances there has been intercourse. Then a lot of the time it is verbal evidence. Just a shit sandwich all round.


I would imagine a lot of suing in civil court. Libel and the like. I’m not sure in this case there’d be a point to suing even though I am sure there was money lost for Decapitated and their label. I doubt they’ll be able to recoup it.
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Everflowingstream
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:00 am 
 

cultofkraken wrote:
Everflowingstream wrote:
A query in respect to rape in general - what are the consequences, if any, for someone who is proven to have falsely accused a party of rape? Can really ruin someone's life and the smear seems to last more often than not. I guess its hard to get to that position as for charges to be laid you'd imagine in most circumstances there has been intercourse. Then a lot of the time it is verbal evidence. Just a shit sandwich all round.


I would imagine a lot of suing in civil court. Libel and the like. I’m not sure in this case there’d be a point to suing even though I am sure there was money lost for Decapitated and their label. I doubt they’ll be able to recoup it.


No doubt, but as you point out, if there's nothing there there is no point to throwing money away.

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~Guest 226319
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:14 am 
 

miskatonic79 wrote:
Yeah, I was thinking about that and basically, my opinion is that this board is mostly liberal minded people, and liberals tend to "be victims" of something, so I see this tying in.

It's actually the opposite. Conservatives believe themselves to be the victims of a changing world and harbor extreme resentment over that. This is why they generally have conspiratorial views as it explains why the world changed in a way detrimental to themselves. Examples are: war on masculinity, war on Christmas, white genocide, etc. They believe they are not getting what should by inheritance be theirs, which is going to someone else, and not getting the deference from others they are owed, which explains their hostility to different people and ideas and their embrace of policies which are motivated by spite.

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TrooperEd
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:34 am 
 

I hope the accusers get some kind of punishment. I'm so fucking sick of all these false charges across the media and nothing ever happening to the people who cry wolf.
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~Guest 226319
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:41 am 
 

Filing a false police report is a crime (with severity different in different states) though I don't know if there's a more specific crime for false rape claims. They could maybe pursue a civil case but I suspect the band would probably rather just get out of the country asap...

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Unorthodox
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:59 am 
 

That makes me feel better. Kinda not a fun news to hear one of your favorite death metal bands is comprised of rapists. Hope they return to the states for another tour soon!
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putrenista
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:03 am 
 

^ Totally. I haven't really heard much from Decapitated yet, but this was definitely going to be a dealbreaker for me had they been convicted, which would have been a shame because I know they probably have some great albums. What's the best place to start with them?

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LOC78SK
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:04 am 
 

nobody in this thread understands what "without prejudice" means, apparently.

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schizoid
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:23 am 
 

LOC78SK wrote:
nobody in this thread understands what "without prejudice" means, apparently.


Legal jargon is hard to decipher. From what I can tell, it means the accuser is not barred from bringing forward a new case, so the charges are not exactly being thrown out of court. Is there anyone who can give a clear interpretation of this, and how it may pertain to this case?
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LOC78SK
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:30 am 
 

schizoid wrote:
LOC78SK wrote:
nobody in this thread understands what "without prejudice" means, apparently.


Legal jargon is hard to decipher. From what I can tell, it means the accuser is not barred from bringing forward a new case, so the charges are not exactly being thrown out of court. Is there anyone who can give a clear interpretation of this, and how it may pertain to this case?



long story short, the charges can be legally refiled at any time.

further; other than Roman Polanski, Poland generally upholds their extradition treaties with the USA.

while this guarantees nothing one way or another, it is far from "safe" for the band in the future.

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