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traxan
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:19 pm 
 

Apparently bookers don't like bands they can't easily pigeonhole

https://www.facebook.com/oceansofslumbe ... 5892487011

5 weeks is enough time to contemplate many things. Where do we go from here? Do we go from here?

The tour was a success! Insomnium were a great band, group of people, and a great fit for a band like us. A band (Oceans of Slumber) that is hard to book in the states apparently. So thank you so much for taking us on and letting us do what we do. Eternal metal to you and hope to see you again soon!

And on to the not so fun. A constant blur of “not interested in”, “hard to categorize”, and “they’re just not into what you’re doing because..” is our normal curtain call in the business of American metal. Something a bit disheartening for sure and something we get to hear pretty often. But we press on. Or do we? We will see what the rest of our year is presented with.

Our next show is ProgPower and we plan to meet that head on with a full live band of what we can do. No backing tracks. Two bass players (Keegan an keyboardist Mat), three synth players (Mat, Anthony, and Dobber), a live backing choir where needed, and a full blown “leave it all on stage” attitude and performance.

For the folks that have seen us recently, you know what we mean by that. Fierce and intense doesn’t come easy and definitely leaves room to burn up. And we like that. Keeps things interesting.

Maybe an EP later this year if things feel right and then maybe some quiet time. We don’t know just yet. Feelings are a bit strong now and things are most definitely sensitive to the touch.

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Pitiless Wanderer
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:32 pm 
 

hmm...

I saw them open for Insomnium a few weeks ago. I have their record and have listened to it, so I was familiar with them before they came on stage. That being said, while I do support the underground scene totally and appreciate the effort and commitment it takes to "make it" (even a little bit) in the metal scene, I must say that their live show was just boring. The music just didn't go anywhere, the band seemed lifeless, and they were an odd act to open for a melodic death metal band in my opinion. It wasn't the worst performance I've seen by any means, but their music just doesn't really stand out to me. Average stuff. That's just my .02 though. I wish them the best in future endeavors.

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Spiner202
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:52 pm 
 

I don't really enjoy these guys at all. Saw them on the Evergrey/Voyager/Borealis tour a few years back and hated it. Saw them on the Insomnium tour last week and didn't really like it there either. I'm kinda disappointed they're taking a spot on ProgPower, but maybe they'll be better at that show.

Edit: As I re-read the statement, I'm not sure what they're complaining about. They just finished a tour with a band that sounds nothing like them that they're calling a success. Bands don't normally finish a North America tour, and then immediately have another one lined up. They'll usually record something else or at least go to Europe or another territory.
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thesilentenigma
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:51 pm 
 

traxan wrote:
Two bass players (Keegan an keyboardist Mat), three synth players (Mat, Anthony, and Dobber), a live backing choir where needed, and a full blown “leave it all on stage” attitude and performance.


Found the problem.
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traxan
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:06 pm 
 

But those are conclusions you are coming to after seeing them. I understand that. But from what they are saying, people are pre-judging them without really hearing them.

I want them to succeed if only because they are so unique. But I understand acquired tastes.

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Spiner202
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Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 3:32 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:59 pm 
 

traxan wrote:
But those are conclusions you are coming to after seeing them. I understand that. But from what they are saying, people are pre-judging them without really hearing them.

I want them to succeed if only because they are so unique. But I understand acquired tastes.

I think it's fair to say that people doing the booking have heard the band. They need to know which bands would fit their package.

It also raises the question of why doesn't Oceans of Slumber do a headliner run? Sometimes you have to build your audience by touring over and over again and playing to a few more people each time.
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Xenophon
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:05 pm 
 

Eh, there are tons of times where the inclusion of a specific band on a lineup has had me scratching my head. And then there are bands like Deafheaven who bring in anything and everything for supporting acts. I don't know how the business goes or anything, but I also listened to their 2016 album and didn't think it was anything terribly unusual (from the posts in this thread I guess their new album is different?). Rejection is always frustrating though when it comes to creative endeavors.

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Frank Booth
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:33 pm 
 

The problem is that yes, a lot of American audiences just don't take to that style. The fact of the matter is that they're a gothic prog band with prominent death metal influences plus a wide variety of other, more eclectic styles, and they employ harsh vocals in a way that isn't really "good cop, bad cop" ala Epica and are generally less bombastic and easily accessible. Goth acts that aren't Nightwish, Epica, Cradle of Filth, or Dimmu Borgir are hard sells here in the US and Oceans is no different. I did catch them at one of the Insomnium shows and the audience seemed to enjoy their set and there was a noticeably bigger presence at their merch table after the set, but again, an eclectic goth/prog band with brutal death/TXDM elements that is fronted by a black female singer who isn't a Tarja Turunen/Simone Simons/Cristina Scabbia soundalike is one of those things that is going to be niche in the US and is either going to plateau early or manage to tap into that mainstream prog or goth audience and shoot skywards, with very little in-between.

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traxan
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:19 am 
 

The cynic in me thinks that if Cammie was hot, they would be a lot more popular. Look at Landmine Marathon. They were all people could talk about back when they had the cute nerdy librarian vocalist (I refuse to call her a singer). Then she quit and they replaced her with a mannish-looking chick and interest dried up. It's like no one noticed the band made tuneless noise that sounded like a 747 engine on takeoff as long as they had the cute vocalist.

I suspect Dobber would disagree with me. :) (word is the two are a couple)

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FirebathDan
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:52 am 
 

Frank Booth wrote:
The problem is that yes, a lot of American audiences just don't take to that style. The fact of the matter is that they're a gothic prog band with prominent death metal influences plus a wide variety of other, more eclectic styles, and they employ harsh vocals in a way that isn't really "good cop, bad cop" ala Epica and are generally less bombastic and easily accessible. Goth acts that aren't Nightwish, Epica, Cradle of Filth, or Dimmu Borgir are hard sells here in the US and Oceans is no different. I did catch them at one of the Insomnium shows and the audience seemed to enjoy their set and there was a noticeably bigger presence at their merch table after the set, but again, an eclectic goth/prog band with brutal death/TXDM elements that is fronted by a black female singer who isn't a Tarja Turunen/Simone Simons/Cristina Scabbia soundalike is one of those things that is going to be niche in the US and is either going to plateau early or manage to tap into that mainstream prog or goth audience and shoot skywards, with very little in-between.


Excellent summation.

This band's music is quite challenging in a lot of ways, and not necessarily in the obvious ways music can be challenging. But it's also very accessible in a lot of ways as well. In that sense, they are sort of an island unto themselves.

It's truly unfortunate, as the music is rewarding with repeat listens, but I suppose in the live context, you only get one shot to grab an unfamiliar audience.
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Turner
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:09 am 
 

I listened to that band to see what the "hard ot get into" type comments were about.... and problem is that stuff is nerd fodder. Gigs don't have to be all middle fingers and beer-soaked jean jackets but fucking hell I can see how any promoter who wasn't a complete neckbeard would have second thoughts....

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Frank Booth
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:13 am 
 

It really isn't that neckbeardy. It lacks the bombast and spectacle of popular goth acts and the flashiness and instrumental acrobatics of most popular prog acts. If it WAS neckbeardy, it would honestly be an easier sell.

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traxan
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:57 am 
 

Yeah, subtlety never works. Just ask Pink Floyd.

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Pitiless Wanderer
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Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:34 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:57 am 
 

Spiner202 wrote:
traxan wrote:
But those are conclusions you are coming to after seeing them. I understand that. But from what they are saying, people are pre-judging them without really hearing them.

I want them to succeed if only because they are so unique. But I understand acquired tastes.

I think it's fair to say that people doing the booking have heard the band. They need to know which bands would fit their package.

It also raises the question of why doesn't Oceans of Slumber do a headliner run? Sometimes you have to build your audience by touring over and over again and playing to a few more people each time.


Dude, I remember you from the Nevermore forums at UM.com...you posted their forever (like I did) so I'm gonna guess you've been around way too long to honestly think that OoS are "unique." I fail to see anything different, interesting or unique about this band. I'll admit I do like the singer's voice though. She's good!

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Frank Booth
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:08 am 
 

traxan wrote:
Yeah, subtlety never works. Just ask Pink Floyd.

Different time. They were right in line with the general zeitgeist of the 70s. Like I said, Oceans will either never attract the right audience and will hit a brick wall early on and break up, or they'll get put on a tour with something like Cradle of Filth or Opeth and finally break through to a more mainstream audience and then travel upwards from there. Niche acts can and do pull off miracles, but the deck is stacked against them and Oceans in particular.

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Spiner202
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Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 3:32 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:13 am 
 

Pitiless Wanderer wrote:
Spiner202 wrote:
I think it's fair to say that people doing the booking have heard the band. They need to know which bands would fit their package.

It also raises the question of why doesn't Oceans of Slumber do a headliner run? Sometimes you have to build your audience by touring over and over again and playing to a few more people each time.


Dude, I remember you from the Nevermore forums at UM.com...you posted their forever (like I did) so I'm gonna guess you've been around way too long to honestly think that OoS are "unique." I fail to see anything different, interesting or unique about this band. I'll admit I do like the singer's voice though. She's good!

You must be thinking of someone else - I have been on UM, but definitely not in the Nevermore forums. I've got one Nevermore album that I only occasionally spin.

If anything, they only sound unique to me because I never listen to their style of music. If there are tons of bands sounding like them, they should have no problem getting on a tour package; they just might need to be more patient than being less than a week removed from their last tour.

Edit: it just occurred to me that you were probably speaking to Traxan. In any case, I'll use this post to reiterate that I think OoS is quite uninteresting.
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Abominatrix
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:00 pm 
 

Well, this thread has got me interested enough to at least check out the band, even without an interest in "gothic metal", so taht's something. From what you folks say, they sound unique and taht's at least interesting.

But i also don't really understand their negativity. Is it directed inwards or outwards? It's damn hard to tour at the best of times. Plenty of good bands meet with cold receptions some nights. Maybe people do have a hard time getting into them. Wouldn't be the first time.
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Frank Booth
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:43 pm 
 

Abominatrix wrote:
Well, this thread has got me interested enough to at least check out the band, even without an interest in "gothic metal", so taht's something. From what you folks say, they sound unique and taht's at least interesting.

But i also don't really understand their negativity. Is it directed inwards or outwards? It's damn hard to tour at the best of times. Plenty of good bands meet with cold receptions some nights. Maybe people do have a hard time getting into them. Wouldn't be the first time.

They're an American band playing a style that is generally a far easier sell in Europe, and they're at the point in their career where they're finally getting noticed and gaining some momentum, but are having some difficulty advancing because touring in Europe is expensive, especially when you're a low-level band, but people just don't know what to do with them back home.

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FirebathDan
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:16 pm 
 

Abominatrix wrote:
Well, this thread has got me interested enough to at least check out the band, even without an interest in "gothic metal", so taht's something. From what you folks say, they sound unique and taht's at least interesting.


I'd personally start with Winter. It's the better of the two with Cammie on vocals, or at least the one I prefer.

Quote:
But i also don't really understand their negativity. Is it directed inwards or outwards? It's damn hard to tour at the best of times. Plenty of good bands meet with cold receptions some nights. Maybe people do have a hard time getting into them. Wouldn't be the first time.


I don't think they're talking about audience reception. I read it more along the lines of promoters and/or booking agents won't touch them because their eccentricity is seen as a hard sell.
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traxan
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:27 pm 
 

Spiner202 wrote:
Edit: it just occurred to me that you were probably speaking to Traxan. In any case, I'll use this post to reiterate that I think OoS is quite uninteresting.


Yeah he was. I was on the Nevermore board up until about 6 months before Warrel's death. I finally gave up because it was basically a circle jerk of the same 4-5 people posting and even Warrel had stopped coming around. We knew a Nevermore reunion would never happen so peeople gave up, along with UM dying out.

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Pitiless Wanderer
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:45 pm 
 

Quote:
You must be thinking of someone else - I have been on UM, but definitely not in the Nevermore forums. I've got one Nevermore album that I only occasionally spin.


sorry, thought i was quoting Traxan. my bad.

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Wilytank
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:39 pm 
 

So I actually decided it was most useful to check out their setlist to see what they actually played and listen to the studio versions to see if they're the kind of songs that would translate well in the live stage. So my judgement is based on this assuming it's accurate:

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/oceans-o ... af8d4.html

And really their only real weakness is that their songs don't need to be 9 or so minutes long. They sound like a mashup of The Gathering and ISIS, but lack the distinct charms that either of those bands had. So maybe throw me in with the "band is boring" crowd. It's not hard to picture this in a live setup compared to some stuff I've heard (such as Dodheimsgard's A Umbra Omega album, which I love in the studio but really wouldn't transition well live).

traxan wrote:
Our next show is ProgPower and we plan to meet that head on with a full live band of what we can do. No backing tracks. Two bass players (Keegan an keyboardist Mat), three synth players (Mat, Anthony, and Dobber), a live backing choir where needed, and a full blown “leave it all on stage” attitude and performance.


Is all this shit really necessary though? Looking at their songwriting credits, only the Winter album really has that many roles used. Or are they just going to restrict their set to that album?
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Last edited by Wilytank on Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Zodijackyl
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:45 pm 
 

Seems like the band has earned recognition and success fairly quickly. Their first album wasn't very good and had a vocalist with no charisma, and shortly after getting a good singer in 2014, they got signed to Century Media. Four years later, they have two albums, a few tours under their belt, and just moved up to the direct support slot on a month+ national tour.

Spiner202 wrote:
I'm not sure what they're complaining about. They just finished a tour with a band that sounds nothing like them that they're calling a success. Bands don't normally finish a North America tour, and then immediately have another one lined up. They'll usually record something else or at least go to Europe or another territory.


This is true, and the bands that do become perennial openers also tend to be less musically ambitious, from good-ol-reliable Goatwhore touring out of a van in their 40s doing the same thing they've been doing for a decade, to trend-hoppers like every C-list metalcore/melodeath band of the 00s, to bands like Blackguard who seemed to only be there to make the headliners look better to anyone with taste, and to appease those without it. It seems like Oceans of Slumber are achieving by being a somewhat unique band and *not* a band that is interchangeable with ten others like most low-level bands on a bigger label like CM.

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pfk505
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:04 pm 
 

Saw them on the tour.. they're competent musicians (especially the drummer) but their show was really just boring. They were totally outclassed even by the local openers (Gross Misconduct). Bad fit for Insominum and I was honestly really disappointed when I heard they were going to be the only biggish name touring with them.

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conquer__all
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:33 pm 
 

Very boring. There is nothing about their music that is memorable or catchy. They mix too many genres and really don’t have their own sound. My opinion.
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Bates
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:56 pm 
 

I enjoyed them with Insomnium, but they approach mashing together prog, doom, and death in vastly different ways. Sound was awful, all I could hear was bass, drums, vocals and leads. Guitar and keyboard parts were lost in the wash. Drummer could do some pretty mean double-bass.

I can definitely see where they end up being somewhat too "weird" for the US bigger venues, while not being in a category that has a strong underground.
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Twisted_Psychology
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:40 am 
 

I really like Oceans of Slumber, especially their newest album, but they're definitely a niche band and one that takes multiple listens to really get a feel for. Personally, I think they're about due to ditch their more extreme influences so touring with death metal bands really isn't going to do them any favors.
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Frank Booth
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:54 am 
 

Twisted_Psychology wrote:
I really like Oceans of Slumber, especially their newest album, but they're definitely a niche band and one that takes multiple listens to really get a feel for. Personally, I think they're about due to ditch their more extreme influences so touring with death metal bands really isn't going to do them any favors.

Their more Southern feel (the TXDM/brutal death elements plus the blues, gospel, Southern rock, and country elements) is one of their other main calling cards and is one of the things that they're definitely NOT giving up, because they don't want to turn into just another lame, cookie-cutter CM/Napalm goth band or an Opeth clone.

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traxan
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:13 am 
 

Well, things aren't going so good. They've been without a keyboardist for a while and using a temp, Anthony (the Hispanic guitarist) left a few months ago, and now Sean, the short-haired guitarist who did the harsh vox has also quit due to a regular job no longer allowing him to tour. The band is basically vocalist Cammie, drummer Dobber, and bassist Keegan. But they say they are auditioning replacements.

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Frank Booth
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:34 am 
 

As long as Dobber wants to keep it going, it'll keep going, but I think that none of them were really prepared to get the opportunities that they did. Dobber. Anthony, Sean, and Keegan have all been playing together in bands for years, but virtually all of those bands have been underground acts that mostly just play regional shows and maybe do a short run every once in a blue moon. Insect Warfare was, to the best of my knowledge, the only band that any of them were in prior to this that got any sort of major national and international attention, and Oceans of Slumber wound up going further than any of them imagined it would. It's reasonable for at least one person whose musical life was built around the underground to have to bail when those commitments wind up taking them to an unavoidable crossroads.

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Bingewolf
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:56 pm 
 

In response to the OP, don't think this has anything to do with being able to "pigeon hole" to book them...

The fact is, the band hasn't really broken in the States. Not to say that they don't have fans, but they don't have a big fan base. On top of that, they want to do a very elaborate (i.e. expensive) show. That's going to be hard to do for full scale tours. They just had a great spot as support to Insomnium that allowed them to do a full national run. However, being a small band and trying to do expensive and extensive touring is a tall order. Small bands that tour on the cheap find it hard to book a full headlining run.

Their post, to me, sounds like sour grapes honestly... You just came home from a national tour and you're complaining that it's hard to tour? Many bands would kill to be in that position...

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Spiner202
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:45 pm 
 

Since this post got bumped and I've seen them since my last post, I'll reiterate that these guys are really boring. They were the only genuinely boring band at ProgPower. I didn't know the vocalist doing the harsh vocals quit, but there's even less of a reason to see them. It's partly that their music is bad, and partly that they have 0 stage presence.
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