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PvtNinjer
Metal freak

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:45 am
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:44 am 
 

Why should it be? I mean I love that stuff too, don't get me wrong, but clearly the world has moved on.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:01 am 
 

I think heavy music should do whatever it's going to do and keep evolving with new generations. I'll still have my old metal albums for whenever I feel like listening to that and there'll always be new bands trying out the style anyway.
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NuclearDrumsCrushedMyBrain
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Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:48 pm
Posts: 154
PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 5:15 pm 
 

While this is reviving the thread 3 years later, I feel that people here are seriously underestimating how massive Sabaton are. Slayer are a big mainstream band with 2 million fans on Spotify, but Sabaton are significantly bigger at 2.9 million, and their last album topped the charts in Sweden and Germany. I understand they aren't as big in the USA as in some parts of Europe, but they're already much bigger than some of the classic 1980s bands, such as Anthrax, and could easily headline a big metal festival in Europe (which is where most of the big metal festivals are anyway). Excluding early influences like Priest and Maiden, they're the biggest band in the history of power metal, and they're not far off catching up to Priest. Even Dragonforce at 1.7 million doesn't come close.

Ghost are also already bigger than Slayer at 2.2 million listeners, and Gojira at 1.4 million could reach that level if they're lucky.

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Vadara
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:14 pm
Posts: 484
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 5:50 pm 
 

If Lorna Shore can capitalize on the surprising popularity of To The Hellfire they might be able to pull big numbers at shows. But I'm not sure all the fans there for the memes and reactions will stay for that long.

I just don't think any band that is even remotely metal or adjacent to metal is gonna pull the numbers of bands like Maiden, Sabbath, Slayer, etc. That time is long past. Those guys have a legacy from being the forefront of this stuff that no band after them can get by definition. Even your parents know who Iron Maiden is.

NuclearDrumsCrushedMyBrain wrote:
While this is reviving the thread 3 years later, I feel that people here are seriously underestimating how massive Sabaton are. Slayer are a big mainstream band with 2 million fans on Spotify, but Sabaton are significantly bigger at 2.9 million, and their last album topped the charts in Sweden and Germany. I understand they aren't as big in the USA as in some parts of Europe, but they're already much bigger than some of the classic 1980s bands, such as Anthrax, and could easily headline a big metal festival in Europe (which is where most of the big metal festivals are anyway). Excluding early influences like Priest and Maiden, they're the biggest band in the history of power metal, and they're not far off catching up to Priest. Even Dragonforce at 1.7 million doesn't come close.

Ghost are also already bigger than Slayer at 2.2 million listeners, and Gojira at 1.4 million could reach that level if they're lucky.


I have seen a bunch of people I would not expect to know or care about metal mention Sabaton, actually, so you may be right, and their popularity doesn't seem to be driven solely by memes like Dragonforce's was.

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NuclearDrumsCrushedMyBrain
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 6:43 pm 
 

Sabbath/Maiden sure (unless you count Bring Me The Horizon, who were a -core band originally), but modern metal bands can absolutely surpass Slayer. Slayer were big but they weren't Iron Maiden. Sabaton already have, I'd say they're more well recognised by non-metalheads than Slayer are and I see them mentioned more often outside of metalhead circles. I do think there is a meme aspect to that, though, since their lyrics tend to get quoted a lot in Reddit threads and YouTube comments.

I suspect part of the reason Sabaton aren't mentioned very much in conversations like this is that a lot of their fanbase is very young, often teenagers, and this forum seems to be mostly people in their 30s. We don't see Sabaton's huge fanbase on here, which also spills over into power metal in general to some extent.

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acid_bukkake
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:06 pm 
 

I feel like using Spotify listeners as the metric for a band's popularity isn't the most accurate form of measurement. For example, rapper Juice WRLD has more Spotify listeners than either the Beatles (who are, quite literally, the biggest band in the history of popular music) or Michael Jackson (who has two of the ten highest selling albums of all-time).
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NuclearDrumsCrushedMyBrain
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:19 pm 
 

It's a good measurement for how popular they are now, not decades ago. The Beatles and Michael Jackson haven't performed or released any new music for decades so they aren't as popular as a trendy rapper from the 2010s. Of course, if we're rephrasing that to how big those artists were in 1991 that's very different.

There are other metrics, like that Sabaton can headline big metal festivals in Europe, but that's just one indication.

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morbert
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:36 am
Posts: 1276
PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:20 am 
 

Sofar none will reach the hights Maiden and Metallica once did. They're rare.
Nightwish and Lamb of God might be pretty big but they'll never get as big as said bands once were i.m.h.o.
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marktheviktor
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:24 am 
 

I rarely attend concerts. The last one I did go to was at a large beerhall-type venue in downtown Phoenix exactly two years ago. When I was there, I saw that Sabaton was scheduled to play the following week. So it surprises me to read how big the band has gotten in the rest of the world but not in the States.

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Terri23
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:06 am 
 

NuclearDrumsCrushedMyBrain wrote:
While this is reviving the thread 3 years later, I feel that people here are seriously underestimating how massive Sabaton are. Slayer are a big mainstream band with 2 million fans on Spotify, but Sabaton are significantly bigger at 2.9 million, and their last album topped the charts in Sweden and Germany. I understand they aren't as big in the USA as in some parts of Europe, but they're already much bigger than some of the classic 1980s bands, such as Anthrax, and could easily headline a big metal festival in Europe (which is where most of the big metal festivals are anyway). Excluding early influences like Priest and Maiden, they're the biggest band in the history of power metal, and they're not far off catching up to Priest. Even Dragonforce at 1.7 million doesn't come close.

Ghost are also already bigger than Slayer at 2.2 million listeners, and Gojira at 1.4 million could reach that level if they're lucky.


Spotify has a particular audience. To say that Sabaton are anywhere close to Slayer in terms of popularity is a joke. To use another measurement, Slayer have nearly 5 million fans on Facebook, where Sabaton have just over 1 million. There's a huge portion of metal fans, especially older fans that don't stream at all.
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des91
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:10 pm 
 

Yea I’d say a lot of the pre millennial or younger Gen X’ers don’t use Spotify on a consistent basis.

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Bingewolf
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Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:59 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:42 pm 
 

NuclearDrumsCrushedMyBrain wrote:
While this is reviving the thread 3 years later, I feel that people here are seriously underestimating how massive Sabaton are. Slayer are a big mainstream band with 2 million fans on Spotify, but Sabaton are significantly bigger at 2.9 million, and their last album topped the charts in Sweden and Germany. I understand they aren't as big in the USA as in some parts of Europe, but they're already much bigger than some of the classic 1980s bands, such as Anthrax, and could easily headline a big metal festival in Europe (which is where most of the big metal festivals are anyway). Excluding early influences like Priest and Maiden, they're the biggest band in the history of power metal, and they're not far off catching up to Priest. Even Dragonforce at 1.7 million doesn't come close.

Ghost are also already bigger than Slayer at 2.2 million listeners, and Gojira at 1.4 million could reach that level if they're lucky.


Sabbaton are a weird outlier -- they are MASSIVE outside of the US, but in the US no one knows them. In the US, the band that has taken over is Slipknot. Any major festival, Slipknot is the headliner. I think it might have been Suicide Silence until Mitch passed. But no one in America is going to a festival headlined by a power metal band (no disrespect - just the culture).

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morbert
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:36 am
Posts: 1276
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 2:13 am 
 

Bingewolf wrote:
Sabbaton are a weird outlier -- they are MASSIVE outside of the US, but in the US no one knows them. In the US, the band that has taken over is Slipknot. Any major festival, Slipknot is the headliner. I think it might have been Suicide Silence until Mitch passed. But no one in America is going to a festival headlined by a power metal band (no disrespect - just the culture).


Hmm, based on Spotify fans? I still think Sabaton is too niche, their main audience is relatively young and I don't think they will get as big outside of their target audience.
Yes, they are popular but I honestly think their popularity is waning already because 'Heroes' is already 7 years old and none of their releases after that have been received as well (as far as I can tell).

But interesting point regarding metal culture in the U.S.
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InnesI
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 5:06 am 
 

I think its always tough to compare bands based on certain specific criteria whether it is spotify streams, album sales, merch sales or headline dates. Even more so if we compare bands like Slayer who were among the pioneer bands of a genre while it was getting popular and Sabaton who had made a great career but hasn't innovated anything.

However, if we are specifically discussing how many people bands draw at their concerts it should be easy to just go and read statistics. I don't have any numberers in front of me but if we are to compare Slayer and Sabaton in relation to the crowd they draw it should be as easy as going back and see the attendance numbers of their latest big tour. There are obviously other factors playing into it. Sabaton seems far less popular in the US than in Europe so the numbers might be skewed but taken it into consideration we should get a fine idea of how the bands compare live.

However there is not question that Slayer is the band who is more influential, more important and more well known. That is based on when they had their peak and Sabaton can never compete on those terms.
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des91
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 3:33 pm 
 

Americans seem to like innovators and things that are the lastest new thing. Slayer was a brand new thing back in the day. That’s why they are more popular there. Sabaton may do what they do very very well but the aren’t some kind of brand new idea or sound or trend. That’s why Americans like them less than Europeans. They, in contrast seem to just like anything that sounds really good in general. Doesn’t have to be a trend.

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MetlaNZ
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 4:46 pm 
 

des91 wrote:
Americans seem to like innovators and things that are the lastest new thing. Slayer was a brand new thing back in the day. That’s why they are more popular there. Sabaton may do what they do very very well but the aren’t some kind of brand new idea or sound or trend. That’s why Americans like them less than Europeans. They, in contrast seem to just like anything that sounds really good in general. Doesn’t have to be a trend.

Or maybe the Americans think Sabaton fuckin suck, and they'd be right.

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Spiner202
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 5:34 pm 
 

des91 wrote:
Americans seem to like innovators and things that are the lastest new thing. Slayer was a brand new thing back in the day. That’s why they are more popular there. Sabaton may do what they do very very well but the aren’t some kind of brand new idea or sound or trend. That’s why Americans like them less than Europeans. They, in contrast seem to just like anything that sounds really good in general. Doesn’t have to be a trend.


I'd attribute it more to North America's distaste towards power metal rather than basing it on originality. Some of the biggest Euro power bands (Avantasia, Helloween/Pumpkins United, and Blind Guardian) all draw far less in North America than in Europe. In fact, the first two of those three bands basically only do a handful of dates across the continent at a time, knowing that so many people will travel to see them that they can't sustain a full tour.

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des91
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 5:43 pm 
 

Hmm you may be right. Americans do t like Power Metal because it’s all nerdy and cheesy idk. Like it’s based on a lot of history and things (Power Metal) and maybe Americans don’t like to study and be educated on history lmao.

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Rodman
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 8:13 pm 
 

des91 wrote:
Hmm you may be right. Americans do t like Power Metal because it’s all nerdy and cheesy idk. Like it’s based on a lot of history and things (Power Metal) and maybe Americans don’t like to study and be educated on history lmao.


I think that the American metal community's historical aversion for Euro power metal has more to do with American culture's privileging of a certain ideal of masculinity, to which Euro power metal doesn't really align.

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des91
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 10:06 pm 
 

Rodman wrote:
I think that the American metal community's historical aversion for Euro power metal has more to do with American culture's privileging of a certain ideal of masculinity, to which Euro power metal doesn't really align.


Yeah that can of worms already was opened in either this or another thread not long ago so I won’t mess with that much. I do somewhat think you may be correct though. America is definitely not the only country with that culture though.

Anyways it’s weird since Power Metal is often singing about violence, just not graphically.

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collingwood77
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:40 pm 
 

I like the fact that this site can reject your reviews but not your postings.

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Kalaratri
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:39 pm 
 

Rodman wrote:
des91 wrote:
Hmm you may be right. Americans do t like Power Metal because it’s all nerdy and cheesy idk. Like it’s based on a lot of history and things (Power Metal) and maybe Americans don’t like to study and be educated on history lmao.


I think that the American metal community's historical aversion for Euro power metal has more to do with American culture's privileging of a certain ideal of masculinity, to which Euro power metal doesn't really align.


This is part of the reason, and I think in general it's still looked at in some circles as a bit of a joke. Speaking about the broader metal (or even music) community outside of those who are regular listeners of power metal, their exposure to Euro PM was mainly through stuff like having DragonForce on Guitar Hero, and that was treated more as a novelty where the interest wore off over time.

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Ace_Rimmer
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:03 am 
 

Well as someone who likes a lot of Europower metal some of it comes across as Disney music with double bass and a claim that there are guitars somewhere in that mess. Most of the Slayer, Megadeth, Pantera, Metallica, Overkill, etc, fans I've known find it to be comical. "Where is the power? "When does the metal actually start?" And a lot of it is kind of effeminate. However I think there is a diff between Sabaton and say Twilight Force.

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des91
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:10 am 
 

There is a lot of awesome power metal with aggression and guitar centric riffery. Blind Guardian is one of the best examples. They do have keyboards but they don’t forget about the riffs and speed. Gamma Ray as well. Many more.

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Ace_Rimmer
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:18 am 
 

des91 wrote:
There is a lot of awesome power metal with aggression and guitar centric riffery. Blind Guardian is one of the best examples. They do have keyboards but they don’t forget about the riffs and speed. Gamma Ray as well. Many more.


Quite right. I will play No World Order for people who want to hear power metal with Power and Metal. A lot of BG as well.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:46 am 
 

Ace_Rimmer wrote:
Well as someone who likes a lot of Europower metal some of it comes across as Disney music with double bass and a claim that there are guitars somewhere in that mess. Most of the Slayer, Megadeth, Pantera, Metallica, Overkill, etc, fans I've known find it to be comical. "Where is the power? "When does the metal actually start?" And a lot of it is kind of effeminate. However I think there is a diff between Sabaton and say Twilight Force.


Yeah I mean the appeal of good power metal in that vein (Excalion, older Dark Moor, Falconer, etc) is the way the bands just put together these super anthemic, uplifting, energizing sounds. It's a very different thing than what appeals to people who got into stuff like Metallica or Pantera. Metal ends up a very wide umbrella in that way.
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Frank Booth
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:22 pm 
 

Sabaton is definitely doing fine in the US, the mainstream metal/rock crowd loves them and they were selling out 1500-2000 cap rooms on their last headliner here. They'll probably top out at Lamb of God/Killswitch levels, i.e. a band that will headline huge clubs and theaters with one or two supports and can sometimes do small arenas with the right bill. Honestly, the next arena-level bands that I can see are Spiritbox and possibly Leprous, depending on whether the latter can sustain their growth over the past few years. Next big extreme headliners are, as someone else said, Lorna Shore (they almost sold out a 1000-cap room on this last headliner and sold shows out left and right), Slaughter to Prevail (if the numbers they're pulling in Europe are any indication), and possibly Rivers of Nihil, depending on how the new album goes over with crowds and how much success they have expanding into the prog world (which is clearly where they want to be). Brand of Sacrifice also has a solid shot at it, as does Shadow of Intent - it all depends on whether they can consistently pull large crowds after the first year or so as a headliner without having to do massive package or branded tours.

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Kyuashu
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:56 pm 
 

I can't see it happening, virtually no metal (or even -core) bands have managed to garner enough mainstream attention or interest and funding from major labels in about 10 years, and the latter is undeniably extremely important if you're trying to be a mainstream artist. Most of the bands named here are either way too old or nowhere near radio friendly enough to make it big, apart from I guess Sabaton who only really blew up in the last couple of years or so, and Sabaton's fanbase seemingly exclusively consists of 13-21 year old 'history nerds' who don't listen to metal or even care that much for music in general. Hopefully they'll be able to serve as a gateway band for years to come though. Powerwolf are also pretty big, but nowhere near mainstream.

On the -core side of things, bands like Slaughter to Prevail, Lorna Shore, Spiritbox, Fit For A King, Ice Nine Kills, Wage War and I Prevail are all fairly new bands, or bands that only became popular in the last couple of years, and they're all at around 500k-1.5 mil listeners on Spotify (with the exception of I Prevail who were at around 3 million last time I checked). Spiritbox released their debut album earlier this year and it peaked at #13 on Billboard. I haven't listened to it but it's supposedly quite poppy so I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up getting radio play and becoming as popular as Ghost.

Feel like the issue is that there are very few people who are passionate enough about genres such as Sabaton/Powerwolf styled power metal, Nightwishesque symphonic metal and A7X styled radio metal to the point where they decide they want to pick up an instrument and start making music, and outside of that kind of music and metalcore (which is no longer 'fresh' and thus no longer something kids would find as interesting as they did back in the day) metal has had virtually no mainstream presence since the 90s I guess? There have been a few exceptions since then, such as Lamb Of God, melodeath which was pretty big in Europe back in the 2000s and provided you count it as metal, deathcore was pretty big in the US in the late 00s and early 10s, Suicide Silence have like 4 million likes on Facebook and one of Whitechapel's albums peaked at #10 on Billboard. Pretty sure several of Thy Art Is Murder's albums broke into the top 10 in Australia as well. I really don't understand why deathcore's historically had so much major label support.
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Bingewolf
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:44 pm 
 

Americans (myself included) hate power metal... It's too cheesy... In America, the band that will rule is Slipknot until otherwise noted. There's a ton of bands who do really well - but if you're talking Marilyn Manson-level of headlining festivals and having a truly GIGANTIC audience. It's Slipknot for now.

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FLIPPITYFLOOP
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:55 pm 
 

Agreed with Slipknot, and I can see Ghost rising to that level too, especially because of how accessible their sound is - they're a hard rock and metal band that can actually appeal to the mainstream. They're already a main attraction at festivals like Heavy Montreal, so I think it'll only be a matter of time until they get booked for arenas on the regular.

And on the topic of Sabaton - I won't doubt that Sabaton's huge, especially in Europe, but I won't believe that they'll rise to that level until someone comes up with a catchphrase for them that gets as popular as "Fuckin' SLAYERRRRRRRRRR"

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Required Fields
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:47 am 
 

Well, Slipknot (they're not in the database, but whatever) are pretty much in the "been around forever" camp now (or close enough). Their debut came out in 1999. Plus, Ghost (who are listed in the database, albeit only on the basis of the debut) have become softer with every album.

I started this thread back in 2018, when Slayer announced their farewell tour. I also asked this question elsewhere, with the verdict basically being Slipknot, Avenged Sevenfold, Disturbed, and Five Finger Death Punch. None of whom are in the database here (yes, I know, if you want to be technical, Disturbed's previous incarnation, Brawl, have their demo listed here).

At the rate things are going, there's probably never going to be a proper metal band who even reaches Lamb of God's level of popularity ever again.
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Required Fields
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:57 am 
 

Kyuashu wrote:
I can't see it happening, virtually no metal (or even -core) bands have managed to garner enough mainstream attention or interest and funding from major labels in about 10 years, and the latter is undeniably extremely important if you're trying to be a mainstream artist. Most of the bands named here are either way too old or nowhere near radio friendly enough to make it big, apart from I guess Sabaton who only really blew up in the last couple of years or so, and Sabaton's fanbase seemingly exclusively consists of 13-21 year old 'history nerds' who don't listen to metal or even care that much for music in general. Hopefully they'll be able to serve as a gateway band for years to come though. Powerwolf are also pretty big, but nowhere near mainstream.

On the -core side of things, bands like Slaughter to Prevail, Lorna Shore, Spiritbox, Fit For A King, Ice Nine Kills, Wage War and I Prevail are all fairly new bands, or bands that only became popular in the last couple of years, and they're all at around 500k-1.5 mil listeners on Spotify (with the exception of I Prevail who were at around 3 million last time I checked). Spiritbox released their debut album earlier this year and it peaked at #13 on Billboard. I haven't listened to it but it's supposedly quite poppy so I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up getting radio play and becoming as popular as Ghost.

Feel like the issue is that there are very few people who are passionate enough about genres such as Sabaton/Powerwolf styled power metal, Nightwishesque symphonic metal and A7X styled radio metal to the point where they decide they want to pick up an instrument and start making music, and outside of that kind of music and metalcore (which is no longer 'fresh' and thus no longer something kids would find as interesting as they did back in the day) metal has had virtually no mainstream presence since the 90s I guess? There have been a few exceptions since then, such as Lamb Of God, melodeath which was pretty big in Europe back in the 2000s and provided you count it as metal, deathcore was pretty big in the US in the late 00s and early 10s, Suicide Silence have like 4 million likes on Facebook and one of Whitechapel's albums peaked at #10 on Billboard. Pretty sure several of Thy Art Is Murder's albums broke into the top 10 in Australia as well. I really don't understand why deathcore's historically had so much major label support.


Suicide Silence and Whitechapel have both pretty much fallen off a cliff. I don't listen to either band, so I just looked up info online.

Suicide Silence pretty much killed their careers a few years ago when they released an album almost unanimously hated by their fanbase. They released an album last year which didn't even register on Billboard's Top 200. (Their third most recent album peaked at #16, so that album really destroyed their career.)

Whitechapel had their 2014 release chart in the top 10. However, the next album peaked at #72, and the most recently released album peaked at #143. That's quite a drop.
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MorbidEarth
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:07 am 
 

Required Fields wrote:

Suicide Silence and Whitechapel have both pretty much fallen off a cliff. I don't listen to either band, so I just looked up info online.

Suicide Silence pretty much killed their careers a few years ago when they released an album almost unanimously hated by their fanbase. They released an album last year which didn't even register on Billboard's Top 200. (Their third most recent album peaked at #16, so that album really destroyed their career.)

Whitechapel had their 2014 release chart in the top 10. However, the next album peaked at #72, and the most recently released album peaked at #143. That's quite a drop.


Although I agree with your general point, it’s worth mentioning that at the time Whitechapel had their Top 10 album, the Billboard 200 was still a sales based chart as streaming numbers were not included at that time. However, in December 2014, Billboard updated their methodology to take streaming into account and since then, there has been a notable decline in rock and metal acts managing debuts on the Billboard 200 as these types of acts generally receive much lower streaming numbers than what they manage in physical sales.

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Frank Booth
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:18 am 
 

Suicide Silence was starting to fall off even back around the end of Mitch's life - they weren't able to do more than like 300 or 400 a night headlining (compared to what they were doing back around 2010) with a bill that wasn't either branded or a massive package tour by 2012 (people forget just how poorly The Black Crown went over with a lot of people), briefly got better when Eddie started, and then, yeah, they released that abortion and now they're either a direct support or barely drawing and at the point in their career where most of their supports are buy-ons because you only support them if you don't have any other good tour offers. Whitechapel is doing a little better, but they also aren't drawing what they used to unless they're, again, doing branded tours, massive package runs, or full-album runs, and it's my understanding that only their full-album runs still pull their 2010-2012 numbers (and they're also starting to solicit buy-ons, which is, again, one of the clearest "over the hill" indicators there is).

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acid_bukkake
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:52 am 
 

Y'all sleeping on the Black Dahlia Murder, whose last album debuted at #4 on Billboard last year. If we're talking "big deal," they're low key one of the biggest acts in the genre State-side.
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MorbidEarth
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:26 am 
 

acid_bukkake wrote:
Y'all sleeping on the Black Dahlia Murder, whose last album debuted at #4 on Billboard last year. If we're talking "big deal," they're low key one of the biggest acts in the genre State-side.


That’s the Top Albums Chart where they managed to achieve that as stated in the article. That chart ranks albums by actual sales only. On the Billboard 200, they debuted at No.99.

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Frank Booth
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:32 am 
 

TBDM is where they're going to be until they retire. Like Cannibal and Behemoth, they're well-established fixtures at this point. They make their money live and this past headliner was definitely a moneymaker based off of the numbers they pulled.

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Required Fields
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:54 pm 
 

Frank Booth wrote:
TBDM is where they're going to be until they retire. Like Cannibal and Behemoth, they're well-established fixtures at this point. They make their money live and this past headliner was definitely a moneymaker based off of the numbers they pulled.


That's the same thing I was saying about people who've brought up Gojira and Amon Amarth in terms of the question asked in my original post when I asked elsewhere.

Everyone in Gojira is in their 40s now, and their debut was released in 2001. They're not going to get any bigger than they already have, and the biggest venues they've played at in North America are the biggest venues they're going to play (at least as a headlining act).

Amon Amarth released their debut in 1998, so they aren't going to play any bigger venues than the ones they've already played, nor will they get any bigger.

I guess this applies for TBDM as well. The position they're in now is the one they'll remain in until they break up.
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Required Fields
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:06 pm 
 

MorbidEarth wrote:
Required Fields wrote:

Suicide Silence and Whitechapel have both pretty much fallen off a cliff. I don't listen to either band, so I just looked up info online.

Suicide Silence pretty much killed their careers a few years ago when they released an album almost unanimously hated by their fanbase. They released an album last year which didn't even register on Billboard's Top 200. (Their third most recent album peaked at #16, so that album really destroyed their career.)

Whitechapel had their 2014 release chart in the top 10. However, the next album peaked at #72, and the most recently released album peaked at #143. That's quite a drop.


Although I agree with your general point, it’s worth mentioning that at the time Whitechapel had their Top 10 album, the Billboard 200 was still a sales based chart as streaming numbers were not included at that time. However, in December 2014, Billboard updated their methodology to take streaming into account and since then, there has been a notable decline in rock and metal acts managing debuts on the Billboard 200 as these types of acts generally receive much lower streaming numbers than what they manage in physical sales.


Interesting point.

Overkill's 2014 album, White Devil Armory, actually debuted at #31 of the Billboard Top 200 albums, the highest charting album of theirs ever. The Grinding Wheel debuted at #69, and The Wings of War debuted at #158. Quite a drop, but the methodology you mentioned explains a good part of that.

Testament's 2010s era albums had the highest debuts of their career, both debuting in the Top 20 of the Billboard Top 200. However, their 2020 release only debuted at #96.
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Frank Booth
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:53 am 
 

Testament, Overkill, Cannibal, and TBDM all tend to attract lots of older fans (TBDM's are younger, but their a lot of longtime fans are in their late thirties at the bare minimum at this point, especially the OGs), and older fans tend to buy physical media far more readily.

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