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Abominatrix
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:17 pm 
 

What a question. Albums are as long as they artists want them to be. Maybe you should ask them if they really consider those "filler" songs to be filler. Nobody's forcing you to listen to the entire thing in one go, but as a musician, you want people to have the album experience, and everything is (hopefully, bar mishaps and mistakes) exactly where it needs to be on that album. As the listener, you can take it or leave it.
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Draehl
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Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:13 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:34 pm 
 

Generally I'm a fan of longer albums. More often than not particular tracks drag on too long. A combo of the two would have to be Vektor's Terminal Redux. The last two tracks drag a bit in relation to the overall pace of the album.

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~Guest 226319
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Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:50 pm 
 

Abominatrix wrote:
What a question. Albums are as long as they artists want them to be. Maybe you should ask them if they really consider those "filler" songs to be filler. Nobody's forcing you to listen to the entire thing in one go, but as a musician, you want people to have the album experience, and everything is (hopefully, bar mishaps and mistakes) exactly where it needs to be on that album. As the listener, you can take it or leave it.

Maybe all music is beyond criticism because whatever ended up on the CD must necessarily have been what the artist intended it to be.

Maybe, as was pointed out earlier in the thread, in days of yore, factors like cost of studio time and executive meddling forced bands to be more aggressive both in honing their material and trimming the fat, and the result was shorter albums.

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Abominatrix
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:43 pm 
 

Even though I'm increasingly wary of music criticism/critics, I don't believe all music is beyond criticism, no. However, I think a part of taking on an appreciation for an artist's work is accepting their decisions about how that work should be presented. So yes, on my favourite albums from my favourite bands, i don't really lhink a note (or track) is out of place or doesn't belong there. There are albums I like but which I don't feel so strongly about, but I imagine, hope, that the band feels differently, and I just am not fully on board with them -- and that's fine.

It is true that a single LP length used to be the limit for many bands. It's also true that longstanding "career" bands used to put out albums more quickly. Sometimes two or three a year. Of course none of this discussion really factors in one-guy-and-a-computer projects (some of which can be found on this site) that release every experiment they record to the internet public. But it's hard to write songs; hard to perform them as a band; and even today, it can be a real challenge to record them. I'd hazard a guess that very few artists except the most cynical just put stuff out there to fill space and time with inferior work. Again, if you're not happy with it, there's always that forward button.
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TheMysticWombat
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:24 pm 
 

The only time I would agree with OP is with stoner metal and drone, the latter being such a shit genre and I've even given sunn O))) a chance live. I would gladly take any recs for good drone.

One album I can always listen to start to finish is Tribulation's "The Formulas of Death" which is 01:15:48 long. Absolutely flows from start to finish and I wish they could play the whole thing live one day.

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ManAtArms
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:22 am
Posts: 51
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:17 am 
 

Wilytank wrote:
ManAtArms wrote:
Just for the fun, I do sometimes imagine how 50-79 minute-releases would look like if we still would be in the pre-digital vinyl-age. What tracks they would leave out, what track starts the b-side, etc.

We've had those albums actually. Prog rock and electronic artists back in those days still had a habit of writing multiple massive songs so they often released double vinyl albums. Here's a couple of the most extreme examples.

https://www.discogs.com/Klaus-Schulze-C ... ase/219771

https://www.discogs.com/Yes-Tales-From- ... ase/476248



Yes, I know but i think of metal-bands. And how many of them had the budget to do a double-album in the 80ies? So I always imagine how the band would have to cut their material to getting out one vinyl-disc. Just for fun.

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severzhavnost
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:06 pm 
 

Albums too long? Feck! If I'm forking over $20 and up for a CD, I'd better be getting at least 45 minutes of music.
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ohfuck
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:17 pm 
 

It depends on the band and the genre. As a big fan of grindcore, I find in the last 10+ years bands are focused more on smaller shorter releases than putting out a solid 30+ minute album. But I would like a black metal album to be around 40+ minutes (depending on the specific style). If something is enjoyable it tends to go by fast. I will gladly listen to a shorter grindcore or death metal album three times over then have to sit through Dopesmoker once.
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Tornado
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:06 am 
 

I would say, quite often, yes they are. Vinyl can hold approximately 50 minutes of music, while CD's about 75 minutes. And bands seem to think they need to fill the entire CD with songs. Quantity not quality in many cases. I'd much rather listen to an 8 to 10 track album with a running time of 35 to 45 minutes than a 14 track album with 70 minutes of music. Because chances are that not all 14 of those tracks are going to be great. Some may be clear fillers. Sure, you can skip the one's you don't like, but if everyone is skipping the same tracks and the band never plays those tracks live, then why put them on the album in the first place if they're that unpopular? If a band has written 15 tracks, pick the best 10 for the album and release the others as B-sides to singles.

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exsiccation
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2016 9:49 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:12 am 
 

I will take an amazing 30 minute album over a boring 60 minute one. Usually, the faster and more intense the music, the shorter the runtime is required to explore its ideas.

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Osmiumthemetal
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 10:30 pm
Posts: 88
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:06 pm 
 

John_Sunlight wrote:
Just for fun, what are some great albums under 30 minutes long (35 if you can't think of any *that* short)? I can think of: "Reign in Blood" "Legion" "Horrified" "Orkblut The Retaliation" "Pentagram" "Antichrist".

First Suicidal Tendencies, first Bathory, SOD's Speak English or Die, GISM's Detestation are under 30 minutes.
Rorschach's Remain Sedate, DRI's Dealing With it, Crumbsucker's Life of Dreams, Excel's Split Image, Whiplash's Power and Pain, Cryptic Sluaghter's Money Talks, Witchfinder General's Death Penalty, Saint Vitus' Hallows Victim and Born Too Late are under 35 minutes. Probably plenty of others I can't think of right now.

Also Black Sabbath's Master of Reality is under 35 minutes.

Anyway this doesn't seem to be a popular opinion but I'm not much a fan of long albums at all. Maiden's Powerslave is honestly pushing it for me at 50 minutes. Really depends on the genre though. The average hardcore record is way shorter than a doom metal record and that's because they're going for different things. The only time I really tolerate a really long record (really long for me is basically anything around an hour or over) is if it's old school prog or experimental rock.

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Woutjinho
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 1:28 pm
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:56 pm 
 

Disgorge - Cranial Impalement
Gutalax - Shit Beast
Haemophagia - From Sickness to Cult
Municipal Waste - Hazardous Mutation

To name a few incredible albums under half an hour. I prefer shorter albums. I listened to Master of Puppets since years today in the car and it's way too long. Too many skippable songs and a dozen couplets per song. Just too much.
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Ace_Rimmer
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:30 am
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:08 pm 
 

if it won't fit on a single vinyl it probably needs trimming. So much crap would have been trimmed, or put off until the next album when it could get more work to fix it. 40 minutes is perfect. There are exceptions of course.

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ChineseDownhill
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:21 pm 
 

Recently listened to two albums whose running times differ by only about one minute, where one album feels way too long while the other doesn't.

Insomnium's In the Halls of Awaiting is 10 songs, 55 minutes, and I wouldn't call it too long since all but 2 songs are a reasonable 4 - 5 minutes and no song feels like obvious filler.

On the other hand I tried getting into SepticFlesh with Sumerian Daemons which is 13 tracks and 56 minutes. The album starts out great, with an intro that sets the stage, a good first proper song, and songs #3 and #4 are excellent. But no matter how many chances I gave it, none of the songs from #5 through #13 measured up to those first few. (I guess Magic Loves Infinity came closest.)

I think those are the factors most likely to produce an album that feels too long: a dozen or more tracks, a running time near an hour, and the best songs mostly near the beginning.
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pale_horse
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:46 am 
 

80 minutes is a monstrosity. Only a fabulous band can pull off a solid 40 minutes. I love Nile but they're out of their minds if they think I want to sit there and listen to that sound for an hour and a half.
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pale_horse
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:49 am 
 

Also bonus tracks are an abomination against all sensibility. This is like stapling some rough sketches to the bottom of a painting.
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Rocka_Rollas
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:43 am 
 

StryckenFromHistory wrote:
John_Sunlight wrote:
Just for fun, what are some great albums under 30 minutes long (35 if you can't think of any *that* short)?

Spoiler: show
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


Since when did EPs count as albums? Especially the Shitlickers one which is like 8 songs at about 7 minutes total (4 songs first EP at about 4 minutes...
4 songs second EP at about 6 minutes or so)

Moderat Likvidation EP is 6 songs at 16 minutes (thats a fucking lot for a 7", especially since Discharge "Why" is a 12" and SHORTER, like 14-15 minutes only :lol: )
Youtube: show

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Rocka_Rollas
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:52 am 
 

pale_horse wrote:
Also bonus tracks are an abomination against all sensibility. This is like stapling some rough sketches to the bottom of a painting.


Not when the bonus tracks somehow manages to be ever more fucking awesome than some of the actual album songs.

Running Wilds "Pile Of Skull" comes to mind.

This song rules:
Youtube: show


And "Win Or Be Drowned" is also a good song!

And I'm amazed that they did never include this asskicker of a song:
Youtube: show

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pfk505
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:00 am 
 

Generally I think the answer is yes, they are. But I think for me a big part of the reason is that I listen almost exclusively to full albums rather than cherry picking songs, and have found more often than not that the 50-70 minute albums are padded with filler. Albums in the 30-45 minute range are generally preferable to me as they tend to be tighter and more focused.

That said, there are longer albums which I love and for which time passes by very quickly due to the quality of the music, that's just much harder to pull off.

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pale_horse
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:54 am 
 

Rocka_Rollas wrote:
pale_horse wrote:
Also bonus tracks are an abomination against all sensibility. This is like stapling some rough sketches to the bottom of a painting.


Not when the bonus tracks somehow manages to be ever more fucking awesome than some of the actual album songs.

Running Wilds "Pile Of Skull" comes to mind.

This song rules:
Youtube: show


And "Win Or Be Drowned" is also a good song!

And I'm amazed that they did never include this asskicker of a song:
Youtube: show


Creatively it is not part of the album.
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at the gaytes
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Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:07 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:35 pm 
 

Extreme metal shouldn't pass the 40 minutes mark. There's no fucking way to stuff like The Great Execution, Dechristianize and Obscura to maintain a consistent quality for an entire hour.

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Element_man
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Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2005 2:37 am
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Location: Vancouver, Canada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:40 pm 
 

I personally don't care to listen to the same band for much longer than 45 mins, unless it's maybe a live or greatest hits album from one of my favorite groups.
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ModusOperandi
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:52 pm 
 

I’ve seen a good number of albums over the last few years from smaller and far lesser known bands across several genres (not just brutal death and slam and grind) release full-lengths under 30 minutes and sometimes well under that runtime while still having very noticeable filler. The pendulum can and does swing in both directions.
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Stronthor
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:23 pm 
 

So apparently the new Necros Christos album is going to be a lengthy fucker. Subtract the Gate and Temple tracks and you'll still end up with roughly 1.5 hours of music. Don't get me wrong, I love everything these guys have done so far and I get that they want to do something special as this will be their last album, but I feel like this might be a little too much.

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pale_horse
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:10 am 
 

Warty_basaloid wrote:
If albums are too long then maybe you're too short.

Your attention span, not the rapper.

I've heard it said that your attention span is not more than double your age. With that said, I guess my attention span is about 15 years younger than I am!
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exsiccation
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Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2016 9:49 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:16 pm 
 

pale_horse wrote:
Also bonus tracks are an abomination against all sensibility. This is like stapling some rough sketches to the bottom of a painting.

Depends. Some bonus tracks can legitimately flesh out an album. But the trend of throwing some random (often poorly recorded) live tracks at the end of an album, a bunch of B-sides from another EP, etc., tends to drag things down for me. It feels like a relic from the CD era where they are trying to add value to the purchase. I pretty much always skip over those tracks.

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gabber
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Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:57 pm
Posts: 397
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:24 pm 
 

It's always odd when people say they like an album but it's 'too long'.

I mean, if it's that good wouldn't you want it to not end?
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Wilytank
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Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:21 am
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:18 pm 
 

Stronthor wrote:
So apparently the new Necros Christos album is going to be a lengthy fucker. Subtract the Gate and Temple tracks and you'll still end up with roughly 1.5 hours of music. Don't get me wrong, I love everything these guys have done so far and I get that they want to do something special as this will be their last album, but I feel like this might be a little too much.

:ugh: This band goes way too overboard with their fucking interludes. Even a 2CD release with like 40 minutes each would be more listenable than this.
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BasqueStorm
Metal freak

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 2:21 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:06 am 
 

exsiccation wrote:
pale_horse wrote:
Also bonus tracks are an abomination against all sensibility. This is like stapling some rough sketches to the bottom of a painting.

Depends. Some bonus tracks can legitimately flesh out an album. But the trend of throwing some random (often poorly recorded) live tracks at the end of an album, a bunch of B-sides from another EP, etc., tends to drag things down for me. It feels like a relic from the CD era where they are trying to add value to the purchase. I pretty much always skip over those tracks.

+1. And demo tracks. :scratch:

Usually... :nono:

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MetallicaTrueFan
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:23 pm
Posts: 479
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:08 pm 
 

I wonder if bonus tracks should be counted... they can easily bump a 45 minute album up to an hour. Symphony X's Iconoclast got bumped up to a double album if you include the special edition bonus tracks and that album was pretty long.
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ModusOperandi
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:05 pm 
 

^ Those aren’t really bonus tracks in the traditional sense, though. That version is what the band always intended the album to be and allowed a truncated version to appease the label, which hardly made a difference because why only have this much music when you could have THIS much (and a more complete listening experience) for a slightly higher price? That’s my favorite SX album however, so take my opinion with a grain or two of salt.

I’m reminded of Jerry Cantrell’s “Degradation Trip” and how it was released as both a single and eventual double album as intended (and was a triple album in the very early, embryonic writing stages,) with the “extra” songs strung throughout in sequence instead of all of them tacked on at the end or in a bonus disc. A work of art as far as I’m concerned.
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Gunslinger21
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:47 am 
 

I generally prefer a 50+ minute album because I like to sit through my albums for quite a while, but then again I don't really judge albums on length, more on the quality of the instrumentation.

I don't think albums are too long, not for my personal taste anyway. I was recently listening to Blood Oath by Suffocation in the gym, and by the time the album was over that time had just flown by anyway, and that's a medium sized album. I'd say no. Unless you are talking about stuff like Sun O)))) where they play a chord and just let it ring for a whole five minutes, that is overkill.

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Ace_Rimmer
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:30 am
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:52 am 
 

In general my limit for blasty shit is about a half hour, so I rarely go past that with DM albums. Litany by Vader is prefect in that regard. But even that is hard to work though entirely because...production is a huge key! If its harsh and loud with no dynamics my limit is more like 3-4 songs usually then I'm reaching for the button to put something else on. Records that breathe pass the time much better than a distorted loud mess.

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Malefikant
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Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:48 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:54 pm 
 

Cynical wrote:
John_Sunlight wrote:
Just for fun, what are some great albums under 30 minutes long (35 if you can't think of any *that* short)? I can think of: "Reign in Blood" "Legion" "Horrified" "Orkblut The Retaliation" "Pentagram" "Antichrist".

"Torl Cormpt Norz Norz Norz". Under the 35 minute bar, there's "O Agios Pethane".


The first Bathory is 27min (incl. intro/outro). And no one ever protested.

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Runko
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Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:38 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:04 pm 
 

Ace_Rimmer wrote:
if it won't fit on a single vinyl it probably needs trimming.


This is the only answer.

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ObservationSlave
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Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:27 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:22 pm 
 

gabber wrote:
It's always odd when people say they like an album but it's 'too long'.

I mean, if it's that good wouldn't you want it to not end?


I think in many cases where people say that they feel as if the album has 40 minutes (just picking numbers for the example) worth of great material and another 10-15 of okay material. All in all it is still a great album, but could use a bit of trimming.

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Wrldeatr
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:41 pm 
 

I think so. Back when I was young I remember being annoyed that Deicide's Legion was so damn short. But that was when Death Metal was starting, when I had just gotten a CD player, not to mention that the album is brilliant. Now I download a bunch of albums every year. I look at the list on my media player, so many albums kids are cranking out these days have 12, 13 songs and usually halfway through I'm switching to something else. I figure back when record labels and producers had a say some stuff just didn't make it, now it seems there's no filter and everything ends up being released. Just give me 8 great songs, 40 minutes total and I'm good.

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Schmengie
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:45 am 
 

Rocka_Rollas wrote:
Not when the bonus tracks somehow manages to be ever more fucking awesome than some of the actual album songs.

To expand upon this, some bands take the opportunity afforded by bonus tracks to come out with some unexpectedly good experiments.

My favourite examples of this are "The Absolute" and "Time Out of Place" from Dark Tranquillity's Atoma. Some might balk at me for this—I say that you've been complaining about the band being on auto-pilot for years anyway, so fuck it—but I realised upon hearing them that I would be very okay with Dark Tranquillity becoming a gothic/synth/dark wave act. It's about time Stanne gave us more of his beautiful cleans and that kind of music would certainly suite them (or vice-versa).

To also expand on the subject of the OP and my previous answer to it, I would point out that some forms of (metal) music are naturally suited to longer albums. Doom and post-metal are the obvious citations. It's not impossible to shorten them but I think they're most often in their element when they're hitting the fifty- to sixty-minute mark.
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willBburied
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Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:19 pm
Posts: 33
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:16 am 
 

John_Sunlight wrote:
Just for fun, what are some great albums under 30 minutes long (35 if you can't think of any *that* short)? I can think of: "Reign in Blood" "Legion" "Horrified" "Orkblut The Retaliation" "Pentagram" "Antichrist".

Bathorys debut album obviously

Yeah I think that an album is too long if you have trouble listening it in one sitting.
And the CD format did kinda ruin albums. Bands should just realize it's quality over quantitity.

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PaganiusI
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:34 am 
 

If the music is great, I don't care about the length. The current Fjoergyn album is over an hour long, but filled with enough greatness to please me for the rest of my live. Or let's take a look at Midnight Odyssey. "Shards of a Silver Fade" has a total length of 2h20. 8 songs, 2 discs. Sure that's not the right music for driving or stuff, but the Ambient Black Metal of this giy is really intense and fits very well to a day of meditation or just fade into some sort of limbo.

On the other hand, I never liked Slayer despite their short albums, so it's (as always) a preference thingy.
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