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DL
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:30 pm
Posts: 28
Location: Israel
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 8:08 am 
 

In recent months, I have been exposed to the Stoic philosophy. It has been around for around 2 millennia, and its' modern incarnation is readily available through numerous organizations, websites, books and videos. The ancient texts are readily available as well, and much of it resonates with me as helpful and true. I think that many of those principles can help me deal with many issues that have been plaguing me, such as being angry or upset about the evil and stupidity of other people (both in person and not), instead of focusing on my own thoughts and actions. One of the most basic messages of Stoicism is that there is no reason to be upset about anything which is beyond your own control. (Search for quotes by Epictetus, Seneca and Marcus Aurelius to get the flavor).
Does any one here follow Stoic principles? Do you think it is compatible with being a metalhead? (craving externals, such as a record collection, tshirts, and of course riding the raw emotion of the music itself). I tend to think a synthesis is possible - as long as you discard the totality that some metalheads have. Let me know what you think.

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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 5617
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 10:19 am 
 

I'm not very familiar with the philosophy but I did enjoy reading How to be Stoic by Massimo Pigliucci. It definitely taught me a thing or two that I try to remind myself of. I don't see any connection between the stoic philosophy and being a metalhead though.

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BeholdtheNicktopus
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:26 pm
Posts: 464
Location: Chicago
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 2:34 pm 
 

I find the ethical parts of Stoicism to be quite good, but the broader philosophy to be pretty unsatisfactory (its materialism and account of knowledge, for example). As with most ancient philosophy, connecting its way of life to modern consumer culture (of which metal is just one example, and it goes beyond "mere" consumerism, sure, but still...) is spotty. Philosophy in the ancient sense is something you "convert" to. Not sure about modern stoicism, though, which seems rather cringy from what I've seen (making you better integrated into the capitalist economy, among other such goals; kind of like western adaptations of Buddhism, what I've seen kind of misses the whole point).

Just my impressions, but then I'm a Platonist so the Stoics are my ancient enemies! Haha just kidding.
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Black Earth
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat May 18, 2019 1:21 am
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 4:21 pm 
 

DL, I have sent you a PM.
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"What manifests from an act of freedom that is simple in it constitute, complex in its expression, wholistic in its representation, and singular in its conviction? Are you witnessing and experiencing essences?"

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DL
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:30 pm
Posts: 28
Location: Israel
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 4:54 am 
 

BeholdtheNicktopus wrote:
I find the ethical parts of Stoicism to be quite good, but the broader philosophy to be pretty unsatisfactory (its materialism and account of knowledge, for example). As with most ancient philosophy, connecting its way of life to modern consumer culture (of which metal is just one example, and it goes beyond "mere" consumerism, sure, but still...) is spotty. Philosophy in the ancient sense is something you "convert" to. Not sure about modern stoicism, though, which seems rather cringy from what I've seen (making you better integrated into the capitalist economy, among other such goals; kind of like western adaptations of Buddhism, what I've seen kind of misses the whole point).

Just my impressions, but then I'm a Platonist so the Stoics are my ancient enemies! Haha just kidding.


I have no problem with materialism - for me the Universe is no less wondrous even if it's "all atoms".
I wouldn't say modern Stoicism necessarily integrates you into capitalist society, with working on lessening your craving for externals. You might say one of the messages is "doing your job well" - but this might be your part as an artist, as a friend, as someone who's talent is not in one of the money making professions which "move the market"; virtue also demands to act upon your duty when you face injustice. (Though I don't see "capitalist society" as an evil in itself - only parts of it).
I always thought that you should not look for all the answers in one place of course, so at the least, I can use Stoic principles to be less troubled with externals, and more focused on the inside. When you grow, you make a synthesis for yourself, and don't blindly follow a specific course (the same should be true with politics as well). And metal is just one part of me, though an important one.

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InnesI
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:19 pm
Posts: 1288
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 4:52 am 
 

I don't know about modern Stoicism. I haven't read much about it except from an article here or there but I get the feeling its a fad an a modernization in the words worst meaning. However I love Marcus Aurelius Meditations. It is one of my favourite books ever. Its short but the points it makes are deep and it leaves room for interpretation and though. I find it having a heroic tone which is attractive but also a down to earth view of reality. And then I was surprised at how much in common Aurelius had metaphysically with Daoism in the way he describes the world as change but also has concepts akin to wu-wei. Sometimes I'm quite nerdy as well and there are so many translations of The Meditations which all bring out a different feel to the text. The only one I've read cover to cover is Maxwell Stanisforths version and I love it!

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caspian
Wanderer of the Wastes

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:29 pm
Posts: 6309
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 11:14 am 
 

Cynicism is a way more entertaining/a better read/less awfully self important branch of greek big thonk. Plus it has Diogenes who's a way funnier fella than Aurelius and co
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Barenulbo
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:12 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Turkey
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:08 pm 
 

The big problem with stoicism is that they try to deny and suppress the desires and pains of the flesh. Acting as if you were only a rational mind with no feelings wouldn't work for most of the people. It brings us to a neurotic state of being since we deny our very core and try to be ''stoic''. Stoic philosophy died out because it was applicable for the %1 elite who had no bodily worries and all they had to do was to rule over lesser men.

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