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kluseba
Making Metal Archives Reviews Great Again!

Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:36 am
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Location: Germany
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:35 pm 
 

If you haven't lived under a rock, you have certainly heard of German gothic metal veterans Crematory before. The band has been around since the early nineties and has released thirteen studio albums so far. A fourteenth full length entitled Oblivion is going to be released next month. A few days ago, band leader and drummer Markus Jüllich has released the following statement in English and German on the band's Facebook page:

Quote:
The end of CREMATORY? Will „Oblivion“ be the last studio album and the tour in May the final one?

CREMATORY´s new studio album „Oblivion“ will be released on friday, the 13.4.2018. We were planning to promote the album with a tour, starting at the 27.4.18 and running through all of May in Germany.

That will only happen, have you fans get off your lazy asses and start buying tickets for the announced shows. The presales are horrible and we will cancel the tour completely, if the numbers don´t increase radically.

The most important thing is, that you buy our new CD and double vinyl edition, cause when I look at our sales statistics I could start throwing up! Nowadays we are selling way more downloads and streams then we sell the original products, and this will be the death for all bands, cause you hardly get any money from this shit compared to the CD compensation. So as a matter of fact, a band will hardly make enough money to put a good sounding album on the market.

The worst is, that streaming on itunes, spotify, deezer, napster and all the other bullshit platforms doesn´t pay out for the band at all. Our last album „Monument“ had 1,5 million streams and we don´t even sell 1% of that in original vinyl or CD products.

This can´t go on like this anymore! Its not only CREMATORY who is suffering from all that, but only we have the balls to stand up and tell you the truth. Wake up you Metalheads and start honoring the value of real music and come back to buying the products. We don´t want music just getting wasted and being stored on harddrives, usb-sticks, sd cards in miserable mp3 quality.

We hope you understand how important that is to us. Because of this, we will give you something special with the new album „Oblivion“, so you think twice before you buy the shitty download or the even worse stream.

Every CD and vinyl LP comes with a 10 € merchandise voucher, that you can use on our concerts, or in our merchandise-shop at the CREMATORY website. That makes every CD or LP including the voucher even cheaper than a download and you get a great digipack with booklet, lyrics, pictures and poster.

So, please dear fans, buy CD´s and LP´s and forget the downloads, cause otherwise there won´t be another CREMATORY album. Don´t make „Oblivion“ the final album and give us your support on the tour. Start buying tickets now, so we can have great shows together. Even after 27 years of CREMATORY we are still hungry to keep going, but all that is in your hands.

Believe in you and especially in CREMATORY! Markus Jüllich


The reactions to this post have been quite controversial. Several people called the band leader a crybaby, felt insulted by being called lazy and suggested the band to utilize the internet to their own advantage, release better music and lower its concert ticket prices. Others have voiced their support for the veterans, claiming that the financial issues Crematory has are shared by many other bands, congratulating the band on its honesty to deal with the difficult topic and stating that fifteen bucks for a new album and thirty bucks for a concert are indeed very reasonable.

Since Crematory isn't the only band with those issues these days, I was wondering what your opinion on the matter is. Is the band stuck in the past, overreacting here and should adapt to the changes in the music industry or does Crematory have a valid point claiming that fans should support bands more financially, that the current technological changes don't need to be followed but reversed and that a wake-up call is overdue to support artists and musicians these days?

Personally, I tend to agree with the band but before I go any further, I would like to read what other metal fans think about this topic.
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rexxz
Where's your band?

Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:45 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:41 pm 
 

This is the wrong way to do it. His reaction is emotional and self-pitying. If they aren't getting as much success as he'd hoped, they should try something other than crying about it on the internet.
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DoomMetalAlchemist
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Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:10 am
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:56 pm 
 

What a douche. I understand what he's saying, but insulting your fans is not the way to get them to rally around you.

Not to mention in the era of ILLEGAL downloading he's pitching a hissy-fit about PAID downloading and streaming. He should consider himself lucky that people are willing to pay at all instead of pirate.

Having that said, he does have a point, but he could have and should have been far more tactful than insulting certain people who PAY for his music, or people who for whatever reason aren't buying concert tickets.

FURTHERMORE, if you're really that against your music being downloaded/streamed legally, then take your music off of those services so that's no long an option.

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raumr
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Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:11 pm
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Location: Norway
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:58 pm 
 

Lashing out or pointing fingers at your own fans is never a good idea, but I do feel sympathy. The business is changing, and many bands don't know how to "make it" anymore. I don't know what the solution is. I think a model like Bandcamp has potential.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:05 pm 
 

Seems like Spotify and other streaming services aren't so good for bands' bottom lines... it's definitely something worth talking about. It's technology moving for convenience, but it sucks that it isn't really helping the artists. I'll have to do more research on the profits of it.

Honestly it isn't like German gothic metal is going to be a cash cow though. It's always going to be an uphill battle making a living off art. Either figure out some creative way to go about it or get other ways of making a living and do music as a creative outlet and make what you can. Shouting at your fans and bitching won't do anything.
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rexxz
Where's your band?

Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:45 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:07 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Seems like Spotify and other streaming services aren't so good for bands' bottom lines... it's definitely something worth talking about. It's technology moving for convenience, but it sucks that it isn't really helping the artists. I'll have to do more research on the profits of it.



This isn't true. With just one popular playlist, you can be hitting 20-50k streams a month which can be a few hundred dollars of free income. And that's just from a single playlist. I personally know individual producers who hit more than that, and they aren't even that big of names.
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into_the_pit
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Location: Hedonist Occupation Government
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:13 pm 
 

seriously, fuck crematory! their music sucks, they've always been a shit band, and apparently they're crybabies too who don't know how to utilize the internet to their advantage. I hope they cancel their upcoming shows and disband soon.
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Everflowingstream
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Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:29 am
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:15 pm 
 

I probably agree with most of what he has said, just he needed to articulate it a bit better and be more diplomatic. I wonder if the German post reads in a similar manner.

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ModusOperandi
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Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 12:52 am
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:50 pm 
 

It’s not like there’s tens of thousands of Crematory fans out there, are there? All of them acquiring their music through whatever means and not paying, all of them thinking they got one over on the industry? Most of the time when they come up in conversation is only regarding their early albums, so the fact that only NOW they feel like they’re getting short-shrifted, or that it’s reached some kind of breaking point, is probably better than they’ve deserved. Maybe I’m wrong and that’s perfectly fine, but I’d hardly consider them a pillar, even for what they’ve been doing.

Once again, more bands making more music available than ever, but people only have so much disposable income to go around. That’s just reality. Not every band is going to be supported equally at the same time, and those with diminishing returns and/or a style that simply isn’t as popular as it was will always be the first to fall by the wayside.
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DecemberSoul
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:57 pm 
 

That post might hurt them more than do any good. Not only are long time fans and potential new ones looking into them probably turned off by it, it may be the same for those who haven't cared about them so far, again because of how hostile and unreflected that message is. To me, they were always just the band who shouldn't share the name with the great Swedish Crematory. Certainly, I am not bothered to check them out now. Reading them ramble about the "market" makes me think that unless you're world class musicians and composers, you're probably better off just doing it for the fun of it and have an income via a regular job.

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Metallumz
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Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:02 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:55 pm 
 

Maybe i'm just looking at this from a sales-pitch viewpoint but wouldn't it be more beneficial for Crematory to do the shows 'free of charge' so to speak, but the catch is that merch has to be paid for on the door. In that way they're killing two birds with one stone in getting new people into the venues, aswell as covering costs.

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schizoid
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:35 am
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:27 pm 
 

Metallumz wrote:
Maybe i'm just looking at this from a sales-pitch viewpoint but wouldn't it be more beneficial for Crematory to do the shows 'free of charge' so to speak, but the catch is that merch has to be paid for on the door. In that way they're killing two birds with one stone in getting new people into the venues, aswell as covering costs.


What? You mean to get into the show you need to buy a shirt or CD or some other tat before you enter the door?
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t1337Dude
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:41 pm 
 

If any band sold 1% of what they streamed, they would be bathing in cash. The benefits of having your music on streaming services isn't just about direct sales, but exposure and accessibility. You'd want as many people to hear your music as possible, even if it's for free, because you will have a hard time creating a potential customer otherwise. Every metal head I personally know buys the merch and music of bands they really want to support, so it's hard for me to agree with his assumption about metal heads aren't buying music.

Honestly - I'm not sure I've even heard of this band before, so it's also hard for me to agree with the idea that their band already has plenty of fans, but the issue is they simply are lazy and don't buy music. I suspect they're overrating their own popularity.

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Pitiless Wanderer
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:07 pm 
 

The thing I don't get about downloading, probably because I've never sat down and thought it through or studied it, is why exactly some bands not only survive but continue to thrive in the age of digital streaming, while others like this band cry foul. It would appear to be simply survival of the fittest; sort of a musical darwinism. What's the deal?

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rexxz
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:46 pm 
 

The deal is some people know how to do it and others don't. There's a huge amount of factors. You need excellent music first and foremost; but that isn't enough. There's endless amounts of great music out there, so you need to differentiate yourself amongst your peers and get people to care about what you do. Part of that is defining your micro-niche identity, branding and marketing. Another part is leveraging social media and learning how to target potential fans through those platforms. It takes time, effort and energy, and not many indies out there are able or willing to figure it out and put a plan into action.
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Zodijackyl
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:52 pm 
 

I don't think this about the state of the industry. If people aren't buying your albums or tickets to your shows, it's because they don't care about your music. They don't owe it to you. Tenure isn't a concept that applies to bands. Getting to this point after 14 years is more likely a sign that they've worn out their welcome. Personally, I've stopped bothering with most bands of this longevity who crank out an album every two years. It has been a dominant trend amongst bands/labels, especially in the last decade, and the releases are no more than unlistened clutter in a collection. I think we are all sympathetic to career musicians trying to make a living, but that doesn't appear to be the case here. The dozen tour dates didn't sell because people don't want to see them.

I checked out their new stuff, hoping for some good gothic metal - turns out the presales are just like the music and visuals - horrible! :lol: This is unbelievably bad.

Youtube: show


Youtube: show

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Wilytank
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Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:21 am
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:54 pm 
 

Quote:

This can´t go on like this anymore! Its not only CREMATORY who is suffering from all that, but only we have the balls to stand up and tell you the truth. Wake up you Metalheads and start honoring the value of real music and come back to buying the products. We don´t want music just getting wasted and being stored on harddrives, usb-sticks, sd cards in miserable mp3 quality.

We hope you understand how important that is to us. Because of this, we will give you something special with the new album „Oblivion“, so you think twice before you buy the shitty download or the even worse stream.

Fuck you. Fuck. You.

And here's why. Normally, I ignore audiophiles and all their noise because as long as something doesn't sound compressed to hell I can't tell the difference between a 320 kbps mp3 or a FLAC anyway, but formats like those exist for a reason. Those digital files are only as shitty as the formats you're going to make them available on. That's one of the reasons why both consumers and bands alike have been singing praises for Bandcamp. Unlike Amazon or iTunes, you can actually choose which kind of format you want to download. Also, though labels run some of the pages, many of the Bandcamp pages are run by the bands themselves separate from the label and the site only takes 15% of the revenue. So arguing sound quality is ignorant.

Pitiless Wanderer wrote:
The thing I don't get about downloading, probably because I've never sat down and thought it through or studied it, is why exactly some bands not only survive but continue to thrive in the age of digital streaming, while others like this band cry foul. It would appear to be simply survival of the fittest; sort of a musical darwinism. What's the deal?

I know Bandcamp isn't the only example, but ever notice how bands signed to big labels like Steamhammer, Century Media, Nuclear Blast, etc don't have their own Bandcamp page?
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HideYourHole
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:30 am 
 

Zodijackyl wrote:
I don't think this about the state of the industry. If people aren't buying your albums or tickets to your shows, it's because they don't care about your music. They don't owe it to you. Tenure isn't a concept that applies to bands. Getting to this point after 14 years is more likely a sign that they've worn out their welcome. Personally, I've stopped bothering with most bands of this longevity who crank out an album every two years. It has been a dominant trend amongst bands/labels, especially in the last decade, and the releases are no more than unlistened clutter in a collection. I think we are all sympathetic to career musicians trying to make a living, but that doesn't appear to be the case here. The dozen tour dates didn't sell because people don't want to see them.

I checked out their new stuff, hoping for some good gothic metal - turns out the presales are just like the music and visuals - horrible! :lol: This is unbelievably bad.

Youtube: show


Youtube: show


:lol: That must be what these guys were really listening to
Youtube: show

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lost_wanderer
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Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 4:59 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:17 am 
 

They will soon fall into Oblivion.
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blackmantram
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:54 am 
 

Zodijackyl wrote:
I checked out their new stuff, hoping for some good gothic metal - turns out the presales are just like the music and visuals - horrible! :lol: This is unbelievably bad.

Youtube: show


Youtube: show


The last one is a Depeche Mode cover, and the fact that they made a video clip means they attempted to cash in on it. This seems to me like this band is just trying hard to live off music and they are failing miserably, thus, their childish rant.


Last edited by blackmantram on Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Helvede
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:57 am 
 

Their time is just over. They've been putting out mediocre albums like forever with too short time in between, and it is only in Germany there was a scene for this genre. Atrocity had better succes at this. Later this year I'll be going to Killtown festival, and there will be sold tons of cds, vinyls, tapes, merch.

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kluseba
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Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:36 am
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:22 am 
 

This topic deserves a differentiated comment. First of all, it's understandable that it's frustrating for artists who have put so much creativity, passion and time into their project for nearly three decades to lose money every year, sell less copies of their art and see less people attend their shows. I can perfectly understand the drummer's point of view. Since I have known the band half of my life, seen the band in concert three times and bought most of their records, I don't take the message personally at all. My father or I are still going to buy the new album and if the band plays close to my hometown when I'm going to be in Germany, I will attend the concert, no matter if it costs thirty bucks or more. The band usually plays far over two hours, talks to fans after the show and offers a memorable experience. I know Crematory won't disappoint as they offer value for money.

However, the drummer's cry for help won't change anything and those who already didn't like the band or were neutral won't be tempted to support the band now. Some hot-tempered fans might even turn their backs on the band as a consequence. What was meant to wake up people could actually become the final nail in the coffin because it offended people. A quick look at the band's Facebook page shows that about two thirds of the reactions are negative. The positive thing is that people are now discussing the future of the music industry but nobody will be talking about Crematory anymore in a few weeks. Releasing such comments is indeed honest, liberating and straight-forward but the long-term consequences only make things worse.

The fans are not to blame for the group's financial problems anyway. Prices for records, merchandise and concert have constantly risen over the past few decades just like anything else while the salaries didn't truly follow. Those who have followed the band throughout all those years, bought their records and attended concerts have to spend money on more essential expenses these days, have become too old to attend concerts until late at night and have maybe not the energy to attend festivals with noisy crowds in the summer heat for one hundred bucks or more. Gothic metal is simply not as popular as it was twenty years ago either which means that most younger metal fans might not even be familiar with the genre in general or this band in particular. Crematory isn't the only band to go through these changes and this tendency is nearly impossible to be reverted. Another fact is that most people are traveling more these days than they did twenty years ago, so people want to have their music accessible at all times in a digitalized world to listen to it on their cell phones or computers. Some people don't have the time to listen to full records in their living rooms anymore and will instead listen to new music on the bus. It only make sense that people prefer streaming services, downloads or digital copies over physical products that might only collect dust on a shelf. Nobody wants to buy a product for a hefty price just to see it collect dust like in a museum. This might not be a healthy development for our society but that's just the way it is in general and nobody is going to change the world, especially not with a Facebook comment.

What can really be done to change the game? There are more options than one might think of. Here are a few that came to my mind immediately and I'm far from being an expert of any kind.

First of all, the labels in particular and the music industry in general need to adapt to these changes. Instead of producing music videos or lyrics videos that nobody will watch, short commercials on streaming websites or social media presences will lead to a more efficient marketing strategy.

Instead of giving interviews to print media that become less popular every year, one should cooperate with specialized fan magazines and popular people on social media to get more attention.

Music should become more available digitally for a certain price. Bandcamp would be the best current option for a band to get more popular and get more immediate profit at the same time. Crowdfunding campaigns offering unique gimmicks to fans are a great way to finance projects and records. Sticking with declining labels is less and less essential these days.

Being active on social media such as Facebook and Twitter but also specific forums will make a band more visible.

Offering specific gimmicks will also attract fan attention, such as signed copies for fair prices, an exclusive release with one of the few popular music magazines to promote an upcoming album, or boxed sets like the ones the band has released from their records Klagebilder to Revolution could be some ideas. All releases should include download codes offering high-quality digital versions of the record. If you want to sell physical copies, bonus tracks are mandatory and can be complemented by addition live discs, posters or even shirts.

Touring with a bigger band could also be an interesting option even if it might feel disgraceful for a band that has been around for three decades. Softer German bands associated to the gothic genre such as Unheilig, Rammstein and In Extremo are doing very well financially and opening for these bands would introduce a group like Crematory to younger audiences. It could also be an idea to join forces with similar bands with comparable issues and to have three popular gothic metal bands touring together for reduced costs per member. I'm sure a line-up consisting of Paradise Lost, Moonspell and Crematory would attract much larger audiences than if the bands toured on their own.

Obviously, all these changes need to be introduced and prepared progressively. A clever label or band would have started doing these things more than a decade ago already because the music industry as we knew it was already declining back then and streaming services and download portals were becoming more and more popular. But it's not too late to embrace change and adapt. Instead of being passive-aggressive over it, it would be much more efficient to be proactive and try out something new.

That being said, I will continue attending concerts, buy merchandise and purchase physical versions of my favorite bands' records but this philosophy only applies to a modest minority these days.
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lost_wanderer
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:38 am 
 

1,5 million streams is a lot so it must be frustrating to receive so little money from that. But at the same time, it's a lot of publicity so why almost nobody is willing to attend to the shows? Maybe all their fans are outside of Germany and live too far to attend to them or the music is just not good enough to incite those people who had listen to the songs to buy tickets.
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Gunslinger21
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:36 am 
 

Personally, I wouldn't have used such strong language as he did, but I do understand what he is saying and I agree. I wouldn't get out of bed at 5:30 every morning if I wasn't getting paid to do it, so I wouldn't expect bands to put out high quality albums if they aren't making a few bucks out of it. Why should they? I think he's justified in what he is saying.

Keep it mind if their music was shit, I wouldn't expect anyone to support them. But they're not, they're actually pretty damn good, so. Yeah. They're not coming to my area but if they were I'd probably buy a ticket.

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GTog
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:04 am 
 

Dear Crematory,

If you feel the need to quit, then quit. I won't miss you. There's a ton of metal out there, and a lot of it is better than you.

I'm not saying you're bad. Not at all. Sometimes you're not to my taste, but I do own a couple of your albums (I buy physical CDs whenever possible, mind you). The thing is, I have a finite income. I prioritize. Whenever I go on a shopping spree I have a couple hundred bucks to spend, tops. And I have no trouble, no trouble at all, using it up before I get around to purchasing anything by Crematory.

And no, you don't get credit merely for having been Crematory for a long time. Really? You're not fucking Metallica, where you can shit out whatever every couple of years and still sell a million copies because you're Metallica. You're goddamned Crematory. No one crashes websites scrambling for Crematory tickets. You know how we get Crematory tickets? At the door, because there are always plenty left, and only if nothing good was on TV.

You don't stand out. You haven't in a long time. So rage quit. Best you can hope for is that someone around here will start a "Hey, Remember Crematory?" thread in 5 years. And maybe, just maybe, someone will say Yes.
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BasqueStorm
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:01 am 
 

kluseba wrote:
If you haven't lived under a rock, you have certainly heard of German gothic metal veterans Crematory before. The band has been around since the early nineties and has released thirteen studio albums so far. A fourteenth full length entitled Oblivion is going to be released next month. A few days ago, band leader and drummer Markus Jüllich has released the following statement in English and German on the band's Facebook page:
...

Wow! That sucks but, maybe, they should try harder. :scratch:

And not blame others. :nono:

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Ace_Rimmer
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:20 am 
 

I've read a lot of articles about how Spotify and other streaming services hose the artists but not sure whats the alternative. I buy CD and vinyl but I'm a drying breed. Then you read about venues taking up to half the merch money at shows these days as well and I wonder how non commercial music, and even some of that, will thrive in the future.

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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:56 am 
 

Everyone knows streaming services don't pay anything. Don't put your music up there in that case. No one forced him to give away his music for free.

I've been listening to metal for 30 years and never heard of these guys. What is their best song?
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Evoken
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:34 pm 
 

Temple Of Blood wrote:
Everyone knows streaming services don't pay anything. Don't put your music up there in that case. No one forced him to give away his music for free.

I've been listening to metal for 30 years and never heard of these guys. What is their best song?


They're basically an uptempo gothic metal band with death metal vocals and clean singing (at least on the mid to later albums). I found their early stuff to be pretty generic but they kind of hit a sweet spot around the late 90s where they put out a couple decent albums. Their best album (from what I've heard) was "Believe", it's got the best group of songs and is pretty catchy and memorable. The album Act Seven's first half is pretty good too. I'm not really a big fan of the band but if you're interested in hearing them I'd suggest starting there.

The last thing I heard from them was the Revolution album in 2004 which I thought sucked. More industrial/techno influences and even some Slipknot-ish sounding guitar parts that just reeked of them trying to hop on that bandwagon. I stopped paying attention to them after that.

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TheHellstorm
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:18 am
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:41 pm 
 

YES!!! Please, please, PLEASE dissolve! You've been dragging such a cool band name through shit for decades playing some goth crap only German could love. It is time to put your lace shirt and vampire teeth to wardrobe and grow up.
I appeal in particular to the youth of today: STOP GERMAN GOTH METAL. Do not repeat the mistakes of your 90's frill-shirt-and-mascara wearing forefathers. There are better things in life....

Rest in Piss, crematory.

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rexxz
Where's your band?

Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:45 pm
Posts: 9034
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:01 pm 
 

Temple Of Blood wrote:
Everyone knows streaming services don't pay anything. Don't put your music up there in that case. No one forced him to give away his music for free.



This is quite literally incorrect. I have several projects on streaming sites and can supply you with my stream/payout charts. They most definitely do pay. In fact his band should have gotten anywhere from 4.5-6k USD for the amount of streams he said he got. Someone is collecting the money, and if it ain't them, he should be talking to his label about that.
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thrashinbatman
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:31 pm
Posts: 1011
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:04 pm 
 

First of all, I do somewhat agree with him, but his tone of voice and method to bring the message across is abhorrent. Nothing like yelling at your fans and calling them lazy, right? Jesus Christ. However, it's mostly futile to be complaining about digital and streaming. We're in the middle of the transition into the new model of music consumption, and screaming at people to do it the old-school way is a bit like yelling at the sun for setting. It's pointless and you can't do anything to stop it. Simply put, Spotify, YouTube, and Bandcamp have a better, more convenient model than buying a CD. Like others said, he's honestly lucky that he's getting any money at all off of streaming, compared to the industry 10 years ago when everyone just pirated albums. Rather than attempt to turn back time 20 years to when CD sales were viable, they need to learn how to operate in the new system. Other bands and artists are figuring it out, I'm sure Crematory can do the same.

And to complain about people not buying tickets? That's just lame. There isn't even some alternative that's causing nobody to buy tickets. Simply put, if your band is doing abysmally in terms of attendance, you really need to stop to consider why. People just aren't interested in the name. Maybe you need to limit touring, maybe you need to try to get an opening slot on a bigger band's tour, or maybe you just need to suck it up and deal with the limited attendance.


GTog wrote:


And no, you don't get credit merely for having been Crematory for a long time. Really? You're not fucking Metallica, where you can shit out whatever every couple of years and still sell a million copies because you're Metallica. You're goddamned Crematory. No one crashes websites scrambling for Crematory tickets. You know how we get Crematory tickets? At the door, because there are always plenty left, and only if nothing good was on TV.


This is a really good point as well. Listen, I bought tickets at the door for bands like Amon Amarth, Exodus, Kreator, Sabaton, Demolition Hammer, Overkill, etc. If I don't do presales for these bands, why do Crematory feel entitled to them? GUARANTEED most of this band's fanbase are gonna show up and buy at the door, it isn't like they need to reserve a seat or worry about a sell-out. It's ridiculous.

I understand this guy's frustration and worry, but it isn't wise to attempt to solve it by screaming at your fans for not giving you an acceptable amount of money.

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CloggedUrethra
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2002 4:30 am
Posts: 458
Location: Ontario, Canada
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:29 pm 
 

Hey rexxz, when are you gonna put out a "how to be successful" self-help book for musicians and how much are you gonna charge for it?
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rexxz
Where's your band?

Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:45 pm
Posts: 9034
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:32 pm 
 

It's a huge topic with a lot of nuance. I myself am still learning, but I can say that I feel comfortable where I'm at now compared to when I first started. Before, you couldn't see the light at the end of the tunnel. Now that I know more, I do see the end game.

The popular false dichotomy that one can't be both authentic and genuine to their art but also display good business acumen and economic sense in profiting from their work, needs to be burnt to ash and never seen again. There are definitely ways to make what you love to make and to find the audience that would love to hear it and support it.

I'd personally rather throw up some posts on a blog about what I've learned than write a book, but that's just me.
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I Am the Law
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2003 1:46 pm
Posts: 423
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:23 pm 
 

Attacking your fans is not the way to get them to buy your stuff and see you live. RIP Crematory, nothing of value has been lost. That first demo was solid though.

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DecemberSoul
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:46 am
Posts: 934
Location: Switzerland
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:10 pm 
 

TheHellstorm wrote:
I appeal in particular to the youth of today: STOP GERMAN GOTH METAL. Do not repeat the mistakes of your 90's frill-shirt-and-mascara wearing forefathers. There are better things in life....

Ah, that phrasing brings back memories :) AND it carries a nice message, too. Thumbs up!

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Warty_basaloid
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:32 am
Posts: 366
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:05 pm 
 

It's up to the goth metal fans now if they want more Crematory to cut their lazy asses to.

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Marras
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:21 am
Posts: 72
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:27 pm 
 

I get that it must be a bit frustrating to have 1,5 million streams, but receive only about 3000 dollars from them. But reality check time, if you have been making records for 25 years and haven't lived off from your music at any time during that, it suddenly isn't going to happen.
And buying tickets for the announced shows? I know that Crematory isn't that big band that it sells out all tickets to the shows, even if they came to perform to my city (I actually have couple of their cd's...) I wouldn't buy ticket until about a day before the show.

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rexxz
Where's your band?

Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:45 pm
Posts: 9034
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:30 pm 
 

The stream payout is significantly higher than that for that amount of streams on the most popular platforms, just saying. I suspect their contract isn't that desirable, and is also on them to make right. You only get what you negotiate.
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Zodijackyl
Definitely Proportionate

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 7405
Location: Longmont Potion Castle
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:18 pm 
 

kluseba wrote:
What can really be done to change the game? There are more options than one might think of. Here are a few that came to my mind immediately and I'm far from being an expert of any kind.


You make a lot of good points, but they don't apply to this band. The problem isn't exposure, it's the band.

kluseba wrote:
Touring with a bigger band could also be an interesting option even if it might feel disgraceful for a band that has been around for three decades. Softer German bands associated to the gothic genre such as Unheilig, Rammstein and In Extremo are doing very well financially and opening for these bands would introduce a group like Crematory to younger audiences. It could also be an idea to join forces with similar bands with comparable issues and to have three popular gothic metal bands touring together for reduced costs per member. I'm sure a line-up consisting of Paradise Lost, Moonspell and Crematory would attract much larger audiences than if the bands toured on their own.


Touring with other bands who were popular 15-20 years ago would introduce them to a younger audience? :lol: I'm sure all the young goths are enthralled by this frontman. :-P

Image

Of course every band wants to tour with much bigger bands - to do so, they either need to be a secondary draw (which they obviously aren't) or have a label pushing them, which only happens with promising young bands, not old bands that overstayed their welcome by a decade or two. The reality is that A-list bands of the style like PL and Moonspell have no reason to bring along a band who can't even draw enough people to cover their own touring expenses. Those two would do just as well without Crematory as they would with. I get it, you love the band, but this isn't about industry trickery or exposure - they're on a sizable label - it's just that they're proven that almost nobody wants to see them.

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